2016 DB Prospect Thread

[GrimCoconut]

there are more problems with Brown than just his weight. He put on like 5lbs this offseason and didn't appear to lose any speed in the preseason at all. Hargreaves would only need to put on maximum 10lbs and he'd be fine, with a 5'11" frame at 190 that shouldn't be too hard to do. In fact I'd be fine if he stayed at 190 and only gained 5, most corners his size in the league hover around 200 anyway, its not a huge difference, people are acting like the guy is weighing in at 170...

First of all, relax. I only said his size concerns me. It does, and I think that's vindicated. I don't care what the guy's weight is listed as on a website, but he is a small CB with little muscular definition or mass. You can say that he weighs similar to other CB, but Jimmy, Peterson, and other CB looked larger than him coming out of college. 

 

I'd still take the guy, but I am legitimately concerned regarding his size. He isn't a big CB at all. Still, his technique is excellent and perhaps he could help some of our young DBs along here. 

[Maryland]

With all the interest in Hargreaves thought it should be known he is going up against LSU and Dural tomorrow in prime time. As I have said before about LSU there passing game and QB is questionable but still a great matchup of rope teams and players.

Also as grim stated biggest thing really is to win division. Steelers and cincy have consistent weapons at WR we at some point will need to match up with this. On that note our division is loaded with some talented defensive lines on every team so we cannot afford to let our oline diminish either

It's a shame Ole Miss didn't give us the Treadwell/Hargreaves match-up we wanted :/ Hopefully they match up. 

 

And I'm on board with you /w Hargreaves. There will never be a perfect CB, and there will always be something to nitpick. You have bigger CBs who match up against bigger physical WRs (Sherman) and smaller CBs who match up against smaller, faster WRs (Grimes). It's the right tool for the right job. Hargreaves seems to be perfect for covering quicker receivers (like Brown). Hargreaves just doesn't allow separation in press, and he breaks on the ball quick in off-coverage. I even love how he steps up to make tackles in the run game. 

 

I understand why some hold FS as a bigger need than CB--I don't disagree--but having two elite CBs who can man-up like Jimmy and theoretically Hargreaves would allow you to run reckless man blitzes like Bowles/Rex/Pagano etc. I mean, we'd have to hire a DC who does that sort of thing, but having two great man CBs would help any DC, even Pees if he's still here. (It just occurred to me how awesome it'd be to get Teryl Austin at DC /w Hargreaves/Jimmy at CB. Firing Pees and bringing Austin back after Caldwell and Co. get fired would be sweeeet)

 

Of course, I doubt we'll be picking high enough for either one, so we're all just dreaming for now 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Maryland

[Cillmatic]

Ramsey's played a great game today. He's our guy. One Scout called him the best DB prospect in 5 years.

[mc_red23]

I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to college football but in terms of quality in comparison to other DB's in college, how good is Eddie Jackson for Alabama? 

[GrimCoconut]

Ramsey's played a great game today. He's our guy. One Scout called him the best DB prospect in 5 years.

Yeah, he played a great game. I still love the guy, although I think he's a bit like Devin McCourty where he's a better safety than CB. Not that I have any problem taking a safety high.

I'm not sold on anyone we have on this team for safety. Hill is great but even he's struggled lately, but I don't think he's really the problem.

Edited October 17, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[ravefan52]

I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to college football but in terms of quality in comparison to other DB's in college, how good is Eddie Jackson for Alabama?

Never really watched Jackson much, but he is having a great game today

[mc_red23]

Never really watched Jackson much, but he is having a great game today

He's had a few good games recently but he's been on another level today. 

[GrimCoconut]

Hargreaves had a very good game so far. I liked what I saw from him. He gave up a TD, but he's made a big impact in this game and it shows. Strangely, he isn't on Dural at all, but it seems like he's strictly playing RCB and not LCB. That works for me since Jimmy seems to play a lot at LCB, lol. 

[52520Andrew]

My biggest concern with Hargreaves in the past frame wise was just how skinny his ankles were. They seem to be bigger this year though which is good as they would have been hurt all the time in the pros.

[GrimCoconut]

My biggest concern with Hargreaves in the past frame wise was just how skinny his ankles were. They seem to be bigger this year though which is good as they would have been hurt all the time in the pros.

I'm not seeing any issues with him, though. I have to be fair. He's playing strong even at his weight. The guy just plays really, really well and knows how to use his body. It's impressive and refreshing. He looks pretty smart out there, too. I saw him make adjustments and he's clearly the leader of the defense and he's a CB. 

[52520Andrew]

I'm not seeing any issues with him, though. I have to be fair. He's playing strong even at his weight. The guy just plays really, really well and knows how to use his body. It's impressive and refreshing. He looks pretty smart out there, too. I saw him make adjustments and he's clearly the leader of the defense and he's a CB.

Yeah he looks fine now is my point, last year and the year before those ankles were really thin. Weird thing to take away from a guy but yeah lol

[rmw10]

Yeah Hargreaves love!  That's my guy this year.  I've mentioned quite a few times that I love how polished he is at such a difficult position.  The guy doesn't have many weaknesses.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah Hargreaves love!  That's my guy this year.  I've mentioned quite a few times that I love how polished he is at such a difficult position.  The guy doesn't have many weaknesses.

Dream draft for me is Hargreaves in the first and Nassib in the second. CB & pass rusher should be solved right there. 

[Maryland]

Hargreaves had a very good game so far. I liked what I saw from him. He gave up a TD, but he's made a big impact in this game and it shows. Strangely, he isn't on Dural at all, but it seems like he's strictly playing RCB and not LCB. That works for me since Jimmy seems to play a lot at LCB, lol. 

Even on that TD he forced a good throw. Was a lot closer than a lot of CBs would be on a flea-flicker. Shame we didn't get to see the Dural matchup. (Dural looked good today too). 

 

Loved how he forced that fumble on Fournette too. Kid is a baller. 

[BmoreBird22]

For what it's worth, Matt Miller talked to a regional scout that said teams will have concerns over the size of Hargreaves because of how enamored the league has become with size at the CB position, but teams would have to be dumb on a whole new level to let him slip out of the top five.

[Robbyrobbass]

Let's try this agaIn. I'll just say this first, Jalen Ramsey is the best DB in the draft. We need this guy.

naw its the Florida kid #1 he is going to be a shutdown he plays bigger than 5'11 Edited October 18, 2015 by Robbyrobbass

[GrimCoconut]

For what it's worth, Matt Miller talked to a regional scout that said teams will have concerns over the size of Hargreaves because of how enamored the league has become with size at the CB position, but teams would have to be dumb on a whole new level to let him slip out of the top five.

Fine by me! Let him slide to us, wherever we may pick!

[GrimCoconut]

Even on that TD he forced a good throw. Was a lot closer than a lot of CBs would be on a flea-flicker. Shame we didn't get to see the Dural matchup. (Dural looked good today too).

Loved how he forced that fumble on Fournette too. Kid is a baller.

Yeah, I really hoped to see more of Dural on Hargreaves but I can't fault Cameron for putting Dural in a better matchup. Hargreaves might be the safest defensive pick imo. I really like Bosa, but there's a little bust factor there. I think Vernon is a safer pick for us. I'm going to cling to hope here that we end up with Hargreaves.

[BmoreBird22]

Fine by me! Let him slide to us, wherever we may pick!

Give me the small technician over a big, strong corner that can't cover, like Brandon Browner, any day

[JoeyFlex5]

Lots of Hargreaves love, you guys really think he's a better player than Ramsey? I personally think Ramsey is head and shoulders above Hargreaves, is the best "leader" in this draft, and he just happens to be at our worst position which also happens to be a position where it is nearly impossible to find a true elite talent.. Talent and value I believe Ramsey is better

[rmw10]

Lots of Hargreaves love, you guys really think he's a better player than Ramsey? I personally think Ramsey is head and shoulders above Hargreaves, is the best "leader" in this draft, and he just happens to be at our worst position which also happens to be a position where it is nearly impossible to find a true elite talent.. Talent and value I believe Ramsey is better

I like Hargreaves better as a pure CB, but I like Ramsey at FS. I think Hargreaves' technical skills give him a very high floor, but also a very high ceiling. I'm not sold on Ramsey as a CB just yet.

[GrimCoconut]

Lots of Hargreaves love, you guys really think he's a better player than Ramsey? I personally think Ramsey is head and shoulders above Hargreaves, is the best "leader" in this draft, and he just happens to be at our worst position which also happens to be a position where it is nearly impossible to find a true elite talent.. Talent and value I believe Ramsey is better

I think both are really talented. The only thing I have against Ramsey atm is I question his maturity to an extent. Sometimes he gets undisciplined and has a bad attitude out there. That's a big concern for me with our penchant lately for penalties. We need a FS who can lead the team, one who can get INT, but also one who can, you know, not blow the game because of a bad attitude or something. There's a fine line between being passionate and a leader and being a bad sport. He walks the line sometimes. 

 

Hargreaves, well, he's different and he plays aggressive, he shows a lot of leadership skills, and on top of it, he's an amazing technician and knows how to play this game. He understands football. He is a very, very good player. 

[Maryland]

Lots of Hargreaves love, you guys really think he's a better player than Ramsey? I personally think Ramsey is head and shoulders above Hargreaves, is the best "leader" in this draft, and he just happens to be at our worst position which also happens to be a position where it is nearly impossible to find a true elite talent.. Talent and value I believe Ramsey is better

I actually read good things about Hargreaves as a team leader and as a person off the field from Charlie Campbell.

[JoeyFlex5]

I like Hargreaves better as a pure CB, but I like Ramsey at FS. I think Hargreaves' technical skills give him a very high floor, but also a very high ceiling. I'm not sold on Ramsey as a CB just yet.

i never looked at Ramsey as a CB for one second, I didn't know any of us were either lol

I think both are really talented. The only thing I have against Ramsey atm is I question his maturity to an extent. Sometimes he gets undisciplined and has a bad attitude out there. That's a big concern for me with our penchant lately for penalties. We need a FS who can lead the team, one who can get INT, but also one who can, you know, not blow the game because of a bad attitude or something. There's a fine line between being passionate and a leader and being a bad sport. He walks the line sometimes. 

 

Hargreaves, well, he's different and he plays aggressive, he shows a lot of leadership skills, and on top of it, he's an amazing technician and knows how to play this game. He understands football. He is a very, very good player.

I actually read good things about Hargreaves as a team leader and as a person off the field from Charlie Campbell.

I'm not putting down Hargreaves at all, I like Hargreaves quite a bit, I just feel that he is on a tier below Stanley, bosa, Ramsey, and nkemdiche

[GrimCoconut]

i never looked at Ramsey as a CB for one second, I didn't know any of us were either lol

I'm not putting down Hargreaves at all, I like Hargreaves quite a bit, I just feel that he is on a tier below Stanley, bosa, Ramsey, and nkemdiche

What makes you say this? I couldn't disagree with you more. Hargreaves is a very skilled CB. His back pedal is great, he knows how to use his hands to fight, he can muscle around guys bigger than himself, and he has great recovery speed. Granted, I haven't watched every game of his, but this guy is the truth as far as I've seen this year.

He is also effective in any coverage, which is great. He and Jimmy would make each other better and could mask a bad safety. I've also seen him make adjustments in the secondary and communicate with his team mates. This guy has it all.

Edited October 19, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[JoeyFlex5]

What makes you say this? I couldn't disagree with you more. Hargreaves is a very skilled CB. His back pedal is great, he knows how to use his hands to fight, he can muscle around guys bigger than himself, and he has great recovery speed. Granted, I haven't watched every game of his, but this guy is the truth as far as I've seen this year.

He is also effective in any coverage, which is great. He and Jimmy would make each other better and could mask a bad safety. I've also seen him make adjustments in the secondary and communicate with his team mates. This guy has it all.

i agree, i think very highly of hargreaves, but i think more highly of ramsey because a FS of his caliber is RARE, matter of fact, a FS half as good as a guy like ramsey is rare, and when you have a FS who is that special, i just think it can do much more for a defense than a cb, i just find it difficult to pass up such a talent at a position where it is so difficult to find quality play. without a good safety, you need a strong pass rush and 3 very good corners, but with a truly elite free safety you can have average play from the rest of the secondary and you can still function at a high level, the threat of an elite free safety lurking the back end makes the entire offense play jittery and cautious, an elite cb takes one player out of the equation. we also have seen jimmy play at an elite level, and i think he isnt 100% recovered from his injury, if he returns to form then having a FS of ramseys caliber will tie our defense together quite well, it will do more than mask deficiencies at cb, it will make a qb approach the game differently and play to our advantages, it will make qb's throw exactly where we want them to, good cb's lead to coverage sacks, good safeties lead to turnovers. thats just a generalization of how i see it.

 

once again, i like hargreaves, im just enamored with the first truly elite looking safety prospect we have seen since eric berry and earl thomas, and it couldnt come at a better time for us with how desperately we need quality play on the back end.

Edited October 19, 2015 by JoeyFlex5

[GrimCoconut]

i agree, i think very highly of hargreaves, but i think more highly of ramsey because a FS of his caliber is RARE, matter of fact, a FS half as good as a guy like ramsey is rare, and when you have a FS who is that special, i just think it can do much more for a defense than a cb, i just find it difficult to pass up such a talent at a position where it is so difficult to find quality play. without a good safety, you need a strong pass rush and 3 very good corners, but with a truly elite free safety you can have average play from the rest of the secondary and you can still function at a high level, the threat of an elite free safety lurking the back end makes the entire offense play jittery and cautious, an elite cb takes one player out of the equation. we also have seen jimmy play at an elite level, and i think he isnt 100% recovered from his injury, if he returns to form then having a FS of ramseys caliber will tie our defense together quite well, it will do more than mask deficiencies at cb, it will make a qb approach the game differently and play to our advantages, it will make qb's throw exactly where we want them to, good cb's lead to coverage sacks, good safeties lead to turnovers. thats just a generalization of how i see it.

 

once again, i like hargreaves, im just enamored with the first truly elite looking safety prospect we have seen since eric berry and earl thomas, and it couldnt come at a better time for us with how desperately we need quality play on the back end.

Lol, man, you're preaching to the converted here. I've pound the table for years (literally 2 years now) for an elite FS for this team and still find myself hoping Brooks, Elam, Trawick, Hill, Lewis, etc. amount to that guy. I'm still left asking for an elite FS. I know how good a FS is and how important one is to the defense. I've been very vocal about that for years now. 

 

The only thing is, why pass on a talent like Hargreaves for Ramsey? It's a tough call, no question, but I just don't know about it, man. Hargreaves is probably the best CB I've seen since Revis. I'm not kidding. He's got the making of a truly special player. I really like Ramsey a lot, but I can't quite say the same about him. Maybe my opinion is just skewed lately since he's playing CB. I'll go back and watch him play FS, but right now, I'm very conflicted. 

 

I wouldn't be upset either way if we got Ramsey or Hargreaves, honestly. 

[martinman89]

I recently had the chance to look up potential top 10 picks for the upcoming draft as well as a few mock drafts. I see a lot of people bring up Joey Bosa (DE), Vernon Hargreaves III (CB), Jalen Ramsey (DB/CB), Lenoard Floyd (OLB/DE) and Robert Nkempdiche (DT). In my opinon, its way too early to determine our draft pick and potential player. If I had to choose, Id go with Jalen Ramsey or Leonard Floyd. Ramsey can play both CB and Safety. His size is also a plus at 6'1/6'2. Hargreaves may be the better corner but his lack of size (5'10/5'11) is not ideal for a top 10 pick in my opinion. He reminds me of Webb and Elam who was also from Florida. Joey Bosa is a beast and reminds me of JJ Watt but Im pretty sure he'll be long gone before we pick. Nkemdiche looks just as good as Bosa in my opinion and I'd pick him over Bosa. Floyd, however, can play both DE and OLB and is more logical to go to us in a late top 10 pick. He is a pure pass rusher at 6'4. He is a little slim but he is quick, and lengthy. Imagine when he puts on some NFL OLB weight. Remind you of someone? (Suggs). The combine will tell us more than a visual analysis. Go Ravens! 

 

Joey Bosa 

 

Leonard Floyd

 

Jalen Ramsey

 

Robert Nkempdiche

 

Vernon Hargreaves III

[Cillmatic]

Lol, man, you're preaching to the converted here. I've pound the table for years (literally 2 years now) for an elite FS for this team and still find myself hoping Brooks, Elam, Trawick, Hill, Lewis, etc. amount to that guy. I'm still left asking for an elite FS. I know how good a FS is and how important one is to the defense. I've been very vocal about that for years now.

The only thing is, why pass on a talent like Hargreaves for Ramsey? It's a tough call, no question, but I just don't know about it, man. Hargreaves is probably the best CB I've seen since Revis. I'm not kidding. He's got the making of a truly special player. I really like Ramsey a lot, but I can't quite say the same about him. Maybe my opinion is just skewed lately since he's playing CB. I'll go back and watch him play FS, but right now, I'm very conflicted.

I wouldn't be upset either way if we got Ramsey or Hargreaves, honestly.

I'd rather play Ramsey at corner tbh, and I think comparing Hargreaves to Revis might be a little too much.

[JoeyFlex5]

Lol, man, you're preaching to the converted here. I've pound the table for years (literally 2 years now) for an elite FS for this team and still find myself hoping Brooks, Elam, Trawick, Hill, Lewis, etc. amount to that guy. I'm still left asking for an elite FS. I know how good a FS is and how important one is to the defense. I've been very vocal about that for years now. 

 

The only thing is, why pass on a talent like Hargreaves for Ramsey? It's a tough call, no question, but I just don't know about it, man. Hargreaves is probably the best CB I've seen since Revis. I'm not kidding. He's got the making of a truly special player. I really like Ramsey a lot, but I can't quite say the same about him. Maybe my opinion is just skewed lately since he's playing CB. I'll go back and watch him play FS, but right now, I'm very conflicted. 

 

I wouldn't be upset either way if we got Ramsey or Hargreaves, honestly. 

chalk it up to personal preference. i wouldnt be upset either way, as i think very highly of hargreavs as well, but iprefer ramsey personally. i think he has a bigger potential to be a true splash player, and also i love his mean streak, hes just the kind of player i see turning our defense around and helping bring back the culture of toughness and playmaking on defense.