2016 DB Prospect Thread

[JoeyFlex5]

Sutton is my fav. CB. I don't think we have a realistic shot at Hargreaves and Sutton is def. a player any team would like, with that said I really want a FS this year. Ramsey would be such a great pick but I really think he goes top 10. 

well good news here, looks like the ravens are gonna be picking top 10 lol

[PurpleCity5]

well good news here, looks like the ravens are gonna be picking top 10 lol

Yeah. I'm still a fan of Sutton but I wouldn't pick him over Hargreaves after watching more tape. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah. I'm still a fan of Sutton but I wouldn't pick him over Hargreaves after watching more tape. 

i absolutely wouldnt pick sutton over hargreaves, but i wouldnt take either of them over ramsey. sutton is a late teens-early 20s guy it looks like while ramsey appears to be possibly top 5 and hargreaves appears top 10. 

 

not only do i think ramsey is overall a superior talent, but at a position where it is REALLY hard to find quality play, it also happens to be the biggest hindrance of this team right now. i wouldnt be upset with hargreaves because i think he has a high floor and he will be an immediate contributor and help us win games, but i think the real star of this draft after bosa and nkemdiche is ramsey

[PurpleCity5]

i absolutely wouldnt pick sutton over hargreaves, but i wouldnt take either of them over ramsey. sutton is a late teens-early 20s guy it looks like while ramsey appears to be possibly top 5 and hargreaves appears top 10. 

 

not only do i think ramsey is overall a superior talent, but at a position where it is REALLY hard to find quality play, it also happens to be the biggest hindrance of this team right now. i wouldnt be upset with hargreaves because i think he has a high floor and he will be an immediate contributor and help us win games, but i think the real star of this draft after bosa and nkemdiche is ramsey

I'm with you, I'd def. pick Ramsey over Hargreaves due to our poor FS play, if FS wasn't a problem I'd go with Hargreaves. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm with you, I'd def. pick Ramsey over Hargreaves due to our poor FS play, if FS wasn't a problem I'd go with Hargreaves. 

if we had a good FS then that would leave pass rush, CB, WR, and OT as our biggest issues, then it becomes a whole different can of worms. i think id go with a leonard floyd, one of the top OTs, or treadwell or nkemdiche over hargreaves. i like hargreaves alot, but i think CB is just an overrated need for this team right now and i feel like the coordination, lack of pass rush, and nonexistent communication and discipline from our safeties is making our corners look way worse than they are. also i think hargreaves is a good corner but im not sure hes a concrete top talent like a patrick peterson was coming out, and corners are such a risky pick that i tend to feel hesitant of them in high spots unless they are bonafide all pro caliber players.

[Dubs]

I love Ramsey much like others but I amy be in the minority in preferring Hargreaves over him. I will not get into the positional debate of what is worse on our team as both are in dire need, both have some young guys, and both positions are not playing up to the standard that most would expect. So to me it is kinda moot in that regard. I absolutely love Hargreaves positioning as a DB, his footwork, his out of break quickness, his hands, his confidence and calmness when the ball is in the air, and his football IQ. I am enamoured with him really, he is one of the few corners to handle Amari Cooper (who we could not just a couple weeks ago). I think his impact is immediate and I do think he is an All-pro player at a very early point in his career. 

 

On Ramsey, really am a fan of his playing style and I will always remember how he blew up Miami(Fl.) last year. He does have the ability to change a game, but I have been extremely disappointed in his play this year. He is playing out of position, and there is no question his talent is at FS and this year should be taken with a grain of salt but I have a hard time justifying him over Hargreaves because of his play this year. As of right now I do not see Ramsey as a Top 5 talent...I would say more 10-15, he does have some limits or atleast I have some questions. I find his hips and quickness/burst from transitions (back pedal to driving on ball or turning upfield) to be a little slow and it makes me question if he will have the range to be a top tier FS, in the ways Earl Thomas does. I am not sure If I have seen him make a ton of plays outside the hashmarks and deep so I have my wonders about his range, and actually see him playing his best between the hashes and under twenty yards. 

 

JoeyFlex--CB may be an overrated need, I would say it is just as high as any other though. Also I understand the worry of drafting CBs high, but I think secondary players on a whole are having some tough transitions. There have been a ton of safeties that have failed to live up to draft expectations (Vaccarro, Elam, Cyprien, Barron) and I think of all the positions in the secondary they have the most on their plate. Which makes their transition from college to the pros imo harder. Ramsey is in a good spot though as he has been on an extremely well coached FSU D, same can be said for Hargreaves too. 

[rmw10]

I love Ramsey much like others but I amy be in the minority in preferring Hargreaves over him. I will not get into the positional debate of what is worse on our team as both are in dire need, both have some young guys, and both positions are not playing up to the standard that most would expect. So to me it is kinda moot in that regard. I absolutely love Hargreaves positioning as a DB, his footwork, his out of break quickness, his hands, his confidence and calmness when the ball is in the air, and his football IQ. I am enamoured with him really, he is one of the few corners to handle Amari Cooper (who we could not just a couple weeks ago). I think his impact is immediate and I do think he is an All-pro player at a very early point in his career. 

 

On Ramsey, really am a fan of his playing style and I will always remember how he blew up Miami(Fl.) last year. He does have the ability to change a game, but I have been extremely disappointed in his play this year. He is playing out of position, and there is no question his talent is at FS and this year should be taken with a grain of salt but I have a hard time justifying him over Hargreaves because of his play this year. As of right now I do not see Ramsey as a Top 5 talent...I would say more 10-15, he does have some limits or atleast I have some questions. I find his hips and quickness/burst from transitions (back pedal to driving on ball or turning upfield) to be a little slow and it makes me question if he will have the range to be a top tier FS, in the ways Earl Thomas does. I am not sure If I have seen him make a ton of plays outside the hashmarks and deep so I have my wonders about his range, and actually see him playing his best between the hashes and under twenty yards. 

 

JoeyFlex--CB may be an overrated need, I would say it is just as high as any other though. Also I understand the worry of drafting CBs high, but I think secondary players on a whole are having some tough transitions. There have been a ton of safeties that have failed to live up to draft expectations (Vaccarro, Elam, Cyprien, Barron) and I think of all the positions in the secondary they have the most on their plate. Which makes their transition from college to the pros imo harder. Ramsey is in a good spot though as he has been on an extremely well coached FSU D, same can be said for Hargreaves too. 

 

I'm with you in regards to the Hargreaves vs. Ramsey debate.  I think Ramsey can be a good CB in time, but I like his fit better at FS.  I think he's more of a game changer there.  Hargreaves, on the other hand, is the most polished CB I've seen coming out of college in a long time.  I'm a huge fan of his.

[JoeyFlex5]

i dont like ramsey at cb and i didnt think very highly of FSU moving him there for his senior year when he is such a gamebreaker at his natural position, it may hurt his future and hopefully a year at cb doesnt hinder his nfl transition to safety. 

 

however, his impact as a safety is not one to be taken lightly, to dubs, those guys you named all had question marks coming out of college and were never seen as a "safe" pick, they all had big deficiencies in certain areas(except for vaccaro, i wasnt a huge fan of his but im shocked that hes turned out this bad) that some thought made them boom or bust guys, unluckily they all busted. i just dont see that in ramsey, the guy is for real, i dont see the reckless abandonment style that elam has, or the jack-of-all-master-of-none lacklusterness of vaccaro, i just see a guy who has a very high football IQ, with a high motor, a leaders mentality and a nasty mean streak that is fun to watch, and he is very technically sound as a safety as well. and the stiffness you mention, it seems very very minor, maybe as a cb its more easily noticed but id say his hip flexibility is on par for a NFL caliber FS.

[ravefan52]

I love Ramsey much like others but I amy be in the minority in preferring Hargreaves over him. I will not get into the positional debate of what is worse on our team as both are in dire need, both have some young guys, and both positions are not playing up to the standard that most would expect. So to me it is kinda moot in that regard. I absolutely love Hargreaves positioning as a DB, his footwork, his out of break quickness, his hands, his confidence and calmness when the ball is in the air, and his football IQ. I am enamoured with him really, he is one of the few corners to handle Amari Cooper (who we could not just a couple weeks ago). I think his impact is immediate and I do think he is an All-pro player at a very early point in his career.

On Ramsey, really am a fan of his playing style and I will always remember how he blew up Miami(Fl.) last year. He does have the ability to change a game, but I have been extremely disappointed in his play this year. He is playing out of position, and there is no question his talent is at FS and this year should be taken with a grain of salt but I have a hard time justifying him over Hargreaves because of his play this year. As of right now I do not see Ramsey as a Top 5 talent...I would say more 10-15, he does have some limits or atleast I have some questions. I find his hips and quickness/burst from transitions (back pedal to driving on ball or turning upfield) to be a little slow and it makes me question if he will have the range to be a top tier FS, in the ways Earl Thomas does. I am not sure If I have seen him make a ton of plays outside the hashmarks and deep so I have my wonders about his range, and actually see him playing his best between the hashes and under twenty yards.

JoeyFlex--CB may be an overrated need, I would say it is just as high as any other though. Also I understand the worry of drafting CBs high, but I think secondary players on a whole are having some tough transitions. There have been a ton of safeties that have failed to live up to draft expectations (Vaccarro, Elam, Cyprien, Barron) and I think of all the positions in the secondary they have the most on their plate. Which makes their transition from college to the pros imo harder. Ramsey is in a good spot though as he has been on an extremely well coached FSU D, same can be said for Hargreaves too.

I really really love what I've seen from Hargreaves ever since his freshman year. He's actually my second ranked player for us, behind Bosa. He's just such a natural corner and looks pro-ready, which is saying something for that position. I think besides perfect height he has all the traits you want. At worst he's a good starter and at best he's an elite corner imo.

Also agreed with what you said about CB as a need. The majority of our guys there seem to be made of glass and you can never have enough corners. Haven't people learned that these last couple year?. Also if we're picking in the top 10 we better not miss. We should go BPA that fills at least somewhat of a need and CB easily fits that description. Jimmy, Hargreaves and Webb would be deadly and allow us to do so much.

Edited October 15, 2015 by ravefan52

[PurpleCity5]

if we had a good FS then that would leave pass rush, CB, WR, and OT as our biggest issues, then it becomes a whole different can of worms. i think id go with a leonard floyd, one of the top OTs, or treadwell or nkemdiche over hargreaves. i like hargreaves alot, but i think CB is just an overrated need for this team right now and i feel like the coordination, lack of pass rush, and nonexistent communication and discipline from our safeties is making our corners look way worse than they are. also i think hargreaves is a good corner but im not sure hes a concrete top talent like a patrick peterson was coming out, and corners are such a risky pick that i tend to feel hesitant of them in high spots unless they are bonafide all pro caliber players.

I don't know if Id select all those players over Hargreaves. I think CB is an overrated need compared to FS but Webb is always a question mark and I believe he will be a FA soon. In that instance we could have Hargreaves learning under as a nickle and then taking over when Webb departs. I really would put Hargreaves #2 behind Ramsey. I don't anticipate the Front Office passing on Hargreaes but at the same time there is a good chance he won't be there.

As for WR, I do feel that if we don't sign one we HAVE to draft one early. Im with that belief.

[PurpleCity5]

I really really love what I've seen from Hargreaves ever since his freshman year. He's actually my second ranked player for us, behind Bosa. He's just such a natural corner and looks pro-ready, which is saying something for that position. I think besides perfect height he has all the traits you want. At worst he's a good starter and at best he's an elite corner imo.

Also agreed with what you said about CB as a need. The majority of our guys there seem to be made of glass and you can never have enough corners. Haven't people learned that these last couple year?. Also if we're picking in the top 10 we better not miss. We should go BPA that fills at least somewhat of a need and CB easily fits that description. Jimmy, Hargreaves and Webb would be deadly and allow us to do so much.

Completely agree. I'd pick Ramsey over Hargreaves due to our need at FS, which is pretty bad because we need one but I wouldn't be upset if we took Hargreaves over him, he's that good.

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't know if Id select all those players over Hargreaves. I think CB is an overrated need cot mpared to FS but Webb is always a question mark and I believe he will be a FA soon. In that instance we could have Hargreaves learning under as a nickle and then taking over when Webb departs. I really would put Hargreaves #2 behind Ramsey. I don't anticipate the Front Office passing on Hargreaes but at the same time there is a good chance he won't be there.

As for WR, I do feel that if we don't sign one we HAVE to draft one early. Im with that belief.

i like dural in the 2nd value wise over any of the first round wrs

[PurpleCity5]

i like dural in the 2nd value wise over any of the first round wrs

TOTALLY AGREE. I would love to have him in the 2nd over picking a WR in the 1st. Hes my 2nd favorite WR in the draft, I actually like him a bit more than Boyd.

[JoeyFlex5]

TOTALLY AGREE. I would love to have him in the 2nd over picking a WR in the 1st. Hes my 2nd favorite WR in the draft, I actually like him a bit more than Boyd.

im still on the treadwell train, hes my top wr, and i think boyd is a very close 2nd, and while dural gets very little hype i think he is just a notch behind boyd, so with a 2nd round projection on a guy who is a mid first round talent, yeah, ill take it lol. 

 

im a dural fan because he has the best separation skills in this draft, reliable hands, and is just stupidly explosive. he doesnt make box out and high point and contest catches very well, but you dont need those things when youre wide open on your first break.

[PurpleCity5]

im still on the treadwell train, hes my top wr, and i think boyd is a very close 2nd, and while dural gets very little hype i think he is just a notch behind boyd, so with a 2nd round projection on a guy who is a mid first round talent, yeah, ill take it lol. 

 

im a dural fan because he has the best separation skills in this draft, reliable hands, and is just stupidly explosive. he doesnt make box out and high point and contest catches very well, but you dont need those things when youre wide open on your first break.

I like both Treadwell and Boyd, I do believe Boyd will be the first WR taken. Dural in the 2nd round would be the definition of a value pick, I'd love to have him there. I don't think this WR class is mind-blowing but we can find some nice guys in round 2. I don't feel like we're going WR round 1, def. round 2. 

[GrimCoconut]

Honestly, if we're deciding between Hargreaves and Ramsey, I'm going with VHIII every time. I like both a lot, and I don't like how small VHIII is, but he's a really talented CB.

[Cillmatic]

Honestly, if we're deciding between Hargreaves and Ramsey, I'm going with VHIII every time. I like both a lot, and I don't like how small VHIII is, but he's a really talented CB.

Too small, plus he does the same "stay 15 yards back" crap that Webb does.

[GrimCoconut]

Too small, plus he does the same "stay 15 yards back" crap that Webb does.

You're right about his size. I'm not very enamored by his size. I'm worried about injuries with him, but he's technically outstanding and we need that. My opinion will possibly change by the draft, but that's my opinion as of now.

[52520Andrew]

Yeah I feel Hargraves has a very thin frame which is a concern for us, especially with how injury prone Jimmy and Webb are. Granted Bridgewater had a small frame as well

[Cillmatic]

Yeah I feel Hargraves has a very thin frame which is a concern for us, especially with how injury prone Jimmy and Webb are. Granted Bridgewater had a small frame as well

Bridgewater's job isn't to be physical. Hargreaves has to cover and tackle Calvin Johnson Edited October 16, 2015 by Cillmatic

[ravefan52]

Too small, plus he does the same "stay 15 yards back" crap that Webb does.

The coverage Hargreaves plays is probably what his DC calls, not him. Besides he plays press often and well.

 

Bridgewater's job isn't to be physical. Hargreaves has to cover and tackle Calvin Johnson

It's not like he's going to be covering elite WR's every week though. We have Jimmy who can cover the big guys and don't write VH3 off just because of his size, Grimes (5'10) covered Calvin well last year. Also Hargreaves is an aggressive and good tackler. He plays bigger than his size would suggest in that department

Edited October 16, 2015 by ravefan52

[Stevin]

Ramsey wasn't great against Miami

[Dubs]

Bridgewater's job isn't to be physical. Hargreaves has to cover and tackle Calvin Johnson

I think we only play Calvin once every four years so no big deal really...j/k

 

But on Hargreaves and his size as I have my concerns too. We do have guys like Jimmy and Tray Walker, and the NFL and everyone seems enamoured with big corners but there is a huuuuge need for us to have a guy who can be an outside or perimeter corner and cover players who get separation on their route running and quickness. We play Antonio Brown twice a year, we have done solid covering him and I think a guy like Hargreaves helps that for the future. We have been demolished by AJ Green consistently--I think we can all honestly say he alone has beat us atleast twice in the last two years. Clearly we have not covered him well, AJ is a big guy who runs like a small guy, in that he is a stud coming out of his breaks. I think we desperately need someone like Hargreaves as his movement is something we have been missing. Webb will not be around too much longer, and since his injuries he does not have the same type of movement. Hargreaves gives us a player who can match up on an Antonio Brown, Julian Edelman, Emmanuel Sanders, Travis Benjamin, Jeremy Maclin, Amari Cooper, OBJ and so on...we always point out he cannot cover Calvin, Julio, Dez but there are a ton of other types of WR threats who dominate in the league and we likely cannot cover or already shown we cannot. I am also concerned about his size but it is not like he looks like or plays like a 5'8, 180lb corner. Plus I think many comparisons could be made to Chris Harris, Revis, Trufant, Jason Verrett in terms of body type and play.

 

On injury and small players the whole small player gets injured more argument baffles me. As 52520Andrew said Jimmy gets injured a decent amount great size, Webb does too (iffy size) I am not sure it is as simple as small=injury waiting to happen...seems to be little more complex

[52520Andrew]

Bridgewater's job isn't to be physical. Hargreaves has to cover and tackle Calvin Johnson

He has to stand in the pocket and take hits from guys a lot bigger than Calvin Johnson

[VeiledPsychosis]

Hargreaves can always put on weight, most rookies have to regardless of position. It's not like being a little light should be a deal breaker

[VeiledPsychosis]

Sojourn Shelton for Wisconsin is undersized but really good from what I've seen

[GrimCoconut]

The one thing people don't account for with these picks is the importance of winning the division and making a team that can consistently do that.

I think Hargreaves matches up very, very well against an AJ Green or an Antonio Brown. I especially think he's a great matchup against Brown due to how good of a technician he is.

Having Jimmy and Hargreaves also means we can blitz more since we have two capable CB. Don't get me wrong thinking I don't want Ramsey, but his lack of discipline concerns me. I like how he plays with passion, but that same passion has caused him to do things I felt would raise the Yellow Flag. Lol

[GrimCoconut]

Hargreaves can always put on weight, most rookies have to regardless of position. It's not like being a little light should be a deal breaker

Adding weight can affect a player's speed. Furthermore, as we've seen with Arthur Brown, some guys just can't put on weight.

[Dubs]

With all the interest in Hargreaves thought it should be known he is going up against LSU and Dural tomorrow in prime time. As I have said before about LSU there passing game and QB is questionable but still a great matchup of rope teams and players.

Also as grim stated biggest thing really is to win division. Steelers and cincy have consistent weapons at WR we at some point will need to match up with this. On that note our division is loaded with some talented defensive lines on every team so we cannot afford to let our oline diminish either

[VeiledPsychosis]

Adding weight can affect a player's speed. Furthermore, as we've seen with Arthur Brown, some guys just can't put on weight.

there are more problems with Brown than just his weight. He put on like 5lbs this offseason and didn't appear to lose any speed in the preseason at all. Hargreaves would only need to put on maximum 10lbs and he'd be fine, with a 5'11" frame at 190 that shouldn't be too hard to do. In fact I'd be fine if he stayed at 190 and only gained 5, most corners his size in the league hover around 200 anyway, its not a huge difference, people are acting like the guy is weighing in at 170...