2016 DB Prospect Thread

[KBoum]

I'll bring this thread back because some nice discussions are being starter about DBs prospect.

 

What would your CB rankings be from 1 to 10 ?

Gotta admit the more I watch Eli Apple, the more I don't know if he has what it takes. Sometimes its gotta be his head I don't know his assignements but he plays way too off when he should be pressing and he looks lost. He reminds me a bit of Jimmy Smith in his first 1-2 years he was playing so off the WR and wasn't locating the ball he just didn't want to make any mistake. He's a lot better now. Must be studying the game or something

 

My CB ranking :

1- Ramsey (yes he's a really good CB as well)

2- VH3 (he's got all the skills, most of the weaknesses are coachable but I doubt he becomes a better tackler)

3- Alexander (I really like him he could end up the best man to man CB of this year draft)

4- Eli Apple

5- WJ3 (2nd round don't think he's going in the 1st)

6- Artie Burns (I like him as well)

7- Fuller (gotta watch some tapes, some says he's very good, others don't like him)

8- Cyrus Jones (I live what I see. He won't be an outside CB but can do it all in the slot and return game)

9- Harlan Miller (boom or bust type. will mostly be a slot CB but with the new speedy slot WRs every team needs one. Could have picked Sanchez)

10- Rashard Robinson (red flag but the potential is there. wanted to make a splash with my last two pick lol)

 

I'm really not sold on these guys :

Howard (not agile enough imo)

Canady (got all the tools but problem seems in his head)

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by KBoum

[RaineV1]

My top five is basically the same as yours. I'd be thrilled with any of them in the top 5.

[KBoum]

Went back studying Sean Davis because I think it was Grims who had him his is mock. I like him so far. He had a very good combine.

Might end up in my top 10 really soon

[JoeyFlex5]

I suggest you guys check out Kevin Peterson from OKSTU. seems like an excellent nickel guy, really under the radar and he's undersized but plays big and plays quick, lacks top end speed but he really can mirror guys and get his hands on the ball in short situations.

[Clmraven]

I like what I've seen from Zack Sanchez he's a very boom or bust type player by that I mean he'll either get an int or give up a TD, but he looks feisty in run support and could fare better as a safety/nickel hybrid, he could be the aggressive type player we've been missing in the secondary.

[GrimCoconut]

10 hours ago, Clmraven said:

I like what I've seen from Zack Sanchez he's a very boom or bust type player by that I mean he'll either get an int or give up a TD, but he looks feisty in run support and could fare better as a safety/nickel hybrid, he could be the aggressive type player we've been missing in the secondary.

I like Sanchez as well. I was watching him since back in 2013, when I was looking closely at Aaron Colvin. Sanchez stood out in a good way. I think he could be a better CB with better coaching. His technique never really evolved at Oklahoma. 

[nishadrahman13]

On 3/17/2016 at 9:24 AM, KBoum said:

I'll bring this thread back because some nice discussions are being starter about DBs prospect.

 

What would your CB rankings be from 1 to 10 ?

Gotta admit the more I watch Eli Apple, the more I don't know if he has what it takes. Sometimes its gotta be his head I don't know his assignements but he plays way too off when he should be pressing and he looks lost. He reminds me a bit of Jimmy Smith in his first 1-2 years he was playing so off the WR and wasn't locating the ball he just didn't want to make any mistake. He's a lot better now. Must be studying the game or something

 

My CB ranking :

1- Ramsey (yes he's a really good CB as well)

2- VH3 (he's got all the skills, most of the weaknesses are coachable but I doubt he becomes a better tackler)

3- Alexander (I really like him he could end up the best man to man CB of this year draft)

4- Eli Apple

5- WJ3 (2nd round don't think he's going in the 1st)

6- Artie Burns (I like him as well)

7- Fuller (gotta watch some tapes, some says he's very good, others don't like him)

8- Cyrus Jones (I live what I see. He won't be an outside CB but can do it all in the slot and return game)

9- Harlan Miller (boom or bust type. will mostly be a slot CB but with the new speedy slot WRs every team needs one. Could have picked Sanchez)

10- Rashard Robinson (red flag but the potential is there. wanted to make a splash with my last two pick lol)

 

I'm really not sold on these guys :

Howard (not agile enough imo)

Canady (got all the tools but problem seems in his head)

 

My rankings:

1. Jalen Ramsey (based on ceiling and not floor. His floor is scary low imo)

2. VH3 (major concerns about height and long speed)

3. William Jackson III: my favorite corner in this draft. If the Steelers end up with him, which seems likely, I will be incredibly disappointed. Honestly think he will be the best corner out of this draft.

4. Mackensie Alexander: good cover man, but stats inflated by inordinate number of crappy passes in his vicinity. I'm baffled by his utter lack of interceptions.

Haven't looked at enough corners for more analysis, but would add that Kendall Fuller is a third rounder to me based on athleticism. He is constantly getting burned in his 2015 tape.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, nishadrahman13 said:

My rankings:

1. Jalen Ramsey (based on ceiling and not floor. His floor is scary low imo)

2. VH3 (major concerns about height and long speed)

3. William Jackson III: my favorite corner in this draft. If the Steelers end up with him, which seems likely, I will be incredibly disappointed. Honestly think he will be the best corner out of this draft.

4. Mackensie Alexander: good cover man, but stats inflated by inordinate number of crappy passes in his vicinity. I'm baffled by his utter lack of interceptions.

Haven't looked at enough corners for more analysis, but would add that Kendall Fuller is a third rounder to me based on athleticism. He is constantly getting burned in his 2015 tape.

If you are scared of ramseys floor then how is wj3 your favorite corner? Wj3 has a much lower floor and as much as i like wj3 I think He is a lot less likely to hit his ceiling than Ramsey. He's got a bit of hip stiffness and his fluidity and short area quickness are subpar compared to a guy like Ramsey who defies all the negative stereotypes about big and physical corners.

[RavensFanMania]

On 3/17/2016 at 10:36 AM, KBoum said:

Went back studying Sean Davis because I think it was Grims who had him his is mock. I like him so far. He had a very good combine.

Might end up in my top 10 really soon

much better as a safety than as a CB.  Definitely miscast as  a corner at MD.  May want to look at Jalen Mills and Jeremy Cash as well.  Not necessarily for the top 10, but to become more familiar with them.

Edited March 22, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[Clmraven]

I think ive mentioned him before but I'm a huge fan of Justin Simmons, great deep zone instincts and ball skills, not overly physical but is a solid tackler.

 

This draft class is stacked with DBs I'm hoping we come away with atleast 2 or 3. 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Didn't jalen mills have a domestic issue? I think He has a perfect skill set for our needs but I recall someone saying he had off the field issues that likely took him off our board

[Clmraven]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Didn't jalen mills have a domestic issue? I think He has a perfect skill set for our needs but I recall someone saying he had off the field issues that likely took him off our board

He had a battery of a woman charge back in 2014 but I believe the charges were dropped because he agreed to go through a DV program (similar to Ray Rice). It's a shame cause I really like him as a player, I have to wonder if Ozzie will really take him off the board, and if so are we really gonna take any red flagged prospects off our board until the end of time just because we had a very bad situation with one player.

[GrimCoconut]

31 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

much better as a safety than as a CB.  Definitely miscast as  a corner at MD.  May want to look at Jalen Mills and Jeremy Cash as well.  Not necessarily for the top 10, but to become more familiar with them.

I think he could play either position just fine. He actually looked a bit better at CB than S. He played safety in 2014 and then played CB in 2015. He didn't light the world on fire, but I liked what I saw from him more on the field when I went to the games than when I went to the games last year when he played S.

[RavensFanMania]

8 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think he could play either position just fine. He actually looked a bit better at CB than S. He played safety in 2014 and then played CB in 2015. He didn't light the world on fire, but I liked what I saw from him more on the field when I went to the games than when I went to the games last year when he played S.

saw him play both live, but it's good to know that he has the ability to play both.  I just feel he would be better at safety. Hope he does well in the NFL.  What are your thoughts on Cash and Mills?

[DomMcRaven]

Film watchers, I have to ask: who are your top 3 safeties in terms of range and ballhawking abilities?

[JoeyFlex5]

32 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

Film watchers, I have to ask: who are your top 3 safeties in terms of range and ballhawking abilities?

Range - ramsey.

Ballhawking - Thompson, due to smarts, lacks range. 

Fuller could be a ballhawking safety, vonn bell is seen as a SS but he is smart and rangy as well and could fit the modern prototype of the hybrid safety who doesnt have a true free or strong position.

Cash, the dude from wv(drawing a blank on his name atm), cravens, killebrew, and basically most of the top 4 round graded safeties are more box guys. Jalen mills is the best coverage safety past the 2nd round but could be off of our boards, great instincts, range, and ball skills, and can man cover like a nickel corner

[Clmraven]

38 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

Film watchers, I have to ask: who are your top 3 safeties in terms of range and ballhawking abilities?

Darian Thompson is probably the highest rated true FS, there's also a couple late round guys who both played a lot of deep coverage well i like a lot in Kevin Byard and Justin Simmons.

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

the dude from wv(drawing a blank on his name atm),

Karl Joseph

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Karl Joseph

Thank you lol it was bugging me so bad but I was too lazy to tab out and check lol

[52520Andrew]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Thank you lol it was bugging me so bad but I was too lazy to tab out and check lol

Yeah I forgot too lol so I had to google out of curiosity. One of those times it is on the tip of your tongue but you can't quite remember.

[thieverycorporation]

Hargreaves looked great thus far during the drills today. Espn is televising Florida's pro day.

[JoeyFlex5]

33 minutes ago, thieverycorporation said:

Hargreaves looked great thus far during the drills today. Espn is televising Florida's pro day.

Hargreaves is simply a stellar cb. 

 

I won't let the silly talk about the end of his season deter me. The boy is a machine and will be a perfect fit and make a MASSIVE improvement to our defense the day he steps on the field

[Dubs]

3 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

Film watchers, I have to ask: who are your top 3 safeties in terms of range and ballhawking abilities?

In terms of other guys who have yet to be brought up..Tyvis Powell is an interesting one. Has played really well in big games, has the speed and range to be a true center fielder. Not sure on his draft stock--his combine likely helped him (under 4.5) but he has some issues in his overall game and tackling. Has a good amount of experience though and again I am a sucker for players who play big in big games and big moments, that usually translates well in the NFL to similar moments. 

 

KeiVarae Russell may be another to keep an eye on. Some injuries and issues being on the field but I think he may be one of those CBs who may be able to make the switch. Not a huge guy, but a good wrap up tackler and physical, and I am impressed more when he is off the LOS. Might be a stretch to say he could be a S, but maybe...may be best in the slot. Think he will provide good value in this draft though

[thieverycorporation]

30 minutes ago, Dubs said:

In terms of other guys who have yet to be brought up..Tyvis Powell is an interesting one. Has played really well in big games, has the speed and range to be a true center fielder. Not sure on his draft stock--his combine likely helped him (under 4.5) but he has some issues in his overall game and tackling. Has a good amount of experience though and again I am a sucker for players who play big in big games and big moments, that usually translates well in the NFL to similar moments. 

 

KeiVarae Russell may be another to keep an eye on. Some injuries and issues being on the field but I think he may be one of those CBs who may be able to make the switch. Not a huge guy, but a good wrap up tackler and physical, and I am impressed more when he is off the LOS. Might be a stretch to say he could be a S, but maybe...may be best in the slot. Think he will provide good value in this draft though

Russsell was one of those I liked when watching the games for two seasons. Seems to have viable skills to be coached up. The one knock on him after reading about his skill set (Athlon Sports) is instincts. For some the lightbulb clicks on through reps and film study. For some not so much or at all. But I'd definitely take a long look at him. Round ? because I'm not quite sure. He'd also need to bulk up a little more and frame/length suggest he could handle more for physicality purposes. 

Your statement in the last paragraph last sentence shows you like to gamble by nature. (Not that you do). I like that mindset. I think sure things can easily become sure misses as well. It's what you do with the coaching and talent(s) you possess. Hargreaves at minimum gets to shutdown the slot and speedy receiver. Weddle plays spoiler and mop up duty. I'm looking for post draft cuts of those at redundant positions.They will be jettisoned for the sake cap space for the immediate and distant futures.

Edited March 22, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[dpatrickguy]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Hargreaves is simply a stellar cb. 

 

I won't let the silly talk about the end of his season deter me. The boy is a machine and will be a perfect fit and make a MASSIVE improvement to our defense the day he steps on the field

I honestly think my favorite thing about Hargreaves might be his attitude. His interviews are great.

[thieverycorporation]

1 hour ago, dpatrickguy said:

I honestly think my favorite thing about Hargreaves might be his attitude. His interviews are great.

Harbaugh type dude with a clean slate. The best thing to me is just about everything. Change of direction to mirror and them hands. Not much not to like. Every DB has a bad game. Even Revis. It's just how often. 

Vernon @ 6th.

Edited March 22, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[jazz1988]

16 hours ago, Clmraven said:

He had a battery of a woman charge back in 2014 but I believe the charges were dropped because he agreed to go through a DV program (similar to Ray Rice). It's a shame cause I really like him as a player, I have to wonder if Ozzie will really take him off the board, and if so are we really gonna take any red flagged prospects off our board until the end of time just because we had a very bad situation with one player.

Ozzie said so him self that they will not be drafting  any players that have domestic violence in their past.If Mills domestic violence charges had been dropped all together with out having to go to a DV program than he would most likely be on The Raven radar as a  draftable player if they had interest. 

 

I can't really blame The Ravens for taking a strong stance against domestic violence because  it's such a serious issue. When it comes to other players with red flags i'm Ozzie   will continue to do what  he always have done but I doubt the Will Hill or even Terrance Cody issue hasn't made them more serious about getting high character players that are willing to operate as  professionals on and off the field.

Edited March 22, 2016 by jazz1988

[ravensnation5220]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Hargreaves is simply a stellar cb. 

 

I won't let the silly talk about the end of his season deter me. The boy is a machine and will be a perfect fit and make a MASSIVE improvement to our defense the day he steps on the field

#Anyonebutstanley. Ill start it now. To me if the consensus top 5 are gone. I wouldnt take anyone but VH3. Solid pro and great character, plays hard and wont back down from a challenge. Like ray lewis wont let being to small or slow or whatever anyone says about him take away any confidence away from him. And i love that attitude. Shows maturity and hes only 20. Im 21 lol so i have a lot of respect for that

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

#Anyonebutstanley. Ill start it now. To me if the consensus top 5 are gone. I wouldnt take anyone but VH3. Solid pro and great character, plays hard and wont back down from a challenge. Like ray lewis wont let being to small or slow or whatever anyone says about him take away any confidence away from him. And i love that attitude. Shows maturity and hes only 20. Im 21 lol so i have a lot of respect for that

This. Stanley has questions about work ethic and character, and at 6 I just don't want that risk. I personally believe if he was committed that he would be in the weight room more because his frame is awfully strange, his shoulders are narrow and his arms look like they hold quite a bit of fat compared to a lot of first round tackles. Guys like tunsil and spriggs and Conklin have obvious work ethic and you can tell they put in their dues everywhere, I have always wondered if Stanley was putting in work off the field and when rumors started to circulate about his commitment it really turned me off of him.

[nishadrahman13]

20 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

If you are scared of ramseys floor then how is wj3 your favorite corner? Wj3 has a much lower floor and as much as i like wj3 I think He is a lot less likely to hit his ceiling than Ramsey. He's got a bit of hip stiffness and his fluidity and short area quickness are subpar compared to a guy like Ramsey who defies all the negative stereotypes about big and physical corners.

Great question, and I have two answers:

1. Draft value: WJ3 will be available far later and I'm not convinced that he will be hugely worse than Ramsey. I think there's at least a 45% chance he'll be a better football player than Ramsey.

2. Ball skills: Ramsey's highlights tend to focus more on big hits than coverage, which reminds me more of Elam than I'm comfortable with. WJ3 has a significant history of producing turnovers and is burnt at about the same rate as Ramsey imo.