Can we start Terrence Brooks already?

[GrimCoconut]

Well then we need to look at Ozzie because that makes another washed pick.

I don't necessarily blame Ozzie. It may be the fact that he's not getting the coaching he needs from his position coach. He's still new to the position. Edited December 3, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm starting to think this is the truth. Nobody wants to admit it. I don't want to say it, either, but I think it's the elephant in the room.

yup

 

Well then we need to look at Ozzie because that makes another washed pick.

taking a 3rd round flier on a supreme athlete who showed versatility and many had touted as a 2nd rounder isnt something to bash ozzie about. taking elam, taking upshaw over jeffrey, these are bashable, taking brooks in the 3rd is not, same goes for arthur brown in the 2nd, these were both seen as total steals and nobody could have expected them to pan out as horribly as they have

[JoeyFlex5]

Brooks isn't the backup SS is why this happened. He is the backup FS and a backup nickel corner. He's come in for an injured Kendrick Lewis a couple times as well as when we had injuries to corners. Nobody wants to admit it??? Admit that he's not good? How can anyone say he's not good until he gets enough playing time to show what he can do. He's made several good plays in his short career. For a recent example, that kick-six wouldn't have happened without Brooks. Yeah he's made mistakes, everyone does. Think of this. Will Hill made a HUGE mistake when he let Benjamin score the game tying TD, but nobody will get on him about that because he's Will Hill and also ran in the kick-six. Give me a break. Plus the coaches say he will have a good future in this league and for the Ravens. Some of our players don't develop until their 3rd or 4th year. Think of guys like McPhee and Smith. Brooks has been hurt throughout his career, but once he gets a solid opportunity I believe he will show us that he truly is a good player.

coaches have also touted elam, terrence cody, oniel cousins, jah reid, tandon doss, deonte thompson, jeremy butler, rashaan melvin, and a laundry list of other players who have been absolute trash, doesnt mean anything. and will hill gets a pass because he has played nearly every snap and has been by far the best DB we have this year, and one of very few bright spots on our horrid defense, meanwhile brooks in very limited snaps has shown nothing but one good hit and mental lapses.

[GrimCoconut]

Brooks isn't the backup SS is why this happened. He is the backup FS and a backup nickel corner. He's come in for an injured Kendrick Lewis a couple times as well as when we had injuries to corners. Nobody wants to admit it??? Admit that he's not good? How can anyone say he's not good until he gets enough playing time to show what he can do. He's made several good plays in his short career. For a recent example, that kick-six wouldn't have happened without Brooks. Yeah he's made mistakes, everyone does. Think of this. Will Hill made a HUGE mistake when he let Benjamin score the game tying TD, but nobody will get on him about that because he's Will Hill and also ran in the kick-six. Give me a break. Plus the coaches say he will have a good future in this league and for the Ravens. Some of our players don't develop until their 3rd or 4th year. Think of guys like McPhee and Smith. Brooks has been hurt throughout his career, but once he gets a solid opportunity I believe he will show us that he truly is a good player.

Let’s start with your comment explaining why you think Brooks didn’t come into the game when Hill went down because he isn’t the back-up SS but is the back-up FS. If this is the case, why did Webb start to play more as a safety against the Browns when the Ravens themselves stated they want to use him as more of a FS (BaltimoreRavens.com, 2015)? If Will Hill, the supposed SS, went down, then why would Webb play ‘SS’? The categorized roles of SS & FS are primarily irrelevant in the NFL today since both are expected to cover and it’s rare to have one centerfielder and one enforcer.

 

Now let’s talk about what Brooks’ role actually is. You say he isn’t a back-up SS but he’s the back-up FS and this somehow explains why he didn't come into the game. The only issue I take with this is that John Harbaugh himself stated how he and Brooks both see his role as what you would call a typical SS (Baltimore Sun, 2015).

 

“He’s fast, he’s a very good blitzer, he plays the run well and he’s probably likening it to a strong-safety-type position in base defense, and there are some similarities there," Ravens coach John Harbaugh said. "I think that’s why he’s comfortable in there. Obviously, he can continue to improve; I’m sure he’d be the first to tell you that. But he has some skills, speed, toughness. He plays in the box well as a box safety, and that fits that role to some degree”(Baltimore Sun, 2015).

 

If he isn’t a SS, then please explain this comment above from Harbaugh? You probably can’t rationalize it because you honestly probably didn’t think about what you said before you said it, and in an attempt to call me out, you only find yourself looking uninformed. Now, clearly his role conflicts with what the depth chart says, since you are right in that he is listed as the back-up FS, but that isn’t frankly his role when he plays (Baltimore Ravens, 2015). He blitzes a lot, which is effective because he goes into the slot and it means he can get a nice hit on the QB on the safety blitz.

 

Now, as for your comment about thinking I am implying that he’s not good, I said that I am beginning to believe this may be true and that it’s something nobody wants to be true but it may well be (GrimCoconut, 2015). You may say he doesn’t get enough playing time, but why doesn’t he? It’s certainly not because of quality starters in front of him. Maybe he just doesn’t practice well, and he doesn’t do enough in games to actually make the coaches put him in there more.

 

I actually like Brooks and was and still am a big fan of his. If you read my posts and actually asked me my opinion on him before ranting here to me, you’d know that but instead you simply assumed I don’t like him and don’t think he’s good from one comment. As for your comment regarding how it takes time to develop, I don’t disagree and I think this may be the case since he hasn’t played safety long and perhaps his instincts are still coming along. He certainly doesn’t have great position coaches to help him along. The difference between him and McPhee is McPhee had big flashes early on, and frankly, Brooks hasn’t had the same flashes as of yet. He had one really dumb play last year, in fact, against I believe the Saints in which he could’ve had an easy INT but he just looked dead at the ball. That doesn’t help his case at all.

 

References

BaltimoreRavens.com. (2015). Depth Chart. Retrieved from http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/depth-chart-2015.html

Meoli, J. (2015, Oct. 13). Amid big changes in secondary, Terrence Brooks finds a potential impact role. Retrieved from http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-amid-big-changes-in-secondary-terrence-brooks-finds-a-potential-impact-role-20151013-story.html

Mink, R. (2015, Nov 17). Expect Lardarius Webb to Play More Safety. Retrieved from http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Expect-Lardarius-Webb-To-Play-More-Safety/a85432ae-38bf-4597-a9bf-32cfb3afc5ec

Edited December 3, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[spitfire418]

well we of course shouldn't expect favoritism from the guy who has Brooks as his avatar and made a thread clamoring for him as a starter.

I like Brooks and want him to start and so do others. There's nothing wrong with that. And who cares about my avatar, I just changed it anyways.

[spitfire418]

Let’s start with your comment explaining why you think Brooks didn’t come into the game when Hill went down because he isn’t the back-up SS but is the back-up FS. If this is the case, why did Webb start to play more as a safety against the Browns when the Ravens themselves stated they want to use him as more of a FS (BaltimoreRavens.com, 2015)? If Will Hill, the supposed SS, went down, then why would Webb play ‘SS’? The categorized roles of SS & FS are primarily irrelevant in the NFL today since both are expected to cover and it’s rare to have one centerfielder and one enforcer.

 

Now let’s talk about what Brooks’ role actually is. You say he isn’t a back-up SS but he’s the back-up FS and this somehow explains why he didn't come into the game. The only issue I take with this is that John Harbaugh himself stated how he and Brooks both see his role as what you would call a typical SS (Baltimore Sun, 2015).

 

“He’s fast, he’s a very good blitzer, he plays the run well and he’s probably likening it to a strong-safety-type position in base defense, and there are some similarities there," Ravens coach John Harbaugh said. "I think that’s why he’s comfortable in there. Obviously, he can continue to improve; I’m sure he’d be the first to tell you that. But he has some skills, speed, toughness. He plays in the box well as a box safety, and that fits that role to some degree”(Baltimore Sun, 2015).

 

If he isn’t a SS, then please explain this comment above from Harbaugh? You probably can’t rationalize it because you honestly probably didn’t think about what you said before you said it, and in an attempt to call me out, you only find yourself looking uninformed. Now, clearly his role conflicts with what the depth chart says, since you are right in that he is listed as the back-up FS, but that isn’t frankly his role when he plays (Baltimore Ravens, 2015). He blitzes a lot, which is effective because he goes into the slot and it means he can get a nice hit on the QB on the safety blitz.

 

Now, as for your comment about thinking I am implying that he’s not good, I said that I am beginning to believe this may be true and that it’s something nobody wants to be true but it may well be (GrimCoconut, 2015). You may say he doesn’t get enough playing time, but why doesn’t he? It’s certainly not because of quality starters in front of him. Maybe he just doesn’t practice well, and he doesn’t do enough in games to actually make the coaches put him in there more.

 

I actually like Brooks and was and still am a big fan of his. If you read my posts and actually asked me my opinion on him before ranting here to me, you’d know that but instead you simply assumed I don’t like him and don’t think he’s good from one comment. As for your comment regarding how it takes time to develop, I don’t disagree and I think this may be the case since he hasn’t played safety long and perhaps his instincts are still coming along. He certainly doesn’t have great position coaches to help him along. The difference between him and McPhee is McPhee had big flashes early on, and frankly, Brooks hasn’t had the same flashes as of yet. He had one really dumb play last year, in fact, against I believe the Saints in which he could’ve had an easy INT but he just looked dead at the ball. That doesn’t help his case at all.

 

References

BaltimoreRavens.com. (2015). Depth Chart. Retrieved from http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/depth-chart-2015.html

Meoli, J. (2015, Oct. 13). Amid big changes in secondary, Terrence Brooks finds a potential impact role. Retrieved from http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-amid-big-changes-in-secondary-terrence-brooks-finds-a-potential-impact-role-20151013-story.html

Mink, R. (2015, Nov 17). Expect Lardarius Webb to Play More Safety. Retrieved from http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Expect-Lardarius-Webb-To-Play-More-Safety/a85432ae-38bf-4597-a9bf-32cfb3afc5ec

Writing a research paper? Nice lol. I'm not taking the time to respond to all of this. I've said what I believe about this in several of my posts and obviously nothing I say will change your opinion. We disagree and I'm not going to sit here and argue all day. I've done that enough about this topic already.

[GrimCoconut]

Writing a research paper? Nice lol. I'm not taking the time to respond to all of this. I've said what I believe about this in several of my posts and obviously nothing I say will change your opinion. We disagree and I'm not going to sit here and argue all day. I've done that enough about this topic already.

Yep. I thought it would be humorous. You may not believe that, but the intentional addition of references was a blatant attempt at the joke, just in case anyone missed it.

 

Anyway, there's no argument. I really don't see how we even argue, except that I think you're a bit biased in favor of Brooks. I actually like him quite a bit, and even have high hopes he can become something special. I think it's too early to call him a failure, but I think there's certainly valid questions surrounding whether he is going to succeed. I think the biggest problem for him is the lack of coaching. I don't think he's getting the best coaching, and this seems to be the general case for our entire secondary. He's not excluded.

 

If you actually read and understood my argument, I think you'd understand I am in no way bashing Brooks. In fact, far from it. I'm only saying that there's valid concern surrounding his future and he may not pan out. It's something we need to realize is a distinct possibility. The worst thing for him is he hasn't played safety long, coupled with poor or constantly changing secondary coaching, makes it tough for him to become that guy. Here's hoping he turns it out. We talk about how it's hard for guys when their coordinators leave, but having a consistent positional coach does wonders for a player's development, especially one needing development in Brooks coming out of FSU. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Static]

 I'm only saying that there's valid concern surrounding his future and he may not pan out. It's something we need to realize is a distinct possibility. 

 

Nope , cant say stuff like that. Not here, gotta be 100% positive. Terrence Brooks clearly is our best player. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Static

[spitfire418]

Yep. I thought it would be humorous. You may not believe that, but the intentional addition of references was a blatant attempt at the joke, just in case anyone missed it.

 

Anyway, there's no argument. I really don't see how we even argue, except that I think you're a bit biased in favor of Brooks. I actually like him quite a bit, and even have high hopes he can become something special. I think it's too early to call him a failure, but I think there's certainly valid questions surrounding whether he is going to succeed. I think the biggest problem for him is the lack of coaching. I don't think he's getting the best coaching, and this seems to be the general case for our entire secondary. He's not excluded.

 

If you actually read and understood my argument, I think you'd understand I am in no way bashing Brooks. In fact, far from it. I'm only saying that there's valid concern surrounding his future and he may not pan out. It's something we need to realize is a distinct possibility. The worst thing for him is he hasn't played safety long, coupled with poor or constantly changing secondary coaching, makes it tough for him to become that guy. Here's hoping he turns it out. We talk about how it's hard for guys when their coordinators leave, but having a consistent positional coach does wonders for a player's development, especially one needing development in Brooks coming out of FSU. 

I'm not trying to be biased and only be one sided nor am I trying to make enemies here. The deal is, I like Terrence Brooks (obviously) and want him to get a shot at being a starter for this team, that is all. He's not perfect, he has made good and bad plays so far in his career and dealt with injuries. I've never said he is a starting safety in this league or is just this incredible player, all I'm saying is that he could be and I've been waiting for a while to see him do great things, but he has been held back by some things. I just hate when people (not you) assume that he won't be or isn't a good player (he hasn't got a fair chance yet) and hasn't done anything positive for this team (he has). He's done both positive and negative things, that's a fact. All I'm saying is I hope he gets his chance and he has the potential to be a starter. No hard feelings man.

Edited December 3, 2015 by spitfire418

[JoeyFlex5]

I like Brooks and want him to start and so do others. There's nothing wrong with that. And who cares about my avatar, I just changed it anyways.

nobody said there is anything wrong with it, but the thing is, you have shown a bias for him with essentially no base at all because he has not been impressive and has given zero hope, but you are highly touting him as the starter anyway. 

 

tough news for ya, terrence brooks isnt starting, because terrence brooks has not proven to be an NFL caliber safety. he is not starting because our defense is more likely to stop the opponent from scoring with some combination of kendrick lewis, will hill, lardarius webb, and shareece wright as the safeies and nickel backs, and replacing one of those players with terrence brooks would make our secondary even more of a liability and this more likely to give up a long touchdown. there it is, read it nice and good and make peace with it, because unless he becomes a better player then that will be the case. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by JoeyFlex5

[JoeyFlex5]

ok guys, i think ive figured it out. brooks is better than any other safety we have right now and if you disagree you are wrong.

[spitfire418]

ok guys, i think ive figured it out. brooks is better than any other safety we have right now and if you disagree you are wrong.

He's not as of now and I've never said that. I'm done arguing with you man. Waste of time.

Edited December 4, 2015 by spitfire418

[BirdWatcher]

Enough with the insults already. And, for heaven's sake, if someone stoops to that, PLEASE don't quote it back. That just gets your post removed, too.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm not trying to be biased and only be one sided nor am I trying to make enemies here. The deal is, I like Terrence Brooks (obviously) and want him to get a shot at being a starter for this team, that is all. He's not perfect, he has made good and bad plays so far in his career and dealt with injuries. I've never said he is a starting safety in this league or is just this incredible player, all I'm saying is that he could be and I've been waiting for a while to see him do great things, but he has been held back by some things. I just hate when people (not you) assume that he won't be or isn't a good player (he hasn't got a fair chance yet) and hasn't done anything positive for this team (he has). He's done both positive and negative things, that's a fact. All I'm saying is I hope he gets his chance and he has the potential to be a starter. No hard feelings man.

Well, I think we're both on the same page here. I appreciate the way you said it here. No need to get mad about it. I do think Brooks has potential but I think it's fair to question him at the next level since he can't see the field.

Hopefully he becomes something.

[GrimCoconut]

Enough with the insults already. And, for heaven's sake, if someone stoops to that, PLEASE don't quote it back. That just gets your post removed, too.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any real insults. If you want those then go to that one draft thread in the Draft forum.

[spitfire418]

Well, I think we're both on the same page here. I appreciate the way you said it here. No need to get mad about it. I do think Brooks has potential but I think it's fair to question him at the next level since he can't see the field.

Hopefully he becomes something.

I'm not mad at all. All I'm doing is stating my opinion. This is a forum isn't it? As I said, no hard feelings.

[spitfire418]

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any real insults. If you want those then go to that one draft thread in the Draft forum.

I had no intention to insult anybody...

[GrimCoconut]

I had no intention to insult anybody...

I'm not mad at all. All I'm doing is stating my opinion. This is a forum isn't it? As I said, no hard feelings.

I was agreeing with you. I have no hard feelings at all from a forum. You're good, man.

[spitfire418]

I was agreeing with you. I have no hard feelings at all from a forum. You're good, man.

I know you were agreeing with me, I was just saying I wasn't mad. As you said, it's a forum. There shouldn't be hard feelings.

[GrimCoconut]

I know you were agreeing with me, I was just saying I wasn't mad. As you said, it's a forum. There shouldn't be hard feelings.

Ahh okay. Sounds good!

Hopefully Brooks gets on the field. I actually really like how he blitzes the QB in the safety blitz.

[BirdWatcher]

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see any real insults. If you want those then go to that one draft thread in the Draft forum.

Glad you missed it. I hope most others did, too.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

I was agreeing with you. I have no hard feelings at all from a forum. You're good, man.

Well I do! And I'm furious! How could you sort of doubt Terrence Brooks but also think he's capable of succeeding? I can only handle definitive stances. Edited December 4, 2015 by The Oakland Cathedral

[Boddiebroadus]

Let him gain 15 pounds. Put him in the box and use him how cardinals use bucannon.

[GrimCoconut]

Well I do! And I'm furious! How could you sort of doubt Terrence Brooks but also think he's capable of succeeding? I can only handle definitive stances.

I'm so sorry. I promise it'll never happen again.

[52520Andrew]

Yep. I thought it would be humorous. You may not believe that, but the intentional addition of references was a blatant attempt at the joke, just in case anyone missed it.

 

I didn't if it makes you feel better.

[Virginia 55]

Brooks was "in position on both the deep play against the Bengals and the Saints" like Mosley is "in position" to cover. Being in position means nothing when you don't play defense when you're there.

I disagree, being in position means you understand the defense. Making the play when the play presents itself, is easily correctable. It's usually just refining your technique.  

 

You can play much faster when you understand where you are supposed to be on the field.

This takes time.   

Edited December 4, 2015 by Virginia 55

[52520Andrew]

Well I do! And I'm furious! How could you sort of doubt Terrence Brooks but also think he's capable of succeeding? I can only handle definitive stances.

 

Yeah I agree! I am sick of all this wishy washy stuff on here, I miss the days when people were either for a player or against them with no middle ground! Kinda like the Pats fans are with Brady(although without the against them part)!!! These guys are either the best players ever and should be defended to the death on these boards or they are bums and must be cut and run out of town! And one play should not change the stance of so many people when it comes to this stuff! And now I should mention I am having fun with this post for the most part and you should not take this personally and neg it or I will be very sad.

 

Also, sarcasm is a forgotten art in RT(it survives deep in other areas of the forum but it's existence has come into question by a number of posters), one must always point it out nowadays which ruins the fun

[The Oakland Cathedral]

I'm so sorry. I promise it'll never happen again.

I'm glad. Thank you for being so reasonable.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Yeah I agree! I am sick of all this wishy washy stuff on here, I miss the days when people were either for a player or against them with no middle ground! Kinda like the Pats fans are with Brady(although without the against them part)!!! These guys are either the best players ever and should be defended to the death on these boards or they are bums and must be cut and run out of town! And one play should not change the stance of so many people when it comes to this stuff! And now I should mention I am having fun with this post for the most part and you should not take this personally and neg it or I will be very sad.

Also, sarcasm is a forgotten art in RT(it survives deep in other areas of the forum but it's existence has come into question by a number of posters), one must always point it out nowadays which ruins the fun

Negged, be sad.

[spitfire418]

All I made this thread for was to express my opinion on Brooks and the FS position and to see what others thought about it. You guys say I think Terrence Brooks is the best player ever and does nothing wrong and I've never said that, not once. We'll just see what happens in the future with this topic and until then nothing more can be said I guess.