Can we start Terrence Brooks already?

[rmw10]

Still think ya'll are crazy if you think it's anything other than Brooks, Brown, etc. holding themselves back.  If they were considered legitimate options, they'd be out there.  I don't care who is on the depth chart in front of them when the options are as mediocre as they are.

[spitfire418]

Still think ya'll are crazy if you think it's anything other than Brooks, Brown, etc. holding themselves back.  If they were considered legitimate options, they'd be out there.  I don't care who is on the depth chart in front of them when the options are as mediocre as they are.

You can have more than one legitimate option at a position. Having the ability to be a starter is just one of the things the factors into who actually gets the job. Players like Brooks and Brown are young and still developing.

[rmw10]

You can have more than one legitimate option at a position. Having the ability to be a starter is just one of the things the factors into who actually gets the job. Players like Brooks and Brown are young and still developing.

 

I get that.  I'm not saying that they're busts and won't develop in the future, but they aren't on the field because of their own doing, not because of who is in front of them.

[spitfire418]

I get that.  I'm not saying that they're busts and won't develop in the future, but they aren't on the field because of their own doing, not because of who is in front of them.

Yeah we just disagree on the part of why they aren't on the field. I just don't see how a young developing guy like Brooks can start over Lewis who we just signed to be our starter. We wouldn't pay a veteran guy that money and have him count against our comp picks just to bench him for a young guy that could start. For Brown, he looked like he would be our starter next to Daryl Smith after his rookie year or at least get a fair shot to be. Did he not? We ended up drafting Mosley in a higher round and most likely a better player who is also young so how could he start. We weren't going to bench a guy like Daryl or bench our more talented first rounder. We always start our first rounders which really annoys me. Being drafted in the first round doesn't mean you're automatically better than the later round guys. It might seem like that though because they get a chance to show what they can do unlike others.

 

I want to add something about the Brooks situation. I think one of the biggest reasons that we even signed Lewis was because of Brooks' injury and unclear status for the season. Brooks was considered to not even play until Week 6 at the minimum. I really think that if Brooks never got hurt that he would've had the chance to start for us, but that sadly didn't happen.

Edited January 13, 2016 by spitfire418

[Sizzlebshu]

?

I said as soon as we signes him that he was average at best and probably would suck

[spitfire418]

I said as soon as we signes him that he was average at best and probably would suck

Oh ok. I just didn't understand what you said. I wasn't too happy when we signed him either. Felt the same way about Darian Stewart. Although, Stewart seems to be doing good for the Broncos, but he's nothing special.

[BSHU_Miami]

Brooks might actually be able to carve out a role if pees would just simplify the defense.

which is why half of us wanted him gone.

[Cillmatic]

Well, I'm rooting for Brooks 100% right now. This is his last year to take the starting job.

[GrimCoconut]

I think Brooks has a really good shot to be the SS, but I'm not sure where he fits since I expect Webb & Weddle to be the starting safeties. If I had to guess, we will keep Weddle on the field all the time and rotate Webb & Brooks. I suspect there won't be any true FS or SS, but an alternating role between Weddle & Webb. I wonder who controls the secondary, though. I'd assume Weddle since he's the best at it since his time in SD, and even Wright mentioned in that interview how he [Weddle] was the field general out there or something. Then again, Webb knows the defense better than anyone in the secondary since he's the longest tenured. 

I really do like Brooks' chances, though. 

[RavensDieHard21]

Brooks has all of the speed and range, ability to land a hard hit and make tackles, but is struggling to not make bonehead plays and to learn Pees overcomplicated scheme that has been rather ineffective at developing our young players, especially in coverage.

[Maryland]

He's one of those guys who will give me a reason to watch the 4th preseason game lol

No injuries to hinder his start to the season, so I'm hopeful that he takes a big step forward. He just needs to learn a little discipline. We already know he's fast and hits hard.

[jazz1988]

On 1/12/2016 at 5:04 PM, spitfire418 said:

Yeah we just disagree on the part of why they aren't on the field. I just don't see how a young developing guy like Brooks can start over Lewis who we just signed to be our starter. We wouldn't pay a veteran guy that money and have him count against our comp picks just to bench him for a young guy that could start. For Brown, he looked like he would be our starter next to Daryl Smith after his rookie year or at least get a fair shot to be. Did he not? We ended up drafting Mosley in a higher round and most likely a better player who is also young so how could he start. We weren't going to bench a guy like Daryl or bench our more talented first rounder. We always start our first rounders which really annoys me. Being drafted in the first round doesn't mean you're automatically better than the later round guys. It might seem like that though because they get a chance to show what they can do unlike others.

 

I want to add something about the Brooks situation. I think one of the biggest reasons that we even signed Lewis was because of Brooks' injury and unclear status for the season. Brooks was considered to not even play until Week 6 at the minimum. I really think that if Brooks never got hurt that he would've had the chance to start for us, but that sadly didn't happen.

 

The first round pick is usually the highest investment in the draft  so teams are going to  try their best  to get that player to start   right away instead of later . I'm not surprised that Mosley got his opportunity to start right away but through out training camp and etc Brown had the opportunity to shine but didn't.Re-signing Daryl Smith and drafting CJ Mosley could have hurt Arthur Browns confidence but it was telling how The Ravens trusted Zach Orr to step in for Daryl Smith on passing downs instead of him last year.

[spitfire418]

On 3/16/2016 at 5:39 PM, Cillmatic said:

Well, I'm rooting for Brooks 100% right now. This is his last year to take the starting job.

Hopefully he gets a shot to do that this year. He does have another year on his contract though after next season, but he needs to get the starting role ASAP if he's ever going to. He's already 25 going into his 3rd season.

[spitfire418]

On 3/17/2016 at 0:36 AM, RavensDieHard21 said:

Brooks has all of the speed and range, ability to land a hard hit and make tackles, but is struggling to not make bonehead plays and to learn Pees overcomplicated scheme that has been rather ineffective at developing our young players, especially in coverage.

I agree that Pees is affecting part of Brooks' coverage mistakes as well as the other guys in the secondary. Brooks is still learning the position and how to improve his coverage and decision making, but I feel if we had someone better than Pees that he and everyone would improve. I would love to see Brooks at SS where he has less coverage liabilities though.

[spitfire418]

On 3/17/2016 at 1:29 AM, Maryland said:

He's one of those guys who will give me a reason to watch the 4th preseason game lol

No injuries to hinder his start to the season, so I'm hopeful that he takes a big step forward. He just needs to learn a little discipline. We already know he's fast and hits hard.

Yeah he finally is having an off-season where he is healthy. I think it will help his case a lot.

[spitfire418]

On 3/17/2016 at 8:50 AM, jazz1988 said:

 

The first round pick is usually the highest investment in the draft  so teams are going to  try their best  to get that player to start   right away instead of later . I'm not surprised that Mosley got his opportunity to start right away but through out training camp and etc Brown had the opportunity to shine but didn't.Re-signing Daryl Smith and drafting CJ Mosley could have hurt Arthur Browns confidence but it was telling how The Ravens trusted Zach Orr to step in for Daryl Smith on passing downs instead of him last year.

I understand why first round picks usually start. The teams do invest the most in those guys, but I just hate how hard it is on guys who are drafted later and have veterans over them which sort of blocks their chance to start. I know they are young and inexperienced, but a later round draft pick could be just as good as or better than the first round pick. Not saying Brooks is better than Mosley, but I think he's better or can at least do more on the field than Kendrick Lewis.

[Ravensfan23]

8 hours ago, spitfire418 said:

I understand why first round picks usually start. The teams do invest the most in those guys, but I just hate how hard it is on guys who are drafted later and have veterans over them which sort of blocks their chance to start. I know they are young and inexperienced, but a later round draft pick could be just as good as or better than the first round pick. Not saying Brooks is better than Mosley, but I think he's better or can at least do more on the field than Kendrick Lewis.

The Ravens are one of the few teams that give young players a ton of opportunities to develop. From practice to even game play the Ravens throw a lot at their young players and those that can handle it play more. 

Even though their both young players, the  coaches didn't hesitate to play Carl Davis over Timmy last season. If Ngata wasn't traded leaving a leadership void, the Ravens were willing to allow Urban, Guy and KLM to man the 5tech. Under Harbs there is a track record of giving young guys opportunity. 

Brook's issues has been injury related and mental imo. Brooks still had to learn the Safety position overall coming out of FSU. Then to get to Baltimore where Pees asks a ton from his safeties mentally it was a big adjustment for TB and the injury didn't help. I think he'll see the field a lot this year and Waddle will be the perfect guy to take TB under his wing. 

[spitfire418]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

The Ravens are one of the few teams that give young players a ton of opportunities to develop. From practice to even game play the Ravens throw a lot at their young players and those that can handle it play more. 

Even though their both young players, the  coaches didn't hesitate to play Carl Davis over Timmy last season. If Ngata wasn't traded leaving a leadership void, the Ravens were willing to allow Urban, Guy and KLM to man the 5tech. Under Harbs there is a track record of giving young guys opportunity. 

Brook's issues has been injury related and mental imo. Brooks still had to learn the Safety position overall coming out of FSU. Then to get to Baltimore where Pees asks a ton from his safeties mentally it was a big adjustment for TB and the injury didn't help. I think he'll see the field a lot this year and Waddle will be the perfect guy to take TB under his wing. 

I agree with everything you said in the paragraph I bolded. I think Brooks was given a solid opportunity in his rookie year to show what he had at that point in his career and he had his ups and downs. In his decent amount of playing time that year, I believe he made around 20 tackles, a couple pass deflections, a fumble recovery, and obviously that big hit on Delanie Walker. He also made around 2 or 3 "bad" plays that year. The two I can remember were similar and were the plays against the Bengals and the Saints. He was in position on both of them, but once the ball got in the air he didn't make the right decision on the ball. This is why I'm calling them "bad" because he didn't completely blow those plays, but he just couldn't finish them. I think those mistakes he made are very fixable and are part of the mental aspect that you mentioned. Plus I don't see how only making 2 or 3 mistakes as a rookie safety is a that bad of a thing, they are more like learning opportunities. I'm sure he learned from those mistakes he made and hopefully he'll make the play next time in those situations when he gets the chance.

Injuries have probably been the biggest factor of his issues. The injury that happened during his rookie year was a very serious injury. It happened near the end of the season which is good and bad, but he only missed a couple of games because of it that season. I honestly think that injury had more of a negative impact on his second season than his first. He came back remarkably quick from this injury which was awesome, but I don't think he was always 100%. I also think that the injury affected his chances to start last season because he wasn't able to participate in the off-season program and I believe his uncertainty was part of the reason we went out and signed Kendrick Lewis. His thumb injury last season wasn't as bad as the other one, but it also came at the wrong time. Before the injury he was starting to play well and get more playing time game by game. Then what's really unfortunate is that he missed the opportunity to take over the starting role for at least a game and a half where Kendrick Lewis had his minor injury. Brooks has definitely had some bad luck in the injury department. Lets hope that doesn't continue.

Also, I think Eric Weddle could be a great help to Brooks. He's a proven safety in the league and has a similar skill set to Brooks.

Edited March 20, 2016 by spitfire418

[ludy51]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Waddle

Sorry man but the rest of your message just went in one ear and out the other as soon as I read this lol.

[ALPHA]

I like Brooks but he's injury prone and isn't consistent enough to start. 

[spitfire418]

5 hours ago, ALPHA said:

I like Brooks but he's injury prone and isn't consistent enough to start. 

We haven't even seen enough of him to say he's inconsistent. If you read my post above, he really only played safety during his rookie year and only made a couple of mistakes (which are fixable). He's going into his third year now so things may have changed. Hopefully we'll see a new and improved Brooks when he gets on the field.

Edited March 20, 2016 by spitfire418

[Halshayeji]

24 minutes ago, spitfire418 said:

We haven't even seen enough of him to say he's inconsistent. If you read my post above, he really only played safety during his rookie year and only made a couple of mistakes (which are fixable). He's going into his third year now so things may have changed. Hopefully we'll see a new and improved Brooks when he gets on the field.

I agree.

Brooks is not ready to start obviously because injuries have kept him off the field and stalled his development. It surprises me tho that people have forgetten how good he was at FSU and how his measurable were comparable to someone like Ramsey. We were lucky that year's draft was loaded with safeties because Brooks would have gone in the first round last year and maybe this year too if you compare him to the guys coming out now. My question to anyone who is doubting Brooks is this. Show me 5 NFL teams that have a better developing backup than Brooks. 

[gtalk12]

17 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I agree.

Brooks is not ready to start obviously because injuries have kept him off the field and stalled his development. It surprises me tho that people have forgetten how good he was at FSU and how his measurable were comparable to someone like Ramsey. We were lucky that year's draft was loaded with safeties because Brooks would have gone in the first round last year and maybe this year too if you compare him to the guys coming out now. My question to anyone who is doubting Brooks is this. Show me 5 NFL teams that have a better developing backup than Brooks. 

Patience is going to be key with him, the potential is there.....he reminds me of Pollard with more ability

[spitfire418]

55 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I agree.

Brooks is not ready to start obviously because injuries have kept him off the field and stalled his development. It surprises me tho that people have forgetten how good he was at FSU and how his measurable were comparable to someone like Ramsey. We were lucky that year's draft was loaded with safeties because Brooks would have gone in the first round last year and maybe this year too if you compare him to the guys coming out now. My question to anyone who is doubting Brooks is this. Show me 5 NFL teams that have a better developing backup than Brooks. 

Exactly. I'm pretty sure he was actually voted as the fans favorite rookie draft pick that year. He is a special athlete and was a big piece of the defense that won a national championship. People seem to have given up on him to early because of injuries and a couple of learning mistakes. First things first, he needs to stay healthy and then maybe we'll get to see him show his true potential and show why we took him in the 3rd round where he was actually a steal. Also, we have a lot of safety depth on our team. He has some of the highest potential out of the backup safeties in the league and probably would've already got his chance to start on another team.

Edited March 20, 2016 by spitfire418

[spitfire418]

34 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

Patience is going to be key with him, the potential is there.....he reminds me of Pollard with more ability

Yeah some people need to have patience with him and understand that his issues aren't all his fault. I wish he could've came in as a rookie and started right away, but he had to adjust to the NFL and learn a tough defensive scheme as a rookie safety which isn't easy. Plus we had that rotation thing going on during his rookie year which made it hard for him to actually start, but it did give him some opportunities to get on the field.

[gtalk12]

2 hours ago, spitfire418 said:

Yeah some people need to have patience with him and understand that his issues aren't all his fault. I wish he could've came in as a rookie and started right away, but he had to adjust to the NFL and learn a tough defensive scheme as a rookie safety which isn't easy. Plus we had that rotation thing going on during his rookie year which made it hard for him to actually start, but it did give him some opportunities to get on the field.

 

I don't think he should be starting, not yet anyways. Now that Webb and Weddle are back there and with Hill leaving he will get the chance to play more often as long as he is healthy. I don't see why but the end of the year/beginning of next season he isn't starting next to Weddle with Webb as back up S/CB

[spitfire418]

31 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

I don't think he should be starting, not yet anyways. Now that Webb and Weddle are back there and with Hill leaving he will get the chance to play more often as long as he is healthy. I don't see why but the end of the year/beginning of next season he isn't starting next to Weddle with Webb as back up S/CB

He needs to get a starting role soon if he's ever going to. He's going into his third season and is already 25 years old. I'm sure he has a better understanding of Pees defense by now and has improved since the last time we really saw him which was in his rookie year. As long as he stays healthy, I think he needs to get his shot this year.

[Ravensfan23]

I expect Brooks to see plenty of time rotating with Webb at Safety. Having both Webb and Waddle on the back-end will clean up the communication issues that have done in this secondary. Because of that it'll take pressure off a guy like Brooks to play free. He wasn't asked to do much in the form of calling the defense last year and I thought it allowed him to play more freely, however Hill and Lewis really failed our DBs in terms of communication and covering for others. I thought he clearly got better last season but definitely needed a guy like Waddle to QB the secondary for him and allow him to play around the LOS more. 

I think Brooks will excel in that 3rd safety role for much of the season and really start to push Webb for that starting S spot. Brooks, Waddle and Webb are all interchangeable imo and that will give Pees plenty of flexibility. I'm really interested in seeing both Brooks and Elam develop behind to very competent guys in Waddle and Webb. 

[spitfire418]

1 minute ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I expect Brooks to see plenty of time rotating with Webb at Safety. Having both Webb and Waddle on the back-end will clean up the communication issues that have done in this secondary. Because of that it'll take pressure off a guy like Brooks to play free. He wasn't asked to do much in the form of calling the defense last year and I thought it allowed him to play more freely, however Hill and Lewis really failed our DBs in terms of communication and covering for others. I thought he clearly got better last season but definitely needed a guy like Waddle to QB the secondary for him and allow him to play around the LOS more. 

I think Brooks will excel in that 3rd safety role for much of the season and really start to push Webb for that starting S spot. Brooks, Waddle and Webb are all interchangeable imo and that will give Pees plenty of flexibility. I'm really interested in seeing both Brooks and Elam develop behind to very competent guys in Waddle and Webb. 

I agree with this.

Obviously Webb and Weddle are our starters going into the season, but how much do you see the backups getting in? Right now we have Lewis, Brooks, Elam, and Levine as backups and we might add a rookie on top of that too. As you all know, I think Lewis needs to be cut and Levine is basically just a special teams guy and backup if you really need him. Hopefully we end up with Brooks and Elam as the primary backups at safety and a mid to late round rookie in the mix as well. I love the safeties in the draft class this year. 3 mid to late round guys that we should target are Tyvis Powell, Sean Davis, and T.J. Green. I think all of these guys have potential to be steals in the draft and they are all athletic and big which we don't really have right now at safety.

[Ravensfan23]

10 minutes ago, spitfire418 said:

I agree with this.

Obviously Webb and Weddle are our starters going into the season, but how much do you see the backups getting in? Right now we have Lewis, Brooks, Elam, and Levine as backups and we might add a rookie on top of that too. As you all know, I think Lewis needs to be cut and Levine is basically just a special teams guy and backup if you really need him. Hopefully we end up with Brooks and Elam as the primary backups at safety and a mid to late round rookie in the mix as well. I love the safeties in the draft class this year. 3 mid to late round guys that we should target are Tyvis Powell, Sean Davis, and T.J. Green. I think all of these guys have potential to be steals in the draft and they are all athletic and big which we don't really have right now at safety.

I see the primary backup safety playing a ton. The guy will be used as a rover type in sub packages playing around the LOS. Blitzing, spying, covering check down options and being an enforcer with big hits.

I too think Lewis may be cut especially if a Safety is drafted. The safety position was upgraded but it also got old. Neither Webb nor Waddle are long term options. So it'll be important for guys like Brooks to develop and I could definitely see a mid to late round Safety being drafted especially if someone drops to that 4th round.