The good, bad and ugly vs Bengals

[52N19]

I rewatched the game last night and it seems like we do not jam receivers at the LOS. We have no way of stopping a 3rd and short regardless of our pass rush because the receiver goes off the line for 5 yards and the qb throws the ball to him before he turns around. its impossible to stop 3rd and short the way we defend receivers.

 

forsett may be a one year wonder. he is quick and can find the whole but he doesn't run through tackles. if you get a hand on him he is going down.

 

I didn't see much from #97.

[BSHU_Miami]

Where you see or hear that at?

After the MNF game Him, Dilfer, Steve Young were talking about how nobody plays defense anymore and Ray singled out the Ravens game as his example

[Guest]

I personally miss McPhee more than Ngata. McPhee hasn't been playing as good in Chicago as I thought he was, but man he would be needed and relied upon heavily right now. Not to knock on Upshaw but he's not a pass rusher, but McPhee is sorely missed right now. 

 

You have to remember McPhee is playing for a pretty horrible team.  A team that is 0-3, just got shutout. Has no offense to give it's defense breathers and just changed schemes from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

 

Despite all that he had 6 tackles and an assist vs the Seahawks and 2 sacks and darn near a 3rd.  As well as a good game vs the Packers.

 

With Sugg's absence we miss McPhee like the desert misses the rain.

[rmcjacket23]

You have to remember McPhee is playing for a pretty horrible team.  A team that is 0-3, just got shutout. Has no offense to give it's defense breathers and just changed schemes from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

 

Despite all that he had 6 tackles and an assist vs the Seahawks and 2 sacks and darn near a 3rd.  As well as a good game vs the Packers.

 

With Sugg's absence we miss McPhee like the desert misses the rain.

Both the Ravens and the Bears now run a 3-4. There was no scheme change. He was brought into Chicago specifically because he fit the mold of a prototype 3-4 OLB.

 

In general, he didn't do much in his first two games, which multiple of my Bears fans made sure to point out.

 

He will surely be missed, but there's no way you can pay almost $8M a year for a pass rushing insurance policy.

Edited September 29, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[izvoodoo]

Both the Ravens and the Bears now run a 3-4. There was no scheme change. He was brought into Chicago specifically because he fit the mold of a prototype 3-4 OLB.

 

In general, he didn't do much in his first two games, which multiple of my Bears fans made sure to point out.

 

He will surely be missed, but there's no way you can pay almost $8M a year for a pass rushing insurance policy.

Losing 3 of our best front 7 players is really hurting us though.  

[rmcjacket23]

Losing 3 of our best front 7 players is really hurting us though.  

Sure. One was unexpected, one was more or less planned for, and the other guy (McPhee) was still largely just a role player.

[GrimCoconut]

McPhee still sucks and I felt like the pressure would decrease from last year. It's not likely you can maintain that pressure when you lose a big part of it (McPhee) & use a rookie to replace him drafted in the fourth round.

No offense to Smith, but it's clear he needs work.

Having McPhee would've been great against the Bengals but I don't know how much it would've helped.

Edited September 29, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[redrum52]

McPhee still sucks and I felt like the pressure would decrease from last year. It's not likely you can maintain that pressure when you lose a big part of it (McPhee) & use a rookie to replace him drafted in the fourth round.

No offense to Smith, but it's clear he needs work.

Having McPhee would've been great against the Bengals but I don't know how much it would've helped.

Smith wasn't supposed to see the field as much as he is.

Who knows how he can develop now with extra reps and experience.

Edited September 29, 2015 by redrum52

[Guest]

Both the Ravens and the Bears now run a 3-4. There was no scheme change. Oh yes there was. You see I'm from Chicago and I know.  The Chicago Bears changed schemes, not Pernell McPhee. The Bears were a 4-3 team and when personnel are asked to adjust to a new scheme I'm certain you will agree there is a certain amount of transition woes.  When a team has transition woes it does not initially perform up to prior levels as our Ravens are illustrating. Yet despite this, McPhee has been producing, yet within a squad in flux. (Kind of like Steve Smith) He was brought into Chicago specifically because he fit the mold of a prototype 3-4 OLB. I wont dispute that latter point but can't verify it either. I will neither confirm nor deny.

 

In general, he didn't do much in his first two games, which multiple of my Bears fans made sure to point out. Maybe they weren't observant fans because McPhee did have a decent first game and  in the Seahawks game was a Tour de Force! The Cardinals made everyone look less effective, but we get to find about that.

 

He will surely be missed, but there's no way you can pay almost $8M a year for a pass rushing insurance policy. Not so sure about that either, where there is a insightful will there is a way.  We made the decision that Suggs could play well late into games.  

[jimmypowder]

if we loose thursday its a wrap.

Yes indeed. Losing to the Squeelers playing Vick as Qb would be a most embarrassing loss.  

[-Truth-]

Both the Ravens and the Bears now run a 3-4. There was no scheme change. He was brought into Chicago specifically because he fit the mold of a prototype 3-4 OLB.

 

In general, he didn't do much in his first two games, which multiple of my Bears fans made sure to point out.

 

He will surely be missed, but there's no way you can pay almost $8M a year for a pass rushing insurance policy.

 

Just here to comment on his performance thus far, but I can't fully agree with the assessment of the aforementioned Bears' fans, at least of his second game. I make a habit of combing through games and certain players via the NFL Game Pass and I came away with a different impression when watching his tape from week 2. He wasn't on the field as much as I expected, just 39 plays overall, but he still had several impressive-to-dominant plays. Of the ones that come to mind, he blew by Ted Larsen for a hit on Carson Palmer. He drove Darren Fells two yards behind the LOS and stopped Chris Johnson for no gain on a solo tackle. He went for a speed rush outside against Earl Watford on a B-gap run to his side and was still able to bring down David Johnson for no gain. He set the edge after initially being double teamed by both Larry Fitzgerald and Fells and then assisted in the TFL of Chris Johnson. He was mainly matched up against Watford in the passing game and McPhee got by him on several occasions. The statistics seem to back that up as he came away with 3 QB hits and 4 pressures, tying for the most overall pressure at his position that week at his position. This was impressive because he rushed the QB just 18 times, which was by far one of the lowest among the group. He's currently the most productive pass rusher on a per snap basis among 3-4 OLBs and within the Top 5 in run stops, so I wouldn't consider the Seattle game to be an anomaly. I do agree that $8 million isn't chump change for an insurance policy, but I have to give him his due in that he's looking to be a good signing for Chicago. He's been arguably their best defender from what I've seen to this point.

Edited September 29, 2015 by -Truth-

[jimmypowder]

Would you rather have Smith,Aiken,and Marlon at Receiver or

 

Smith,Torrey & Jacoby(yes even with his poor last season) 

 

I dare Mcjacket,GrimCoconut or anyone else to tell me they prefer 

what we have right now!

Edited September 29, 2015 by jimmypowder

[GrimCoconut]

Would you rather have Smith,Aiken,and Marlon at Receiver or

Smith,Torrey & Jacoby(yes even with his poor last season)

I dare Mcjacket,GrimCoconut or anyone else to tell me they prefer

what we have right now!

I'd certainly like to have Torrey here right now. I was never one to hate on him.

 

Edit: I hate auto-correct.

Edited September 29, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[rmcjacket23]

 

Both the Ravens and the Bears now run a 3-4. There was no scheme change. Oh yes there was. You see I'm from Chicago and I know.  The Chicago Bears changed schemes, not Pernell McPhee. The Bears were a 4-3 team and when personnel are asked to adjust to a new scheme I'm certain you will agree there is a certain amount of transition woes.  When a team has transition woes it does not initially perform up to prior levels as our Ravens are illustrating. Yet despite this, McPhee has been producing, yet within a squad in flux. (Kind of like Steve Smith) He was brought into Chicago specifically because he fit the mold of a prototype 3-4 OLB. I wont dispute that latter point but can't verify it either. I will neither confirm nor deny.

 

In general, he didn't do much in his first two games, which multiple of my Bears fans made sure to point out. Maybe they weren't observant fans because McPhee did have a decent first game and  in the Seahawks game was a Tour de Force! The Cardinals made everyone look less effective, but we get to find about that.

 

He will surely be missed, but there's no way you can pay almost $8M a year for a pass rushing insurance policy. Not so sure about that either, where there is a insightful will there is a way.  We made the decision that Suggs could play well late into games.  

 

1. OK, but you basically just agreed with me. Do they or do they not play a 3-4 defense? They do, and targeting a guy like McPhee was specific to the switch to that scheme. I'm not questioning whether they're struggling with the scheme or whether they have the right personnel for the scheme, because they don't appear to. But I'd probably go out on a limb and say McPhee isn't a Bear if they still played a 4-3. McPhee is playing in a very similar system to what he was playing in with the Ravens, just with simply not as talented players AND he's expected to be the Elvis Dumervil of that team, a role he has no experience in so far in his young career.

 

2. The "insightful will" thing is great and all, but it doesn't hold any weight in a salary cap era. You spend $8M on a pass rushing insurance policy, and it costs you $8M worth of player or players elsewhere. That's how the salary cap works. What that tradeoff would have been we have no clue, but it would have been something significant most likely. 

[izvoodoo]

I'd certainly like to have Torrey here right now. I was never one time hate on him.

Yeah, the hatred was totally misplaced.  He was a solid NFL receiver and had game breaking speed.  We just got outbid for him.  

[SomeCreepinaVan]

We should sign Pollard. I bet he would give us some bite in the secondary and energy. He did help us win a superbowl. Would have loved to seen him put a big hit on the Bengals.

Edited September 30, 2015 by SomeCreepinaVan

[Dr. Kelley]

Yeah, the hatred was totally misplaced. He was a solid NFL receiver and had game breaking speed. We just got outbid for him.

Yeah but he wanted #1 reciever money, though, which we were not in a position to give for just a solid reciever.

[wizard1]

Yeah, the hatred was totally misplaced.  He was a solid NFL receiver and had game breaking speed.  We just got outbid for him.  

We didn't get outbid for Torrey Smith. We could have offered him a lucrative structured deal. Just like Ngata.The sad fact is they got outta dodge with the quickness. We don't offer lucrative contracts to people who aren't named Ray Rice or Joe Flacco. Thankfully Rice is gonna drop off soon which will free up an additional 6 mil or so.

[ratedr]

We didn't get outbid for Torrey Smith. We could have offered him a lucrative structured deal. Just like Ngata.The sad fact is they got outta dodge with the quickness. We don't offer lucrative contracts to people who aren't named Ray Rice or Joe Flacco. Thankfully Rice is gonna drop off soon which will free up an additional 6 mil or so.

I like Ngata but last I checked the Lions are 0-3 too...

 

And the Niners offense is hooooot garbage despite Torrey having Boldin and Davis alongside him. I would've been okay with Torrey for a small deal but not for what the Niners gave him.

 

But if the FO knew they wouldn't resign Torrey they shouldn't have waited until 2015 to finally draft a potential replacement. And now that it turns out that that replacement has the durability of a wet paper towel there's no backup plan. They could've easily gotten a guy in FA like Crabtree or Britt too but they decided to "trust the young guys" because they apparently learned nothing from the "Doss will replace Boldin" experiment.

Edited September 30, 2015 by ratedr

[wizard1]

I agree with you-tons of experiments that just didn't work. We could have put together a really good receiving group for a relatively small amount of $$$ . How would this sound--Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Hakeem Nicks and Michael Crabtree could have been put together for a paltry sum by NFL standards. All have at least 1 more year in them and together with SSS they catch footballs!!  and our offense would be relevant. Total cost around 5 mil .

[usmccharles]

.

 

But if the FO knew they wouldn't resign Torrey they shouldn't have waited until 2015 to finally draft a potential replacement. And now that it turns out that that replacement has the durability of a wet paper towel there's no backup plan. They could've easily gotten a guy in FA like Crabtree or Britt too but they decided to "trust the young guys" because they apparently learned nothing from the "Doss will replace Boldin" experiment.

This.  You dont draft a replacement when you need them.  How come our FO cant use the same logic as they do on the defense side of the ball, by drafting replacements earlier than 3 months out when you need them to step up.  I was an advocate on bringing Crabtree in, looks like that would have been a great signing for us. 

 

I agree with you-tons of experiments that just didn't work. We could have put together a really good receiving group for a relatively small amount of $$$ . How would this sound--Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Hakeem Nicks and Michael Crabtree could have been put together for a paltry sum by NFL standards. All have at least 1 more year in them and together with SSS they catch footballs!!  and our offense would be relevant. Total cost around 5 mil .

No idea how that would of turned out, but it couldnt have been any worse than what we have now thats for sure.  Since the FO didnt bring in any WRs at all, other than BP, it shows that they have/had complete confidence  in Brown, Camp, Aiken: they need to think about about replacing who ever is in charge of the wr department and bring in someone with a track record.  It seems like every team has hit on late round wrs other than us. 

[ratedr]

Aiken, Brown, and Camp must have been camp superstars. With our secondary, easy to see why.

[Static]

Aiken, Brown, and Camp must have been camp superstars. With our secondary, easy to see why.

Wow that's a sad thought.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I agree with you-tons of experiments that just didn't work. We could have put together a really good receiving group for a relatively small amount of $$$ . How would this sound--Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Hakeem Nicks and Michael Crabtree could have been put together for a paltry sum by NFL standards. All have at least 1 more year in them and together with SSS they catch footballs!! and our offense would be relevant. Total cost around 5 mil .

Welker, Wayne and Nicks are all done. I don't know that they'd be much worse than what we currently have, but certainly not upgrades. There are other teams with issues at WR - there's a reason Welker just got his 1st call from the Giants and Reggie Wayne was cut by the Pats.

Nicks - that's a joke. And Crabtree, outside of playing us has done nothing more than our current guys.

So pay $5 mill for exactly what you're already getting?? At least Aiken, Brown, Camp, Waller, and Perriman may (though doubtful in the cases of Aiken and Brown) develop into something better.

All the guys you listed are equal to or worse than our guys in their current state and are all trending downward. The once exception is MAYBE Crabtree. He's the only one I would even consider an potential upgrade... And if he is it's only by a hair.

I'm sure Aiken and Brown could go off for 100 yds against the likes of Webb and Arrington with the way they've played. I mean they've always looked good in practice - it's just when they face other secondaries that can actually cover they have trouble.

Crabtree has done the same, balled out against Webb and company, and has like 3-4 catches for for 30-40 yards from the other 2 games combined.

Improved name recognition doesn't mean improved play. 2 aren't on a roster currently and the 2 that are haven't done anything this season.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

This. You dont draft a replacement when you need them. How come our FO cant use the same logic as they do on the defense side of the ball, by drafting replacements earlier than 3 months out when you need them to step up. I was an advocate on bringing Crabtree in, looks like that would have been a great signing for us.

No idea how that would of turned out, but it couldnt have been any worse than what we have now thats for sure. Since the FO didnt bring in any WRs at all, other than BP, it shows that they have/had complete confidence in Brown, Camp, Aiken: they need to think about about replacing who ever is in charge of the wr department and bring in someone with a track record. It seems like every team has hit on late round wrs other than us.

I don't think other teams are hitting on late round WRs at a higher rate than us. Sure there are exceptions like the Steelers...

But I think it's just perception. The difference is those other teams late round WRs are only being called on as 4th and 5th option so they have much easier and more favorable matchups.

Our late round picks are being called on as go to options in the passing game. If Aiken or Brown were a 4th/5th type guy behind 2-3 quality receivers they would both be effective.

Unfortunately we have no production at WR outside SSS, so it's easy to completely shut down our late round UDFA receivers. They are focal points where most of the "successful" guys you're seeing on other teams are after thoughts for the defense.

[usmccharles]

I don't think other teams are hitting on late round WRs at a higher rate than us. Sure there are exceptions like the Steelers...

But I think it's just perception. The difference is those other teams late round WRs are only being called on as 4th and 5th option so they have much easier and more favorable matchups.

Our late round picks are being called on as go to options in the passing game. If Aiken or Brown were a 4th/5th type guy behind 2-3 quality receivers they would both be effective.

Unfortunately we have no production at WR outside SSS, so it's easy to completely shut down our late round UDFA receivers. They are focal points where most of the "successful" guys you're seeing on other teams are after thoughts for the defense.

I get what your saying, but it just seems like any of those guys would be better than our number two.  I wont count first rounders but just to name some recent guys that look way better

 

john brown - 2nd

donte moncief - 3nd

allen robinson - 3rd

keenen allen - 3rd

hilton - 3rd

marvin jones - 5th

randal cob - 2nd *6 spots after torrey*

emanuel sanders - 3rd

eric decker 3rd

mike wallace 3rd

julian edlemen 7th

 

I didnt name a lot of players.  I guess for us to have one on there isnt that bad.  To win you have to play the game, and hardly ever drafting wrs in 2nd or 3rd obviously cuts back on your success rate.  just saying

[January J]

I get what your saying, but it just seems like any of those guys would be better than our number two.  I wont count first rounders but just to name some recent guys that look way better

 

john brown - 2nd

donte moncief - 3nd

allen robinson - 3rd

keenen allen - 3rd

hilton - 3rd

marvin jones - 5th

randal cob - 2nd *6 spots after torrey*

emanuel sanders - 3rd

eric decker 3rd

mike wallace 3rd

julian edlemen 7th

 

I didnt name a lot of players.  I guess for us to have one on there isnt that bad.  To win you have to play the game, and hardly ever drafting wrs in 2nd or 3rd obviously cuts back on your success rate.  just saying

wasn't Antonio brown a 5th or 6th rounder? Really makes you wonder.

[Purple_City39]

wasn't Antonio brown a 5th or 6th rounder? Really makes you wonder.

Yeah, he was a 6th rounder.  We're a team that doesn't like to give chances to WRs drafted in the 5th or later it seems

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah, he was a 6th rounder.  We're a team that doesn't like to give chances to WRs drafted in the 5th or later it seems

EARN chances, not give chances. This is football, not a charity.

 

Here's the dirty little secret nobody wants to admit... Antonio Brown outplayed a lot of the guys ahead of him to get to where he is.

[jazz1988]

I like Ngata but last I checked the Lions are 0-3 too...

 

And the Niners offense is hooooot garbage despite Torrey having Boldin and Davis alongside him. I would've been okay with Torrey for a small deal but not for what the Niners gave him.

 

But if the FO knew they wouldn't resign Torrey they shouldn't have waited until 2015 to finally draft a potential replacement. And now that it turns out that that replacement has the durability of a wet paper towel there's no backup plan. They could've easily gotten a guy in FA like Crabtree or Britt too but they decided to "trust the young guys" because they apparently learned nothing from the "Doss will replace Boldin" experiment.

 

I don't think the front office knew they wouldn't be able to re-sign Torrey until after they had to cut Ray Rice which was during the regular season of 2014. It was even mention that a offer was given to  Torrey which was more than what he probably was worth but he turned it down. If The Ray Rice wasn't cut then I think The Ravens would have had better chance to re-sign Torrey or maybe trade for veteran receiver.