The good, bad and ugly vs Bengals

[rmcjacket23]

He was a quiet guy, but still a leader. And I still think Williams will pan out, but it seems the team of Jernigan and Williams haven't been able to fill the hole yet. Hopefully that happens soon. Totally agree on Graham. He was one of those under appreciated contributors that were thought to be replaceable, but that hasn't happened.

Have no issue with Williams so far... he's been doing what he's been expected to do. 

 

It was always unreasonable for people to think Jernigan would replace Ngata's production by himself. I never expected it for a moment. 

 

The way our current system is designed and largely has been designed for many years now, the front 3 are space eaters. While I want Jernigan to push the pile backwards like everybody else does, that's really not his job. 

 

What the problem NOW is, obviously, the loss of Suggs means we have no quality second outside rusher, making things harder for Dumervil and harder for the defense as a whole. 

 

I have no issue with how our defensive line has played for the most part. 

[rmcjacket23]

If you're writin', you're wrong!   Just kiddin'.......lol

Well, it was mostly a rhetorical proof.

 

I don't actually expect a comeback with valid reasons for why I'm wrong. That rarely happens.

[GrimCoconut]

He was a quiet guy, but still a leader. And I still think Williams will pan out, but it seems the team of Jernigan and Williams haven't been able to fill the hole yet. Hopefully that happens soon. Totally agree on Graham. He was one of those under appreciated contributors that were thought to be replaceable, but that hasn't happened.

Yeah, I honestly believe part of Dean Pees' problem is he's lost his defensive locker room. I don't think the players completely trust him. I feel that maybe if Ngata was here and on the field (or Suggs) that it would be a different story. The guys (defense) all look up to those old veterans, but there's nobody like that on the defensive side of the ball atm. We're missing that leadership. That's why I want Pees gone and that's why I feel like we lost this game against the Bengals. 

 

FWIW, I think the defense played better than given credit and I do think Pees' hands are tied to an extent. He's in a lose-lose situation. That's why I want him gone. It's not that I hate him or I irrationally decided he's a waste because the defense lost games. No, it's because we're continuing the same problems that aren't fixed and the personnel (players) don't seem to be executing the system (Pees') that they should be. There's only so many reasons for this, but the likeliest I see is that the players don't trust him (Pees). If that's the case, then he absolutely must go. 

 

I also hate his off-man coverage and the zone coverage he calls when we can't even tackle, but that's another story. 

[Militant X 1]

Have no issue with Williams so far... he's been doing what he's been expected to do. 

 

It was always unreasonable for people to think Jernigan would replace Ngata's production by himself. I never expected it for a moment. 

 

The way our current system is designed and largely has been designed for many years now, the front 3 are space eaters. While I want Jernigan to push the pile backwards like everybody else does, that's really not his job. 

 

What the problem NOW is, obviously, the loss of Suggs means we have no quality second outside rusher, making things harder for Dumervil and harder for the defense as a whole. 

 

I have no issue with how our defensive line has played for the most part. 

 

Great point!

[Tank 92]

Well, it was mostly a rhetorical proof.

 

I don't actually expect a comeback with valid reasons for why I'm wrong. That rarely happens.

 

 

well, since you asked.......Speed at the WR position, regardless if deep passes are actually completed, must be respected and opens up the routes for others underneath. Not having a deep threat, regardless of the level of talent, shrinks the play book.

[Tank 92]

Yeah, I honestly believe part of Dean Pees' problem is he's lost his defensive locker room. I don't think the players completely trust him. I feel that maybe if Ngata was here and on the field (or Suggs) that it would be a different story. The guys (defense) all look up to those old veterans, but there's nobody like that on the defensive side of the ball atm. We're missing that leadership. That's why I want Pees gone and that's why I feel like we lost this game against the Bengals. 

 

FWIW, I think the defense played better than given credit and I do think Pees' hands are tied to an extent. He's in a lose-lose situation. That's why I want him gone. It's not that I hate him or I irrationally decided he's a waste because the defense lost games. No, it's because we're continuing the same problems that aren't fixed and the personnel (players) don't seem to be executing the system (Pees') that they should be. There's only so many reasons for this, but the likeliest I see is that the players don't trust him (Pees). If that's the case, then he absolutely must go. 

 

I also hate his off-man coverage and the zone coverage he calls when we can't even tackle, but that's another story. 

 

 

Agree. It may end up that he will need to go just for the sake of change.  And his schemes do place huge emphasis on the ability to tackle after the catch.  But dag! Isn't tackling a football fundamental?   lol

[flynismo]

He could hit back in the day . I'm not talking about bringing him in lol .

This defense has no hard hitting thumpers . Mosley to a certain extent . That's it .

I agree with this. Not because I think players are scared to get hit, but it is the mentality, and controlled aggression that comes with it that we are sorely lacking. Our defense just isn't tough anymore... no Ray, no Ngata, nobody really really hits with authority anymore. It could be because they are focused on the terrible mechanics that resulted in so many missed tackles the past few years....I don't know. All I know is, we need to be the bullies again

[rmcjacket23]

well, since you asked.......Speed at the WR position, regardless if deep passes are actually completed, must be respected and opens up the routes for others underneath. Not having a deep threat, regardless of the level of talent, shrinks the play book.

But he was never on the field to begin with. Teams don't respect speed that is sitting on the sidelines. And there's a reason he's on the sidelines...

 

We're talking about Jacoby here, not Torrey Smith. Torrey Smith was at least a threat to catch the ball in most places on the field. Jacoby hasn't been that for several years now.

 

What indication, at any point in time between the end of last season and the beginning of this one, was there ever anything that said that the franchise was considering giving Jacoby more offensive snaps?

[Tank 92]

But he was never on the field to begin with. Teams don't respect speed that is sitting on the sidelines. And there's a reason he's on the sidelines...

 

We're talking about Jacoby here, not Torrey Smith. Torrey Smith was at least a threat to catch the ball in most places on the field. Jacoby hasn't been that for several years now.

 

What indication, at any point in time between the end of last season and the beginning of this one, was there ever anything that said that the franchise was considering giving Jacoby more offensive snaps?

 

 

I'm not saying we made a mistake letting him go because there was no way of knowing we would be in this predicament. But dime to a dollar, he wouldn't be on the sideline now considering the slow, plodding group we are fielding. 

[PurpleCity5]

Ngata was a tough loss and I wonder if we miss him here at the moment. He was always a quiet guy, and you know I felt like he'd be gone, but I must admit losing Suggs makes me wonder if Ngata would've stepped up here. We'll never know. 

 

Corey Graham is the guy that got away for me. I'm still salty he left. He was a critical loss. 

Tell me about it, that one hurts hard. 

[PurpleCity5]

Can we stop treating AJ Green like some scrub reciever ? Seriously, this is getting old.

+1

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I feel like we're beating a dead horse and its all been said.

GOOD --- Offense's passing game - 13 catches by SSS was a team record

BAD --- Offense's running game - 36 yards in 13 carries by Justin Forsett and a lackluster

performance from Taliferro

UGLY --- Defense's passing yards allowed - Career day for Andy Dalton 383 yards & 225 to A.J. Green - Penalties reared their ugly head again and I must say most if not all of the penalties

called against us were legit.

For three weeks and counting, our team has been competitive but has not been able to get off the

field. Against Peyton, he directed the longest drive of his career that lasted over 10

minutes. Against Oakland and Cincy, we surrendered leads late in the game. Our offense has not been

able to put the ball into the end zone when the game was on the line. In game one, the offense played poorly. In game two, the defense played poorly. In game three, both the offense and the defense

played poorly. The offense played poorly in the 1st half and the defense played poorly in all but the third quarter.

[Guest]

Jacoby may have already won us a game with some crazy return . He did have good vision on returns . It seems to me The Front Office has made some poor judgments in past couple of seasons .

 

It's catching.

 

Still, we can turn this around with a few breaks. 9-7 could get in with a little luck. The Cheats look to run off again and why not, no one will hold them accountable.  The Bengals look like too much for our division especially after Big Has Ben's injury.

 

The AFC South leader is only 1 game ahead of us. The AFC West doesn't look especially good, but we are already handicapped in Head to Head with Oakland.

 

Get the guys on the field that can help us and I think we have a shot to get decimated in the playoffs, but we have to begin playing some semblance of ball Thursday.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Danny D

[Guest]

Think about it, what are the differences from last year in personnel ? Torrey, Jacoby , Ngata and a few others . Speed and a run stuffer . I will say we miss Ngata the least and some speed the most . Not a lot of change if you think about it . Yet here we are 0-3 . The biggest and most detrimental change was losing Kubiak .

 

Don't forget McPhee. He played lights out yesterday for a poor Bears team.  I do agree losing Kubiak hurt.

I have to disagree about missing Haloti. I think you are undervaluing what his quiet leadership meant to the D. With Sizzle out it would mean tons if he were still the anchor on the D line.

Kubes? While not stellar, the offense did enough to win.

Edit. In hindsight it would have been smart to keep Jacoby for the $2 mil.. But who knew we would be where we are with the WRs.

 

I'd have kept Jacoby strictly upon the Kubiak Doghouse angle. Jacoby fell out of favor in Houston with Kubiak the Coach. Lo and Behold he found the Doghouse here with Kubiak OC.

 

Anyone could look at our pending WR roster and see we needed some continuity.  Well, almost anyone. Our Front Office seriously believes Flacco can win with High School Sophomores.

 

Ngata was a terrible loss. We didn't give up a lot of rushing yards to the Bengals, but Ngata required attention that left others open to rush. 

 

Like I said, I do believe its mathematically possible. I remember back in either 2011 or 2012 when Cincinnati was 3 games behind and they closed it up to tie. I think we won on tiebreakers.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Anyone see the PFF numbers for the Bengals game. I'm curious just how bad J Smith, Jernigan and Lewis scored.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Danny D

[BSHU_Miami]

Ray Lewis just called our defense out for our 10 yards off coverage

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I know no one wants to hear this, but there are positives to take away from the 1st three weeks.

Yes we're in a hole. The odds of starting the season 0-3 and making the playoffs aren't good.

BUT - first off, that's the wrong way to look at the chances. More accurately, our chances would be reflected by the number of teams that had a 3 game losing streak at any point during their season and went on to the playoffs.

As I was kindly reminded by rmcjacket - in 2012 we had such a losing streak and even lost 4 of 5. It can be over come, and even end in triumph.

And while it's tough to swallow the 0-3 start... Try to look at it this way:

I think we'd all agree that we've played about as poorly as possible. Missed tackles, blown coverages, poor matchups, bad play calling, misguided decision making, bad throws, dropped passes, stupid penalties in key situations, no consistency, and overall just very poor play by mostly everyone involved....

YET with all that accounted for, we've been in position to win all 3 games. Because of the previous lengthy list of negatives, we've failed to do so; but in every single game 1 play here, a stop there and we could just as easily be 3-0 with terrible performances.

And that's with 2 of those games coming against legitimate AFC title contenders.

So if at our absolute worst we're still good enough to be within a play or 2 of beating "the best" then we still have a shot to right this ship.

We always knew the beginning would be tough. Getting into the bye at .500 was always the goal in my mind. And it's how we're playing in December, January, February that counts. Granted you've got to make the playoffs to have a chance, but again while the road is much tougher it's not out of the question.

Especially considering our worst fathomable play quite nearly had us sitting 3-0.... If this team can pull it together and even play DECENT consistently then we absolutely can rattle off 5,6 straight.

If our worst hangs with 2 of the best, our average to best can absolutely do this.

We can't play our absolute worst a whole season can we?

This isn't over folks. Ravens fans... Unite, put the last 3 weeks behind us and let's get ready to turn this thing around. Let's do our job in making M&T impossible to play in, and maybe sparking some belief in this team and this town.

We've waited all offseason for football, let's not give in after just 3 weeks. There's another 14 to go, 13 games, and we need to win at least 9... Maybe 10 of them.

And if the crap we've shown so far should've beat Denver and Cinci, there's no reason if we can improve to decent play if not good that we can't run the table or win enough to still make this happen.

Believe.

Believe.

If you can't find a reason to, how about this... What's the point of being a fan of a team if you don't believe that you're going to win. Our backs are up against the wall; no one believes in us and people are starting to pencil ravens week in as a W! This is what being a Raven is all about. Believing when no one else does. Being a fan of Baltimore football even when there wasn't a team anymore, or now when the team is playing like there isn't one.

Let's do this.

[ravensdfan]

Ray Lewis just called our defense out for our 10 yards off coverage

Well apparently Ray Lewis is clueless because we keep getting told by the Experts of the Forum that we exaggerate and it isn't that bad and that isn't the problem.

[jazz1988]

Ray Lewis just called our defense out for our 10 yards off coverage

 

Where you see or hear that at?

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not saying we made a mistake letting him go because there was no way of knowing we would be in this predicament. But dime to a dollar, he wouldn't be on the sideline now considering the slow, plodding group we are fielding. 

Why wouldn't he be though? He was playing behind the same slow, plodding group that we put on the field last season.

 

Just because Torrey is gone doesn't mean Jacoby would have been playing more on offense.

[rmcjacket23]

Where you see or hear that at?

Pregame for Monday night football.

 

He actually said across the board in the NFL he's never seen so many WRs running so wide open throughout the league. He basically said that if he were playing he'd advise the Ravens to start hitting people and start being more physical.

[redrum52]

It's funny how now people will listen to what media say. When Flacco's ranked 20th on a list of qbs, no one cares what they have to say then, but now their word is gospel. Wasn't it juse a year or 2 ago, people cursed Ray out for something he said about the team, on MNF?

[Tru11]

It's funny how now people will listen to what media say. When Flacco's ranked 20th on a list of qbs, no one cares what they have to say then, but now their word is gospel. Wasn't it juse a year or 2 ago, people cursed Ray out for something he said about the team, on MNF?

 

yup.

 

and they still cant understand that its up the to CBs to decide how much space they give the receiver.

 

the DC calls the plays, he does not tell every CB individually before each play how much space they should give the receiver.

[redrum52]

yup.

and they still cant understand that its up the to CBs to decide how much space they give the receiver.

the DC calls the plays, he does not tell every CB individually before each play how much space they should give the receiver.

Didn't Jimmy say he gets to choose his spacing, or something like that in pre season or off season? Obviously, for certain plays, it will be press or off all across, but I thought they had some input.

[Tru11]

Didn't Jimmy say he gets to choose his spacing, or something like that in pre season or off season? Obviously, for certain plays, it will be press or off all across, but I thought they had some input.

 

it should be common knowledge that unless its a designated play , defenders are free to decide how they align on defense.

 

or to be more specific every defense has a LBer and secondary player who is responsible that everyone is alligned properly.

 

the DC loses communication before they break the huddle , so its up to the players to allign properly to what the offense shows.

 

if hill is the guy and he says he has coverage over the top , he can then instruct or recommend the CB to play closer or press for instance.

ultimately is the corner own responsibility cause whatever he does his only job is to not get beat.

how he wants to do it is up to him lol.

 

If the TE changes sides its mosley/smith job to instruct upshaw to move to that cause he is the strongside LB or stay put and instruct the dline to [profanity deleted] to that side.

 

those pre snap allingments are all on the players and whoever is made the guy to make the call outs.

 

we where just blessed we had ray and ed for years who did a great job lining people up.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Pipe Dream .

Not neccessarily unless you believe the Steelers, Browns and Bengals will run through non-conference opponents on their schedules. There are insiders who still give the Ravens the scheduling edge (mid-season & end).

 

Unless you're betting that Dalton consistently puts on A. Rodger-like feats throughout the season (pipe-dream?), Big Ben won't be missed (pipe-dream?) or the Browns...(ok). Why not us?

[rmcjacket23]

Not neccessarily unless you believe the Steelers, Browns and Bengals will run through non-conference opponents on their schedules. There are insiders who still give the Ravens the scheduling edge (mid-season & end).

 

Unless you're betting that Dalton consistently puts on A. Rodger-like feats throughout the season (pipe-dream?), Big Ben won't be missed (pipe-dream?) or the Browns...(ok). Why not us?

Don't disagree, but at some point, you've actually got to prove that you're worthy of being in the discussion with those guys.

 

Right now, it really doesn't matter how many games those guys have lost or will lose, because we haven't proven we can win even one game yet.

 

We put a couple wins together, hopefully the next 3 games actually, and we can get back in that conversation then. But we've lost the right to consider any game on our schedule a guaranteed win at this point, making it sort of moot right now what other teams in our division will be doing.

Edited September 29, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Don't disagree, but at some point, you've actually got to prove that you're worthy of being in the discussion with those guys.

 

Right now, it really doesn't matter how many games those guys have lost or will lose, because we haven't proven we can win even one game yet.

 

We put a couple wins together, hopefully the next 3 games actually, and we can get back in that conversation then. But we've lost the right to consider any game on our schedule a guaranteed win at this point, making it sort of moot right now what other teams in our division will be doing.

Agreed. We need to get those wins to 'become' part of the conversation, but my point was that this doesn't make it a 'pipe dream'. There are no guarantees in the game, but until it happens...there's a stronger probability that the Ravens are still in the conversation until they've been mathematically eliminated. At this point (even without that 1st W) insiders are saying that the Ravens are still in.

[PurpleCity5]

I personally miss McPhee more than Ngata. McPhee hasn't been playing as good in Chicago as I thought he was, but man he would be needed and relied upon heavily right now. Not to knock on Upshaw but he's not a pass rusher, but McPhee is sorely missed right now. 

[rmcjacket23]

Agreed. We need to get those wins to 'become' part of the conversation, but my point was that this doesn't make it a 'pipe dream'. There are no guarantees in the game, but until it happens...there's a stronger probability that the Ravens are still in the conversation until they've been mathematically eliminated. At this point (even without that 1st W) insiders are saying that the Ravens are still in.

My guess says that a loss on Thursday pretty much shuts the door on the insiders thinking that they are still in.

[Tru11]

if we loose thursday its a wrap.