[News] John Harbaugh Comes Down Hard On Defense

[OzzieBisciotti]

It's not Pees fault, it's Ozzie's fault for not upgrading the cornerback position this year when everyone knew it was a huge problem last year. Look at the Jets, they have great corner and an avg qb, yet they keep winning. Ozzie never wants to invest that much money into CBs or WRs, skilled positions because he thinks he can rent older ones (e.g. Boldin, Smith, etc..)..

[smiley4660]

The lack of preparation by the Defense for the Raiders game was glaringly apparent. Pees failed, the D-line was average, LBs were constantly out of place, and don't get me started on the secondary. We'll get it going on all cylinders again very soon, so I hope this was a wake up call for EVERYONE! Go Ravens!

[huntrgathrr]

The D was woefully unprepared and allowed too many plays by the Raiders. Yet they weren't horrible. They produced a 3 and out then a turnover on the 2 drives prior to the final game winning drive by Oakland. Hill even got a turnover on that drive which negated by a horrible call.

What I feel was the problem was 4 field goals by the offense. We were dominating them at the line of scrimmage and moved the ball at will. To come up with a field goal on our last drive was pathetic. They were on their heels and could stop nothing we did. Terrible play calling on the final drive.

Bottom line is we lost 2 very close games on the road and the officials had a lot to do with it. That isn't the end of the world. What troubles me is the "penalties" at the end of the game.

Seattle, Philadelphia, the Colts and the Ravens are all 0-2. These are 4 playoff teams.

The bookmakers got murdered on Sunday of opening week. Even i went 12-2 against the spread. They lost a fortune. So right on cue, every upset that could occur happened the following Monday night and Sunday. On the yahoo national survivor pool 800,000 out of a million were eliminated. The bookies made back all their money and then some. Kind of odd to say the least, unless you consider the money.

[thegooddoc456]

I don't wanna hear Harbaugh's yapping. If we're serious about winning, we'd have fired Pees long time ago. Harbaugh I don't trust, but have Biscotti and Ozzie completely lost their bearing too? Get Pees outta here please!!!

[Ravensfansince03]

offense scored 37 points. If you score 37 points and can't win a football game, you don't deserve to win. Flacco could have made a better pass to Steve Smith for an easy TD instead of settling for 3, but you can't blame the offense for this one

 

We scored 33. Raiders scored 37. Besides, we scored by going pass happy. Don't expect us to win games if we can't run the ball.

[Ravensfansince03]

This isn't pop warner where every did a great job and goes home with a medal.  The defense gave up 37 points, 351 passing yards and 3 TD's to a 2nd year QB.  They failed to get the Raiders offense off the field on several drives and when it mattered most in the 4th quarter they couldn't get the job done.  Harbs made a statement in the pre-season that he would love to get a game winning stop in the 4th quarter out of the defense and they haven't been able to do it and they haven't been able to do it for a couple years now.  

 

I just look back at times when we lost and Ray Lewis would say "we all didn't play our game". Not calling out the defense or offense. Regardless man Harbaugh spoke the truth, I was just a little upset at the way he came out and said it. Plenty of coaches will still back up their teams and say "we all lost".

[cobrajet]

Man if someone makes a bone head mistake in this game they best just go to the locker room and pack.

I would be willing to bet that the players are feeling the seriousness of the situation and are not going to be making blatant bone headed mistakes. I am not confident in a win but I am confident that they will give a better effort this Sunday.

[Europoljuice]

Now we are starting to see why Dan Pee's was let go. Those coordinators normally last a few years and then move on. Not to worry Chuck Pagano will be leaving the Colts soon! LOL We can pick him back up.

[BillyD]

It's not Pees fault, it's Ozzie's fault for not upgrading the cornerback position this year when everyone knew it was a huge problem last year. Look at the Jets, they have great corner and an avg qb, yet they keep winning. Ozzie never wants to invest that much money into CBs or WRs, skilled positions because he thinks he can rent older ones (e.g. Boldin, Smith, etc..)..

You get lemons, you make lemonade.  Howis it that NE can let their entire secondary go after last season and still put a good unit on the field?  Coaching and scheme.  Preparation.  And maybe a little interference in your headset, but hey, they still have to execute.  Pees is a crappy coordinater.  Plain and simple.  Our secondary is an NFL secondary.  Bottom line, you play soft zone and give a 7 to 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 3, as long as the QB can sort of throw and the receiver can sort of catch, you'll get the 1st down on the majority of 3rd and short plays.

[RavensAllDay1987]

Yesterday, 07:37 PM

Harbs is losing this team.............That's all...Harb's will be packing soon!

LOL

[The Mom Gene]

Harbs is losing this team.............That's all...Harb's will be packing soon!

Not seeing that AT ALL....

[rmcjacket23]

so if we did start off 0-4 by not attempting to salvage the season your suggesting that we purposefully tank correct? As much as I would like the higher draft pick, that's just not harbaugh or the ravens style.

No, not tanking. Just because you refuse to fire a coordinator that there's no indication John wants to fire anyway doesn't mean you aren't refusing to tank.

 

All I'm asking is... whats the goal? By going 0-4 and firing the DC, what are we attempting to accomplish? The playoff chances are 0%, and maybe we somehow "salvage" something and finish 7-9 or 8-8. OK, so what? 100% of Ravens fans would call that a disappointing season. There really isn't much difference between 7 wins and 4 wins in terms of the disappointment.

 

I certainly don't see the future DC of this team (if Pees gets fired, which I bet he doesn't) being a coach on the team currently, which means firing Pees mid-season just means you promote a guy and then fire him too at the end of the season.

[rmcjacket23]

 Specifically mentioning that effort was lacking shows how fed up Harbs is and that heads are going to roll if he doesn't get better effort and execution. We will find out Sunday whether Harbs was able to fire up the players enough to play much better. Even more important, let's hope the coaches have also had some serious discussions with Harbs about what coaching strategies are going to change this week as well. Harbs should be even more upset about some of the coaching strategies and decisions so I hope the coaches get an ear full if he hopes to actually improve the situation.

If a coach has to fire up a player to play better, then that player isn't good enough to be in the league.

 

Not a coaches job.

[The Mom Gene]

Happy Birthday to John Harbaugh!  Here's to hoping the O and the D and the ST gift him with a W this weekend.

[RavensFanMania]

Like I said before the year started, we aren't making the playoffs- Ozzie didn't do anything with the secondary (Webb has got to go), and he let our two speedsters walk away- for what? An unproven rookie who can't even put his cleats on the grass until next month. We are unfortunately going to get beat pretty good by the Bungals this weekend- they've improved while we've regressed. With a clear 0-3 start this year, we're not making the playoffs. You'll probably see Bisciotti make Harbaugh get rid of Pees at the end of this year. It's not his fault because we should've improved our cornerback situation, but we didn't. Look at what the Jets can do with a couple of great cornerbacks, they can win even with an average cornerback. But I know that won't be the case for us because we have to give Flacco so much money next year- we're screwed.... Torrey - we miss you.

This is uncalled for.  The season may have started but it is still young.  Why would you have given up on the Ravens after two games.  Have some heart.  In the Meantime, Torrey Smith wasn't worth 7 to 8 million on avg a season, plus we couldn't sign him due to the salary cap.  Jacoby Jones was relegated to special teams last season and sometimes couldn't handle his duties well.  Too much fumbling will get you in trouble.  Ozzie knows what he is doing and in time Perriman will be much better than Torrey Smith.  Sooner rather than later.

[The Mom Gene]

This is uncalled for.  The season may have started but it is still young.  Why would you have given up on the Ravens after two games.  Have some heart.  In the Meantime, Torrey Smith wasn't worth 7 to 8 million on avg a season, plus we couldn't sign him due to the salary cap.  Jacoby Jones was relegated to special teams last season and sometimes couldn't handle his duties well.  Too much fumbling will get you in trouble.  Ozzie knows what he is doing and in time Perriman will be much better than Torrey Smith.  Sooner rather than later.

Agreed...  And both games were just a play or two away from a "W".  No need for doom and gloom...  Some fans just aren't realistic.

[Tru11]

people do know we lost both games by a combined of 10 points right?

 

its like we got blown out orso lol

[salamander]

If a coach has to fire up a player to play better, then that player isn't good enough to be in the league.

 

Not a coaches job.

It certainly is a part of every coach's role to motivate or inspire his team, along with the player leadership every coach looks to for help with that. Naïve to think otherwise. Sure, players should be pros and be self motivated but the essence of a successful team will be always be improved by both coaches and players to lead and inspire a team to achieve a little more as a result. There is no need for an intellectual debate regarding a basic reality of any team sport. Try telling that to Harbs, who has spent thousands of hours creating team talks or speeches and inviting speakers for the sole intent of firing up and motivating his team.  

Edited September 23, 2015 by salamander

[Rave-O]

@Billy D great post. I have looked at those numbers before my self more fans should before they talk about the problem being the players fault. Pees was 'vanilla' as soon as he got here it was noticeable immediately. I remember when Pees would have the linebackers playing 10yds off the line of scrimmage! Now he has the CB's playing 10yds back. I think Pees just doesn't like the line of scrimmage.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Rave-O

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

I just look back at times when we lost and Ray Lewis would say "we all didn't play our game". Not calling out the defense or offense. Regardless man Harbaugh spoke the truth, I was just a little upset at the way he came out and said it. Plenty of coaches will still back up their teams and say "we all lost".

 

I understand what you're saying but I commend Harbs for calling them out, they deserve to be called out.  Harbs used to do just that and hide behind that "we" but now the defense knows that it's on them and as a unit they need to step up and play smash mouth Ravens style defense.  We've got a tough schedule, with 2 division games coming up and if we make it out 2-2 it would be a miracle bc I honestly see us being 1-3 after these next 2 games.

[RavensFanMania]

Agreed...  And both games were just a play or two away from a "W".  No need for doom and gloom...  Some fans just aren't realistic.

yep, a play or two away from a win.  One week we needed better O, the next week a better D.  If we start to put it together we could be very good.  It takes a bit of time for offenses to come together and even though we are still running a WCO with ZBS under Trestman, there are some differences, plus the OL didn't play together in the preseason due to nagging injuries.  Also its a difficult adjustment to lose a player the caliber of Terrell Suggs.  He's not only a great player, but an even better leader and motivator on the field.  I felt sorry for the teams we played when we had Lewis, Suggs, Reed and Ngata on the field.  That was just plane unfair, and I thought Ed Reed was like having an extra player not even taking into account the others!

[Europoljuice]

Lets face it, the issue is money. Money is always where you can trace almost any issue. So with that being said. We can't afford to get the top talent. Why? Cause none of those top tied players are willing to take a cut and renegotiate there contracts. Do you hear me yet Joe?? You seem like you are just showing up to take a pay check. No real emotion no real hoiutzspa. Look at Brady, look at Ben,..look at the other QB's. We all know the D fence took a dive last week but I believe they will bounce back. The real concern is the lack of scoring and no real wide receivers. I do like my boy Happy Crocket Gillmore!! You play like real Raven! If this week looks like last week. I would tell Harbaugh to get a new staff. Start with Trestmen's high school play book and lets get something going. Other words. Steel some plays from Green Bay, Pats, Steelers...Go and get some plays that work. The don't miss a wide open receiver in the end zone. It looked like Jimmy Orr in the Superbowl waving his arms. Get it together or heads will roll.

[January J]

No, not tanking. Just because you refuse to fire a coordinator that there's no indication John wants to fire anyway doesn't mean you aren't refusing to tank.

All I'm asking is... whats the goal? By going 0-4 and firing the DC, what are we attempting to accomplish? The playoff chances are 0%, and maybe we somehow "salvage" something and finish 7-9 or 8-8. OK, so what? 100% of Ravens fans would call that a disappointing season. There really isn't much difference between 7 wins and 4 wins in terms of the disappointment.

I certainly don't see the future DC of this team (if Pees gets fired, which I bet he doesn't) being a coach on the team currently, which means firing Pees mid-season just means you promote a guy and then fire him too at the end of the season.

so instead of trying to salvage something your saying we should just go through the motions bc there isn't a difference in 5 or 6 more wins? If your not trying to salvage the season and win then you are basically tanking and you specifically mentioned a lower draft position if we fire pees and attempt to fix things. I just think harbaugh and the front office would disagree with you. Maybe there is another option out there right now outside of the team , and if so getting him in midseason so he can start working with the defense in game situations and getting a 9 month headstart is certainly better than the alternative especially if our season is done anyway.

All that being said , I don't see it happening either. unless we are just god awful for the next 2 games which happen to be divisional matchups which increases the importance. I think we will rebound well, and the raiders game was just a combination of us sleeping on a team that is a little better than we thought, and us being a little tired and off from being out west in back to back weeks. with our defense doing so well against a hall of game quarterback and offense like Denver has and then flopping against an inexperienced Derek carr and letting the raiders walk on us, it just doesn't make much sense otherwise.

All I know is we could just as easily be 2-0 if the ball bounces differently and if you wipe away a penalty or two.. And had that been the case nobody would be calling for anybody's job. I'm not thrilled with dean, but I think we will see the proper adjustments over the next few weeks, and if not then we will see what happens.

[BillyD]

Nice post. I almost skipped it because it's so long, but you have some good numbers there. Maybe we should have better calls on D that get our guys motivated. I don't know if blitzing more, like the Jets coach likes to do, would've helped, as this article states Carr, for the most part, was getting the ball out rather quickly to open receivers running short routes. He did have time to go deep and run around and throw, too, so maybe it was a career day for Carr. We need to get after the Bengals, though. We need to tackle and cover and rush, all at a high level, to win next Sunday. There's no doubt about it, the bengals have a formidable offense and run a lot of different plays, reverses, screens, read-option runs, play-action, deep throws, etc. I remember last year playing them when they brought the Kitchen Sink to the game and we got it. They might score 40 points or more, so we better get Touchdowns instead of FG's. I'd say if we have a 4th down inside the 5 yard line, we are going to need no less than 7 points there each and every time. That is my opinion. Field Goals will not help us next Sunday. I really don't see any other way to keep up with the Bengals scoring.

Well, it's not just blitzing and exotic packages.  The CBs need to be able to be more aggressive and Pees needs to stop with the soft zone schemes.  Just because Carr was getting the ball out early doesn't mean he should have carved us up like that.  If he's throwing quick, press the receivers with the corners, make the QB hesitate or think twice about that first read.  Jump the route.  At the same time, you need to make sure you have over the top coverage, that's where the safeties come in.  If the CB gets beat on a double move, the safety needs to back him up.  Move the OLBs out to disrupt the passing lanes, knock the TE or even a slot receiver off of his route and screw with the timing of the play.  Look, I'm no DC, but I'm no fool either.  If it's a 2nd or 3rd and short situation and your CBs are lined up 3 to 5 yards BEYOND the 1st down marker, their first steps post snap are a yard or to MORE downfield, the receiver takes 4 to 5 steps, stops, turns, the ball is there, our CB reacts and makes a tackle (hopefully), but it's too late and there you have it, FIRST DOWN.  It's not rocket science....well...maybe to Pees it IS rocket science!

 

And I couldn't agree with you more about the scoring.  We need TDs.  FGs are good, but TDs win games in this scenario with this team.  We just don't have the scheme on defense right now that will allow us to hold onto a 1 or 2 or even a 3 point lead.  Heck, against Oakland 6 points wouldn't have been enough.  I see more potential on offense, but I really scratch my head...you have Gilmore who was having a monster game, as was Steve.  But Gilmore is big.  Over 6ft tall and strong.  And you throw a fade to...Steve?  Don't get me wrong, I love Steve and he ALMOST made 2 game winning plays out west.  But you're forcing Joe to thread a needle to a small (yet physical and fully capable) receiver when you could loft it to the big man and let him out jump and box out the defender for the TD.  Yeah, I know, we tried that with the Croc-O-Matic against Den and it didn't work out.  But we threw that to the MIDDLE of the field.  And Joe was just a bit off, he should have layed it out a bit further so either Crocket would catch it or no one would catch it.  You know, like a corner route to the back corner of the end zone?  Maybe?

 

Like I said, I'm no play caller, and if any of these plays on O would have worked, we would be singing a different tune.  But they didn't and we're not.  So the coaching staff needs to make adjustments.  Let's hope they do, or Cincy is gonna run wild on Sunday.  Hopefully that won't be the case.  Go RAVENS!

[BillyD]

Maybe being ranked 1st in defense after the first week was not only premature but lead to a sense of over-confidence that Raiders would be easy to dominate. No team can ever afford to underestimate their opponent or overestimate their successes. Play hungry, play like you have to prove something every time you take the field or you will get chewed up and spit out like we did this week. Defense, it's time to take your disciplined frustrations out on the Bengals.

Good call.  That definitely may have lead to a sense of overconfidence.  I stil think our success defensively against Den had alot to do with their offensive scheme.  They just couldn't do ANYTHING right until Kubiack put the ball back in Manning's hands in the second half of the KC game.  It was a different offense from that point on, and they lit it up.Yeah, our D had a bunch of sacks and QB hurries in that one, but so did the Chiefs in the first half against Den.  In the 2nd half, they didn't do so well.

[rmcjacket23]

so instead of trying to salvage something your saying we should just go through the motions bc there isn't a difference in 5 or 6 more wins? If your not trying to salvage the season and win then you are basically tanking and you specifically mentioned a lower draft position if we fire pees and attempt to fix things. I just think harbaugh and the front office would disagree with you. Maybe there is another option out there right now outside of the team , and if so getting him in midseason so he can start working with the defense in game situations and getting a 9 month headstart is certainly better than the alternative especially if our season is done anyway.

All that being said , I don't see it happening either. unless we are just god awful for the next 2 games which happen to be divisional matchups which increases the importance. I think we will rebound well, and the raiders game was just a combination of us sleeping on a team that is a little better than we thought, and us being a little tired and off from being out west in back to back weeks. with our defense doing so well against a hall of game quarterback and offense like Denver has and then flopping against an inexperienced Derek carr and letting the raiders walk on us, it just doesn't make much sense otherwise.

All I know is we could just as easily be 2-0 if the ball bounces differently and if you wipe away a penalty or two.. And had that been the case nobody would be calling for anybody's job. I'm not thrilled with dean, but I think we will see the proper adjustments over the next few weeks, and if not then we will see what happens.

I think we pretend like because we fired Cam Cameron mid-season (when we were 9-4 mind you) that its a viable solution to anytime we decide we don't like a coach. We heard the same things from these forums with Juan Castillo among others. I don't think its realistic. Its pretty rare for coaches, whether its HC or coordinators, to be fired mid-season, and I can't think of many instances where a bad team in the record book salvaged anything by doing it.

 

We've actually seen this exact same scenario play out once already... in 2007. Team that was held in high regard based on their previous season, very high expectations, finished with a 5-11 record, including nine consecutive losses at one point. All this was AFTER the fanbase was calling for Billick's job, and the easy solution for the franchise would have been to fire Billick mid-season and try to "salvage" something. They didn't. They did what we expected them to do... they fired him after the season, which is how the overwhelming majority of these situations play out.

 

The notion of bringing somebody from the outside in during the season is not possible, because there's zero chance they look to implement potentially different schemes, different formations, etc. on defense mid-season. That, again, would be a post-season decision. Getting a nine month head start doesn't really mean  much, because the personnel could change and that coordinator himself isn't guaranteed to be here either. Frankly, I don't even know why a coach would want that job at all in midseason.

 

Any way you look at it, at 0-4, there's nothing to salvage and there's no decisions that can be made to salvage it. The only thing the coaching staff/FO would do is try to salvage their own jobs, and firing coaches mid-season after a bad start doesn't solve that problem either.

Edited September 23, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Ravensfansince03]

I understand what you're saying but I commend Harbs for calling them out, they deserve to be called out.  Harbs used to do just that and hide behind that "we" but now the defense knows that it's on them and as a unit they need to step up and play smash mouth Ravens style defense.  We've got a tough schedule, with 2 division games coming up and if we make it out 2-2 it would be a miracle bc I honestly see us being 1-3 after these next 2 games.

I hope not. I have a feeling that the defense will get stout and our offense will rally around Gillmore.

[BillyD]

Lets face it, the issue is money. Money is always where you can trace almost any issue. So with that being said. We can't afford to get the top talent. Why? Cause none of those top tied players are willing to take a cut and renegotiate there contracts. Do you hear me yet Joe?? You seem like you are just showing up to take a pay check. No real emotion no real hoiutzspa. Look at Brady, look at Ben,..look at the other QB's. We all know the D fence took a dive last week but I believe they will bounce back. The real concern is the lack of scoring and no real wide receivers. I do like my boy Happy Crocket Gillmore!! You play like real Raven! If this week looks like last week. I would tell Harbaugh to get a new staff. Start with Trestmen's high school play book and lets get something going. Other words. Steel some plays from Green Bay, Pats, Steelers...Go and get some plays that work. The don't miss a wide open receiver in the end zone. It looked like Jimmy Orr in the Superbowl waving his arms. Get it together or heads will roll.

I agree and disagree with you.  I don't buy the money argument.  There are plenty of teams around the league that have players come and go (namely NE) and are consistenly good teams.  And we've seen player go...so?  How did Adelius Thomas do when he left?  How is Haloti doing (his squad is ALSO 0-2).  Carey Williams and the Eagles didn't do too hot the last couple years (oh, and by the way he's now with Seattle...who is also 0-2).  Torrey is doing what he does in SF, but they are not such a hot team, either.  I can go on...we've had players go to Indy (currently 0-2) and Miami, which looks lost out there. Players play and need to execute.  But if your game plan is not up to par, you just won't win.

 

I do agree with the play calling argument.  Listen, we don't have a bunch of bums out there, we have a good team!  But the SCHEMES, man!  THE SCHEMES!  Wow, we need a big change in that philosophy.  We lack the killer instinct. And it starts with the scheme to attack and dominate.  We attack, then sit back.  Sit back, then ATTACK...and it's too late.  It has to be consistent...ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK...PLAY TO WIN the GAME!

[BillyD]

If a coach has to fire up a player to play better, then that player isn't good enough to be in the league.

 

Not a coaches job.

Yep.  Coaches job is to scheme and get the most out of the players he has.  And we are not doing that, currently.

[BillyD]

Not seeing that AT ALL....

Agreed...Harbs has proven to be meticulous and thoughtful when making changes.  He's not a "knee jerk" reaction kind of guy (see DANIEL SNYDER).  He has, however, IMO, clearly put the DC on notice, both in the preseason and currently.  He just does it in a very profesisonal manner!