[News] John Harbaugh Comes Down Hard On Defense

[January J]

It didn't matter if he threw it quick or took his time, there was little or no pressure. The corners gave the Raiders a 15 yard cushion and if they moved up, without any pressure, Carr just threw over their head. Arrington and Lewis were supposed to come in and be solid pieces in the secondary and they just fell apart. Lousy tackling, in the wrong spots, lousy coverage. We all know Ozzie doesn't go top shelf shopping for free agents but our bargain brand fill ins are about as effective as the last couple secondary fill-ins we acquired. (Darian Steward, Jeromy Miles, Michael Huff, Dominic Franks, etc... and now Arrington and Lewis). Some positions you really need to get good players to be effective. Perfect example is Steve Smith Sr who is as advertised. You paid for a good player and you got one. The other wide receiver/cb/safety positions that we have been cheap on we got what we paid for. At some point in time, and it may not be until next year but you got to pay to play. I would have thought after years and years of failing to develop a wide receiver, we wouldn't try to grab one to develop in the draft, we would have picked up one of the high dollar free agents but we didn't and now we have nothing. Same with the secondary, with the way the league is set up to benefit receivers and play to qb's you have to have good coverage guys. We didn't spend the money and now here we are with exactly the same problems. Wide Receiver/safety/cb, same positions, same problems, year after year after year.

would be wild if Ozzie did somethin very un-ozzy like and dropped Kendrick Lewis and traded a first round pick to Seattle for chancellor. Sadly I doubt that would even fix the problem (and would never happen anyway ) and would be pretty dumb considering if we keep playing this way we might actually get a high pick next year.

[rmcjacket23]

This is a Dean Pees warning shot. Don't think he is safe this entire season if you remember what happened to Cam Cameron. Harbaugh has continually been vocal about his frustration of allowing last minute drives that result in points, whether it is before the half, or at the end of the game. From NE, to the Preseason, to Oakland, he is not happy about the gifts we give teams. 

The problem I have with this is... if/when the time would come for John to move on from Pees, what good does it really do in 2015?

 

The difference between firing Pees and firing Cam is the record... the Ravens were 9-4 when they fired Cam Cameron. They knew all they had to do was win 1 out of 3 games and they were going to the playoffs. 

 

I'd say, at a minimum, it would require at least two more consecutive bad outings from the defense in order to get Pees fired (remember there was precisely ZERO discussion about his termination just 3 days ago). That means, if we have to consecutive bad defensive outings, you're staring at 0-4.

 

At 0-4, the season is over (its likely over at 0-3 as well). This team doesn't have the talent to win 10 or 11 out of 12 games, which is what would be required to get a playoff spot. So, now you're firing  your DC, promoting internally (because it makes zero sense to add a new coordinator from outside mid-season), and you're not making the playoffs.

 

Where's the gain? Getting a worse (meaning not as good) of a draft pick? Trying to salvage a season and try to climb to like an 8-8 record so we can pick in the middle teens again?

 

I don't see the mid-season firing coming. The only way I see it happening is in another Cam Cameron like scenario... the team starts playing great again, has very possible SB aspirations, and Harbaugh thinks the only thing standing in the way is the DC. Hard to imagine that happening.

 

IF there's a firing coming (and I'm not buying there is, certainly not off one game), I'd bet it comes in the offseason, not in the mid-season.

[rmcjacket23]

would be wild if Ozzie did somethin very un-ozzy like and dropped Kendrick Lewis and traded a first round pick to Seattle for chancellor. Sadly I doubt that would even fix the problem (and would never happen anyway ) and would be pretty dumb considering if we keep playing this way we might actually get a high pick next year.

1. Not sure how the Seahawks benefit from that... Chancellor is probably worth more than a back-end first round pick to them and 

2. We can't afford Chancellor.

[DaRupp]

not all of this is on dean pees. this defense has become very young with suggs out. if pees is let go at some point than ted monachino should get a shot.

 

ummmm I would put this 100% on dean. Who cares if the defense is young, they aren't all rookies. The raven's defense was completely out coached. We got no pressure on them rushing 3 or 4, and therefore carr picked the secondary apart. He made 0 in game adjustments (still rushing 3 or 4 ineffectively in the second half). He needs to change his methods or he's toast.

[DaRupp]

1. Not sure how the Seahawks benefit from that... Chancellor is probably worth more than a back-end first round pick to them and 

2. We can't afford Chancellor.

 

and the players aren't the problem

[January J]

The problem I have with this is... if/when the time would come for John to move on from Pees, what good does it really do in 2015?

The difference between firing Pees and firing Cam is the record... the Ravens were 9-4 when they fired Cam Cameron. They knew all they had to do was win 1 out of 3 games and they were going to the playoffs.

I'd say, at a minimum, it would require at least two more consecutive bad outings from the defense in order to get Pees fired (remember there was precisely ZERO discussion about his termination just 3 days ago). That means, if we have to consecutive bad defensive outings, you're staring at 0-4.

At 0-4, the season is over (its likely over at 0-3 as well). This team doesn't have the talent to win 10 or 11 out of 12 games, which is what would be required to get a playoff spot. So, now you're firing your DC, promoting internally (because it makes zero sense to add a new coordinator from outside mid-season), and you're not making the playoffs.

Where's the gain? Getting a worse (meaning not as good) of a draft pick? Trying to salvage a season and try to climb to like an 8-8 record so we can pick in the middle teens again?

I don't see the mid-season firing coming. The only way I see it happening is in another Cam Cameron like scenario... the team starts playing great again, has very possible SB aspirations, and Harbaugh thinks the only thing standing in the way is the DC. Hard to imagine that happening.

IF there's a firing coming (and I'm not buying there is, certainly not off one game), I'd bet it comes in the offseason, not in the mid-season.

so if we did start off 0-4 by not attempting to salvage the season your suggesting that we purposefully tank correct? As much as I would like the higher draft pick, that's just not harbaugh or the ravens style.

[January J]

1. Not sure how the Seahawks benefit from that... Chancellor is probably worth more than a back-end first round pick to them and

2. We can't afford Chancellor.

1) they're benefitting Zero from him now.

2) why I said it would never happen anyway.

[trevorsteadman]

Corners need to play closer up. Receivers need to play more aggressive. Offensive line needs to mesh better together. Honestly the entire team can get better in one way or another at this point and that is why we are 0-2. The defense made us lose against the Raiders and the offense made us lose in Denver. The season is 16 games not two and the Colts and Seahawks, probably the two teams named to be in the super bowl this year are also 0-2. If the Ravens go 4-4 the first half of the season they will be fine. Anything lower than that then they will struggle to make the play offs. The schedule is friendly at the end this is the tough stretch.

[GeeWallee]

I see things , in this light. If you don't like the meals being served?

Go somewhere else to eat !

Starting off with 2 "Ls" wasn't expected , but it is what it is. There is a chance to right the ship this coming Sunday. Sure it wasn't easy on any one to have to stay in an unfamiliar place for 7 days and have everything be 100% spot on.

Harbaugh is right about the Defense. They worked their way back to take a FG lead with 2 minutes left. Harbaugh and I'm sure the rest of us fans would have assumed that they wouldn't have marched down the field.

Just have to move on and keep the faith. Calling for firings and criticizing team officials for bringing in a CB instead of a WR or some other position doesn't get you any where. I mean.....Flacco threw for 384 with 2 TDs , that could have just as easily have been 3 TDs. I'd say scoring 33 Points is pretty sufficient to Win a game.

Let's get a "W" on Sunday and go from there.

[axisofeeble]

Trade for a DC&andOC and a pass reciever. Try Gilmore in the slot with Williams at TE and that beast blocking and slipping out some. Pitiful so far. Top ten draft pick in the offing?

[FlaccosRavens]

No time for panic my great Ravens Nation, we are gonna demolish Cincy and Pittsburgh, end of story!!! We are the two time Super Bowl winning Baltimore Ravens. If you've learned anything from our organization, know that we bounce back with a vengeance. I smell (1-2) and then (2-2), don't know about you all but we have 14 games to go.

[Asmodeus71]

It disturbs me how so many on here are just a flip of a coin fan, last week the defense was great and no one was talking bad about Pees. This week the players were flat, sorry Webb kept breaking the wrong way on coverage, Jimmy Smith got made a fool more than once, there were few if any defensive players who didn't make a mistake on their own. It had nothing to do with coaching or where they lined up, they just reacted wrong to the play. Yeah the corners need to line up tighter and maybe get better skilled at tight man to man coverage. Coaches aren't innocent but when a defense plays this flat it is in their heads. Maybe it wasn't the lack of Suggs as a player but the lack of Suggs just motivating. I don't want to blame it on Suggs not being there but something happened from one week to the other and these guys just weren't in the game.

[poedacrow]

The next three games are divisional matches (two at home, one in stiller land) and, while the coaches/players swear they don't "look ahead", they are critical to the playoff aspirations of this team. Through two games this season I've seen nothing that would call for the ouster of Pees although I believe Harbs was justified in calling out the defense on their performance in that last drive. I've seen nothing that can't be fixed with good coaching and attention to the fundamentals of Ravens Football and there are no magical FA acquisitions that will right this ship. A new season starts this Sunday at the Bank in front of what I know will be a sell out, raucous crowd. We will see what we are  made of.

Edited September 22, 2015 by poedacrow

[RavensAllDay1987]

Don't get me wrong it was a tough loss to swallow, trust me know I was in Oakland for the game sitting right behind our Ravens bench and I felt it just as much as any of you did, I also stayed at the same hotel as the team and I can tell you these coaches and players bust their asses and put in a ridiculous amount of time trying to ready themselves to win a football game, but if all of the sky is falling fans just take a step back for a moment and really look at these past 2 games, they would realize we had 2 tough last second losses on the road out west, but all you see is fans calling for people to be fired, saying our season is over already. I can tell you one thing im glad OUR team does not think like most of you fans. This franchise has been faced with plenty of adversity over the years and have had longer losing streaks then this and the Ravens always come out fighting and find a way to get it done and build towards getting into the tournament every year, but I guess all you gloom and doom fans have forgot the Ravens have one of the best home records in the NFL dating back to 2000, so before you all give up on the season lets play some home games and see how this team responds as the season progresses, look around the league there are a lot of really good teams sitting with same record as our Ravens. RAVENS NATION we are better then this. Lets support the team and be LOUD sunday and show why we are the best 12th man in football Sunday at the Vault. I know my crew up in section 516 will do our part. LFG

[birdseye]

I like the positivity I'm reading on here, restoring some faith in ravens nation. People outside the NFl really underestimate the advantage of playing at home vs traveling across the country to play. Just look at home vs away records throughout the history of the NFL and the #'s are staggering. Even if we lose two more road games we can still split on the road, which is all you really need. With the home field advantage we have at the Bank its not a stretch to say we will win at least 6 of 8 games at home. Let me do the math. 6 4 = 10 = playoffs.... yet somehow according to some of ravens unfaithful were eliminated.

[Barry S]

I was a fan here in in the mid 70s when the then Baltimore Colts had a miserable 2 and 12 season the very next year they started 1 & 4 and went on to win 9 games in a row, they won the division, so it can be done. The Ravens have to start playing hitting on all cylinders soon or the season could be lost.

[LunarRover]

i dont think the coaches really trust the Dbs or they would hvae them playing more press coverage and jamming the line of scrim. Jimmy got torched early and seemed to play scared all afternoon. Webb is a non factor and hopefully the new guy i hear is very instinctive i hope he can step into things right away. He finshes plays and has a knack for INTs, not just breakups. Dumervil didnt seem to take the lead or elevate his game, really a big downer imo. This defense was straight defecated on by Oakland. that must change. ppl have this "oh...its early still attitude" but the issue is that even though its early, climbing out of the basement of our division isnt easy and these 2 wks will haunt us all season because we have serious caliber and talented teams that we will pray start losing soon, and it may not happ. losing self destiny this early is never a good thing and that is why so little even make the playoffs when starting 0-2. truly scary to a perennial playoff team that we are.

[EliteRavens]

The defense needs to be consistent

[Moderator 3]

The defense needs to be consistent

Consistently good, please.

[EliteRavens]

Consistently good, please.

Yeah exactly. This defense can be top 5 in the nfl.

[WordProphet]

Harbaugh said it right, the defense messes up, and it's really no excuse for it for they were stupid mistakes made that I would expect rookies to make, but veterans were making these mistakes and in the process of making them they made sure we lost. They might as well been playing for the Raiders. And saying I messed up its my fault does not replace a lost, for we are 0 and 2 now because of it. This is not playing like a Raven, this is playing like losers, this has got to be turned around and the ones who make these stupid bonehead mistakes need to be held accountable with stupid out of your mind fines. If they want to make stupid bonehead mistakes then they need to be fined a stupid amount of money like $50,000.00 dollars, I bet you they would stop making those stupid mistakes then!!!

[WordProphet]

And Harbaugh was also right when he said its the whole teams fault coaches and players, for this is not how the Ravens played who won the Superbowl and playing like this will not win us another Superbowl because we'll probably wined up in last place if we keep playing like this.

[WordProphet]

Let me tell you something right now, I don't care how much time you put in practicing, I don't care how much time you put in learning your craft, stupid mistakes will undermine everything you've practiced and will bring the house down around you. For its very hard to overcome mistakes when you don't have much time left on the clock or no time left on the clock. I know mistakes will be made but some of them will cost you dearly and will ruin your run to the playoffs not even talking about the Superbowl. So saying that, mistakes have to be kept to a minimal all the time, or you will wish that mistakes were not made, for they can be very costly for everyone involved!!!

[salamander]

 Specifically mentioning that effort was lacking shows how fed up Harbs is and that heads are going to roll if he doesn't get better effort and execution. We will find out Sunday whether Harbs was able to fire up the players enough to play much better. Even more important, let's hope the coaches have also had some serious discussions with Harbs about what coaching strategies are going to change this week as well. Harbs should be even more upset about some of the coaching strategies and decisions so I hope the coaches get an ear full if he hopes to actually improve the situation.

Edited September 22, 2015 by salamander

[BillyD]

Harbs shoudl be coming down hard on the D, and especially the DC. Listen, we've had a total of 6 DCs in Ravens history. Let's see how they stack up:

Marvin Lewis - First three seasons with a new franchise, couldn't get the defense into a top 20 squad let alone a top 10 squad. His last 3 seasons as DC (99-01)? Ravens were the #2 D in the league each year.

Mike Nolan - First season was a tough transition and the D ranked 22nd over all. In his next two seasons the D was in the top 10 overall, ranked 3rd in 09 and 6th in 04.

Rex Ryan - The D under Rex never fell out of the top 10 in the league. It was at it's lowest under Rex at 6th overall in 2007, and finished 1st overall in 06 and 2nd overall in 08.

Greg Mattison (REMEMBER THIS KNUCLEHEAD? THE CURRENT DC REMINDS ME OF HIM) - In 2 seasons as the DC, Mattison's squad ranked 30th (that was in 09, a year after Rex had the #2 D in the league), and 10th in 2010 thanks to a stout run D that ranked 5th overall. However, the pass defense in 2010 ranked 21st in the league. Sound familiar? Read on...

Chuck Pagano - In his one season as DC in Baltimore, the squad ranked 3rd overall, 4th against the pass and 2nd against the run. Imagine that...a squad that ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league the previous year was ranked in the top 5 in the league the following year. COACHING, COACHING, COACHING.

Dean Pees - In his 3 seasons, Pees has been able to accomplish the following:

2012 - 17th ranked defense. He gets credit for a Super Bowl, however, I highly doubt that our 17th ranked pass defense and 20th ranked run defense did any more than keep us close as Joe had a historic playoff run that propelled us into the SB and to a win in New Orleans. I just remember praying SF wouldn't run the ball on that last series insode the 5. Luckily, they didn't.

2013 - 12th ranked defense overall. Not terrible, 11th against the run, 12th against the pass...but not Ravens football.

2014: 8th ranked defense overall. Not bad. Top 10 defense, right? Yep. Thanks to the 4th ranked defense against the run. Last season, the Ravens ranked 23rd against the pass.

So where does that leave us? Sure, there are other factors in play, losing players to injury, free agency, etc. But that happens pretty much every year. The fact of the matter is that we get burned and carved up because of the soft zone coverages Pees loves to run. If you look at the history of our defense, we have had coaches that scheme and get the most out of our defensive unit agaist the run AND pass. But there are some (I'M TALKING TO YOU, PEES AND MATTISON) that can't seem to get those units to excel equally. And when they have play consistently under those DCs, as they did under Pees in 2012 and under Mattison in 2009, it's not to the top 5 level that is consistent with Ravens football. That's just my opinion, and I think the numbers support that. What do you guys think?

[ravenstime]

Nice post. I almost skipped it because it's so long, but you have some good numbers there. Maybe we should have better calls on D that get our guys motivated. I don't know if blitzing more, like the Jets coach likes to do, would've helped, as this article states Carr, for the most part, was getting the ball out rather quickly to open receivers running short routes. He did have time to go deep and run around and throw, too, so maybe it was a career day for Carr. We need to get after the Bengals, though. We need to tackle and cover and rush, all at a high level, to win next Sunday. There's no doubt about it, the bengals have a formidable offense and run a lot of different plays, reverses, screens, read-option runs, play-action, deep throws, etc. I remember last year playing them when they brought the Kitchen Sink to the game and we got it. They might score 40 points or more, so we better get Touchdowns instead of FG's. I'd say if we have a 4th down inside the 5 yard line, we are going to need no less than 7 points there each and every time. That is my opinion. Field Goals will not help us next Sunday. I really don't see any other way to keep up with the Bengals scoring.

[Crusader]

Man if someone makes a bone head mistake in this game they best just go to the locker room and pack.

[salamander]

Maybe being ranked 1st in defense after the first week was not only premature but lead to a sense of over-confidence that Raiders would be easy to dominate. No team can ever afford to underestimate their opponent or overestimate their successes. Play hungry, play like you have to prove something every time you take the field or you will get chewed up and spit out like we did this week. Defense, it's time to take your disciplined frustrations out on the Bengals.

Edited September 22, 2015 by salamander

[Bohica5]

Harbs is losing this team.............That's all...Harb's will be packing soon!

[OzzieBisciotti]

Ozzie should Come Down Hard on Ozzie for giving him a crappy secondary for the second straight year!