2016 WR Prospect Thread

[BmoreBird22]

Link (Body catching the comeback). Link (Completely allows the throw into his body). Link (Same thing, body catching). Link (I've noticed this as a fairly frequent issue, but he uses his arms to catch deep balls instead of his hands, similar to Jacoby Jones). Link (Drop over the middle because he allows a throw into his body). Link (He gets into a 50/50 ball situation and crunches up his arms to arm catch it. Does not attack with hands). Link (Completely alligator arms another deep ball. Had the corner go up, that's probably not a catch). Link (Allows a throw into his body because he wants to get his arms under the throw). Link (Same thing, drops a pass over the middle because he tries to get his arms under it, not hands catch it). Link (Inside curl, tries to get arms under it, allows it into body, drops it).

This also entirely ignores the fact that he's a terrible blocker. No, I don't mean the minimal effort he gives because the play isn't to his side. I mean that when the quarterback scrambles or when the running back cuts back to his side, he gives hardly any effort or shows awful technique and allows many plays to get blown up because he's a flat out terrible blocker. 

There- There's 10 GIFs from a few different games. There are only so many games available and they don't have every single offensive play, but 10 from three or four different games should make my point. There were more plays that were questionable, but these should do. I have nothing more to say at this point.

[gabefergy]

55 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's an issue on slants in all the games I've seen. The vast majority I have seen in videos have come over the middle because he allows way too many catches into his body when he's going over the middle, so no, I'm not. You have done zero research and probably don't even review any game tape. You probably watched his videos once four months ago and try to act like you're some professional scout.

You have no clue what I do or don't do. You like to make up things and instead of taking responsibility for your made up stories deflect blame to others.

 

Here's what I have seen in re-watching 6 videos on Draftbreakdown. 3 drops on passes that could be considered "over the middle". 2 of them were at or below the waist and slightly behind the reciever, with no influence from the defender at all. One was a flat drop.  The "body catching", if you want to call it that, is 9/10 times because the ball is at or below the waist. I counted one catch on a slant where the ball was allowed to get into his frame and not because it was low. Balls at shoulder or chest height are virtually always caught with hands away from the body. Poor ball placement was a common theme on slants.

[gabefergy]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Link (Body catching the comeback). Link (Completely allows the throw into his body). Link (Same thing, body catching). Link (I've noticed this as a fairly frequent issue, but he uses his arms to catch deep balls instead of his hands, similar to Jacoby Jones). Link (Drop over the middle because he allows a throw into his body). Link (He gets into a 50/50 ball situation and crunches up his arms to arm catch it. Does not attack with hands). Link (Completely alligator arms another deep ball. Had the corner go up, that's probably not a catch). Link (Allows a throw into his body because he wants to get his arms under the throw). Link (Same thing, drops a pass over the middle because he tries to get his arms under it, not hands catch it). Link (Inside curl, tries to get arms under it, allows it into body, drops it).

This also entirely ignores the fact that he's a terrible blocker. No, I don't mean the minimal effort he gives because the play isn't to his side. I mean that when the quarterback scrambles or when the running back cuts back to his side, he gives hardly any effort or shows awful technique and allows many plays to get blown up because he's a flat out terrible blocker. 

There- There's 10 GIFs from a few different games. There are only so many games available and they don't have every single offensive play, but 10 from three or four different games should make my point. There were more plays that were questionable, but these should do. I have nothing more to say at this point.

First link, the ball is way off of frame and he has to dive to catch the ball. Trying to extend and just catch with his hands would have made it a much lower % play.

Second link, the ball is at his waist and behind him. He had to turn to make the catch, extending backwards with just his hands turns it into a lower % play.

Third link, isn't over the middle, and is a ball once again underthrown, also he catches the ball with his hands and brings it in to his body. He doesn't let it into his body first.

Fourth link, terrible throw from the QB is behind the receiver, low, and thrown way to hard for a pass from 5 yards away.

Fifth link, once again not over the middle, but yes, this is a play where ideally he jumps up and catches the ball away from frame, although this is quite difficult for a receiver going full speed to stop, contort his body in attempt to highpoint. If the ball is placed better it's not an issue. Very few WRs have the body control to make this type of play consistently.

Sixth link, mistimed jump, not alligator armed. Still an extremely athletic play.

7th link, was the one time in 6 games the ball was accurately placed and he let it get into his body.

8th link is broken

9th link, another bad pass, low and behind the receiver, but it was one of the drops I noted before.

10th link, bad drop.

So yes, there are instances in which Coleman allows the ball get into his body, but as previously stated the vast marjority are plays where the ball is underthrown or thrown low and/or behind the receiver. Only 1 drop was on a ball that was not poorly placed. Could it be an issue at the next level? Yes, I believe it could be a problem on contested catches when Coleman has to make major adjustments to the ball. He will probably have some drops just like every other WR that ever played the game.

Am I specifically worried about plays over the middle? Not at all. 

 

[BmoreBird22]

25 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

You have no clue what I do or don't do. You like to make up things and instead of taking responsibility for your made up stories deflect blame to others.

Okay, so what credibility do you have? Tell me what you do that makes you an expert.

[gabefergy]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Okay, so what credibility do you have? Tell me what you do that makes you an expert.

When did I say I was a expert again? 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

First link, the ball is way off of frame and he has to dive to catch the ball. Trying to extend and just catch with his hands would have made it a much lower % play.

Second link, the ball is at his waist and behind him. He had to turn to make the catch, extending backwards with just his hands turns it into a lower % play.

Third link, isn't over the middle, and is a ball once again underthrown, also he catches the ball with his hands and brings it in to his body. He doesn't let it into his body first.

Fourth link, terrible throw from the QB is behind the receiver, low, and thrown way to hard for a pass from 5 yards away.

Fifth link, once again not over the middle, but yes, this is a play where ideally he jumps up and catches the ball away from frame, although this is quite difficult for a receiver going full speed to stop, contort his body in attempt to highpoint. If the ball is placed better it's not an issue. Very few WRs have the body control to make this type of play consistently.

Sixth link, mistimed jump, not alligator armed. Still an extremely athletic play.

7th link, was the one time in 6 games the ball was accurately placed and he let it get into his body.

8th link is broken

9th link, another bad pass, low and behind the receiver, but it was one of the drops I noted before.

3 minutes ago, gabefergy said:

First link, the ball is way off of frame and he has to dive to catch the ball. Trying to extend and just catch with his hands would have made it a much lower % play.

Second link, the ball is at his waist and behind him. He had to turn to make the catch, extending backwards with just his hands turns it into a lower % play.

Third link, isn't over the middle, and is a ball once again underthrown, also he catches the ball with his hands and brings it in to his body. He doesn't let it into his body first.

Fourth link, terrible throw from the QB is behind the receiver, low, and thrown way to hard for a pass from 5 yards away.

Fifth link, once again not over the middle, but yes, this is a play where ideally he jumps up and catches the ball away from frame, although this is quite difficult for a receiver going full speed to stop, contort his body in attempt to highpoint. If the ball is placed better it's not an issue. Very few WRs have the body control to make this type of play consistently.

Sixth link, mistimed jump, not alligator armed. Still an extremely athletic play.

7th link, was the one time in 6 games the ball was accurately placed and he let it get into his body.

8th link is broken

9th link, another bad pass, low and behind the receiver, but it was one of the drops I noted before.

10th link, bad drop.

So yes, there are instances in which Coleman allows the ball get into his body, but as previously stated the vast marjority are plays where the ball is underthrown or thrown low and/or behind the receiver. Only 1 drop was on a ball that was not poorly placed. Could it be an issue at the next level? Yes, I believe it could be a problem on contested catches when Coleman has to make major adjustments to the ball. He will probably have some drops just like every other WR that ever played the game.

Am I specifically worried about plays over the middle? Not at all. 

 

 

1. He stops his comeback. He literally turns and stops. That would have been a very good YAC play had he actually worked back to the ball from the get-go. However, that play did not require a dive. He should have fully extended his arms, but he keeps his arms crunched into his body on those type of throws.
2. Not in front, but definitely not behind him. That's square in the chest, which is a play that can definitely be made with your hands without jumping into the air.
3. That's not a hands catch. He's allowing it to come into his chest, crunching his arms up, and turning his hands over to form a breadbasket, if you will. It's really not uncommon on those type of routes for him.
4. That's not even close to being behind him... It was a fast throw, but you still have to make that catch.
5. He still crunches up his arms and tries to wait for the ball to come to him. He does not try to go attack the ball.
6. Refer to the above.
7. Yeah, first time... Sounds about right.
9. That's not behind... It wasn't out in front, but similar to before, it's right there for him to make the play. 

I'm not surprised to see all these excuses. It's really not surprising coming from you with your love-fest. Not all of these throws are bad and as a soon to be professional NFL wide receiver, you are expected to catch the ball that hits your hands or is in your numbers. Not a single one of them was actually behind him to the point that he had to completely turn around. They may not have been the perfect throws, but you still have got to make the play. For someone who's supposed to be the number two receiver in this class, according to you, not making those plays is inexcusable. You said he's a top 15 talent, but he can't catch a pass that's at his hip every once in a while? I can create a whole slew of GIFs that show passes that were way too high or way too far behind, but all of these are passes he'd be expected to catch. 

I said I wouldn't reply, but wow, I'm shocked at the excuses you're making for him. 

[gabefergy]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

1. He stops his comeback. He literally turns and stops. That would have been a very good YAC play had he actually worked back to the ball from the get-go. However, that play did not require a dive. He should have fully extended his arms, but he keeps his arms crunched into his body on those type of throws.
2. Not in front, but definitely not behind him. That's square in the chest, which is a play that can definitely be made with your hands without jumping into the air.
3. That's not a hands catch. He's allowing it to come into his chest, crunching his arms up, and turning his hands over to form a breadbasket, if you will. It's really not uncommon on those type of routes for him.
4. That's not even close to being behind him... It was a fast throw, but you still have to make that catch.
5. He still crunches up his arms and tries to wait for the ball to come to him. He does not try to go attack the ball.
6. Refer to the above.
7. Yeah, first time... Sounds about right.
9. That's not behind... It wasn't out in front, but similar to before, it's right there for him to make the play. 

I'm not surprised to see all these excuses. It's really not surprising coming from you with your love-fest. Not all of these throws are bad and as a soon to be professional NFL wide receiver, you are expected to catch the ball that hits your hands or is in your numbers. Not a single one of them was actually behind him to the point that he had to completely turn around. They may not have been the perfect throws, but you still have got to make the play. For someone who's supposed to be the number two receiver in this class, according to you, not making those plays is inexcusable. You said he's a top 15 talent, but he can't catch a pass that's at his hip every once in a while? I can create a whole slew of GIFs that show passes that were way too high or way too far behind, but all of these are passes he'd be expected to catch. 

I said I wouldn't reply, but wow, I'm shocked at the excuses you're making for him. 

You're biased. It's obvious. That's fine. It's not worth arguing over. I'm not making excuses, I just have a better idea of what I'm looking at than you.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Well, that was an interesting read...

[BmoreBird22]

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 0:27 AM, gabefergy said:

1 hour ago, gabefergy said:

You're biased. It's obvious. That's fine. It's not worth arguing over. I'm not making excuses, I just have a better idea of what I'm looking at than you.

Admits to having no credibility, thinks he knows what he's looking at more than me. Makes total sense and that would be what's wrong with you.

[Moderator 3]

Less squabbling, please.  

[sflegend89]

On 2/12/2016 at 8:46 AM, GrimCoconut said:

I'm not calling anyone out here but I love how every WR who can run routes that has good hands is called another Antonio Brown. I hate comparing prospects to current pros unless we're saying the prospect could become like said comparison eventually. 

Antonio Brown and Michael Thomas isn't a good comparison and Corey Coleman may actually be a better comparison for Brown since both were fast players with great change of direction and YAC ability who could return the ball but needed work on their routes. I don't see Antonio Brown in Michael Thomas at all. 

 

You have to read the the full extent of what I wrote. I said his feet remind me of AB. That is FAR from a straight comparison to AB, just a tiny fraction within route running. Literally a sub category within a sub category. Please be more thorough as to not mis-represent what people have wrote. Clearly the two players are nothing like each other in a multitude of areas, Michael Thomas is nowhere near AB in terms of full on potential let alone the fact that they are completely different styles of players. It's not uncommon when scouting players to use very small excerpts of one's game in order to draw a comparison. If you watch Michael Thomas he has extremely quick feet going into his breaks, his foot speed on the onset of his routes is outstanding and you can see that in action against Kendall Fuller who is one of the best CB's in CFB.

That doesn't mean his agility is even close to on par with AB, or his lateral quickness, or his ability to accelerate in small spaces, or his shiftiness on his breaks, ect.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2016 by sflegend89

[Ravensfan23]

What's the book on Geronimo Allison? He seems to be a nice possession WR who runs strong routes and doesn't mind blocking in the run game. Long lanky WR who competes well for the ball.  Seems like a nice 4th or 5th round option. Wouldn't bring much speed to the offense(which is needed) but he'd bring a reliable red zone target and maybe even develop into a solid #2. Imo. Anyone know much about him?

[rmw10]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

What's the book on Geronimo Allison? He seems to be a nice possession WR who runs strong routes and doesn't mind blocking in the run game. Long lanky WR who competes well for the ball.  Seems like a nice 4th or 5th round option. Wouldn't bring much speed to the offense(which is needed) but he'd bring a reliable red zone target and maybe even develop into a solid #2. Imo. Anyone know much about him?

I know that he has an awesome first name.

[RavensFanMania]

5 hours ago, gabefergy said:

You're biased. It's obvious. That's fine. It's not worth arguing over. I'm not making excuses, I just have a better idea of what I'm looking at than you.

I agree with this point, 100% and it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. 

[DomMcRaven]

8 hours ago, rmw10 said:

I know that he has an awesome first name.

By the way, how is the WAG depth for this draft class. 

[thieverycorporation]

Sterling Shepard - WR -  Player

After doing his initial tape review of college wideout prospects, NFL.com's Matt Harmon came away believing Oklahoma's Sterling Shepard is "bar none" the best route runner in this year's receiver class.

Harmon is perhaps the premier wide receiver evaluator in media today. Shepard was an ultra-productive collegiate, tallying 233 career receptions and averaging 14.9 yards per catch. Harmon says Shepard has earned the title of "my favorite" wideout in the 2016 class, "showing great ability to execute even the most in-depth and nuanced aspects of route assignments like an NFL veteran." Harmon noted Shepard was especially successful versus man coverage in college. Only 5-foot-10, 193, Shepard figures to be a bit of a polarizing prospect due to his shortage of size. He's drawn comparisons ranging from Tyler Lockett to Antonio Brown.

 

 

Source: Backyard Banter 

Feb 14 - 10:32 AM

[Jacquouille]

19 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

What's the book on Geronimo Allison? He seems to be a nice possession WR who runs strong routes and doesn't mind blocking in the run game. Long lanky WR who competes well for the ball.  Seems like a nice 4th or 5th round option. Wouldn't bring much speed to the offense(which is needed) but he'd bring a reliable red zone target and maybe even develop into a solid #2. Imo. Anyone know much about him?

I like him a lot in the 4th or maybe later. Highly underrrated prospect imo, had to deal with a mediocre quaterback and was still able to pull insane grabs. You have to love his speed and fluidity, he kind of reminds me of a taller Emmanuel Sanders, don't know if I'm the only one.

[thieverycorporation]

4 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I like him a lot in the 4th or maybe later. Highly underrrated prospect imo, had to deal with a mediocre quaterback and was still able to pull insane grabs. You have to love his speed and fluidity, he kind of reminds me of a taller Emmanuel Sanders, don't know if I'm the only one.

I checked him out after your post and agree with you totally. Looks like a great chain mover via tape. thanks for the plug in

Edited February 14, 2016 by thieverycorporation
to say thank you

[JoeyFlex5]

so i finally got around to looking at rashard higgins and im impressed. good size and speed though not mind blowing, very tenacious player, good hands, will get nasty with anyone, willing but not great blocker, he pursues the ball something fierce and does a good job at some of the finer things, for instance running a drag he knows how to cut towards the LOS to create space for some YAC. i like his potential as a well rounded wr very much and id love to have him in the 3rd, his route running is not very impressive but he has very quick feet and great suddenness and i think he could be a stud route runner in no time. reminds me of nelson agholor a little bit who i still think is going to be very good once he gets his feet under him and his team gets itself together.

[Clmraven]

33 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

so i finally got around to looking at rashard higgins and im impressed. good size and speed though not mind blowing, very tenacious player, good hands, will get nasty with anyone, willing but not great blocker, he pursues the ball something fierce and does a good job at some of the finer things, for instance running a drag he knows how to cut towards the LOS to create space for some YAC. i like his potential as a well rounded wr very much and id love to have him in the 3rd, his route running is not very impressive but he has very quick feet and great suddenness and i think he could be a stud route runner in no time. reminds me of nelson agholor a little bit who i still think is going to be very good once he gets his feet under him and his team gets itself together.

Agree with a lot of this, I'm a fan of Higgins like you said he's not a perfect route runner but he's got some other little nuances down that makes me think he can develop into a good player. Plus he did all this out of a pro style offense that looks similar to trestmans scheme.

[Ravensfan23]

7 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I like him a lot in the 4th or maybe later. Highly underrrated prospect imo, had to deal with a mediocre quaterback and was still able to pull insane grabs. You have to love his speed and fluidity, he kind of reminds me of a taller Emmanuel Sanders, don't know if I'm the only one.

It'll be interesting to see what he runs at the combine. I think he's more quick and fluid then fast, but if he post in the 4.4 range he could really climb some draft boards. Saw an interview where he said he likes to model his game after Chad Johnson and AJ Green. Obviously pretty high caliber players and just because he models after them doesn't mean he'll perform like them, but I think he'll be a much better pro then he was in college. Really like his route running, especially paired with Perelman who's probably still raw in that area. 

[RaineV1]

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

so i finally got around to looking at rashard higgins and im impressed. good size and speed though not mind blowing, very tenacious player, good hands, will get nasty with anyone, willing but not great blocker, he pursues the ball something fierce and does a good job at some of the finer things, for instance running a drag he knows how to cut towards the LOS to create space for some YAC. i like his potential as a well rounded wr very much and id love to have him in the 3rd, his route running is not very impressive but he has very quick feet and great suddenness and i think he could be a stud route runner in no time. reminds me of nelson agholor a little bit who i still think is going to be very good once he gets his feet under him and his team gets itself together.

The fact that he plays with an aggressive attitude is one of the things I like most about him. I can see how he'd come off as a bit of a diva receiver at first, in no small part due to his nickname being Hollywood, but so far he has shown no fear of taking hits and pushing around DBs for the sake of making a play. I think he would be a great compliment to Perriman,

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

The fact that he plays with an aggressive attitude is one of the things I like most about him. I can see how he'd come off as a bit of a diva receiver at first, in no small part due to his nickname being Hollywood, but so far he has shown no fear of taking hits and pushing around DBs for the sake of making a play. I think he would be a great compliment to Perriman,

I'll admit I didn't even give him a chance because of his nickname, I disregarded him as a diva lol but I do like his game after giving him a look, looks like a potential high volume guy, lots of targets in every area of the field.

[GrimCoconut]

On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 2:29 PM, sflegend89 said:

 

You have to read the the full extent of what I wrote. I said his feet remind me of AB. That is FAR from a straight comparison to AB, just a tiny fraction within route running. Literally a sub category within a sub category. Please be more thorough as to not mis-represent what people have wrote. Clearly the two players are nothing like each other in a multitude of areas, Michael Thomas is nowhere near AB in terms of full on potential let alone the fact that they are completely different styles of players. It's not uncommon when scouting players to use very small excerpts of one's game in order to draw a comparison. If you watch Michael Thomas he has extremely quick feet going into his breaks, his foot speed on the onset of his routes is outstanding and you can see that in action against Kendall Fuller who is one of the best CB's in CFB.

That doesn't mean his agility is even close to on par with AB, or his lateral quickness, or his ability to accelerate in small spaces, or his shiftiness on his breaks, ect.

 

 

I wasn't calling anyone out here. I thought I made that clear. That wasn't sarcasm or rhetoric or anything. I'm just sick of that comparison people make with WR who can run routes and are sudden and fast coming out of college. I prefer comparing how prospects came out of college more than comparing an NFL professional to a college prospect. Sorry if you're offended. No offense intended. 

[JoeyFlex5]

7 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I wasn't calling anyone out here. I thought I made that clear. That wasn't sarcasm or rhetoric or anything. I'm just sick of that comparison people make with WR who can run routes and are sudden and fast coming out of college. I prefer comparing how prospects came out of college more than comparing an NFL professional to a college prospect. Sorry if you're offended. No offense intended. 

I personally think Phillip Dorsett and AB we're a fair comparison, as was perriman and DT. I think it's very easy to make those comparisons and at times it's lazy, I personally try to do like you say comparing a current prospect to a past prospect, rather than compare a prospect to a pro

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I personally think Phillip Dorsett and AB we're a fair comparison, as was perriman and DT. I think it's very easy to make those comparisons and at times it's lazy, I personally try to do like you say comparing a current prospect to a past prospect, rather than compare a prospect to a pro

Yeah I generally dislike comparisons now. I do think prospect comparisons are all well and good, and comparing someone's potential is fine. Everything else is eh

[CalvinSmoke]

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'll admit I didn't even give him a chance because of his nickname, I disregarded him as a diva lol but I do like his game after giving him a look, looks like a potential high volume guy, lots of targets in every area of the field.

Higgins can ball, and I love his confidence. He can be a really reliable player if he lands in the right spot.

[Edgar]

I know. Everyone likes Shepard but boy is he good. Reminds me in some ways of Derrick mason.routinely open.

[Mad Puppy]

Any opinions on Trajae Sharpe UMass WR

Can catch in traffic and supposedly runs the whole route tree. Also reports that he is humble and coachable.

Watching some of the online tape looks good, has speed, but is thin....

Impressed in shrine game and invited to senior bowl, but missed the game with Quad injury

Might be a later round WR that Ozzie takes a chance on.

[RavensFanMania]

On 2/18/2016 at 11:15 PM, Edgar said:

I know. Everyone likes Shepard but boy is he good. Reminds me in some ways of Derrick mason.routinely open.

Shepard has been my 2nd favorite WR prospect in the draft, right behind Judge Tread.  On a pure value, I'd prefer Shepard, since I'd rather focus on defense or Tunsil with our first round pick.