Joe Flacco

[BSHU_Miami]

problem = flacco is tall, has a big arm and throws jump balls. we dont have jump ball receivers.

weve known this years, we also know that joe is more efficient in the two minute drill and shot gun. Does our personal say so? Nooooooo, will the coaches have us uptempo? Only when we need to....its mind boggling

[FlackAttack]

weve known this years, we also know that joe is more efficient in the two minute drill and shot gun. Does our personal say so? Nooooooo, will the coaches have us uptempo? Only when we need to....its mind boggling

 

exactly. we've known this pretty much since his rookie year, yet we get rid of the one WR we finally got that fit his style perfect, and fail to replace. smh.

[beanfigger]

There is no clear answer here. When one was quite possibly a game altering throw, that's huge. I don't look at things in a vacuum. I see too many throws from Flacco that leave me uneasy. After 8 years, I shouldn't feel unsettled when he back to toss one deep. And don't get me started on his horrid attempts at throwing a fade into the EZ. He excels with throws to the sidelines, dump offs (but any schmuck can handle those) and your 15-20 yard middle of the field ball. But only when thrown with velocity. He lacks touch with the ball when having to feather or drop a ball in somewhere. All just my opinion here.

If they could all look like the pass he hit Senior with streaking down the sideline between two defenders...

I agree with you, though not so emphatically, about his strengths and weaknesses. To me, his biggest issues are with timing. This goes for understanding timing with any receiver not names Senior, but also within his own mechanics. He obviously has issues when rushed up the middle, but he also seems to have issues when he has too much time and overthinks it. On that last throw to Senior that would have been enough for OT, he tried to get too cute with it instead of just throwing it in rhythm and trusting his natural motion. He needs to set and deliver without too much "trying", if that makes sense.

[allblackraven]

Wait, the previous Flacco thread actually ended? When did this happen?

When Tyrod left in FA

[kassaiscool]

the dez bryants, calvin johnson, aj greens, deandre hopkins, aquan boldins, etc, etc, etc's of the world would disagree with you.

 

and he throws MANY contested jump balls that are catchable. and yes some are underthrown but they are still catchable. for example the dropped under thrown pass early in the game to aiken went right through his hands. any decent receiver should catch that. flacco simply doesnt have consistent weapon

 

Flacco deserves better receivers, I'm one of the few who brings up our undrafted free agent receiving core. But some of his passes to wide open receivers are just baffling. That pass to Aiken was so bad, Aiken had his guy beat by 5 yards and had to stop while the defender ran full speed towards him. Lucky for Aiken he didn't get concussed on that play. And the other pass to Steve Smith was thrown out of bounds when he was was wide open. In which he probably could have changed the entire outcome of the game. Hes constantly throwing high arching passes for no reason. If a guy is wide open gun it in there as soon as possible so the defender can't interfere. Its quite sad this problem has plagued him his whole career even though he has a strong arm. This is part of the reason we get so many PI calls with our receivers, he constantly underthrows passes and causes collisions.

[usmccharles]

I thnk its safe to say, this is who Joe is.  At times he will make such dumb, idiotic throws that make you wonder how he is a superbowl mvp...then sometimes he makes throws that make him look like he belongs in the mvp race.  I know every qb can have both types of those throws, but Joe is just an inconsistent qb that does great in the playoffs but inconsistent in the regular season, we know this.  He has proved that he can put the team on his shoulders and win us a game, but hes not going to do it week in and week out like brady or rodgers.  If Joe had any type of elite wr through his career maybe that could of helped him develope a little better, not saying Q wasnt awesome, but in no means was he a top wr in the nfl.  I dont think we will ever know what it would be like for Joe to have his "randy moss" because the Ravens just arent good at evaluating WRs.  Make no mistake though, Joe is my guy, im happy with him, but only because ive come to understand what kind of qb he is. 

 

sidenote- Joe shouldnt use his legs lot more than he does, his speed is underated for sure.  Also, it doesnt do any favors for Joe to have his OCs come and go,,,,

Edited September 21, 2015 by usmccharles

[RaineV1]

I think one issue is that Flacco is at his best running an up tempto offense that focuses on 5-20 yard passes with a particular focus on the tight end. While Kubiak had issues with adjusting in games, his offense fit Flacco like a glove. Trestman's playcalling though isn't really taking advantage of Flacco's strengths or the strengths of the other offensive players. Due to the issues at WR, we should be seeing more two tight end sets and more passes to the runningback out in space.

[jar2260]

Let's keep perspective, it wasn't beautiful, but we scored 33 points! We did that without having a good receiving corps.

Our defense is really struggling, again we don't have the greatest material to work with, but our defensive schemes don't help!

Historically are defense was noted for our aggressiveness, lots of pressure on the QB, now we have mediorce DB's, and no pressure on the QB. Let's get back to what we use to do best, HIT SOMEBODY!!!!!!

[3-4ravdef509]

There is no clear answer here. When one was quite possibly a game altering throw, that's huge. I don't look at things in a vacuum. I see too many throws from Flacco that leave me uneasy. After 8 years, I shouldn't feel unsettled when he back to toss one deep. And don't get me started on his horrid attempts at throwing a fade into the EZ. He excels with throws to the sidelines, dump offs (but any schmuck can handle those) and your 15-20 yard middle of the field ball. But only when thrown with velocity. He lacks touch with the ball when having to feather or drop a ball in somewhere. All just my opinion here.

Here's what's confusing to me: it's not like we in the ravens don't know who Joe Flacco is it this point. I mean, he sort it is what he hits, which is a good sometimes a great quarterback who can perform in the clutch and obviously can when you're Super Bowl. Somehow, I think someone in the front office or coaching has decided that Joe Flacco is to be like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers b The problem is that he isn't. And not many quarterbacks are, but a lot of quarterbacks are similar to Joe, in that with the right supporting cast they can win a Super Bowl. We saw the blueprint for what makes Joe successful, especially in the playoffs, back in 2012.

I know they got some players in the draft this year, but that notwithstanding, the front office has not done enough to give Joe the kind of supporting cast that he needs. We give him a giant contract, and then not the tools to live up to that contract. Not some might say that he wasn't worth that kind of money, but honestly that's the going rate for a good quarterback anymore, and it's not like we were going to let him go after he just won a Super Bowl. In all honesty, the front office should've given Joe what he wanted the year before, and they be better off financially now.

And honestly playing the what if game and the would I could have should have game doesn't interest me.

To me it simple, we know who Joe is, we know what it takes to make him successful, so why aren't we doing it? Why are we constantly asking him to do more with less? That's not excusing his play yesterday, which well for the most part was very good he missed on a couple key throws. Just a general observation of Joe and our offense since 2012.

Honestly, on the throws he missed yesterday, and his issues in general, I think it's a matter of him overthinking it and not just letting the game come naturally to him.

Edited September 21, 2015 by 3-4ravdef509

[Tru11]

Here's what's confusing to me: it's not like we in the ravens don't know who Joe Flacco is it this point. I mean, he sort it is what he hits, which is a good sometimes a great quarterback who can perform in the clutch and obviously can when you're Super Bowl. Somehow, I think someone in the front office or coaching has decided that Joe Flacco is to be like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers b The problem is that he isn't. And not many quarterbacks are, but a lot of quarterbacks are similar to Joe, in that with the right supporting cast they can win a Super Bowl. We saw the blueprint for what makes Joe successful, especially in the playoffs, back in 2012.

I know they got some players in the draft this year, but that notwithstanding, the front office has not done enough to give Joe the kind of supporting cast that he needs. We give him a giant contract, and then not the tools to live up to that contract. Not some might say that he wasn't worth that kind of money, but honestly that's the going rate for a good quarterback anymore, and it's not like we were going to let him go after he just won a Super Bowl. In all honesty, the front office should've given Joe what he wanted the year before, and they be better off financially now.

And honestly playing the what if game and the would I could have should have game doesn't interest me.

To me it simple, we know who Joe is, we know what it takes to make him successful, so why aren't we doing it? Why are we constantly asking him to do more with less? That's not excusing his play yesterday, which well for the most part was very good he missed on a couple key throws. Just a general observation of Joe and our offense since 2012.

Honestly, on the throws he missed yesterday, and his issues in general, I think it's a matter of him overthinking it and not just letting the game come naturally to him.

 

you either give him the tools and expect him to be like brady or rodgers or you build as good as a team you can and keep him like he is and just hope the coaches dont loose the balance when calling plays.

 

TBH its more fan driven that he has to be like rodgers.

 

every time its: trade up for 1 of the top rookies or trade for a stud WR and go on.

 

getting him weapons means it will take away from another position/unit which means he will have to carry a bigger burden.

 

becarefull what you wish for cause its pretty clear that 1 day they will love you but the next day they will hate you.

 

very few can keep their emotions in check and be objective lol.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Tru11

[jimmypowder]

problem = flacco is tall, has a big arm and throws jump balls. we dont have jump ball receivers.

That's on Trestman calling plays like he has the Bears receivers .

Way too many fades in the corner of the end zone .

[3-4ravdef509]

you either give him the tools and expect him to be like brady or rodgers or you build as good as a team you can and keep him like he is and just hope the coaches dont loose the balance when calling plays.

TBH its more fan driven that he has to be like rodgers.

every time its: trade up for 1 of the top rookies or trade for a stud WR and go on.

getting him weapons means it will take away from another position/unit which means he will have to carry a bigger burden.

becarefull what you wish for cause its pretty clear that 1 day they will love you but the next day they will hate you.

very few can keep their emotions in check and be objective lol.

Well from what I saw yesterday, doesn't seem like he is having a lesser burden to carry on the other side of the ball.

We don't need a stud. We don't need CJ or anyone that caliber. We need a Anquan Boldin and a Torrey Smith, and Dennis Pitta and an X-factor like Jacoby Jones. And a balanced running game to supplement.

[Tank 92]

highly inaccurate. football 101 @ WR position you learn starting in junior high that you come back to the ball. you have to adjust to the ball. WR 101. even at NFL level you'll see it with peyton manning, aaron rodgers, tom bradys WR's still have to attack the ball vast majority of the time.

Watch what you say here........the better QBs make stars out of garbage WRs. Didn't you know that? lol

I'm beginning to wonder if folks even watch other teams play. I think many are hyper critical of Flacco because they see every pass he throws and expect perfection. ALL QBs make bad throws at times and as you infer here the good WRs often bail them out. Even if they don't, the sometimes foolish looking incompletions occur even to the best of QBs.

Not sure if it will ever happen, but it would be nice to see two or three good, consistent WRs on the squad for a few years in a row where chemistry and timing could be developed.

[usmccharles]

Watch what you say here........the better QBs make stars out of garbage WRs. Didn't you know that? lol

I'm beginning to wonder if folks even watch other teams play. I think many are hyper critical of Flacco because they see every pass he throws and expect perfection. ALL QBs make bad throws at times and as you infer here the good WRs often bail them out. Even if they don't, the sometimes foolish looking incompletions occur even to the best of QBs.

Not sure if it will ever happen, but it would be nice to see two or three good, consistent WRs on the squad for a few years in a row where chemistry and timing could be developed.

That is a debate that will never end and honestly i dont even know where i stand on that.  Its hard to think that James Jones would be a TD machine anywhere else.  I guess it depends on the defnition of "star"  you want to use.   Im not going to say that Rodgers could make our WR roster look like ballers,  but it would be hard to imagine he doesnt get the job done a tad better, its a catch 22 imo

[stampedehero]

Joe is trying to get his groove and he did in the Raiders game.  However, they played up to and over us and we played down to their level. We lost two close games and Joe Flacco should not completely shoulder the responsiblity for these losses..  We just had bad karma with SSS missing and Darian Stewart intercepting Gil at the end . Hill had a great play but that holding call gave them the life needed for Carr to create his first masterpiece.  

[ravensdfan]

That is a debate that will never end and honestly i dont even know where i stand on that.  Its hard to think that James Jones would be a TD machine anywhere else.  I guess it depends on the defnition of "star"  you want to use.   Im not going to say that Rodgers could make our WR roster look like ballers,  but it would be hard to imagine he doesnt get the job done a tad better, its a catch 22 imo

But Jones is not the only target on that team. Coverage is given elsewhere and that opens him up. When they were forced to double team Gilmore, it opened up Aiken to make plays.

 

We just do not have talent in our receiving corps outside of Smith Sr who while still has that fire and talent, is still not the receiver he used to be. Take away Smith and we are left with #4 and #5 receivers. That is the difference.

 

When your #1 WR, and clearly the most talented, is a 36 yr old playing his pre-retirement season, you have not given your QB proper weapons.

Edited September 21, 2015 by ravensdfan

[FlackAttack]

peyton manning has arguably the best receiving core in the league. brady has gronk and edelman. packers have butt loads of talent in their receiving core.

 

sure, some QBs can make better players out of what they have, but if anyone actually compares the overall talent on our offense compared to the talent on the offense of teams like NE, green bay, and denver, there really is no argument.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't know how you put all of the blame on Joe, sure he missed some throws but this game isn't on him, the defense just gots to play better....PERIOD.

[BSHU_Miami]

What's going to happen of Smitty gets hurt? Then what? Smh

[balfan23]

We can just leave this thread up in perpetuity, until the day Joe retires. It will always be a topic ... people bashing, people defending. I can't imagine why, but for so many it just never gets old. 

[Wildabeast88]

That's on Trestman calling plays like he has the Bears receivers .

Way too many fades in the corner of the end zone .

yeah those throws need to go to Brown or Waller and use their size

[Wildabeast88]

But Jones is not the only target on that team. Coverage is given elsewhere and that opens him up. When they were forced to double team Gilmore, it opened up Aiken to make plays.

 

We just do not have talent in our receiving corps outside of Smith Sr who while still has that fire and talent, is still not the receiver he used to be. Take away Smith and we are left with #4 and #5 receivers. That is the difference.

 

When your #1 WR, and clearly the most talented, is a 36 yr old playing his pre-retirement season, you have not given your QB proper weapons.

I guess now starts the I wish Torrey was back thread

[Sami84]

peyton manning has arguably the best receiving core in the league. brady has gronk and edelman. packers have butt loads of talent in their receiving core.

 

sure, some QBs can make better players out of what they have, but if anyone actually compares the overall talent on our offense compared to the talent on the offense of teams like NE, green bay, and denver, there really is no argument.

 

if we had edleman he wouldnt be the player he is with brady.

[ravensdfan]

I guess now starts the I wish Torrey was back thread

Nah it was right to let him walk. He was not a #1 and lacked any fight. We needed Perriman to hit the field running and that didn't happen. Problem will be though that the FO will probably think if Perriman is successful we don't need to draft offense in the early rounds for another six years.

[FlackAttack]

if we had edleman he wouldnt be the player he is with brady.

 

i think you missed my point. brady has the weapons to utilize his talent and style of play. he can dink and dunk all day with guys like edelman and amendola then throw it up for gronk. they also picked up scott chandler which was a very underrated grab for them. they get talent and utilize them in the playcalling.

 

we do the complete opposite.

[redrum52]

I guess now starts the I wish Torrey was back thread

No. Replaced at a much cheaper for someone with a higher ceiling.

[1/28/01]

No matter what you think of Flacco and if you think he's elite, top 5, top 10 or whatever, kudos to the dude for turning it on at the most opportune time for himself. Its amazing the disparity from that 2012 playoff run to pretty much what we've seen every other season from him. He is an above average starting NFL QB, but that run was something special.

Oh yeah, can we see that more often, Joe? Please!!!

[BSHU_Miami]

No matter what you think of Flacco and if you think he's elite, top 5, top 10 or whatever, kudos to the dude for turning it on at the most opportune time for himself. Its amazing the disparity from that 2012 playoff run to pretty much what we've seen every other season from him. He is an above average starting NFL QB, but that run was something special.

Oh yeah, can we see that more often, Joe? Please!!!

we see it at the end of halves and during the last drive The 4th quarter consistently. Until our crappy butt defense gives up the lead.

[1/28/01]

we see it at the end of halves and during the last drive The 4th quarter consistently. Until our crappy butt defense gives up the lead.

Odd timing given yesterdays miscue to Sr...

[BSHU_Miami]

Odd timing given yesterdays miscue to Sr...

you point out one play, he still got the team the lead, btw Smitty could've toe tapped and it would've been a TD. It goes both ways, I'm looking at these insane catches by Julio and amedola last week. Nobody calls those bad throws because the Wr made a difficult play. Steve could've got his other foot down. Edited September 21, 2015 by BSHU_Miami