The Good, Bad and Ugly vs Raiders

[The Raven]

2013 was pretty poor and 2011 wasn't exceptional.

 

So two years out of 15.

[1/28/01]

So two years out of 15.

Sure. Was just stating that he can overcome a porous oline. His system and his strength (accuracy with the short pass to allow for YAC) covers some things up.

[1/28/01]

And I only looked at or could remember back a few years. Sure there are more.

Either way, I would love to have a quick ran offense with a quick release QB. With as many OCs as we've had and with that not really being Flacco's strength, don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

[Gordo52]

Remember Brady never really went off statically until his golden 8th season in 2007.... The game has clearly changed but he too has leaned on nice run games,defenses and the goat kicker in his career. Having arguably the goat HC has benifitted him as well.

I think what we're missing is the same old thing... A star, youthful play-making receiver. Someone who can make their own plays. Whether we haven't found one is because of drafting or coaching, I don't know, but the fact remains we still haven't seen a true young star at that position in our franchises history...Someone who can play like Jan 2012 Boldin but in their early 20's lol

Maybe if we get Joe someone like that, we can change our whole offense around...I cannot imagine having a player of Gronk/Dez caliber. Someone so good that coaching/QB play can't even hold em back......Can't have it all so If that means missing a star LG or DL, so be it. Get someone who defenses freaking fear, already.

Watching Cooper play and beat Jimmy made me so jelly...wish we could get excited about about a WR in the present-future. Hopefully Perriman shows us all something soon.

[jimmypowder]

I really think a Steve Smith,Torrey Smith,Perriman group would have been a killer this year. 

 

Tons of speed with Torrey and Perriman. 

 

Oh well. 

[rmcjacket23]

I really think a Steve Smith,Torrey Smith,Perriman group would have been a killer this year. 

 

Tons of speed with Torrey and Perriman. 

 

Oh well. 

Speed is largely overrated at the WR position.

 

Some of most prolific passing games in this league have well below average speed.

[January J]

Speed is largely overrated at the WR position.

Some of most prolific passing games in this league have well below average speed.

that's because other teams are good at the dink and dunk game. We are not. This offense needs speed. Flacco needs deep threats. To have multiple threats would be great , but id prefer a guy who has speed and a guy who can get open that has hands. Once perriman returns we will have both of those which will hopefully open things up for the offense. I'm thinking a lot of the plays trestman has under his hat involve perriman, and when he realized he wasn't going to be available for the first couple games he had to regroup, which could be why the playcalling has been somewhat vanilla. For some reason this team doesn't seem to be very good at having "plan Bs"

[rmcjacket23]

that's because other teams are good at the dink and dunk game. We are not. This offense needs speed. Flacco needs deep threats. To have multiple threats would be great , but id prefer a guy who has speed and a guy who can get open that has hands. Once perriman returns we will have both of those which will hopefully open things up for the offense. I'm thinking a lot of the plays trestman has under his hat involve perriman, and when he realized he wasn't going to be available for the first couple games he had to regroup, which could be why the playcalling has been somewhat vanilla. For some reason this team doesn't seem to be very good at having "plan Bs"

Why exactly do they need them or does Joe need them? Isn't this entire "we need speed" premise based solely on the fact that Joe has a lot of arm strength, despite not really being that accurate with it?

 

Not saying speed isn't valuable and that we don't need it, but nobody ever seems to be able to explain why its so vital to the offense and why we seemingly can't function without it. There's plenty of QBs in this league with arms similar to Flacco's that do just fine without consistent deep threats.

 

Feels like for some reason since 2012 fans have developed this stigma that we are a vertical offense that requires lots of speed on the outside in order to succeed, and without it we fail.

[jimmypowder]

Speed is largely overrated at the WR position.

 

Some of most prolific passing games in this league have well below average speed.

You are wrong as you always are. 

[rmcjacket23]

You are wrong as you always are. 

See Patriots, New England

See Broncos, Denver

See Packers, Green Bay

See Saints, New Orleans

 

You're up. 

[arnie_uk]

See Patriots, New England

See Broncos, Denver

See Packers, Green Bay

See Saints, New Orleans

You're up.

not so side with anyone but the Broncos have a lot of speed. GB have a good amount. Patriots don't, NO always have had speed, not sure about this year, but the offense has been crap thus far

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Elite is reserved for the best of the best; the top 3 or 5 in the league. If you think Joe falls into that, awesome. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, right or wrong.

Well, its hard to argue with the facts. Facts are stubborn. FACT: Most of Joe's greatest & favorite Go-To weapons have been taken away from him since our SB run in 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong but

those weapons include Ray Rice, Dennis Pitta, Owen Daniels, Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin and Jacoby

Jones, not to mention an All-Pro center. And all of those weapons were replaced by whom? Steve Smith & Justin Forsett, right???? Yeah, I'd say he's definitely elite and Donald Trump, among others, would agree. Despite the loss of all these offensive players, he played the last two seasons without some pretty good defensive players, including Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, just to name a couple. Now, he's playing w/o Ngata and Suggs. FACT: Were it not for a horrific dropped pass in the end-zone in 2011 in Foxboro by someone called Lee Evans, Joe would have been in his 1st SB and surely would have soundly defeated the NY Giants. FACT: Were it not for the keystone cops secondary we had last year (who were comical at times) , Joe would have been playing in his 3rd SB in 7 seasons with our team. Yes, it was the elite Joe Flacco who led us to two 14 point leads in the AFC Championship Game. FACT: Despite losing so many weapons who have been replaced by one very outstanding veteran, SSS, and a fortuitous find in Forsett plus several other castoffs from other NFL teams, Joe has had his team in position to win both of first two games on the road this year only to watch the defense fail when the games were on the line. FACT:  Our final record in 2005 was 6-10. The only reason our record will be better than that this year is because we have one of the best QBs in the NFL on our team. He is capable of throwing the ball 70 yards in the air when he has someone who is fast enough to get upfield and catch his effortless bombs. Last year it was Torrey Smith; I hope it will be Breshad Perriman sooner rather than later for Joe's sake. Alternatively, our organization should deal "His Eliteness" to another team whose fans appreciate his gifted skill set rather than to have him subjected to the criticism he receives here in BMore from a lot of spoiled and ungrateful fans. FACT: Joe's elite by your own definition, not mine. After this year's two Super Bowl QBs --- Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady --- who's any better than Joe. The answer is NOBODY. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by frozen joe flacco fan

[-Truth-]

not so side with anyone but the Broncos have a lot of speed. GB have a good amount. Patriots don't, NO always have had speed, not sure about this year, but the offense has been crap thus far

 

Like you, I'm not choosing a side in the debate and I'm not certain what the criteria is, but I have to agree with regards to Denver and New Orleans. Demaryius Thomas and Brandin Cooks have some wheels on them. A few back ups like Cody Latimer and Joe Morgan could be thrown into the conversation as well, though they're not elite burners.

[FlackAttack]

See Patriots, New England

See Broncos, Denver

See Packers, Green Bay

See Saints, New Orleans

 

You're up. 

 

wait, wait.. are you saying these teams lack speed at WR's? lol youre kidding right?

 

broncos, green bay and new orleans have nothing but speed and talent at the WR position. and NE has the perfect combo of WR's and tight ends for their dink and dunk playcalling. what a bad argument.

Edited September 23, 2015 by FlackAttack

[Ravens4Real]

Well, its hard to argue with the facts. Facts are stubborn. FACT: Most of Joe's greatest & favorite Go-To weapons have been taken away from him since our SB run in 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong but

those weapons include Ray Rice, Dennis Pitta, Owen Daniels, Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin and Jacoby

Jones, not to mention an All-Pro center. And all of those weapons were replaced by whom? Steve Smith & Justin Forsett, right???? Yeah, I'd say he's definitely elite and Donald Trump, among others, would agree. Despite the loss of all these offensive players, he played the last two seasons without some pretty good defensive players, including Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, just to name a couple. Now, he's playing w/o Ngata and Suggs. FACT: Were it not for a horrific dropped pass in the end-zone in 2011 in Foxboro by someone called Lee Evans, Joe would have been in his 1st SB and surely would have soundly defeated the NY Giants. FACT: Were it not for the keystone cops secondary we had last year (who were comical at times) , Joe would have been playing in his 3rd SB in 7 seasons with our team. Yes, it was the elite Joe Flacco who led us to two 14 point leads in the AFC Championship Game. FACT: Despite losing so many weapons who have been replaced by one very outstanding veteran, SSS, and a fortuitous find in Forsett plus several other castoffs from other NFL teams, Joe has had his team in position to win both of first two games on the road this year only to watch the defense fail when the games were on the line. FACT: Our final record in 2005 was 6-10. The only reason our record will be better than that this year is because we have one of the best QBs in the NFL on our team. He is capable of throwing the ball 70 yards in the air when he has someone who is fast enough to get upfield and catch his effortless bombs. Last year it was Torrey Smith; I hope it will be Breshad Perriman sooner rather than later for Joe's sake. Alternatively, our organization should deal "His Eliteness" to another team whose fans appreciate his gifted skill set rather than to have him subjected to the criticism he receives here in BMore from a lot of spoiled and ungrateful fans. FACT: Joe's elite by your own definition, not mine. After this year's two Super Bowl QBs --- Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady --- who's any better than Joe. The answer is NOBODY.

You want to find out how fast someone stops reading your posts. Reference Donald Trump in regards to a subject on football.

[-Truth-]

I just read a post above stating that Joe Flacco had the team in position to win the Denver game and then our defense failed us when the game was on the line. We were up 13 to 9 before the pick six, a lead that the offense never overcame. Our defense yielded 12 points, 6 of which came on FGs from 56+ yards, a very difficult feat. They also brought us 7 points with the INT TD. I'm all for viewing scenarios from different angles, but blaming the first loss on the defense is a rather bold move.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

I just read a post above stating that Joe Flacco had the team in position to win the Denver game and then our defense failed us when the game was on the line. We were up 13 to 9 before the pick six, a lead that the offense never overcame. Our defense yielded 12 points, 6 of which came on FGs from 56+ yards, a very difficult feat. They also brought us 7 points with the INT TD. I'm all for viewing scenarios from different angles, but blaming the first loss on the defense is a rather bold move

 

Can you handle the truth, Truth? Re-wind the tape of the game and back it up to a critical sequence when our D gave up a 1st down on a 3rd & 18 deep in Denver territory. Also, our D allowed two long, sustained drives (one set a record for the longest drive in Peyton's illustrious career). The last drive left us with very little time in the game. Yes, the D played well against an aging superstar who can barely throw a deep ball anymore with any type of consistency. So, there it is. Yes, in spite of the above, Joe woulda been the hero had it not been for two dropped balls on the final drive. And as for the D, they need to get off the field so Joe can do his thing which is for the moment to make a cast of mediocre receivers look much better than they are.  

[frozen joe flacco fan]

You want to find out how fast someone stops reading your posts. Reference Donald Trump in regards to a subject on football.

 

 For real?!!!! Nobody is forcing you to read my posts. I quoted Donald Trump because he was quoted as saying Joe Flacco is elite. The last I heard this is a free country and he is entitled to his opinion and so am I. Read my lips ---- Joe Flacco is elite 4 Real!!!!!!!

[jimmypowder]

See Patriots, New England

See Broncos, Denver

See Packers, Green Bay

See Saints, New Orleans

You're up.

See Brady

See Manning

See Rodgers

See Brees

Your up

[jimmypowder]

not so side with anyone but the Broncos have a lot of speed. GB have a good amount. Patriots don't, NO always have had speed, not sure about this year, but the offense has been crap thus far

This guy never knows what's he's talking about . You are correct

Edited September 23, 2015 by jimmypowder

[-Truth-]

Can you handle the truth, Truth? Re-wind the tape of the game and back it up to a critical sequence when our D gave up a 1st down on a 3rd & 18 deep in Denver territory. Also, our D allowed two long, sustained drives (one set a record for the longest drive in Peyton's illustrious career). The last drive left us with very little time in the game. Yes, the D played well against an aging superstar who can barely throw a deep ball anymore with any type of consistency. So, there it is. Yes, in spite of the above, Joe woulda been the hero had it not been for two dropped balls on the final drive. And as for the D, they need to get off the field so Joe can do his thing which is for the moment to make a cast of mediocre receivers look much better than they are.  

 

I see; we utilize the overused quote to establish some false sense of superiority. That's never been done before and is not wholly transparent so I congratulate you there. Let's side step the fact that I'm contending against what is one of the more thoroughly bias and absurd assessments that I've read on this forum and treat this as a legitimate debate. Are you and I referring to the same contest? Because there was a single 3rd and 18 attempt in the entire game and it was followed by an 8 yard gain by C.J. Anderson and a subsequent punt. Could you perhaps be referring to the 3rd and 11 much earlier in the game wherein Peyton Manning found Emmanuel Sanders for 18 yards, the same drive that also ended in a punt? You're implying that a drive by the opposing offense that ended in a forced punt is apparently in the same stratosphere in terms of influencing the outcome as the interception that directly led to a defensive touchdown and a change in the lead that was never overcome. Marvelous.

 

You are correct. The defense, which was on the field literally almost twice the amount of the offense given its counterpart did next to nothing to sustain drives prior to the final drive, allowed a 17 play drive. That drive yielded just 3 points and allowed roughly 3 minutes on the clock with two stoppages and a single score deficit. Speaking of which, it was obviously enough given that you've just criticized Steve Smith Sr. and Crockett Gilmore for dropping two potential game-winning TDs. I assume I don't have to spell it out for your that you've just sabotaged your own point about the defense by doing so given that they clearly got off the field with enough time for Flacco to "do his thing" as we had 6 plays in their red-zone alone in what was the first time the offense reached the 20 yard marker throughout the entire 60 minutes. I doubt anyone put the blame of the game entirely on a single entity, but it's both mind-numbing and baseless to pretend that the defense took away the opportunity to win which Flacco presented them with considering how porous the offense was, which even Flacco openly alluded to in the post-game conference. Nevermind the fact that we had the lead prior to our pick six because the defense scored the TD. Please try again.

[daaron16]

losing to the Raiders...pretty pathetic

 

Season isn't over but we need to get our stuff together

Bring in Wes welker

[BmoreBird22]

3 picks one lost fumble . if Flacco had done this he would be crucified here by the haters.

Probably, but then again, the Jets have an extremely talented defense 

[jimmypowder]

Probably, but then again, the Jets have an extremely talented defense

So does Denver

[BmoreBird22]

So does Denver

and people cut Joe quite a bit of slack

[Cillmatic]

Lorenzo Taliferro is injuried...Again.

[1/28/01]

Well, its hard to argue with the facts. Facts are stubborn. FACT: Most of Joe's greatest & favorite Go-To weapons have been taken away from him since our SB run in 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong but

those weapons include Ray Rice, Dennis Pitta, Owen Daniels, Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin and Jacoby

Jones, not to mention an All-Pro center. And all of those weapons were replaced by whom? Steve Smith & Justin Forsett, right???? Yeah, I'd say he's definitely elite and Donald Trump, among others, would agree. Despite the loss of all these offensive players, he played the last two seasons without some pretty good defensive players, including Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, just to name a couple. Now, he's playing w/o Ngata and Suggs. FACT: Were it not for a horrific dropped pass in the end-zone in 2011 in Foxboro by someone called Lee Evans, Joe would have been in his 1st SB and surely would have soundly defeated the NY Giants. FACT: Were it not for the keystone cops secondary we had last year (who were comical at times) , Joe would have been playing in his 3rd SB in 7 seasons with our team. Yes, it was the elite Joe Flacco who led us to two 14 point leads in the AFC Championship Game. FACT: Despite losing so many weapons who have been replaced by one very outstanding veteran, SSS, and a fortuitous find in Forsett plus several other castoffs from other NFL teams, Joe has had his team in position to win both of first two games on the road this year only to watch the defense fail when the games were on the line. FACT: Our final record in 2005 was 6-10. The only reason our record will be better than that this year is because we have one of the best QBs in the NFL on our team. He is capable of throwing the ball 70 yards in the air when he has someone who is fast enough to get upfield and catch his effortless bombs. Last year it was Torrey Smith; I hope it will be Breshad Perriman sooner rather than later for Joe's sake. Alternatively, our organization should deal "His Eliteness" to another team whose fans appreciate his gifted skill set rather than to have him subjected to the criticism he receives here in BMore from a lot of spoiled and ungrateful fans. FACT: Joe's elite by your own definition, not mine. After this year's two Super Bowl QBs --- Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady --- who's any better than Joe. The answer is NOBODY.

Cool. He's not a top 3 or 5 QB.

[1/28/01]

I see; we utilize the overused quote to establish some false sense of superiority. That's never been done before and is not wholly transparent so I congratulate you there. Let's side step the fact that I'm contending against what is one of the more thoroughly bias and absurd assessments that I've read on this forum and treat this as a legitimate debate. Are you and I referring to the same contest? Because there was a single 3rd and 18 attempt in the entire game and it was followed by an 8 yard gain by C.J. Anderson and a subsequent punt. Could you perhaps be referring to the 3rd and 11 much earlier in the game wherein Peyton Manning found Emmanuel Sanders for 18 yards, the same drive that also ended in a punt? You're implying that a drive by the opposing offense that ended in a forced punt is apparently in the same stratosphere in terms of influencing the outcome as the interception that directly led to a defensive touchdown and a change in the lead that was never overcome. Marvelous.

You are correct. The defense, which was on the field literally almost twice the amount of the offense given its counterpart did next to nothing to sustain drives prior to the final drive, allowed a 17 play drive. That drive yielded just 3 points and allowed roughly 3 minutes on the clock with two stoppages and a single score deficit. Speaking of which, it was obviously enough given that you've just criticized Steve Smith Sr. and Crockett Gilmore for dropping two potential game-winning TDs. I assume I don't have to spell it out for your that you've just sabotaged your own point about the defense by doing so given that they clearly got off the field with enough time for Flacco to "do his thing" as we had 6 plays in their red-zone alone in what was the first time the offense reached the 20 yard marker throughout the entire 60 minutes. I doubt anyone put the blame of the game entirely on a single entity, but it's both mind-numbing and baseless to pretend that the defense took away the opportunity to win which Flacco presented them with considering how porous the offense was, which even Flacco openly alluded to in the post-game conference. Nevermind the fact that we had the lead prior to our pick six because the defense scored the TD. Please try again.

Awesomely awesome! Thanks for this!

[52520Andrew]

I just read a post above stating that Joe Flacco had the team in position to win the Denver game and then our defense failed us when the game was on the line. We were up 13 to 9 before the pick six, a lead that the offense never overcame. Our defense yielded 12 points, 6 of which came on FGs from 56+ yards, a very difficult feat. They also brought us 7 points with the INT TD. I'm all for viewing scenarios from different angles, but blaming the first loss on the defense is a rather bold move.

Yeah the defense did great that game. The biggest problem I had with the defense that game was the last drive where they churned clock and kicked that field goal. The field goal and the time they burnt off hurt a lot. I think we even had them pinned back at the start of the drive. Either way, when you give up 12 points to them and get 7 of your own, it is a pretty good performance, just a shame it wasn't enough. Blaming the loss on a unit that does that though doesn't make much sense to me either.

[flynismo]

I just read a post above stating that Joe Flacco had the team in position to win the Denver game and then our defense failed us when the game was on the line. We were up 13 to 9 before the pick six, a lead that the offense never overcame. Our defense yielded 12 points, 6 of which came on FGs from 56+ yards, a very difficult feat. They also brought us 7 points with the INT TD. I'm all for viewing scenarios from different angles, but blaming the first loss on the defense is a rather bold move.

Bold is a generous way of putting it....the only unit on the field who did less to win that game than Denver's offense was our offense