The Good, Bad and Ugly vs Raiders

[Militant X 1]

LOL your friend is full of it. The Ravens were actually a fairly popular SB pick this year. 6th highest odds in Vegas at the start of the season. Looking pretty bad now.

 

Of course he is full of it...he's a Cowboys fan....aren't they all?  Lol!  He thinks that because the Cowboys is the most valued franchise that any team below them are "small market".  But that doesn't negate the fact that the Ravens gameplay for the past 2 weeks have been piss poor.

 

Sounds like Karma, gonna be a long season for his team. 

 

Exactly!  Down goes Romo and Dez!  Lol!

[jimmypowder]

Luck is stinking the joint up against the Jets tonight but I never hear anyone bash him like they bash

Flacco ,including the media .

[BmoreBird22]

Luck is stinking the joint up against the Jets tonight but I never hear anyone bash him like they bash Flacco ,including the media .

Well, in his defense, this is similar to when the Ravens played the Broncos. No one should be surprised that Luck is struggling against a defense with that much talent. That defense is legit.

[Edgar]

As a frequent flacco apologist, I find myself more critical of him early in this season and I think I know why:

Every preseason for the last five years we hear how there is something different about joe. His demeanor, his command of the huddle, his pre-snap intuition, his command of the offense,etc.

The thing is, he never changes much. I have to wrap my head around how it is he continues to be an inconsistent thrower of the deep ball, forces throws and turns the ball over, seems to wake up in certain games when it is nearly too late,etc.

But for all his maddening, inexplicable what is he doing moments, he plays great in crunch time, won one super bowl so far(I do think he'll get another) and is the best quarterback we have ever had. Just don't expect him to change.

[ravensdan]

In defense of the secondary, the pass rush was non existent and the defensive line looked like they had no interest in playing.

Oh you're right. I went on record saying we have the best interior Dline and they made that statement look silly. Really not a good game up front. Sloppy overall. And the Jernigan penalty the icing on the cake. The Raiders do not have a really talented Oline or anything. They just stole our lunch money.

[GrimCoconut]

Oh you're right. I went on record saying we have the best interior Dline and they made that statement look silly. Really not a good game up front. Sloppy overall. And the Jernigan penalty the icing on the cake. The Raiders do not have a really talented Oline or anything. They just stole our lunch money.

I really disagree with this. If anything, their OL is probably the best part of their offense. That's a good OL. Penn is old but he still protects well. Jackson was a great rookie for them and is continuing to look good. Hudson was a very good player for the Chiefs and he still looks good. Webb is iffy and Howard may not be the player he was a couple years ago, but this is far from a non-talented OL. 

[GrimCoconut]

In defense of the secondary, the pass rush was non existent and the defensive line looked like they had no interest in playing.

I think it would've been a different game had the DL actually decided to win the LOS & the POA. They seemed mostly undisciplined. That's my biggest gripe. The DL did not have discipline out there.

[ravensdfan]

Luck is stinking the joint up against the Jets tonight but I never hear anyone bash him like they bash Flacco ,including the media .

Nope they make excuses for him all time. "he has no O line" "he has no defense" "he has no running game". Take your pick because I've seen them all.

 

I think he did not do so well last week either.

 

 

But he won them their fantasy league last year so he's awesome!

Edited September 22, 2015 by ravensdfan

[ravensdfan]

As a frequent flacco apologist, I find myself more critical of him early in this season and I think I know why:

Every preseason for the last five years we hear how there is something different about joe. His demeanor, his command of the huddle, his pre-snap intuition, his command of the offense,etc.

The thing is, he never changes much. I have to wrap my head around how it is he continues to be an inconsistent thrower of the deep ball, forces throws and turns the ball over, seems to wake up in certain games when it is nearly too late,etc.

But for all his maddening, inexplicable what is he doing moments, he plays great in crunch time, won one super bowl so far(I do think he'll get another) and is the best quarterback we have ever had. Just don't expect him to change.

There is something different about Joe every year. His receiving corps, his O line, his QB coach, his OC. I mean really, we expect Joe to be consistent and have instant chemistry with constantly changing pieces every single solitary season, and mediocre pieces at that.

[Static]

There is something different about Joe every year. His receiving corps, his O line, his QB coach, his OC. I mean really, we expect Joe to be consistent and have instant chemistry with constantly changing pieces every single solitary season, and mediocre pieces at that.

 

Post of the year. Harbs and Yanda has been the only consistency around Joe.

[Militant X 1]

There is something different about Joe every year. His receiving corps, his O line, his QB coach, his OC. I mean really, we expect Joe to be consistent and have instant chemistry with constantly changing pieces every single solitary season, and mediocre pieces at that.

 

True!  But Joe himself always say none of the things affect him!  So, believe the man and call a spade a spade!  If he plays well great!  And if he plays badly at times or makes bad throws, stop feeling that he's beyond being criticized because, "He's the best QB the Ravens have ever had" as some in here love to keep saying.  I couldn't care less about that!

 

I for one, think that Joe played pretty good yesterday versus the Raiders MINUS a few over and under throws to open receivers which seem to be consistent throughout his career as a starting QB in the league.

[Static]

I can't believe we're still talking about Joe.

 

 

WE SHOULD NOT NEED 4TDS AND 400YARDS TO WIN. PERIOD.

[The Raven]

I really disagree with this. If anything, their OL is probably the best part of their offense. That's a good OL. Penn is old but he still protects well. Jackson was a great rookie for them and is continuing to look good. Hudson was a very good player for the Chiefs and he still looks good. Webb is iffy and Howard may not be the player he was a couple years ago, but this is far from a non-talented OL. 

 

Agreed, and honestly, I think the Raiders are a dark horse this year. They're going to be very relevant very soon. They have a very talented core of players on both sides of the ball. Derek Carr, Latavius Murray, Amari Cooper, Gabe Jackson, and Mychal Rivera are all good players on offense. On defense, TJ Carrie, Khalil Mack, Dan Williams, Curtis Lofton, and DJ Hayden are all talented ball players. In my book, this Raider team, is not the laughing stock they have been. They're very close to becoming a good team. 

[baroquenspirit]

Luck is stinking the joint up against the Jets tonight but I never hear anyone bash him like they bash Flacco ,including the media .

Luck is a media darling, but to be honest I don't hear the media bash Joe, they just don't hype him. 

[baroquenspirit]

Agreed, and honestly, I think the Raiders are a dark horse this year. They're going to be very relevant very soon. They have a very talented core of players on both sides of the ball. Derek Carr, Latavius Murray, Amari Cooper, Gabe Jackson, and Mychal Rivera are all good players on offense. On defense, TJ Carrie, Khalil Mack, Dan Williams, Curtis Lofton, and DJ Hayden are all talented ball players. In my book, this Raider team, is not the laughing stock they have been. They're very close to becoming a good team. 

That's an interesting take. They do have a nice core of young players. 

[ravensdan]

I really disagree with this. If anything, their OL is probably the best part of their offense. That's a good OL. Penn is old but he still protects well. Jackson was a great rookie for them and is continuing to look good. Hudson was a very good player for the Chiefs and he still looks good. Webb is iffy and Howard may not be the player he was a couple years ago, but this is far from a non-talented OL.

Penn I will give you good. Not great. Jackson pretty up and down but I'll give you that side is solid. Webb has been a well below average player. Howard and Hudson looked really bad against the Bengals. Yeah there's some vets there playing for pride but I would be very surprised if this unit is not well below average throughout the year.

[1/28/01]

There is something different about Joe every year. His receiving corps, his O line, his QB coach, his OC. I mean really, we expect Joe to be consistent and have instant chemistry with constantly changing pieces every single solitary season, and mediocre pieces at that.

Curious, have you ever criticised Flacco? Is he infallible?

[ravensdfan]

True!  But Joe himself always say none of the things affect him!  So, believe the man and call a spade a spade!  If he plays well great!  And if he plays badly at times or makes bad throws, stop feeling that he's beyond being criticized because, "He's the best QB the Ravens have ever had" as some in here love to keep saying.  I couldn't care less about that!

 

I for one, think that Joe played pretty good yesterday versus the Raiders MINUS a few over and under throws to open receivers which seem to be consistent throughout his career as a starting QB in the league.

He would never say even if they did affect him. Truth is it is bound to have some affect.

 

Curious, have you ever criticised Flacco? Is he infallible?

Nope not infallible. Have you ever NOT criticized him outside of his SB run? Have we ever had one week where he did not receive criticism outside of that run? Shoot, I can probably go back and find criticsms even then.

 

But a defense that gave up a 28-6 lead is the reason we won that SB. (recent post in another thread and one I see often). He receives an unfair amount of criticism and on a week when the offense is the sole reason we even had any chance at all to win that game it is ridiculous.

Edited September 22, 2015 by ravensdfan

[1/28/01]

He would never say even if they did affect him. Truth is it is bound to have some affect.

Nope not infallible. Have you ever NOT criticized him outside of his SB run? Have we ever had one week where he did not receive criticism outside of that run? Shoot, I can probably go back and find criticsms even then.

But a defense that gave up a 28-6 lead is the reason we won that SB. (recent post in another thread and one I see often). He receives an unfair amount of criticism and on a week when the offense is the sole reason we even had any chance at all to win that game it is ridiculous.

Funny, I even said he didn't play poorly yesterday. But ALL you ever hear or pay attention to is the one or two parts of negativity from someone. It's hilarious.

[Ravensfan23]

We are definitely missing a Perriman like player for this offense and Williams just is not quite ready or got outshined right now by Gilmore, not sure which is a fact. If they are as advertised you could be right that Aiken & Brown will be enough of a supporting cast. I guess the point I was trying to make is it should not have taken us 8 years. That guy - not a 36 yr old - should have been here already. We knew pretty early that Torrey was not going to be that guy. I watch all these other teams build their supporting cast - shoot the Bengals gave Dalton a feast, Dalton! - but we just sit with the status quo and then want to criticize Flacco when he gets little help outside of Smith Sr or because he feeds him since that is who he trusts. Flacco said it best last week about the INT play to Smith Sr. "I knew he had a one on one match-up and you gotta trust Steve in those situations. This time it didn't work out."  As much as Flacco says he trusts these guys - I don't see him spreading it out as much as he always has in the past.

Well to be fair this past game was about as much win as you can get in week 2, so i can't reallu fault Joe for targeting Smitty as much. But i would definitely like to see him give other guys opportunities if nothing more then to quiet some of the negative chatter around them and allow them to play free. Week 1 was basically a bye for the passing game so it's hard to judge anything from that game.

As far as how long it's taking so long to build it, i honestly think the issue was in the OC position not the personnel as much. I think it was clear early that Torrey wasn't a #1 WR but i think he was a solid #2 and good compliment to both Q and Smitty. Nobody expected the injuries that slowed down Rice and Pitta. Obviously more to Rice not being here. If you can hit on the few key positions you can effectively build around them more. My problem is the changes at OC every year and not really having a creative guy there to start with. One of the biggest reasonvi liked the Trestman hire before knowing about his offense was the fact that he pretty much flamed out as a HC and might stick around for a while. Now seeing the offense i love the creativity of it. It's tough to hitch your wagon to two rookies at skills position but if they hit along with Taliaferro, that's a nice young trio that will be with Flacco for a while. The key is keeping Trestman around so Flacco and all those guys can be on the same page all the time. I'm not one who feels that Flacco needs to host passing camps it i do think it's a huge advantage to having great chemistry like Flacco and Pitta had. But it takes time.

[ravensdfan]

Funny, I even said he didn't play poorly yesterday. But ALL you ever hear or pay attention to is the one or two parts of negativity from someone. It's hilarious.

And funny, because I already stated they were bad passes and decisions but you only pay attention to what you choose. I have no issue with saying they were bad passes - I have the issue with saying "hey if he only...we would have won" when if he does not play as well as he did play, we have zero chance to ever win that game.

 

Criticism at the time it is happening, like in the game thread is one thing. Continued criticism and harping on it on a day he played well overall is over the top and not saying you are one of those people. Just in general.

[ravensdfan]

Well to be fair this past game was about as much win as you can get in week 2, so i can't reallu fault Joe for targeting Smitty as much. But i would definitely like to see him give other guys opportunities if nothing more then to quiet some of the negative chatter around them and allow them to play free. Week 1 was basically a bye for the passing game so it's hard to judge anything from that game.

As far as how long it's taking so long to build it, i honestly think the issue was in the OC position not the personnel as much. I think it was clear early that Torrey wasn't a #1 WR but i think he was a solid #2 and good compliment to both Q and Smitty. Nobody expected the injuries that slowed down Rice and Pitta. Obviously more to Rice not being here. If you can hit on the few key positions you can effectively build around them more. My problem is the changes at OC every year and not really having a creative guy there to start with. One of the biggest reasonvi liked the Trestman hire before knowing about his offense was the fact that he pretty much flamed out as a HC and might stick around for a while. Now seeing the offense i love the creativity of it. It's tough to hitch your wagon to two rookies at skills position but if they hit along with Taliaferro, that's a nice young trio that will be with Flacco for a while. The key is keeping Trestman around so Flacco and all those guys can be on the same page all the time. I'm not one who feels that Flacco needs to host passing camps it i do think it's a huge advantage to having great chemistry like Flacco and Pitta had. But it takes time.

Yeah I think Flacco and Pitta hit so quickly partly due to their off field friendship too.Though I could be wrong about that, it is just an assumption.

 

It does take time and sometimes it seems like a revolving door around here with all the pieces, for various reasons leaving.  I'd just like him to have that core talent, and I think we have some from our recent draft, consistently for at least more than one season and see if some of the things we all see from Flacco that we don't like get better.

[RavensFanMania]

Luck is stinking the joint up against the Jets tonight but I never hear anyone bash him like they bash Flacco ,including the media .

He's also got the most turnovers of anyone since 2014.  After tonights 4 interceptions he his turnover count since 2014 is 28.

[flynismo]

As a frequent flacco apologist, I find myself more critical of him early in this season and I think I know why:

Every preseason for the last five years we hear how there is something different about joe. His demeanor, his command of the huddle, his pre-snap intuition, his command of the offense,etc.

The thing is, he never changes much. I have to wrap my head around how it is he continues to be an inconsistent thrower of the deep ball, forces throws and turns the ball over, seems to wake up in certain games when it is nearly too late,etc.

But for all his maddening, inexplicable what is he doing moments, he plays great in crunch time, won one super bowl so far(I do think he'll get another) and is the best quarterback we have ever had. Just don't expect him to change.

Nobody in their right mind would want him to change. This team is nothing without him. I will gladly complain about an underthrown pass to a #4 receiver in September. Nobody will remember it, and everyone will be back to riding his jock in January

[redrum52]

Pees would have dropped him into coverage if he did play anyway

Lmao

[redrum52]

Nobody in their right mind would want him to change. This team is nothing without him. I will gladly complain about an underthrown pass to a #4 receiver in September. Nobody will remember it, and everyone will be back to riding his jock in January

This is what Giants fans were saying about Eli. You need to make it to January though.

[Militant X 1]

He would never say even if they did affect him. Truth is it is bound to have some affect.

 

I disagree!

 

Cause NONE of those things are even mentioned when the Ravens offense is playing well.  They are only mentioned when the offense stinks up the joint like in game 1 vs the Broncos.  I personally think that Joe played pretty well yesterday versus the Raiders however, I noticed that NONE of that stuff from there being a new O.C., QB's coach and personnel for Joe to work with was even mentioned as the Ravens offense was moving the chains and putting up 33 points.  BUT, the moment that they play like trash; now we hear those lame excuses about it being because of all of these changes Joe has had to deal with.  C'mon now!  Lol!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Militant X 1

[ravensdfan]

This is what Giants fans were saying about Eli. You need to make it to January though.

That is a fact so hopefully the defense gets its act together.

 

I disagree!

 

Cause NONE of those things are even mentioned when the Ravens offense is playing well.  They are only mentioned when the offense stinks up the joint like in game 1 vs the Broncos.  I personally think that Joe played pretty well yesterday versus the Raiders however, I noticed that NONE of that stuff from there being a new O.C., QB's coach and personnel for Joe to work with was even mentioned as the Ravens offense was moving the chains and putting up 33 points.  BUT, the moment that they play like trash; now we hear those lame excuses about it being because of all of these changes Joe has had to deal with.  C'mon now!  Lol!

Sorry but no. The OC change was mentioned and credited quite often last season when the offense was playing the best they had ever played. The offense DID play well. This is not something brought up about week 1, this is about this week.

Edited September 22, 2015 by ravensdfan

[PurpleCity5]

He can't get separation at all. The only reason he was open in the 2nd half is that they were double teaming Gilmore.That is what opened him up, not his play. I don't believe he is a #3 at all. Probably a #4.

He made big plays and stepped up when it mattered. Marlon Brown played the most snaps out of all WRs and yet he didn't produce much on the rec. end at all. I gatta say, Aiken turned it up later on with the Oak game serving as a confidence booster.

[ratedr]

Kubiak was praised quite a bit last year, definitely not on board with the idea that the OC is only mentioned when the offense plays badly. In fact, many here (including me) expressed a lot of concern about the future of the offense after Kubiak's departure.