Ravens Always over achieve

[CalvinSmoke]

Hey my fellow fans, I was just thinking about how our beloved Ravens have always been in the playoffs mix, and have carved out this great reputation for our preparation and work ethic and it made me think...

If we were ever able to get a truly stacked roster in this regime (Ala Broncos, Bengals, 2005 Chargers) there is no doubt in my mind we would have a dynasty, allow me to explain.

We are constantly picking at the end of the rounds because the Ravens are so darned successful, and thus our 1st round picks aren't always superstars, yet we keep becoming great. We find our best players in the 2nd+ rounds just for them to get a big contract elsewhere I'm 3 years. But what if... Maybe, just maybe Perriman becomes a beast in 2 years, and Campanaro can stay on the field. What if we can SOMEHOW keep Jernigan, Brandon Williams and Carl Davis. We sign cj mosley, this near future will be the best Ravens roster of all time...

We would be a dynasty, seriously guys. Am I just sipping purple kool-aid, should I shut up and get more sleep? Because the future looks as bright as the sun.

[CalvinSmoke]

We won a super bowl with an above average QB, an average reciever Corp, a solid offensive line, and a very slow defense... HOW FREAKIMG GOOOD IS OUR STAFF, it's ridiculous

[redlobster]

At some point they might need to consider trading up for that blue chip talent that they always miss out on.

[ravensdan]

At some point they might need to consider trading up for that blue chip talent that they always miss out on.

That's not really true at all. Look at the Ravens as well as the other SuperBowl winners and contenders and tell me what they have in common....

Seahawks / patriots

Seahawks / Broncos

49ers / Ravens

Packers/ steelers

Saints/ colts

I could go on but any of these teams consistently picking or trading to pick in the top 10?

Edited September 17, 2015 by ravensdan

[Willbacker]

That's not really true at all. Look at the Ravens as well as the other SuperBowl winners and contenders and tell me what they have in common....

Seahawks / patriots

Seahawks / Broncos

49ers / Ravens

Packers/ steelers

Saints/ colts

I could go on but any of these teams consistently picking or trading to pick in the top 10?

The one exception is the time the Pats traded up twice(in the same draft) to select Donta Hightower and Chandler Jones. That really put the bite back in their defense but we would need 10 or 11 picks(counting supplemental picks) to do it but I'd love to do it one time for a special talent.

[redrum52]

At some point they might need to consider trading up for that blue chip talent that they always miss out on.

I've said this as well.  We do so well with comp picks, why not make a jump one year for someone they think highly of.

[TDubbs]

At some point they might need to consider trading up for that blue chip talent that they always miss out on.

 

 

I agree, I'd love to see a bold move ... eventually you have to get those guys at the top end of the draft that are stars for a long time (like Suggs at 10th overall). Its a difficult call to make, and really depends how you grade the rest of the draft. 

 

The Julio Jones trade was great for the Falcons b/c they got a star player and the Browns got nothing out of all those picks. Conversely, there's always the Herschel Walker trade that set up a Cowboys dynasty. 

[salamander]

Babin made some very interesting comments today about being blown away by the Ravens way of doing things. Babin has been on many teams so it is good to hear that he is impressed with the preparation from the equipment, to the conveyance of plays and a lot of other things. If  "blown away" is the term Babin uses to describe the difference between the Ravens and other teams, then those many small things reinforce a championship mentality in every detail. Interesting and encouraging comments about how well this organization is run to facilitate success, top to bottom.

Edited September 17, 2015 by salamander

[Moderator 3]

I've said this as well.  We do so well with comp picks, why not make a jump one year for someone they think highly of.

You can't trade comp picks.

Also, keep in mind that not all big deals to move up in the draft pan out...RG3 anyone?

[redrum52]

You can't trade comp picks.

Also, keep in mind that not all big deals to move up in the draft pan out...RG3 anyone?

I know you can't trade comp picks, but with the extra comp picks, you can now trade your original picks from that round.  I also understand picks dont always work out, but it initially looked like a good move.... Until his leg met Ngata.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Then take Julio Jones into account. He's an elite WR but both franchises are rebuilding in a sense now. Unless there was a play with superstar level talent falling to 15 I wouldn't trade up that high. Too risky

[redrum52]

Then take Julio Jones into account. He's an elite WR but both franchises are rebuilding in a sense now. Unless there was a play with superstar level talent falling to 15 I wouldn't trade up that high. Too risky

Falcons had a LOT of holes to fill when they made the Julio trade.

[Purple_City39]

Ok, take the Patriots out of the draft talk.  Seriously, look at their last 10 drafts.  They are one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL but it's all masked because the horde picks, Brady/Belichiek keeps them good, and they do very well at finding free agents.

 

In terms of the Falcons and Julio, that's the perfect example on why you DON'T trade up like that for one player.  The Falcons had so many holes because of that trade and that star WR has one them 1 whole playoff game since they got him.  Meanwhile, the Ravens and their late round picks continue to avoid going one and done, and continue to actually be a threat in the post season.  I hope the Ravens never trade the farm for one player.

 

Late round picks matter in Baltimore.  Wagner (5th), McPhee (5th), Gilmore (4th), Williams (3rd), Davis (3rd), Juice (4rd), Taliaferro (4th), Tyrod (6th that likely nets us a 3rd round comp pick), Arthur Jones (5th), Tyson (7th), Urschel (5th).  These are or were all important players from just the last 5 drafts.  This doesn't even include the Boldins, Monroes, and Zuttah's acquired with those mid to late round draft picks.

[sflegend89]

You can't trade comp picks.

Also, keep in mind that not all big deals to move up in the draft pan out...RG3 anyone?

 

I think he was saying that because we make such good use of our comp picks we should be more aggressive trading up with our regular picks, but to Ozzie/Eric's credit we did just that to move up and get Maxx this year.

[ravensdan]

Ok, take the Patriots out of the draft talk. Seriously, look at their last 10 drafts. They are one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL but it's all masked because the horde picks, Brady/Belichiek keeps them good, and they do very well at finding free agents.

In terms of the Falcons and Julio, that's the perfect example on why you DON'T trade up like that for one player. The Falcons had so many holes because of that trade and that star WR has one them 1 whole playoff game since they got him. Meanwhile, the Ravens and their late round picks continue to avoid going one and done, and continue to actually be a threat in the post season. I hope the Ravens never trade the farm for one player.

Late round picks matter in Baltimore. Wagner (5th), McPhee (5th), Gilmore (4th), Williams (3rd), Davis (3rd), Juice (4rd), Taliaferro (4th), Tyrod (6th that likely nets us a 3rd round comp pick), Arthur Jones (5th), Tyson (7th), Urschel (5th). These are or were all important players from just the last 5 drafts. This doesn't even include the Boldins, Monroes, and Zuttah's acquired with those mid to late round draft picks.

good you went head and pointed out that the julio jones straight as 1 of the worst trades in the history of the draft

you also have to understand the economic system of the NFL to realize why the draft picks are more valuable than any free agents

[Maryland]

Very surprised anyone would look at the Julio pick as a success. Yes, they got a good player (albeit one who was injury-prone), but they ended up with a very bad team for a couple season afterwards because they had no talent on defense or O-line. Those extra picks could have addressed those holes on the roster. 

 

The best strategy is to throw as many darts on the draft board as possible by hoarding picks, using cheap talented rookies to fill your roster, developing your draft picks, paying your elite players, and letting the average-good ones go (earning you more comp. picks). It is really hard to get on top like this when you think about it: you have to have sustained success over several years when it comes to drafting/developing talent. Ozzie is in a good place right now having 10+ picks every year. 

 

There are only a few non-QB positions worth multiple picks in my eyes (LT, edge rusher, WR), and your scouts had better be damn sure he's a lock because you're out several picks instead of just one if you miss (Cordarrelle Patterson comes to mind).

Edited September 18, 2015 by Maryland

[usmccharles]

Julio trade is way too much, especially since our team is so good at drafting. Now moving up to the 15-20 range is a different story

[Tru11]

maybe its just me but i dont understand the suggestion to trade up and thus giving up picks and such while history proofs staying put or trading down worked well for us.

 

why would you want us to move away from what clearly has been working well?

[redrum52]

maybe its just me but i dont understand the suggestion to trade up and thus giving up picks and such while history proofs staying put or trading down worked well for us.

 

why would you want us to move away from what clearly has been working well?

Michael Oher and Sergio Kindle.  For the most part, they do get it right tho.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Michael Oher and Sergio Kindle. For the most part, they do get it right tho.

In their defense, there was no way to know that Sergio was going to crack his Mellon on the stairs. He was looking like a steal in the 2nd round. I'd say that Cody was a bigger bust than Sergio.

[Tru11]

Michael Oher and Sergio Kindle.  For the most part, they do get it right tho.

 

Oher was a key piece on the o-line when we won the SB lol.

He played the whole season @ LT and then moved to RT in the play offs and did not give up a single sack in the play offs.

So far he proved his pick more then guys like julio and RG3.

 

both of those been injured and have not really taken their teams anywhere considering what their team gave up to get them.

 

Heck we traded down for kindle so we actually gotten a pick orso while doing that.

 

You do know that trading up also comes with the same risk that the guy might get a freak injury and never play much at all right?

[redrum52]

Oher was a key piece on the o-line when we won the SB lol.

He played the whole season @ LT and then moved to RT in the play offs and did not give up a single sack in the play offs.

So far he proved his pick more then guys like julio and RG3.

 

both of those been injured and have not really taken their teams anywhere considering what their team gave up to get them.

 

Heck we traded down for kindle so we actually gotten a pick orso while doing that.

 

You do know that trading up also comes with the same risk that the guy might get a freak injury and never play much at all right?

I'll give you Oher, but my point was more about us not even re-signing either.  No one could have predicted the injury and to me, the 10 draft wasn't all that good anyway.

 

Julio might not have gotten them far, but it hasn't been his fault.  Bigger risk, but when you hit, the reward is usually worth it.  I'm not saying all the time, but when you have solid foundation, and a GM who hits more than misses, it wouldn't hurt to take a chance sometimes.

[Tru11]

I'll give you Oher, but my point was more about us not even re-signing either.  No one could have predicted the injury and to me, the 10 draft wasn't all that good anyway.

 

Julio might not have gotten them far, but it hasn't been his fault.  Bigger risk, but when you hit, the reward is usually worth it.  I'm not saying all the time, but when you have solid foundation, and a GM who hits more than misses, it wouldn't hurt to take a chance sometimes.

 

its actually pretty much his fault (well the team but you get my point)

 

all the picks they gave up stopped the team from adressing other needs.

so while they got a star WR they where left with a bad o-line , no rb and nothing they  could call a defense.

their top CB is the only guy who would be an improvement to our team and he would be the #2 CB lol

 

then there is also the issue that he never really is at full health and already missed some games and also almost a full season already.

so far in 4 seasons he only played 16 games 1 time.

 

also lets not forget he has a cap hit of 12 mil this season which only will go up.

its 16 mil next season !!!!

 

Also the only reward the team has gotten so far is 2 play off appearances and 1 play off victory.

 

you seriously want to trade all the play off appearances/victories/SB victory for a stud WR who puts up great numbers but only amounts to 1 play off victory in 4 years?

 

in a game of 11 vs 11 :  6 good players and 5 avg ones will help you more then having 1 superstar 5 avg ones and 5 bums lol

 

also its more of a 33 on 33 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Tru11

[usmccharles]

maybe its just me but i dont understand the suggestion to trade up and thus giving up picks and such while history proofs staying put or trading down worked well for us.

why would you want us to move away from what clearly has been working well?

I don't think anyone is saying to do it every year or anything, but once in awhile to go after someone that we really think could transform this team could be worth it. In no way would anyone here suggest giving up t picks for one player.

[Tru11]

I don't think anyone is saying to do it every year or anything, but once in awhile to go after someone that we really think could transform this team could be worth it. In no way would anyone here suggest giving up t picks for one player.

 

do you have any examples of where a team was better off doing such a thing?

 

both the skins and falcons are in a pretty bad shape after doing such a thing lol.

 

all it takes is trying something like this 1 time and have the franchise get set back for years.

 

i cant think of a team that got better after they traded alot f picks to move up in the draft for 1 guy.

 

if you go all in its SB or Bust.

[usmccharles]

do you have any examples of where a team was better off doing such a thing?

both the skins and falcons are in a pretty bad shape after doing such a thing lol.

all it takes is trying something like this 1 time and have the franchise get set back for years.

i cant think of a team that got better after they traded alot f picks to move up in the draft for 1 guy.

if you go all in its SB or Bust.

Skins and Falcons also traded up in the top 5 or so. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's actually happened. But for example, to move up to get obj would of been smart depending on what we give up. I'm agreeing with you in a sense, say we pick at 26 or something.... Move down to 18 ish I'm good with.... That's all I'm saying.

[Tru11]

Skins and Falcons also traded up in the top 5 or so. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's actually happened. But for example, to move up to get obj would of been smart depending on what we give up. I'm agreeing with you in a sense, say we pick at 26 or something.... Move down to 18 ish I'm good with.... That's all I'm saying.

 

thats not what they where talking about though.

 

moving up a few spots rarely cost to much and we have done that quite a few times in various rounds even the 1st.

 

its these blockbuster deals that some want us to do once in while lol.

[usmccharles]

thats not what they where talking about though.

moving up a few spots rarely cost to much and we have done that quite a few times in various rounds even the 1st.

its these blockbuster deals that some want us to do once in while lol.

well damn, I must of misread that, being on nights screws my thinking up. No Way should we do a trade like that. Talent across the board is better than one major talent. Carry on...

[redrum52]

Skins and Falcons also traded up in the top 5 or so. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's actually happened. But for example, to move up to get obj would of been smart depending on what we give up. I'm agreeing with you in a sense, say we pick at 26 or something.... Move down to 18 ish I'm good with.... That's all I'm saying.

This is what I meant. 10-12 spots. Not a jump from 25 to 3. The Elam draft, I hoped we'd move up for Reid.

[Purple_City39]

This is what I meant. 10-12 spots. Not a jump from 25 to 3. The Elam draft, I hoped we'd move up for Reid.

Reid went one spot early didn't he?  That's not too big of a deal.  Even 10-12 spots in the first round is a costly gamble.  I wouldn't expect Ozzie to go more than 5 in round one.