Trestman's Offense: Good, Bad, or Otherwise?

[CorvusCorax]

I actually like what's he's doing. 

 

The main issue here is:

 

1. Lack of Run Game

2. Lack of a good WR corps. - consistently a problem for Ravens - I'm honestly sick of this. 

[The Raven]

If you actually PAY ATTENTION to the plays Trestman calls and actually pay  attention to the route concepts and even the blocking schemes, it's quite obvious that he's scheming his butt off. He's doing what he can to get guys open but we have nothing. We have Steve and Crockett.

Edited September 28, 2015 by The Raven

[AsianRice]

The biggest thing holding back the offense is the poor running game. We're near the bottom of the league in yards/attempt.

 

Flacco talked about it at his press conference, the Bengals were playing a conservative 2-deep coverage all game. The way to get a defense out of that look is to be effective running the ball - a safety will come down and it will open up play-action and/or some long passes.

 

We couldn't do that. The running game was basically '3 yards and a pile of dust' and got stuffed on a couple third down tries. That's why we saw the spread formations with Forsett and Juice, simple short passes in lieu of a running game.

 

I don't particuarly care for those plays but it's necessary with an ineffective ground game.

It sums up the whole thing on how our offense failed to eat up the clock and keep their defense off balance.  We need to run the ball well when 2 safeties are far deep.  Seem like Trestman's running game need a big tall RB like Matt Forte did for him. His offense are the other way around of Kubiak like he needs passing game to opening up the running game and whereas Kubiak offense use running game to open up passing game and play action. 

 

Right now, Talifero will excel in Trestman's running game cuz his style is similar to Forte....

[GrimCoconut]

I can't remember. Has Trestman ever had a first quarter lead to play with this season? I think we've been playing from behind for each of our games so far. Our defense isn't doing our offense any favors.

Our offense certainly isn't doing itself any favors with all the dropped passes and bad routes. The left side of the offensive line is abysmal. Hopefully Monroe can stabilize that, but who knows? My biggest concern is receiver. Has Kamar done anything? Has Marlon done anything? If you ask me it's time to shake things up. Time to move Kamar down the depth chart to start Marlon and move Campanero to number 3. Kamar is holding us back.

I think it's time to bench KO. He's hurting the team. I would rather put Urschel out there atm because KO is showing me nothing. He either gets beat or makes a stupid penalty. I'm obviously exaggerating but you know my point. I would even be willing to move Urschel to center and try Zuttah at LG since he played there before.

I agree on WR. Aiken has shown me nothing more than JAG. Brown may also be the same breed but I say give him a shot. If they both struggle then try Waller. I think he needs work but maybe he can be better. Aiken is clearly NOT a deep threat.

[Ravensfan23]

While i agree with mostly what you said: If this is mainly Trestman scheming for SSS, does Trestman just decide not to schem for the other WRs.  Or do they lack the skills to run a designed route?  If its the ladder, then we really need to question (most have) the abiltity to judge WRs considering these guys arent rookies.

First let me say that none of these guys are Smitty. While Trestman did a great job getting him a favorable match up on the 4th down play, that was all Sr. I don't expect any of these guys to have 10+ catches in back to back games like he did, but i do expect targets to get spread around more.

So with that said, it's not a skill issue imo. I think it's Flacco and his comfort level. Also when you're scheming guys open with combo routes it's the defense that dictates where the ball goes. If and when teams look to take Sr away at all cost that's when those same routes will be open for other players. Flacco just doesn't have the chemistry and trust with other guys as he has with Sr right now. On his lone int, he had Brown running a corner route. The read was clearly zone and after the jam by Jones, Brown comes open. If Joe anticipates the throw leading Brown to the sideline it would have been a possible 20yds completion and ball out to the 50 with the offense moving to tie the game. But instead Joe either didn't trust the throw or didn't read the cover because he came off Brown too quick, then threw thw pick that led to a 14 point hole. Also if Flacco gets the ball out on time the holding call never happens.

Obviously that's just one play but it turned out to be a big play and they have shown up in all 3 games. It's not the WRs not being talented enough, it's Joe not having complete trust in these guys right now. Those guys are getting open through the scheme but none of them are getting forced the ball like Smith is. 7 of his targets came within 3 yards of the LOS. Another 4 targets came vs a LB or Safety. That's Trestman finding ways to get him the ball. There's really no need to target guys like Brown, Camp and Aiken like that right now. But when the time comes i think they'll make some plays, especially once Perriman is able to stretch the field more.

[ratedr]

I agree that Joe doesn't trust guys outside of SSS and is reluctant to give them chances. Joe basically said the same. That said Aiken and Brown aren't very good so I don't necessarily blame him for that.

[CorvusCorax]

I agree that Joe doesn't trust guys outside of SSS and is reluctant to give them chances. Joe basically said the same. That said Aiken and Brown aren't very good so I don't necessarily blame him for that.

 

One can say that Aiken and Brown are not in the Circle of Trust.. lol

[berad]

I agree that Joe doesn't trust guys outside of SSS and is reluctant to give them chances. Joe basically said the same. That said Aiken and Brown aren't very good so I don't necessarily blame him for that.

 

He said he needs to work them in the game more. But, when the game's on the line and you need a play, would you rather look for #11 or #89? All of our games, needed to make clutch plays to stay in them.

 

We really need a blow-out game, where we can chuck balls to Aiken and Brown at heart's desire. I'd settle for even a 'comfortable' game. Wouldn't that be nice LOL

[RaineV1]

When it comes to the o-line, keep in mind that they were also doing badly before Kubiak came to town. Maybe out o-line coach can only work well when he has someone like Kubiak to work with. Since he apparently just didn't gel with Caldwell, and he isn't working well with Trestman's style.

[rmcjacket23]

When it comes to the o-line, keep in mind that they were also doing badly before Kubiak came to town. Maybe out o-line coach can only work well when he has someone like Kubiak to work with. Since he apparently just didn't gel with Caldwell, and he isn't working well with Trestman's style.

Not like Kubiak's running game style is working well in Denver right now either...

[ratedr]

Not like Kubiak's running game style is working well in Denver right now either...

They're running Manning's offense at this point, not Kubiak's. The evidence is in the percentage of shotgun snaps.

[Ravensfan23]

I agree that Joe doesn't trust guys outside of SSS and is reluctant to give them chances. Joe basically said the same. That said Aiken and Brown aren't very good so I don't necessarily blame him for that.

How do you know if they aren't being given opportunities to show how good they are. One of the biggest reasons both Torrey and Marlon had such solid rookie seasons is because they were targeted by force in most cases. Neither of those guys appeared ready to make an impact in games but because the Ravens needed them and lacked creativity from the OC they were forced the ball. No need to force the ball to Aiken, Brown amd Camp right now.

He said he needs to work them in the game more. But, when the game's on the line and you need a play, would you rather look for #11 or #89? All of our games, needed to make clutch plays to stay in them.

 

We really need a blow-out game, where we can chuck balls to Aiken and Brown at heart's desire. I'd settle for even a 'comfortable' game. Wouldn't that be nice LOL

That's the whole point. When you put yourself in basically must win games like the Ravens have, you're gonna go to the guy that you trust the most. These guys are getting open on some of the same plays Smitty is getting the ball but why would you target them when you have SSS open, especially on 3rd downs? For example, on SSS back should TD, Marlon Brown actually won his matchup in the slot by getting inside position on Hall. It would have been a tight throw, but he had what he wanted with Smitty so there was no need to even look that way.

They definitely need a homecoming type game to build that chemistry with each other in this offense. But I'm not sure that'll happen with this defense.

[Sir Spooky]

The running game is hurting right now but that starts with o-line. Can't blame him for that. Passing game is actually good even with the deficiencies and a lot of success is because he's scheming for SSS and SSS is making plays. Saw it in Denver, Oakland, and against Cinci. Wish he would use multiple TE sets because our TEs are our best weapons outside of SSS. He uses Juice who's sorta like a TE but doesn't really create the same favorable match-ups  because he's smaller. I should cut Trestman some slack because he lost Gillmore for the 2nd half and it's not like we knew our TEs minus Pitta would be so viable. Also I think he should use Camp more in the slot; could create some good match-ups in space. 

[ravensfan520]

I think the offense is fine... play calling wise. I think it's execution where we are lacking. With only one play making wr and young te's we are struggling to stay consistent. Joe has been off the line is not run blocking well and nobody but smith and the te's are catching the ball.

[The Raven]

When it comes to the o-line, keep in mind that they were also doing badly before Kubiak came to town. Maybe out o-line coach can only work well when he has someone like Kubiak to work with. Since he apparently just didn't gel with Caldwell, and he isn't working well with Trestman's style.

 

I don't think it's that. I think that our one dimensional play calling - made worse by playing from behind - has put the offensive line at a serious disadvantage. 

[DenverRaven]

I think the offense is fine... play calling wise. I think it's execution where we are lacking. With only one play making wr and young te's we are struggling to stay consistent. Joe has been off the line is not run blocking well and nobody but smith and the te's are catching the ball.

 

I think it's a little bit of both. The playcalling is designed alright, but we seem pretty quick to abandon the run. We're also playing from behind constantly, so I can understand why Trestman gets trigger happy. This, however, is exactly what Bears fans were warning us of.

[Ravensfan23]

I think it's a little bit of both. The playcalling is designed alright, but we seem pretty quick to abandon the run. We're also playing from behind constantly, so I can understand why Trestman gets trigger happy. This, however, is exactly what Bears fans were warning us of.

This is what bugs me. Whenever an offense goes away from the run doesn't mean they abandoned it and you don't need to run the ball 30+ times to have an effective run game. The oline forced Trestman's hand in the run game with all the foolish penalties. The fact that Trestman didn't stubbornly stick to the run is what got the Bengals defense off balance. The Ravens had to convert so many 3rd and longs, not because they lacked success on early but because of the dumb penalties.

Trestman has run the ball 25 times over the first 2 games and the only reason it was only 18 in this game was because of the oline forcing long yardage situations. Also the screens and flares were used as extensions for the run game. The oline just has to be better and get comfortable with the rushing attack under Trestman opposed to Kubiak's style.

[GrimCoconut]

This is what bugs me. Whenever an offense goes away from the run doesn't mean they abandoned it and you don't need to run the ball 30+ times to have an effective run game. The oline forced Trestman's hand in the run game with all the foolish penalties. The fact that Trestman didn't stubbornly stick to the run is what got the Bengals defense off balance. The Ravens had to convert so many 3rd and longs, not because they lacked success on early but because of the dumb penalties.

Trestman has run the ball 25 times over the first 2 games and the only reason it was only 18 in this game was because of the oline forcing long yardage situations. Also the screens and flares were used as extensions for the run game. The oline just has to be better and get comfortable with the rushing attack under Trestman opposed to Kubiak's style.

Yeah. It's not like KO didn't commit a holding penalty or a crazy penalty I can't even recall it's so rare. People don't take into account the complete lack of discipline the team and especially OL and secondary show.

[Alexir]

I just don't understand all the routes and passes that aren't even getting to the first down marker in critical situations. How many times on 3rd or even 4th down did Joe throw it to a guy 2 or 3 yards shy of the first down? Thankfully, Steve Smith put the team on his back again and fought for that 1st down even though he was short at first and ended up getting a touchdown for it.

[rmcjacket23]

They're running Manning's offense at this point, not Kubiak's. The evidence is in the percentage of shotgun snaps.

In week 3... yes. They struggled to run the ball against Baltimore and KC as well, and that was largely Kubiak's offense.

 

Besides, you can still do a Kubiak running based offense out of the shotgun. What we are seeing is a lack of quality personnel on their Oline, which at the end of the day, circles us all the way back to entire premise. Can't scheme your way out of poor personnel...

[RavensFanMania]

In week 3... yes. They struggled to run the ball against Baltimore and KC as well, and that was largely Kubiak's offense.

 

Besides, you can still do a Kubiak running based offense out of the shotgun. What we are seeing is a lack of quality personnel on their Oline, which at the end of the day, circles us all the way back to entire premise. Can't scheme your way out of poor personnel...

Yes you can.  They are a better fit in a lateral zbs scheme like last year than the man scheme they have been in this year.

[Ravensfan23]

I just don't understand all the routes and passes that aren't even getting to the first down marker in critical situations. How many times on 3rd or even 4th down did Joe throw it to a guy 2 or 3 yards shy of the first down? Thankfully, Steve Smith put the team on his back again and fought for that 1st down even though he was short at first and ended up getting a touchdown for it.

The Bengals did a great job of taking away deep throws and the oline put the offense into too many long yardage situations. Trestman did a great job of creating space and getting favorable matchups underneath. Honestly not much different then you see from teams like the Pats. Throw it short and force the defense to make open field tackles.

The 4th down TD was Smith's fault. It wasn't designed to be short of the marker, he just didn't get good depth on his route. Brown ran the corner off and Smith was man up with the safety. He's just gotta get deeper.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Flacco is super bowl mvp but  i don't think he's a guy that should be throwing the ball a whole lot. He needs a good running game to get started and it was highly needed on sunday because a good running game keeps the clock moving.

 

You're right on that. I just hate when they keep trying to force the run when it's clearly not going to happen. Those are valuable downs.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Dfence4champs2052

[Dfence4champs2052]

We really should've cleared some cap and made the trade for Brandon Marshall. Hell I was advocating we moved ngata for him. That would've helped us out tremendously. Smith and Marshall we wouldn't have lost Any of these three games IMO.

 

I have to agree on all points.

[ravensdan]

Well, is his offense really bad? I don't think he's the problem. Did I see bad calls? Oh yeah. Kubiak made some bad calls, too. Trestman has a WR corps that was overrated combined with an OL that forgot how to play and a complete abandon of discipline.

He's used Juszczyk more than Kubiak ever did.

Someone finally brings up the point. Wth happened to the dominant Oline. If those guys play as well as last year the lack of wr is irrelevant. Not sure why anyone thought that would be a strength this year. And it's not just LT. The other 4/5 of the line need to step up their game.

[Dr. Kelley]

Someone finally brings up the point. Wth happened to the dominant Oline. If those guys play as well as last year the lack of wr is irrelevant. Not sure why anyone thought that would be a strength this year. And it's not just LT. The other 4/5 of the line need to step up their game.

Injuries + juan Castillo back in charge = welcome back to 2013

[GrimCoconut]

Someone finally brings up the point. Wth happened to the dominant Oline. If those guys play as well as last year the lack of wr is irrelevant. Not sure why anyone thought that would be a strength this year. And it's not just LT. The other 4/5 of the line need to step up their game.

Yeah. Hurst is clearly outclassed but I have to give it to him for trying. KO is just playing sloppy, sloppy football like he doesn't want to get paid. Maybe this is some clever plan to return to the Ravens on some cheap deal, because he looks like Michael Oher playing LG. In fact, I'd even call his performance reminiscent of Michael Oher where he had a good year and then a Jekyll & Hyde performance after. IMO his best year was his rookie year. He was good last year. I don't want to discredit him, but he had bad years in 2013 & it's looking like another one this year.

 

Then on top of it, clearly Zuttah just doesn't know how to play football anymore, either. Yanda is just carrying the OL & Wagner looks bad, too. I'll give Wagner a chance since he's still coming back from a late Lisfranc injury. I don't condemn him much, because his injury did happen late in the season & I bet most people forget that. We also have Eugene Monroe, whose new best friend is Breshad Perriman. 

[Ravensfan23]

Someone finally brings up the point. Wth happened to the dominant Oline. If those guys play as well as last year the lack of wr is irrelevant. Not sure why anyone thought that would be a strength this year. And it's not just LT. The other 4/5 of the line need to step up their game.

The oline hasn't been as bad as it appears. The pass pro has been solid and there is just an comfortability issue in the run game. The Ravens can say it's the same offense all they want but it's not. It may be the same playbook(and i question that) but it's definitely not the same offense. Also before i continue lets be honest and clear the oline wasn't dominant last year, the system was. That Kubiak/Shanahan ZBS is very oline friendly because even the major of passes ask the oline to zone block so it keeps defenders on their heels a bit. The easy thing to do and what the Ravens thought they could do was, say just keep things the same as when Kubiak was here, but it's a reason he makes sure his Oline and TE coach sticks with him from team to team. This is an unique system and not just anyone can teach/run it. So in walks Trestman and while the ZBS has stayed it's not run the same way Kubes did.

So much like anything else that's new, there will be a period where things don't gel as well. If you think about last year, Kubiak specializes in establishing the run and the Ravens were able to get that part of the offense working early. Trestman is more of a master of the passing game and creating matchups, so there should be no surprise that he's gotten the pass game going quickly. The oline is getting used to the changes and Forsett has to get used to how they're blocking on certain runs. Forsett hasn't been very decisive the first 3 games imo. He doesn't appear to be reading well.

For the most part the oline is blocking well enough to get the run game going where Trestman wants it. The issue is that too often one guy blows an assignment and it messes up the play. Whether its a OT not getting a good chop block to seal off the backside or the G or C not holding a double team long enough because both are trying to get to the 2nd level, or the RB not trusting the hole to develop or a TE/WR missing a seal. All those things come from new and moving parts. I honestly expect the running game to get fixed quickly. However i don't expect the running game to be as good as last season.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

So... Some things I want Trestman to address: on 3rd and 8, DONT send everybody deep....instant sack or pick..

When you run a ton, Please mix in some Play Action

Please have some Curls and Crosses....somebody needs to go 10 yards for the first down...change the snap count, add some Hard Counts...

[RaineV1]

So... Some things I want Trestman to address: on 3rd and 8, DONT send everybody deep....instant sack or pick..

When you run a ton, Please mix in some Play Action

Please have some Curls and Crosses....somebody needs to go 10 yards for the first down...change the snap count, add some Hard Counts...

Gotta agree. That was Cam style play calling.