Switch to a 4-3 to replace Suggs?

[GrimCoconut]

I expect Brent Urban to replace Suggs as crazy as I am sure that sounds. A lot of comparisons had him as another JJ Watt, who is a player who can sorta play anywhere. He's the exception and BY FAR not the rule, but we did use him as an OLB in training camp last year. I'm not sure if we used him there this year or in OTAs. Since we used our IRDR on him, he absolutely must step up and play a major role in our pass rush even coming off the injury.

 

Don't forget that we still have Elvis Dumervil as well. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[rmw10]

I expect Brent Urban to replace Suggs as crazy as I am sure that sounds. A lot of comparisons had him as another JJ Watt, who is a player who can sorta play anywhere. He's the exception and BY FAR not the rule, but we did use him as an OLB in training camp last year. I'm not sure if we used him there this year or in OTAs. Since we used our IRDR on him, he absolutely must step up and play a major role in our pass rush even coming off the injury.

 

Don't forget that we still have Elvis Dumervil as well. 

 

I also think Urban will help with some of the blow here, but he's still at least 7 weeks away from contributing.  Doesn't help too much now which is when we'll really need it.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Chances are we'll be fine. Rather than being an elite defense we'll just be very good. We did field great defenses when we just had Suggs and Ngata as our two best players. We have more guys now/

[jazz1988]

Oh, I know man, I know. Thinking more about it, we used to use Upshaw inside in sub packages too. He might not even be long or explosive enough.

What about Dion Jordon from Miami. He seems to have fallen down the depth chart in Miami. He could be versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in the 3-4. Wonder if the fish would be willing to shop him...

 

I think Jordan is suspended for a year because of substance abuse. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by jazz1988

[Ravens4Real]

If Doom is forced into a full time role, teams would just run right at him. If Doom is not full time and Smith and Upshaw were the ends, teams would call pass plays because while those two can effectively stop the run, our pass rush would greatly suffer. Although our linebackers would be able to cover a lot of ground, I still think it would be a lose lose on the line.

[JoeyFlex5]

i dont know if i would call jernigan a 4-3DE. now jernigan at 4-3DT, he would wreck, it is his more natural position anyway.  

 

and upshaw would be better off than brown, i like upshaw as a 4-3OLB and i feel like brown just cant handle a full time role.

[Purple Punishment]

I don't like Doom as a 4-3 DE

[FlackAttack]

i know it sucks and all but man some of you are just overreacting

[FlackAttack]

yeah, lets just draft and sign players geared towards a 3-4 defense like we've been doing for centuries but switch our entire defense philosophy week 2 into the regular season. that'll do it.

[Maryland]

I think we may see more 4-3 looks, especially once Urban returns, but for all of the reasons already mentioned, a permanent 4-3 defense isn't the best solution. 

 

Personally I think the best idea will be to just get creative with our blitzes, sending more pressure up the middle, maybe do more ILB blitzes (since our ILBs are surprisingly all good at that). 

[balfan23]

I think we may see more 4-3 looks, especially once Urban returns, but for all of the reasons already mentioned, a permanent 4-3 defense isn't the best solution. 

 

Personally I think the best idea will be to just get creative with our blitzes, sending more pressure up the middle, maybe do more ILB blitzes (since our ILBs are surprisingly all good at that). 

They did a good job with that today. I love the delay blitz that Mosely pulled on Manning. As good as Manning is at drawing out where the blitz is coming from, we still managed to harass him virtually the whole game while we got precious little pressure without the blitz.

 

The only one I can think of was when KLM pushed his guy back and Canty got in up the middle. Other than that it was all about how we disguised and came with blitz packages. 

[Maryland]

They did a good job with that today. I love the delay blitz that Mosely pulled on Manning. As good as Manning is at drawing out where the blitz is coming from, we still managed to harass him virtually the whole game while we got precious little pressure without the blitz.

 

The only one I can think of was when KLM pushed his guy back and Canty got in up the middle. Other than that it was all about how we disguised and came with blitz packages. 

I was astounded at how well Pees was disguising his blitzes. Looked like Cover 1 on a number of plays before Hill dropped back, never quite knew who was going to blitz (although Upshaw and a few others would tip their hands on a few hard counts). 

 

And since you brought it up, I liked what I saw out of KLM on that one sack. Announcers praised Canty, but KLM caused the most disruption by pushing the pocket in. Hopefully a sign of more to come.

 

Losing Suggs hurts bad, but I still think we'll be average, possibly above average at generating pressure (especially interior pressure) and still good at stopping the run. 

[KBoum]

Jernigan would be a beast 3 technique imo

Edited September 14, 2015 by KBoum

[jazz1988]

The Ravens didn't run a 4-3 defense in 2012 when Suggs was out for injury so why would they do it now? They didn't even have another solid pass rusher such as Doom on the team at the time either.

[CalvinSmoke]

              CJ Mosley - Daryl Smith - Arthur Brown

Doom - Timmy Jernigan - Brandon Williams - Courtney Upshaw

 

This defense would be fine but the issue would be Art Brown, idk if he's ready. But there is going to be a question mark regardless, it's still a good front 7 no matter the formation. 

[Tru11]

we dont have the LBers to run a 4-3.

 

brown , smith and mosley would be the only 3 guys for those 3 spots which is pretty bad.

[Ravens2343]

we dont have the LBers to run a 4-3.

 

brown , smith and mosley would be the only 3 guys for those 3 spots which is pretty bad.

 

I agree that we do not have the linebackers for that.  There is no reason to panic right now and switch our defensive philosophy around.  Losing Suggs is obviously a huge blow, especially from a leadership standpoint.  But there are guys on this team who can step up and the defense as a whole should still be top 10.  Upshaw will slide into Sugg's spot and Doom/Smith will split some snaps on the other side.  I think the most important thing is we need to be able to keep Doom fresh, so Smith or if they bring in someone else will have to be able to handle early down work. McClellan could be a guy that could rotate in as well, he played well yesterday in limited snaps.  I think overall our defense will be fine, our secondary looked vastly improved and our defensive line looked great and that was without Jernigan.  We will be fine

Edited September 14, 2015 by Ravens2343

[Tru11]

I agree that we do not have the linebackers for that.  There is no reason to panic right now and switch our defensive philosophy around.  Losing Suggs is obviously a huge blow, especially from a leadership standpoint.  But there are guys on this team who can step up and the defense as a whole should still be top 10.  Upshaw will slide into Sugg's spot and Doom/Smith will split some snaps on the other side.  I think the most important thing is we need to be able to keep Doom fresh, so Smith or if they bring in someone else will have to be able to handle early down work.  I think overall our defense will be fine, our secondary looked vastly improved and our defensive line looked great and that was without Jernigan.  We will be fine

 

i expect suggs to go on IR which opens up a spot to promote someone from PS or sign an FA.

 

there are some veteran guys out there but none of them are really all round though.

 

IMO mcllelan will probaly take over the edge setting duties while smith/FA handles the pass rush or gets switched out for doom which opens the door for upshaw to show he can be a 3 down LBer.

 

i expect us to blitz some more to create pressure instead of the 4 man rushes.

[Ravens2343]

i expect suggs to go on IR which opens up a spot to promote someone from PS or sign an FA.

 

there are some veteran guys out there but none of them are really all round though.

 

IMO mcllelan will probaly take over the edge setting duties while smith/FA handles the pass rush or gets switched out for doom which opens the door for upshaw to show he can be a 3 down LBer.

 

i expect us to blitz some more to create pressure instead of the 4 man rushes.

 

I wouldn't rule us out signing a free agent or looking to a trade, but it is not necessary at this point IMO.  Upshaw will be a 3 down guy now, which he is great at setting the edge so I am not worried about that part.  Smith can rotate with Upshaw to help provide a pass rush and McClellan can be the edge setter for Dumervil to keep him fresh.  It is not ideal to have to blitz more, but with the way our secondary played yesterday I will feel more comfortable if we do blitz more.  Jernigan returning will also help the interior pass rush.

[JEEPercreepermd]

We play 4-3 , 3-4, 5-2, 46...why limit yourself?

[PurpleCity5]

We play 4-3 , 3-4, 5-2, 46...why limit yourself?

We're actually a hybride, we really don't play straight 3-4, with that said, Idk if you make the switch from what you have now.

[Baltimore RAYvens]

I think with some of our pieces aging, the switch to a 4-3 is a good idea for next season once Pees leaves. Granted our LB depth will be thin, but isn't quality depth an issue with us as is? Move back in the first and grab Jack and poof

 

                        Mosely

   Brown                                            Jack

Suggs-Jerningan/Davis Williams-Dumerville

 

Also puts Brown back in the 43 where he looked pretty darn good in college. 

[52liveforever]

I have usually been against it b.c of personnel, but I think with who we have we actually would be better off in a 4-3. Here is why.

Dumervil is not an every down OLB, but I think he probably is an every down DE. Babin looked his best when his hand was in the dirt. Upshaw and ZS probably would be pretty well suited at DE. Having a rotation between Jernigan, Williams, and Davis would be pretty sick. Brown would finally be able to earn his keep as a second rounder as a 4-3 OLB. The only issue would be depth at linebacker. You would have to cut some DT's and find some good depth for the linebackers.

Not saying we should shift right now in the middle of a season, but I think now more than ever before it's something to entertain.

[GrimCoconut]

I have usually been against it b.c of personnel, but I think with who we have we actually would be better off in a 4-3. Here is why.

Dumervil is not an every down OLB, but I think he probably is an every down DE. Babin looked his best when his hand was in the dirt. Upshaw and ZS probably would be pretty well suited at DE. Having a rotation between Jernigan, Williams, and Davis would be pretty sick. Brown would finally be able to earn his keep as a second rounder as a 4-3 OLB. The only issue would be depth at linebacker. You would have to cut some DT's and find some good depth for the linebackers.

Not saying we should shift right now in the middle of a season, but I think now more than ever before it's something to entertain.

After a lot of thought, I disagree. I think our defense is better as a 3-4 due to the defensive tackles we have. That's the strength of the defense, so a 4-3 would mean only two of our defensive tackles would be on the field rather than 3. I suppose we could do something strange and use a DT at end, but I'm not sure how well that'll fly.

[CalvinSmoke]

After a lot of thought, I disagree. I think our defense is better as a 3-4 due to the defensive tackles we have. That's the strength of the defense, so a 4-3 would mean only two of our defensive tackles would be on the field rather than 3. I suppose we could do something strange and use a DT at end, but I'm not sure how well that'll fly.

the rotation would be solid because Brandon Williams comes off the field on passing downs anyway. Carl Davis and Jernigan will be fresh. Canty too.

[rmw10]

I've always been a fan of the 4-3 in general, but I'm no longer of the opinion that it's the right fit for this team.  I like Dumervil standing up much more than I like him with his hand in the dirt.  The LBs are the biggest issue, though.  Mosley and Smith are obviously big fits, but it remains to be seen how much longer Smith is going to play.  I always thought Arthur Brown was a perfect fit and that's a big reason why I liked the switch at one point, but his inconsistency has me thinking otherwise.  I think it'd be easier to free him up, but he looks incredibly suspect in coverage, and as the likely WLB in the 4-3, that's a dangerous proposition.  After that, there's no depth.  Orr and McClellan are it.  We'd have to revamp the LB group if we wanted to do it, which I highly doubt will be the case.

[52liveforever]

the rotation would be solid because Brandon Williams comes off the field on passing downs anyway. Carl Davis and Jernigan will be fresh. Canty too.

Exactly. I think our DT rotation could be like the rotation we had at OLB last year. That inside rotation would be disgusting!

[52liveforever]

After a lot of thought, I disagree. I think our defense is better as a 3-4 due to the defensive tackles we have. That's the strength of the defense, so a 4-3 would mean only two of our defensive tackles would be on the field rather than 3. I suppose we could do something strange and use a DT at end, but I'm not sure how well that'll fly.

I really don't disagree with you. I am a big 3-4 guy and really not a big 4-3 guy. I just think right now we don't have a real great 3-4 end and we are hurting with 3-4 OLB depth. However now that I think long term I think a switch to a 4-3 would be a quick fix and if we stick to a 3-4 we have a good foundation to build something great.

[OldToby]

You can create a lot of exotic plays with a 3-4 defense. Pees is pretty conservative for the most part. I can say for myself, I prefer a more aggressive style of play calling in a 3-4, not just rushing 3 or 4 . Safety blitzes with kendrick lewis would be nice, how about more Middle LB blitz packages, showing blitz on conservative plays also helps. In the bengals game i saw Andy Dalton audible to a different play, after clearly reading the blitz and coverage, which i believe resulted in a TD or big gain. Why is there no deception? I honestly believe our 3-4 defensive in our hybrid scheme works well with the right play calling. I personally saw a lot of good calls in the second half of the steelers game.

[redrum52]

You can create a lot of exotic plays with a 3-4 defense. Pees is pretty conservative for the most part. I can say for myself, I prefer a more aggressive style of play calling in a 3-4, not just rushing 3 or 4 . Safety blitzes with kendrick lewis would be nice, how about more Middle LB blitz packages, showing blitz on conservative plays also helps. In the bengals game i saw Andy Dalton audible to a different play, after clearly reading the blitz and coverage, which i believe resulted in a TD or big gain. Why is there no deception? I honestly believe our 3-4 defensive in our hybrid scheme works well with the right play calling. I personally saw a lot of good calls in the second half of the steelers game.

Ravens were the 1st team to not only get a sack on Dalton, but get a turnover, as well. Some of it is showing the blitz too early and some of it is guys just not doing their job.