Switch to a 4-3 to replace Suggs?

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Well. Not replace. But there are other ways of being a good defense. Watch

 

Jernigan

Davis/Guy

Williams/

Canty/Dumveril(rotations in and out)

 

That's a front four that can get pressure right?

 

Brown

Mosley

Smith

 

There... We get better in coverage, can still effectively blitz, and can still effectively stop the run with that right? Not so bad. 

[Static]

Maybe if our defense has a few bad outing but changing things after a good showing is dumb.

 

 

But I do like having the 3lbs covering the middle of the field and short routes. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Maybe if our defense has a few bad outing but changing things after a good showing is dumb.

 

 

But I do like having the 3lbs covering the middle of the field and short routes. 

Well. I forgot to specify. We use a base 4-3. But still have a hybrid defense. You could ideally make upshaw start at one of the LB spots to make it work(Pees seems to like him in coverage anyway). Primarily that's a front 7 built to stop the run. Which is what you have to do in order to have a good defense.

 

Primarily using a 4-3 would not be a  bad idea. 

[Kid87]

Is Upshaw an OLB or DE lol he is so freakin huge..idk man..ugh

[SorryNotSorry]

It's actually smart... except we have another pretty good 3-4 olb in Upshaw. God forbid we lose another OLB and we may have no choice. Also Dean Pees likes rushing only 3 all too much to call an effective 4-3 defense.  

[bMore Heathen]

Well. Not replace. But there are other ways of being a good defense. Watch

Jernigan

Davis/Guy

Williams/

Canty/Dumveril(rotations in and out)

That's a front four that can get pressure right?

Brown

Mosley

Smith

There... We get better in coverage, can still effectively blitz, and can still effectively stop the run with that right? Not so bad.

I doubt it. Canty and Jernagan would play inside in the 4-3. Neither would be able to generate a pass rush outside. It would be Upshaw and Doom at end. With ZS as really the only back up. Honestly the 4-3 wouldn't mask the loss of Suggs. We don't really have the personel to be deep enough to run it effectively.

Moving McClelen outside and having Orr and Brown as the back ups inside is the only option with the players we have imo. If we were to get a guy like Freeney to generate a rush on passing downs would probably be our best bet. Upshaw and Doom just have to have career years.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

It's actually smart... except we have another pretty good 3-4 olb in Upshaw. God forbid we lose another OLB and we may have no choice. Also Dean Pees likes rushing only 3 all too much to call an effective 4-3 defense.  

Upshaw is good at one thing and one thing only.. Stopping the run. He's damn good at it but it's all he's good for. 

[balfan23]

I certainly wouldn't rule out making that change, but changing defensive set on a dime seems tricky. I just don't know if it would be as easy as it sounds. 

 

We're going to have to make adjustments, though, no matter what. 

[Clmraven]

Well. I forgot to specify. We use a base 4-3. But still have a hybrid defense. You could ideally make upshaw start at one of the LB spots to make it work(Pees seems to like him in coverage anyway). Primarily that's a front 7 built to stop the run. Which is what you have to do in order to have a good defense.

 

Primarily using a 4-3 would not be a  bad idea.

It would be a force to run against but teams would catch on and start throwing against our base defense and I'm not sure they could generate much pressure with Jernigan and canty playing the edge.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I doubt it. Canty and Jernagan would play inside in the 4-3. Neither would be able to generate a pass rush outside. It would be Upshaw and Doom at end. With ZS as really the only back up. Honestly the 4-3 wouldn't mask the loss of Suggs. We don't really have the personel to be deep enough to run it effectively.

Moving McClelen outside and having Orr and Brown as the back ups inside is the only option with the players we have imo. If we were to get a guy like Freeney to generate a rush on passing downs would probably be our best bet. Upshaw and Doom just have to have career years.

Desperate times my friend. Desperate times. 

Otherwise I don't think we're screwed I suppose in the 3-4 we still have the personnel to stop the run. We'll just need a situational pass rusher. Still nervous. But I think our defense could still be a good unit. 

[rmw10]

We're going to have to be more creative, but I don't think a 4-3 really changes things.  We'd still be missing an edge guy.

 

Overall, I think we'll just be seeing a lot more of guys in different spots.  I imagine McClellan makes another full time switch to the outside for us.  I could see us trying Arthur Brown as a pure rusher on the outside as well.  I think we'll see a lot of guys in different spots for the time being.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

We're going to have to be more creative, but I don't think a 4-3 really changes things.  We'd still be missing an edge guy.

 

Overall, I think we'll just be seeing a lot more of guys in different spots.  I imagine McClellan makes another full time switch to the outside for us.  I could see us trying Arthur Brown as a pure rusher on the outside as well.  I think we'll see a lot of guys in different spots for the time being.

IDK. I'm in panic mode. I wasn't like this when we lost Jimmy. This is kind of worse. Suggs was probably the best player on defense. He was not only a good pass rusher but an elite edge setter. Upshaw can stop the run. Not worried about that. But we need a pass rusher ASAP and I don't think Za'Darius Smith is ready. 

 

That said

Canty/Davis

Williams

Jernigan

 

Upshaw

Smith

Mosely

Dumervil 

 

is still a very good front 7 all things considered. But maybe a switch to a 4-3 is a tad more ideal. Especially if we bring in a guy like Freeny or Babin. 

[bMore Heathen]

Desperate times my friend. Desperate times.

Otherwise I don't think we're screwed I suppose in the 3-4 we still have the personnel to stop the run. We'll just need a situational pass rusher. Still nervous. But I think our defense could still be a good unit.

Oh, I know man, I know. Thinking more about it, we used to use Upshaw inside in sub packages too. He might not even be long or explosive enough.

What about Dion Jordon from Miami. He seems to have fallen down the depth chart in Miami. He could be versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in the 3-4. Wonder if the fish would be willing to shop him...

[SorryNotSorry]

Upshaw is good at one thing and one thing only.. Stopping the run. He's damn good at it but it's all he's good for. 

Well we still have Zadarius to bring in on pass rush situations. Or bringing in a FA would be options first before switching your base defense this early in. I would keep the base but switch the sub defense to a 3-3 using similar lineup to the one you mentioned.   

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Oh, I know man, I know. Thinking more about it, we used to use Upshaw inside in sub packages too. He might not even be long or explosive enough.

What about Dion Jordon from Miami. He seems to have fallen down the depth chart in Miami. He could be versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in the 3-4. Wonder if the fish would be willing to shop him...

Suspended for the year right? 

[rmw10]

IDK. I'm in panic mode. I wasn't like this when we lost Jimmy. This is kind of worse. Suggs was probably the best player on defense. He was not only a good pass rusher but an elite edge setter. Upshaw can stop the run. Not worried about that. But we need a pass rusher ASAP and I don't think Za'Darius Smith is ready. 

 

That said

Canty/Davis

Williams

Jernigan

 

Upshaw

Smith

Mosely

Dumervil 

 

is still a very good front 7 all things considered. But maybe a switch to a 4-3 is a tad more ideal. Especially if we bring in a guy like Freeny or Babin. 

 

I don't think a switch to a 4-3 would change anything at all.  In fact, I think it takes more talent off the field.  Jernigan, Williams, Canty, Davis, Guy, KLM, and Bilukidi would all be interior guys rotating into 2 spots.  I don't view any of them as DEs in the 4-3.  Arthur Brown hasn't exactly shown he's capable of a starting spot.  Not to mention, if you make that switch, it makes the depth at LB very questionable.

[bMore Heathen]

Suspended for the year right?

Really?!? Must have missed that one.... Back to the drawing board I suppose.

[Static]

I dont know how well Jernigan sets the edge.

 

I think we will just have to hope that Peas calls more designed blitzes. We saw how incredibly well it worked. Against Peyton who can see a blitz very quickly

[redrum52]

I feel like this has become a yearly thread now. No. Hyrdid fronts. Keeps the team versatile and no reason to make a switch like that, especially considering we're already in the season. With Jernigan back, pressure should increase up the middle which makes the outside guys job easier. If Urban can come back, and contribute, the rush shouldn't take that much of a hit. Looking like the stretch of home games at the end will be real valuable now. Oh yea, this is your team now Flacco.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I don't think a switch to a 4-3 would change anything at all.  In fact, I think it takes more talent off the field.  Jernigan, Williams, Canty, Davis, Guy, KLM, and Bilukidi would all be interior guys rotating into 2 spots.  I don't view any of them as DEs in the 4-3.  Arthur Brown hasn't exactly shown he's capable of a starting spot.  Not to mention, if you make that switch, it makes the depth at LB very questionable.

True, very true I suppose. 

 

Then how in god's name do we do this? No team in their right mind will give up a good pass rusher and the people on the market are either old or injured. 

 

It's a crapshoot. And I don't trust ZDS as a rusher.

 

Run defense wise we'll be fine

[Static]

 

It's a crapshoot. And I don't trust ZDS as a rusher.

 

 

Strange because that is what he is good at. In the preseason he consistently got to the QB, while not always quickly he always got there if he had time to maneuver and he was drafted as a pass-rusher.

 

His problem is setting the edge.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Static

[PuRock]

Oh, I know man, I know. Thinking more about it, we used to use Upshaw inside in sub packages too. He might not even be long or explosive enough.

What about Dion Jordon from Miami. He seems to have fallen down the depth chart in Miami. He could be versatile enough to play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in the 3-4. Wonder if the fish would be willing to shop him...

 

As for a trade for anyone, I can't see it happening now.  Ravens have no leverage and will never give up their shirt in a deal.  At this point the help is home grown or Free agency.  

[rmw10]

True, very true I suppose. 

 

Then how in god's name do we do this? No team in their right mind will give up a good pass rusher and the people on the market are either old or injured. 

 

It's a crapshoot. And I don't trust ZDS as a rusher.

 

Run defense wise we'll be fine

 

And therein lies the issue… Pass rush is not something that's easily found.  We're simply not going to find someone like Suggs that can set the edge just as well as he can rush the QB.  Those types are a rare breed.  We're going to have to get creative.  As I alluded to in the other thread, we're going to have to patch it up rather than give it the full fix.  It'll take some rotation and a bit of trying new things.

[balfan23]

True, very true I suppose. 

 

Then how in god's name do we do this? No team in their right mind will give up a good pass rusher and the people on the market are either old or injured. 

 

It's a crapshoot. And I don't trust ZDS as a rusher.

 

Run defense wise we'll be fine

I think ZDS will eventually be a good rusher (the key word there being, "eventually"). What would concern me is his inability to contain. He's only an option on obvious passing situations, and even then, I'm not sure about that starting in week 2. 

 

It is a crap shoot. I do think we're going to bring in someone - likely a vet, but if they were awesome, they wouldn't be waiting for their phone to ring. Just someone for leadership and depth replacement. 

[izvoodoo]

And therein lies the issue… Pass rush is not something that's easily found.  We're simply not going to find someone like Suggs that can set the edge just as well as he can rush the QB.  Those types are a rare breed.  We're going to have to get creative.  As I alluded to in the other thread, we're going to have to patch it up rather than give it the full fix.  It'll take some rotation and a bit of trying new things.

Aldon smith situation or Greg Hardy are basically the only ways.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Even after a decade worth of success with 3-4, i still don't understand this fascination with 4-3.  

 

No, we are sticking with the defense we've been training on for this whole off-season.   That is 3-4.   You will see some 4-3 schemes mixed in there.   But it will stay as what it is.   It is for the better.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

And therein lies the issue… Pass rush is not something that's easily found.  We're simply not going to find someone like Suggs that can set the edge just as well as he can rush the QB.  Those types are a rare breed.  We're going to have to get creative.  As I alluded to in the other thread, we're going to have to patch it up rather than give it the full fix.  It'll take some rotation and a bit of trying new things.

Yeah. All I can say is good thing that our run defense is still stout. Not like he's the sole reason the running defense is good. 

 

Hope some rotations make it easy. No way in hell we can get in a trade. 

[PuRock]

And therein lies the issue… Pass rush is not something that's easily found.  We're simply not going to find someone like Suggs that can set the edge just as well as he can rush the QB.  Those types are a rare breed.  We're going to have to get creative.  As I alluded to in the other thread, we're going to have to patch it up rather than give it the full fix.  It'll take some rotation and a bit of trying new things.

 

Agreed.  But then the question becomes are we capable of being creative?  Guess we'll find out.  

Edited September 14, 2015 by PuRock

[rmw10]

Agreed.  But then the question becomes are we capable of being creative?  Guess we'll find out.  

 

Yep.  I think we can overcome the loss of Suggs, but it's not going to be easy or at the level of Suggs obviously.  It's going to be a work in progress, and I guess we'll see how it goes.

[52N19]

2015 is going to be about the changing of the guard. Davis and smith will need to grow up fast.