The good, bad and ugly vs Broncos

[Ravensfan23]

Oakland needs to serve, at the very least, as a "confidence" game for the offense. They need to be able to protect and move the ball. If they can do that, I'll be content. I don't need to see them putting up 40 for offense, because frankly, I'm not sure this offense is good enough to do that.

 

The idea that "its only Oakland" is viable, because in the playoffs (assuming we consider ourselves to be a playoff caliber team), you're much more likely to face defenses closer to Denver's caliber than you are to Oakland's caliber. So we won't be able to definitively say that the offense is "back" if they have a great game against Oakland, but that we at least know its not solely a personnel and execution problem. Its a combination of the latter with a much more imposing defense.

That's my point. I think and i think the coaches feel that the offense is that good. Maybe not 40 points because it's still a sense of unfamiliar with the offense and it's hard to score 40 on anyone. I saw some routes ran wrong and some blocking assignments missed, but they are good enough to explode on the Raiders or even a better defense imo. As fans we often times just look at results to determine how good or bad things were and the results of the Denver game were ugly. But coaches look at game film and see just how close or far a play was close to being successful or not. Even against the Broncos there were huge plays to be made, it just didn't look like it. There was a few huge running lanes but 1 guy didn't block his guy or the time Flacco had Steve Smith wide open deep over the middle with only 1 guy to beat for a score but Forsett didn't pickup the blitz. If that's Taliaferro who's much better at pass pro maybe its a huge play and possible score instead of a sack.

I personally have no doubt that it was all execution. The only players that looked overmatched were the OTs vs Miller and Ware. I didn't have much issue with the WRs, TEs or Trestman's play call. All could have been better obviously but i really chalked up much of the steuggles to the Broncos having a great knowledge of what the Ravens wanted to do because it was Kubiak's offense. Trestman is really gonna put that Raiders defense to the test. If the offense struggles in this game my concern level would raise.

[Tru11]

Not saying the pick was his fault and yes, Talib is a top CB that made a great read and play, but just no effort from Smitty at all. May not have made a difference, but he could have tried to at least fight through the press. He just gave up.

The DB got a pinky on the game winner yes. But it didn't deflect the ball away at all. You expect a future HOF WR to maintain concentration and make that catch.

Seems Smitty's mind and mouth are making promises that his body can't fulfill.

 

im pretty sure that even a pinky slightly grazing a ball in flight will change its path.

 

if i know physics , i know its nearly impossible for  1  a ball to stay on the same path after it gets in touch with any part of a human body.

 

unless its thrown so hard is goes through that part lol

 

you are arguing roby pinky snapped back due to velocity of the ball?

 

you are the only person so far that argues the ball did not get tipped lol

[Cillmatic]

Yea i'd be surprised if the offense doesn't explode Sunday in Oakland. Of course the talk then will be that Oakland's defense sucks but i think the offense will do some good things. Trestman could have definitely done more and even Harbs alluded to this, in terms of helping out in the pressure department, but in my view that didn't take away from what happened in the back end and Trestman's abilities to get LBs and Safeties matched up on WR.

He set up a lot of things in that game that the Ravens weren't able to get to because they didn't convert on 3rd down enough and sustain drives. Then once the offense did start showing life, the 4th quarter was cut short by an 11:00 drive.

To be fair to Steve the only play i though was a huge negative was the pick 6. Flacco basically threw the ball because it was zero coverage and he didn't expect anyone to be able to stop Smitty from getting to his spot. The plays at the end of the game, he has to make that catch but he was open in the endzone twice and pressure forced Flacco to throw bad balls. I liked the way Trestman moved him around and i expect him to bounce back but he won't have a huge season imo. Never really expected that.

An "exploding" offense by our standard is just ok compared to other good teams. We have NO receivers. Our best receiver is a 37 year old 5'8 player with inconsistent hands. Our #2 WR disappeared. Our #3 can't separate. our unproven draft pick is it until mid-late October. Camp is the only WR that might be productive for the ENTIRE season. Far as I'm concerned Camp and Waller need to be starters. At least they have the potential to bring something to the offense.

[Tru11]

An "exploding" offense by our standard is just ok compared to other good teams. We have NO receivers. Our best receiver is a 37 year old 5'8 player with inconsistent hands. Our #2 WR disappeared. Our #3 can't separate. our unproven draft pick is it until mid-late October. Camp is the only WR that might be productive for the ENTIRE season. Far as I'm concerned Camp and Waller need to be starters. At least they have the potential to bring something to the offense.

 

might as well try them out yes.

 

no point in not playing them.

 

but in the end we will go as far on offense as the o-line will take us,

[Ravensfan23]

An "exploding" offense by our standard is just ok compared to other good teams. We have NO receivers. Our best receiver is a 37 year old 5'8 player with inconsistent hands. Our #2 WR disappeared. Our #3 can't separate. our unproven draft pick is it until mid-late October. Camp is the only WR that might be productive for the ENTIRE season. Far as I'm concerned Camp and Waller need to be starters. At least they have the potential to bring something to the offense.

I'll see you Sunday Night. If all you just said is true then it'll show. I personally feel the "WRs can't get separation" is so over blown. Those guys created plenty of separation against two of the best CBs in the game and non stop pressure on the QB.

There was a total of one play where Flacco was holding the ball waiting on a guy to come open and that was Aiken wh couldn't get off the press of Talib to win inside for Flacco. Other then that Flacco didn't have much time to find guys even when they were open. I'm thinking about posting some screen shots of the numerous time WRs or TEs were open but Flacco couldn't find them because he was under pressure.

[Edgar]

An "exploding" offense by our standard is just ok compared to other good teams. We have NO receivers. Our best receiver is a 37 year old 5'8 player with inconsistent hands. Our #2 WR disappeared. Our #3 can't separate. our unproven draft pick is it until mid-late October. Camp is the only WR that might be productive for the ENTIRE season. Far as I'm concerned Camp and Waller need to be starters. At least they have the potential to bring something to the offense.

That's exactly right. I expect us to win but scoring touchdowns this year will be a drawn out affair for the most part.

It's beginning to look as if the pre season offense wasn't avoiding taking shots simply because they were working on the underneath stuff only.

[Cillmatic]

I'll see you Sunday Night. If all you just said is true then it'll show. I personally feel the "WRs can't get separation" is so over blown. Those guys created plenty of separation against two of the best CBs in the game and non stop pressure on the QB.

There was a total of one play where Flacco was holding the ball waiting on a guy to come open and that was Aiken wh couldn't get off the press of Talib to win inside for Flacco. Other then that Flacco didn't have much time to find guys even when they were open. I'm thinking about posting some screen shots of the numerous time WRs or TEs were open but Flacco couldn't find them because he was under pressure.

Sunday's game won't be a good representation of our receivers. The Raiders just lost both safeties and I think they lost a cornerback. They might have the worst secondary in the league. Me and you might be able to get about 50 yards against them. Edited September 16, 2015 by Cillmatic

[Tank 92]

im pretty sure that even a pinky slightly grazing a ball in flight will change its path.

 

if i know physics , i know its nearly impossible for  1  a ball to stay on the same path after it gets in touch with any part of a human body.

 

unless its thrown so hard is goes through that part lol

 

you are arguing roby pinky snapped back due to velocity of the ball?

 

you are the only person so far that argues the ball did not get tipped lol

Sure it got tipped! Barely..... Just sayin it didn't move much at all and I would expect a good WR to concentrate and make the catch. if you asked him, I bet Smitty would tell you the same.

[ratedr]

An "exploding" offense by our standard is just ok compared to other good teams. We have NO receivers. Our best receiver is a 37 year old 5'8 player with inconsistent hands. Our #2 WR disappeared. Our #3 can't separate. our unproven draft pick is it until mid-late October. Camp is the only WR that might be productive for the ENTIRE season. Far as I'm concerned Camp and Waller need to be starters. At least they have the potential to bring something to the offense.

Agree with every word here.

[gtalk12]

At this point, our strength maybe the the TE's.

[Militant X 1]

Oakland needs to serve, at the very least, as a "confidence" game for the offense. They need to be able to protect and move the ball. If they can do that, I'll be content. I don't need to see them putting up 40 for offense, because frankly, I'm not sure this offense is good enough to do that.

 

The idea that "its only Oakland" is viable, because in the playoffs (assuming we consider ourselves to be a playoff caliber team), you're much more likely to face defenses closer to Denver's caliber than you are to Oakland's caliber. So we won't be able to definitively say that the offense is "back" if they have a great game against Oakland, but that we at least know its not solely a personnel and execution problem. Its a combination of the latter with a much more imposing defense.

 

I definitely agree with this! 

 

A win against the Raiders would be great but definitely not a benchmark in my mind that the Ravens offense is "back" or that they are "studs".  Not hardly!  The question to me is; "What if they are not that good against the Raiders either.  What does that say then?"

[rmcjacket23]

I definitely agree with this! 

 

A win against the Raiders would be great but definitely not a benchmark in my mind that the Ravens offense is "back" or that they are "studs".  Not hardly!  The question to me is; "What if they are not that good against the Raiders either.  What does that say then?"

It says classic non-over-reactors like me will probably start to hit the panic button at least a few times, pending what I see.

 

As good as our defense is, this team isn't good enough to wait until mid-season for the offense to start coming together. Given the teams on our schedule, we would probably be too far behind in the standings for it to matter at that point.

[Tru11]

Sure it got tipped! Barely..... Just sayin it didn't move much at all and I would expect a good WR to concentrate and make the catch. if you asked him, I bet Smitty would tell you the same.

 

so you admit it moved?

 

cause thats the whole point.

 

if you have your hands ready to catch a ball, you can have all the concentration and reflexes in the world , aint nothing you can do if the ball gets tipped  tenths of second before you would get your hands on it.

 

you need to see the play happen in real time and not slow motion.

 

slow motion will leave you with the impression there was enough time to react  the moment the ball got tipped.

 

no way you call this smith choking.

i rather make the argument made a last second play on the ball to save a TD.

 

if he did not touch it , it would have been caught.

[Ravensfan23]

Sunday's game won't be a good representation of our receivers. The Raiders just lost both safeties and I think they lost a cornerback. They might have the worst secondary in the league. Me and you might be able to get about 50 yards against them.

So if they go out and play well against a average or below average secondary it won't matter. But when they struggle largely do to terrible protection they all suck and Ozzie needs to make a trade?

I agree that having a good game vs the Raiders won't say much, but if you and others are saying it's impossible for the offense to have the same type of performance as the Bengals did because the offense isn't that talented. I think it'll start to speak to the talent the offense has if given the chance.

[rmcjacket23]

Sunday's game won't be a good representation of our receivers. The Raiders just lost both safeties and I think they lost a cornerback. They might have the worst secondary in the league. Me and you might be able to get about 50 yards against them.

Technically, yes.

 

It will be a bad representation if they don't play well (assuming our Oline blocks better). But it won't be a great representation if they do play well.

 

Its a lose lose proposition this week for our receiving core. But they'll have opportunities to prove themselves in the near future.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

But do they have a pass rush that can produce pressure as quick as Ware and Miller consistently did? The issue wasn't necessarily the pressure but the quick pressure. Ware nearly sacked Flacco on a freaking screen play. I'm not saying the Raiders won't get pressure or sacks but i don't think they'll be able to get quick pressure consistently like the Broncos and i don't think they'll be able to stay as patient in the run game like Denver did.

 

Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with you just responding to the part where you were saying that people will say that the Raiders defense sucks.  I think Oakland will be a better indicator on how well our offensive line is going to look this year, but beyond that I'm not going to draw too many conclusions.

[Tank 92]

so you admit it moved?

 

cause thats the whole point.

 

if you have your hands ready to catch a ball, you can have all the concentration and reflexes in the world , aint nothing you can do if the ball gets tipped  tenths of second before you would get your hands on it.

 

you need to see the play happen in real time and not slow motion.

 

slow motion will leave you with the impression there was enough time to react  the moment the ball got tipped.

 

no way you call this smith choking.

i rather make the argument made a last second play on the ball to save a TD.

 

if he did not touch it , it would have been caught.

 

 

You act like it's impossible to catch a ball that's slightly tipped. It's done all the time. Players make plays, I would have expected Smitty to make that play. He had a bad game. It's done. I just hope the old man can man up and play well moving forward. 

[Ravensfan23]

It says classic non-over-reactors like me will probably start to hit the panic button at least a few times, pending what I see.

 

As good as our defense is, this team isn't good enough to wait until mid-season for the offense to start coming together. Given the teams on our schedule, we would probably be too far behind in the standings for it to matter at that point.

Agreed. The offense needs to get in track right now and a great showing against the Raiders will help. The defense will be lights out but even moreso of the offense can allow them to play with leads. If the offense doesn't step up the Ravens will be looking for help from other teams early.

It may not matter anyway. I heard Skip Bayless pick the Ravens to win the North today. That has to be the kiss of death right?

[Militant X 1]

It says classic non-over-reactors like me will probably start to hit the panic button at least a few times, pending what I see.

 

As good as our defense is, this team isn't good enough to wait until mid-season for the offense to start coming together. Given the teams on our schedule, we would probably be too far behind in the standings for it to matter at that point.

 

That is the truth!  I've always said that for me, in my view of things; it is all about "how" a team looks in the process of a game.  And based upon what I've seen so far from this first game (which they knew was on the schedule and had plenty of time to prepare for)....I feel that the Ravens offense is very suspect.  Can they improve?  Yes!  Will they?  That remains to be seen starting on Sunday against the Raiders.

[Ravensfan23]

You act like it's impossible to catch a ball that's slightly tipped. It's done all the time. Players make plays, I would have expected Smitty to make that play. He had a bad game. It's done. I just hope the old man can man up and play well moving forward.

I think the fact that Steve Smith himself said he should have made the play is enough to say he should have made the play. He's gonna make that play, especially considering how poorly the offense had played prior. Make that play, steal a win and go to Oakland knowing that you weren't really good but was good enough to beat one of the teams you'll battle for a #1 or #2 seed.

[wizard1]

You guys are phenomenal on this thread and I'm happy to see some are questioning what kind of team do we have this year. This is going to be uncovered early in the season considering the blistering schedule. I think a huge can of worms has been opened starting with Trestman's  game plan and play calling. I'm already calling for his ouster. Anyone remember how ugly it got in Chicago near the end?

[HoldingCall]

I'll see you Sunday Night. If all you just said is true then it'll show. I personally feel the "WRs can't get separation" is so over blown. Those guys created plenty of separation against two of the best CBs in the game and non stop pressure on the QB.

There was a total of one play where Flacco was holding the ball waiting on a guy to come open and that was Aiken wh couldn't get off the press of Talib to win inside for Flacco. Other then that Flacco didn't have much time to find guys even when they were open. I'm thinking about posting some screen shots of the numerous time WRs or TEs were open but Flacco couldn't find them because he was under pressure.

Very true! Seems this is already shaping up to be another (Anquan Boldin) "he can't get separation" kind of season. Sorry for bringing that back up, but I think it's funny.

[HoldingCall]

You guys are phenomenal on this thread and I'm happy to see some are questioning what kind of team do we have this year. This is going to be uncovered early in the season considering the blistering schedule. I think a huge can of worms has been opened starting with Trestman's  game plan and play calling. I'm already calling for his ouster. Anyone remember how ugly it got in Chicago near the end?

Put the phone on hold, we will know a lot after the (first quarter) fourth game. I wasn't overly thrilled with the calls either but some of the failure likely had to do with the OL and not necessarily the plays called.

[Ravensfan23]

Very true! Seems this is already shaping up to be another (Anquan Boldin) "he can't get separation" kind of season. Sorry for bringing that back up, but I think it's funny.

Yea what sucked was the oline didn't allow fans to see Trestman's impact on the passing game. I personally don't think the Ravens have any studs at the WR position but the way Trestman creates space in the defense will allow those guys to make a lot of plays. The more and more Trestman gets comfortable with this group of TEs and WRs the better those guys will play.

Somebody said without Perriman this will look like the Cam led offense in 2010. I disagree because the biggest difference is that Trestman is creative and does a good job of creating matchups. Cam just said go out and win your routes. There were a couple times in that game Trestman got Aiken and Smith matched up on LBs and Safeties, but they couldn't get to those matchups because of pressure. These guys are good enough to win but Trestman will get them more favorable matchups

[52520Andrew]

Per RSR:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/09/16/filmstudy/ravens-tackles-fail-in-denver/

Barf.

[HoldingCall]

Per RSR:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2015/09/16/filmstudy/ravens-tackles-fail-in-denver/

Barf.

The photo says it all!

[Tank 92]

I think the fact that Steve Smith himself said he should have made the play is enough to say he should have made the play. He's gonna make that play, especially considering how poorly the offense had played prior. Make that play, steal a win and go to Oakland knowing that you weren't really good but was good enough to beat one of the teams you'll battle for a #1 or #2 seed.

Too much dry cereal and apple juice. He'll be aight. lol

[52520Andrew]

CJ Mosely has the same amount of sacks this year as JJ Watt so there is that

[Crusader]

Two runs and then a pass. Sound familiar?

[Filmstudy]

If you ever wanted to pick a game where coaching was a limited factor, this was it.

 

The Ravens lost this game almost entirely due to Miller and Ware taking Hurst and Wagner to the woodshed.  It would have been nearly impossible to double either, let alone both.  And by doing so, you sacrifice or delay eligible receivers.  It's an addage almost as old as the forward pass that the ability to create 4-man pressure is the easiest path to defensive dominance.

 

Even during the final drive 16-play drive when the Denver pass rush should have been tired, Hurst gave up 6 pressure events and Wagner 5!

 

The Ravens didn't get outcoached, they got outplayed.