The good, bad and ugly vs Broncos

[HoldingCall]

Yeah, for some reason Flacco never gets a pass when his O-line is atrocious like it was on Sunday. The fact that we were one Steve Smith, Sr. drop from winning has my outlook a lot more positive. Plus, we get the Raiders next week

I disagree! Joe got a pass from everyone except a few. Even, I've been critical at times but this past weekend was too obvious that it was an OL problem. In fact I gave the WRs a pass also for the most part, because it isn't easy getting through a route in 1.5-2.5 seconds with separation. Particularly a route that sends the WR down field. A problem I observed was that either the play call or the WR didn't shorten routes when Joe was in trouble. Was that on the WR, the OC, the WR coach? I'm not sure! I think it being early in the season makes that problem correctable.

[PurpleCity5]

Exactly!

And the Ravens don't! They sit the young guys and bring in older guys on the last legs of their careers and then we expect them to play like Dez Bryant, A.J. Green, Antoine Brown and Julio Jones for example. Not happening!

Yeah, but hopefully that will change with Perriman. Hoping hes our franchise WR, would love to see him prove everyone wrong.

Good thing is, we won't have to go up against a CB group as terrifying as Denvers.

[Ravensfan23]

Saying he was more aggressive than last year because of personnel is fine. Saying he called the same game he always called last year is not accurate though. We saw far fewer 3 and 4 man rushes and more blitz packages than we saw probably all of last year outside of the Pitt playoff game.

 

Outside of our last offensive series, Trestman ran the ball on 1st & 2nd down plays 66% of the time. That remained constant in the 2nd half until our last series. That is vanilla and predictable play calling.

 

It is one game and his first game so we'll see going forward but that is a trend that will kill us if it continues.

No i said it's the same game he calls when he has trust in his CBs to cover. Go back last year and watch every defensive snap vs the Falcons, Saints, Titans, both Bengals games a few others. Hell you can even watch highlights and see just aggressive the defense wasbin coverage and blitzing, then Pees would mix in soft zones. It was no difference because he had trust in the DBs and the game stayed close. If Peyton had connected on the few big play chances he had and the score ballooned to about 17-3 at half which was easily a possibility you would have seen Pees play more of the bend but don't break and don't let any big plays over your head because we don't want the score to get too far out of reach. Didn't didn't blitz any more then he usually does when his defense is playing well.

I won't say what was ir wasn't with the offense. But asking Trestman to learn a new offense and go against the man that installed that offense with much of the same players in his first game is an nearly impossible task. I personally thought the offense looked predictable because it was Kubiak's offense and Wade Phillips has been exposed to that offense much more then Trestman has. If it were any other team i feel the play calling would have netted higher production.

[GhostofGrbac]

flacco is just inconsistant. Im not fan of skip bayless but he once called him ''the best, Worst quarter back he's ever seen''.

 

I'm beginning to see it that way too.

 

You better duck lol.

 

I agree with you though. Flacco is one of the most inconsistent QB's in the NFL. He's an Eli Manning clone. 

[ratedr]

 

Heres a quote from PFF“I have never seen an offensive line annihilated in a must-pass situation as badly as the Ravens’ was at the end of the game,” wrote PFF’s Michael Renner. “I’m not sure there was a play where Joe Flacco could have taken more than three seconds to throw and not gotten sacked. … You’d be hard-pressed to see a quarterback pressured more than he was Sunday.”

That tells you all you need to know.

 

From the same article:

 

Speaking of Flacco, the Super Bowl-winning quarterback did all he could, but no QB in the league could have thrived under what he was given Sunday. He was pressured on 22 of his 34 dropbacks, even though his average time to throw was just 2.49 seconds. You’d be hard-pressed to see a quarterback pressured more than he was Sunday, and his -1.7 grade reflects that. While he didn’t play well, it wasn’t entirely his fault on offense.

[The Mom Gene]

From the same article:

 

Speaking of Flacco, the Super Bowl-winning quarterback did all he could, but no QB in the league could have thrived under what he was given Sunday. He was pressured on 22 of his 34 dropbacks, even though his average time to throw was just 2.49 seconds. You’d be hard-pressed to see a quarterback pressured more than he was Sunday, and his -1.7 grade reflects that. While he didn’t play well, it wasn’t entirely his fault on offense.

 

Yes ratedr...  It came from the LFW...  which is a compilation of SEVERAL different media outlets.  Point being that everyone...  not just fans, but as I had said...  Coaches, Analysts, and the like are all hailing the game as one of the best defensive games in years.

[ratedr]

Yes ratedr...  It came from the LFW...  which is a compilation of SEVERAL different media outlets.

Oh I haven't read LFW yet today...I grabbed that directly from PFF (which, by the way, is not always kind to Flacco).

[The Mom Gene]

Oh I haven't read LFW yet today...I grabbed that directly from PFF (which, by the way, is not always kind to Flacco).

 

Yeah, it was there too.  But PFF, NBC, NFLN, and ESPN have all said the same things....  There was no way either of these teams was going to score offensively...  They mirrored each other defensively.

[Edgar]

flacco is just inconsistant. Im not fan of skip bayless but he once called him ''the best, Worst quarter back he's ever seen''.

 

I'm beginning to see it that way too.

Please never use skip bayless to make a point.

[jimmypowder]

From the same article:

 

Speaking of Flacco, the Super Bowl-winning quarterback did all he could, but no QB in the league could have thrived under what he was given Sunday. He was pressured on 22 of his 34 dropbacks, even though his average time to throw was just 2.49 seconds. You’d be hard-pressed to see a quarterback pressured more than he was Sunday, and his -1.7 grade reflects that. While he didn’t play well, it wasn’t entirely his fault on offense.

22 out of 34! Crazy. One of the worst oline performances from a Ravens team Ive ever seen. A Steelers game or two come to mind but the Broncos game was nuts. I really thought Joe was gonna get hurt badly for the first time in his career.

[ratedr]

22 out of 34! Crazy. One of the worst oline performances from a Ravens team Ive ever seen. A Steelers game or two come to mind but the Broncos game was nuts. I really thought Joe was gonna get hurt badly for the first time in his career.

And the craziest thing is that we STILL almost won. It's nuts.

[balfan23]

The 2013 season featured a lot of games that looked like this. Actually, it felt like we lived with it the entire season. I am eager to see us bounce back from this and prove that it was a combination of just having a bad game, combined with facing a very talented and a seriously hyped D. As 2013 showed, if our o line functions properly, we're a playoff team. If it doesn't, then we're not. 

[January J]

i thought joe said they were working hard during camp with making defenses pay when they bring pressure? definitely didnt see any of that. i also thought he would get bailed out by campanaro but he offered no help and basically was nowhere to be found. zero screens, and didnt even throw to gilmore until the last drive. was really confused by all of this. i understand there is alot that goes on behind the scenes that im not aware of so i will just chalk it up to that, but im definitely hoping to see some major improvments over the next few weeks. very pleased with the defense.

[Tank 92]

Please never use skip bayless to make a point.

 

 

LMAO!  a very true statement.

[ratedr]

i thought joe said they were working hard during camp with making defenses pay when they bring pressure? definitely didnt see any of that. i also thought he would get bailed out by campanaro but he offered no help and basically was nowhere to be found. zero screens, and didnt even throw to gilmore until the last drive. was really confused by all of this. i understand there is alot that goes on behind the scenes that im not aware of so i will just chalk it up to that, but im definitely hoping to see some major improvments over the next few weeks. very pleased with the defense.

There's pressure and there's PRESSURE. No QB is going to do anything when he's getting pressured on 70% of his dropbacks. That's just a ridiculous number.

[FerrariFan87]

There's pressure and there's PRESSURE. No QB is going to do anything when he's getting pressured on 70% of his dropbacks. That's just a ridiculous number.

Exactly. Though, to be fair, Trestman, et al. could've adjusted to the rush and worked in quicker plays, screens, etc.

[Tank 92]

i thought joe said they were working hard during camp with making defenses pay when they bring pressure? definitely didnt see any of that. i also thought he would get bailed out by campanaro but he offered no help and basically was nowhere to be found. zero screens, and didnt even throw to gilmore until the last drive. was really confused by all of this. i understand there is alot that goes on behind the scenes that im not aware of so i will just chalk it up to that, but im definitely hoping to see some major improvments over the next few weeks. very pleased with the defense.

 

Do you feel there is another QB out there who could have done more with what Flacco had to work with in Denver?

[Tank 92]

Exactly. Though, to be fair, Trestman, et al. could've adjusted to the rush and worked in quicker plays, screens, etc.

 

 

I think the problem may have been that Denver's DBs had no reason to think anyone was running by them so they played tight to the man all day.  Not sure, just a thought.

[dollyssara]

The biggest difference between to O line from last year is Trestman.  Justin just didn't have the holes Sunday. Trestman stuck way to long with a scheme that did not protect Joe, Dissappointing play calling. But the Defense played AWESOME. The secondary PLAYED.  Even without Timmy, the D line and the backers looked stout.  

Back to Treatman: John cannot let him stay in charge of play calling if he can't adjust in real time.  He had that issue in Chicago.

[-Truth-]

Hurst and Wagner were consistently beaten off the edge and Justin Forsett struggled with chips. It had very little to do with the scheme. Flacco was under fire on over 64% of his dropbacks, the most of any QB this week. That's practically 10% higher than the next player. We played against an elite defense with a plethora of pass rushers and we were down an LT. The problem was in the execution.

Edited September 16, 2015 by -Truth-

[frozen joe flacco fan]

GOOD - Our defense held Peyton Manning to no TDs

BAD - Offense allowed a 51 yard return after an interception; one of the commentators commented that Steve Smith made no effort to try to break up the INT by getting underneath the defender. Granted, Joe apparently telegraphed the pass. It was an extremely poor effort on both ends.   

UGLY - Two dropped passes on perfectly thrown balls on potential game-winning drive. T-Sizzle is gone for the season and there is NOBODY ready to carry his cleats, much less to fill his shoes. So, the next man up is ??????????????

 

Aside from the above, perhaps the most costly and overlooked play of the game was the inability of our defense to keep the Broncos from picking up a critical 1st down when we had them backed up deep in their territory on a 3rd & 18. That was reminiscent of last year's play by the keystone cops backfield. Final pic by Darian Stewart literally just added insult to injury. The game should have been a Phyrric victory by us; instead, it was a wasted opportunity. On a day we held the Denver offense to just over 200 yard of total offense, we lost. Its that simple. Bottom line: everybody did not play like a Raven. You can fill in the names as well as I can.

[ravensdan]

How different is this game if D Smith hauls in two picks in Denver territory. That guy still doesn't get enough credit though.

[PuRock]

Hurst and Wagner were consistently beaten off the edge and Justin Forsett struggled with chips. It had very little to do with the scheme. Flacco was under fire on over 64% of his dropbacks. That's practically 10% higher than the next player. We played against an elite defense with a plethora of pass rushers and we were down an LT. The problem was in the execution.

 

Exactly. You still need execution for any scheme to work.  Reminds me of all the criticism that Pees got when he lacked the players who could execute. Same thing happened on Sunday.  Players were failing to execute on an individual level against a great defense.  But unlike the D of years past, we know this group of guys are capable of executing to turn things around.  

 

Throwing Trestman under the bus is just par for the course as a Ravens fan.  New guy, we sucked first game.  I get it.  Let's see how it plays out.  I would hate it if my employer judged me after my first week of live action.  

[Tank 92]

Anyone complaining about PI on the Gilmore play needs to sit back and realize we got a pick 6 in the post season off blatant PI. Let it go. It was a good no call.

 

 

Right.  Then there's also been calls like this.........  http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/NFLN-Smith-Sr-Game-Winning-TD-Called-Back/1ea74a34-01f1-4918-9ed2-668b656b5f08

[redrum52]

He did push off. I can't think of many games where a ref calls back a play like that but it is what it is.

I think if that play stood I would have won fantasy too.

[FlackAttack]

You better duck lol.

 

I agree with you though. Flacco is one of the most inconsistent QB's in the NFL. He's an Eli Manning clone. 

 

I've been saying this for years . Joe Flacco is the AFC's Eli Manning. And thats not a knock on Joe. Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are both good QBs, but he needs weapons around him. He's not like an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady that makes players around them better, its the complete opposite. Give them time in the pocket, great weapons on the outside, good running game, good defense etc. they'll tear you up because they have big, accurate arms when they have time.. but if the game is solely on their shoulders then nothing will come out of it except interceptions.

 

And best believe they turn up come playoff time.

[FlackAttack]

Right.  Then there's also been calls like this.........  http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/NFLN-Smith-Sr-Game-Winning-TD-Called-Back/1ea74a34-01f1-4918-9ed2-668b656b5f08

 

That was probably the worst call during the 2014 season. Both players have their hands on each other and the bengals player falls over because he couldnt put on his breaks, while Steve was simply eyeing the ball the whole time. Awful Awful call.

[Tank 92]

He did push off. I can't think of many games where a ref calls back a play like that but it is what it is.

I think if that play stood I would have won fantasy too.

Sure he pushed off, but the guy tripped over his own feet and was falling down with no chance to make a play. Smitty nudged him away to change direction.

I get that there's calls and no calls. But think about any time a DB is beaten and contacts a receiver like that without looking for the ball. PI 99% of the time.

[Militant X 1]

Yeah, but hopefully that will change with Perriman. Hoping hes our franchise WR, would love to see him prove everyone wrong.

Good thing is, we won't have to go up against a CB group as terrifying as Denvers.

 

It doesn't matter PC.  We will still witness and hear that our receivers can't get "separation" from the DB's.  We've been hearing that for years and nothing has changed!  At some point, we have to admit that it is the offensive personnel!  They are incapable of out-battling the man in front of them to make a play.  Sad to see when I watch other teams WR's seem to constantly get open and hit with passes in stride for huge gains down the field.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Militant X 1

[BmoreBird22]

Who cares about zone coverage? It's viable as anything.

BUT when you couple it with lack of pressure on the QB or playing 10 yds off, it's easy for a QB to sit back and read. The best thing Pees did was the unique blitzes, DBs coming through B gaps, Will Hill running up to the line then bailing back. It's confusing for an offense and gave us a lot of shots at Peyton. Peyton seemed to relish when we only rushed 3 and sat in zone because he could pat the ball and make an easy completion.

Go look at the "Next up, Denver Broncos" thread and see how many people said, "I don't want to see any of that soft zone crap."

 

It's usually 6-8 yards off (ten is a good exaggerating in most cases), but, conversely, especially in zones where corners are asked to sit back usually (even if they're playing press bail), the corners are also reading the quarterback. On Jimmy's pick six, what is he doing? He's sitting 8 yards back reading Peyton Manning and made one hell of a break on a player that wasn't even his responsibility. That's just intelligent football coupled with great athleticism. That's what people were missing last year. The Ravens probably played more zone yesterday than they did man coverage. I would also venture to say that Jimmy played less press man than he did with a fairly good cushion because he's actually able to break on the ball. I'm almost certain Webb was asked to play press man because he could not break onto the ball in off-man situation. 

 

What Dean Pees did was not that far off what he normally did. Walking a player up the line of scrimmage and then having them bail is not new. He's done it plenty with Daryl/Mosley, Upshaw, and even the slot corners off the edge who will bail into a zone after faking a blitz. It's nothing new. Safety blitzes aren't anything new, either. Again, the execution was just far more acceptable because the players weren't practice squad players, castoffs, and what not. 

 

Similar to how Trestman couldn't operate a decent offense due to the lack of protection from the offensive tackles (how do two players get -10 or worse grades?), Pees couldn't do anything last year because he didn't have the proper players. However, equip a good coordinator with the right pieces and suddenly he's going to be able to call a game the way he wants.