[News] Late For Work 9/11: The Picks Are In: Plenty Doubt Ravens Can Beat Broncos

[dhartm2]

I'm still blaming the Orioles, cause they can reschedule a game for raining why not for a celebration like that. The 2013 opener is gone, same as the orange birds. Go Ravens

The NFL not allowing the game to be moved to Wednesday due to a BS Rosh Hashana excuse was the problem, not the Orioles.  To move the game for that reason the Orioles, the Cubs (I think), and the MLBPA would of all had to sign off.  The Orioles have incentive because they want to look good to a common fan base.  But why in the world would the Cubs or the rest of the MLB players want to do it?

[omar586]

i can tell one thing for sure, tucker's acting is nice and he might end up in Hollywood after nfl. about denvers game, we gonna kick their butt

[FloridalovesRavens]

Sometime somewhere the Pats will get what they deserve. It may take a while but payback is a real bear! Go Ravens.

[Crusader]

Karma is dead. Evil is in charge now.

[rmcjacket23]

The NFL not allowing the game to be moved to Wednesday due to a BS Rosh Hashana excuse was the problem, not the Orioles.  To move the game for that reason the Orioles, the Cubs (I think), and the MLBPA would of all had to sign off.  The Orioles have incentive because they want to look good to a common fan base.  But why in the world would the Cubs or the rest of the MLB players want to do it?

I believe it was the White Sox, and logistically, it was a major hassle for all teams involved. It was the last game the Orioles and White Sox were going to play that season, and there was only one joint "open" date for both teams, which would have meant the White Sox would have had to waste their scheduled "off" day to fly to Baltimore for a one game series, and then either fly home or fly somewhere else that night or the next day.

 

I don't necessarily blame the NFL either. Just an unfortunate timing and circumstances mostly.

[PersianRaven]

Fixing games isn't even remotely on the same playing field as deflating some footballs or videotaping practices.

 

For what its worth, guys who were perceived as to have been fixing games (Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe) are banned from their sport for life.

 

They are both Baseball players! and one was born in the late 1800. I said sports. and match fixing in Italy is common. Mafia does that as we speak. Teams who cheat should lose titles. PLAIN & SIMPLE. 

[The Mom Gene]

NOW BACK ON TOPIC BOYS!

[January J]

For the sqeelers.... it sounds like more sour grapes. They always have an excuse! When in reality.... they cannot stop Brady. He is 8-2 vs the sqeelers and has a ridiculous TD to INT ratio vs them. He has to wish he could play Pittburgh every week. Secondly they had no answer for Gronk. (most of the league don't) but how to they leave Him of all people uncovered in the REDZONE????? How do they play a cover two and let the best TE in the game split you seam for 50 yards. Head set issues are not the teams doing it is the leagues and regardless of how they were communicating or not... they looked clueless when it came to both BRADY /GRONK and I don't think any headset or anything else would have mattered. TBH... I think on 3 of Gronks 3 TD's the Pats could have told them the play and the sqeelers still couldn't have stopped it. More sour grapes for Tomlin and his tin men!

didn't sound like sour grapes to me. Tomlin akknowledged that his team got outplayed and beat on the feild. He simply stated what happened, and that it happens every time he plays there. Yes I'm sure it's happened before in other stadium, but every single time? Against a team that has a track record of this kind of stuff. Yes they are that arrogant, and they probably thought if they did something like that no one would actually believe they were that dumb and they could just play the "c'mon guys this is seriously getting ridiculous" card. People are finally seeing through their shenanigans. ( except for pats fans and a select few who seem to be in denial) funny how everytime the nfl rep went to the steelers sideline to fix the problem they mysteriously started working again, then when he walked away they started hearing the patriots broadcast again. Whether they really intentionally did this or not , there's no way you can say that it doesn't Atleast smell funny. It reaks. And they are definitely arrogant and smart enough to pull this off, just to give the nfl the middle finger. I would be a little irritated if I was Tomlin too, week 1 in New England, this shouldn't be an issue, regardless of why it happened. Edited September 11, 2015 by January J

[huntrgathrr]

There isn't a person on the planet that can predict the outcome of this game. The Ravens have the edge in personnel but Denver has the home field. The key questions will be decided on the field and will determine the outcome: 1. Can Baltimore get consistent pressure on Manning due to Denver's weakened offensive line? 2. Can Denver run the ball which will allow Manning to roll out and make play action effective? If the answer to these 2 questions is no then Denver doesn't have a chance. As a drop back passer against Baltimore Manning has no chance. 3. Can Baltimore's offensive line open up running lanes for Forsett?? If they do then Joe will have a field day with play action and the occasional downfield bomb. Denver's secondary is not up to full strength and that could cost them.

Baltimore has the edge in this game but execution and turnovers will tell the story. Although Kubiak is aware of Crockett Gilmore, I think he proves to be the game breaker. But make no mistake about it, this game will be won in the trenches and that is where Baltimore wants it.

Baltimore 33 Denver 24

[Cillmatic]

Anyone else REALLY questioning their loyalty to the NFL? I really don't like the league right now. First spygate, then they fine Brandon Marshall for trying to help people with mental illness and now all of this recent crap. It's just too much. I'm officially COMPLETELY anti-Goodell. They need to fix things now. People are getting tired of this crap.

[January J]

Cool... and the NFL's reaction to it defines whether it was significant or not.

The going into visitor locker room thing is an accusation, not an incident. You choose to care about it because it helps your case, I choose to not care. Neither of us has seen any evidence from this, and there's been no investigation about it. All we've got is an OTL report that asks some people about it. We fans have rejected similar reports about our very own team in the past when we were the one's being investigated.

Funky receiver plays are irrelevant to me for the thousandth time, because they were legal. If its legal, I've got no problem with it. The moral card has no effect on my fanhood when I'm watching a sport where the only goal of that sport for me is to be entertained.

They were probably doing it for a reason, but that doesn't necessarily make it significant enough to make it a federal case (literally). Significance is inherently subjective, and I'm judging my perception of significance based on what the NFL's perception of significance is, because that's what matters.

If you think its incredibly significant, cool. The NFL largely disagrees with you, so there's that.

You think that because were ravens fans were not looking at the situation objectively, and I think you enjoy playing the devils advocate. you can choose to ignore the mountain of circumstantial evidence all you want, some of us aren't that naive.

[ravenwildman]

Since the Steelers lost yesterday it takes some of the pressure off the Ravens. I say just go out there in Denver and do what you do and have fun. Hammer them good! GO RAVENS!

[RRRRRavens]

Fixing games isn't even remotely on the same playing field as deflating some footballs or videotaping practices.

 

For what its worth, guys who were perceived as to have been fixing games (Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe) are banned from their sport for life.

Jacket, for once I agree with you.  Frankly I don't see why the league doesn't let each team's offense use the inflation pressure they want when they are on the field.  Several QB's have said they actually like a HARDER ball, not a softer ball.  Let'em choose and let's get on with it and "play ball!'.

[OriolesMagicPlease]

I really can't figure out why people are ignoring the fact that the NFL used the Jewish holiday as an excuse and they are playing games on a Jewish holiday this year! If you're against teams playing on the holiday, then you are against it. You can't be against it only when it applies to the Ravens and not any other team at any other time. It is a bunch of baloney.

[January J]

1. Yes, I do think a lot of people are not looking at it objectively. I think if you brought an objective person in here to analyze the posts on these boards, you'd find they'd agree with that assessment. I think if you step back and look at a lot of the posts, there's tons of emotions in them (mostly negative). Its borderline impossible to be objective AND emotional at the same time.

2. Largely yes, I ignore circumstantial evidence when that circumstantial evidence has been refuted by sources just as reputable as the people who report the other side. If I were to 100% accept all what the Wells Report said, and 100% reject any of the statements Judge Berman or the NFLPA made, how could I possibly call myself objective?

In cases like these, where its essentially just a bunch of "he said, he said", I take a step back and ask myself how relevant it all is and why do I think it warrants this amount of attention. To this moment, I can't figure that out. Once that happens, I can't buy any of the emotional outbursts.

There's a fine line between being naive and just listening to both sides of an argument...

i would agree with that if we were just talking about one or two incidents, but there's comes a point in time where you can't just keep turning the other cheek and chalking these things up to coincidence. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

If something happens once- ok just a mere coincidence

Something happens twice - a little weird but no big deal. It happens.

When something similar happens 3 or more times with the same organization - something is up.

Judge Bergman never really argued the specifics of the case and which you know his ruling had nothing to do with what happened and what didn't happen- it was about whether the punishment was justified and about the process. Now if you want to talk about the nfl going too far with their punishments and the severity of the things the pats are actually doping that is obviously debatable... But at this point I don't think any rationally thinking person can deny that the pats have not been bending the rules and finding illegal competitive advantages on several occasions. Just way too much has occurred for you to say otherwise. Opposing Teams are afraid to Even talk strategy In the foxborough locker room. Everybody around the league knows that the pats practice shady tactics, that's a fact. Do other teams/players do things to bend the rules as well? Sure. But when they are caught they cooperate and stop doing it. But obviously the pats have taken it to another level and have a track record for being repetitve offenders.therefore they should be held to a higher standard, and it's stupid to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Minionhunter]

There isn't a person on the planet that can predict the outcome of this game. [sNIP] Baltimore 33 Denver 24

Except you?

This was an excellent post with some [unintended?] humor at the end.

[steelcityraven]

JanuaryJ.... I dislike the Cheatriots as much as anyone but they have nothing to do with the headsets. Those are provided by the NFL, kept and maintained by the NFL. The only thing the patriots had to do with this is that they allowed the NFL to plug it in at thier stadium. I am all for calling things what they are but to suggest that billicheck somehow got the NFL to cheat for him is simply ridiculous and sounds out of touch with reality. Does MIke Tomlin think that they have an electrician in the stadium manipulating the voltage to just to the steelers headset. I think that the Patriots have done everything they can to push the envelope in looking for an advantage but at some point the conversation just gets silly. The NFL Monitors the communication even...and can (and have) confirmed that this was an issue for both teams. Bill Cowher and Herm Edwards said that communication issues are not uncommon in bad weather...and that all teams have alternate ways to communicate in the event that something happens. Cowher stated that it is a preparation issue (if it was an issue). This is a lot of crying about nothing for the sqeelers. The real issue is the can not stop Brady and cannot stop Gronk! those are the bottom lines.

[Minionhunter]

Three positives from last night.

1. Steelers lost (one of our cheif rivals was going to loose, only bad thing would have been a tie).

2. Patriots fumbled (fumbling stats will revert to the norm this year without those soft balls).

3. Patriots were exposed on O & D for those paying attention, but outwardly appeared strong. They can now be faded next week at the Bills.

 

Bonus: I think the one and maybe only thing that Steelers and Ravens fans can agree on/have in common, at least the [insert S or R team name] aren't the Patriots.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Minionhunter

[RavensBaltimore]

1. Yes, I do think a lot of people are not looking at it objectively. I think if you brought an objective person in here to analyze the posts on these boards, you'd find they'd agree with that assessment. I think if you step back and look at a lot of the posts, there's tons of emotions in them (mostly negative). Its borderline impossible to be objective AND emotional at the same time.

 

2. Largely yes, I ignore circumstantial evidence when that circumstantial evidence has been refuted by sources just as reputable as the people who report the other side. If I were to 100% accept all what the Wells Report said, and 100% reject any of the statements Judge Berman or the NFLPA made, how could I possibly call myself objective?

 

In cases like these, where its essentially just a bunch of "he said, he said", I take a step back and ask myself how relevant it all is and why do I think it warrants this amount of attention. To this moment, I can't figure that out. Once that happens, I can't buy any of the emotional outbursts.

 

There's a fine line between being naive and just listening to both sides of an argument...

You seriously think you are being objective here? It doesn't matter if you accept 100% of the Wells report. Those texts, along with the video of the "deflator" bringing footballs into the bathroom, along with Brady's denial of knowing him, along with the texts and gifts Brady got him(which coincidentally matched the gifts in the texts to a tee) make it obvious, to any objective person, what happened. Saying the rest of the report is flawed is like saying OJ is innocent because the glove doesn't fit. You're picking out irrelevant evidence that suits your purpose, which is the opposite of what objective people do. No objective person would think the Patriots would have magically stopped fumbling after they got to bring their own balls to each game, a rule that Brady lobbied for. Ignoring logic and saying, "it's only circumstantial" is what defense attorneys do. Objective people use common sense. This isn't CSI. In reality, you're not going to get scientific proof very often, but the circumstances can make it easy to figure out what happened.

 

You can call it a bunch of "he said, she said", but the Patriots have consistently gotten caught and/or accused of cheating by reputable sources for years, with mountains of evidence to support it. It's incredibly naive to think that just happens for no reason. Where's there's smoke there's fire. The "everyone's jealous because they win so much" argument doesn't hold an ounce of water. Other teams have won more SBs than the Patriots, and none of them have ever been constantly accused of cheating by people involved with the league.

 

In reality, past behavior is a great indicator of future behavior. The fact that the Patriots have a long history of cheating greatly increases the chances that they were cheating again. If this was an isolated situation, you may have a valid point, but it isn't. You may be able to pick out a rebuttal in each individual situation, with some of them being valid, and some of them not so valid, but put it all together, and.......come on. Really? No objective person thinks that the Patriots have simply been on the unlucky end of constant false accusations for the past decade, with a ton of evidence "coincidentally" supporting these accusations.

[TheSim]

I'm not arguing that the Patriots were behind it, but the "NFL provides the headsets" argument is a non-starter. It's their stadium, their facilities, their cables and they have unmonitored access to all of that stuff year round. If they wanted to patch into the opponents' system and interfere with it, they could.

 

The NFL's statement that it was a "power issue" makes honestly no sense to me. There's no such phenomenon in electrical engineering where the stability of your power source can actually cause RF signals to cross with radio signals. And if it's a hardwiring problem... why is it that Tomlin said this "always happens" there when he's been going there for 8 years? They couldn't fix that problem in 8 years? Something's going on that isn't being explained.

 

Again: who knows what happened. Even if it was deliberate, it could've been a stadium guy going rogue and doing it because he was mad about Deflategate (to me that's the Occam's Razor answer here). I do doubt that the Pats higher ups would be so blatantly stupid/arrogant as to cheat in such an obvious way on the NFL season opener in front of the world, in their first game since Deflategate.

Edited September 11, 2015 by TheSim

[Minionhunter]

huntrgathrr and rcmcjacket - I think you both have good points [though huntrgathrr, you forgot to add that the honorable Judge Berman turned up a few days after the verdict at a Billionaire party in the hamptons to have a conversation with Kraft (and Mara and a few senators and representatives) for a "few minutes" per Kraft]. i don't necessicarily think that your viewpoints are mutually exclusive.

 

I think Goodell, Brady, and Bellichick are well established liars, so I don't have to believe any of them. In that case I follow the money, and the profit/money says to me that everyone is protecting the NFL and minimizing the damage, and that is for the Patriots to pay a total fine of $250K and a 4th round pick MORE than the total punishments from Spygate + metaphorical punishment for Bellichick and NE looses its quality secondary, and things are ended there, all the rest is for show/WWE plot lines.

 

PS: last night was due to the Steelers just unraveling under Tomlin because they were solved by John and the Ravens, starting with them firing Ariens, (look how he is doing) now firing LeBeau (lets see if he turns the Titans around). Last night just showed that the Steelers were inept. I'm sure the communications issues were real, and they only had a 1% effect, but it was what was needed to destroy the Steelers coaching (Tomlin = Barry Switzer, new D-coordinator/young D, Hailey = AM agner radio show host). It was a comedy show, first drive they were marching and they decided to have one of the best recievers in the game [ask Steve Smith Sr. before you get mad at me] throw a pass? And he has all day then takes a sack? Keystone cops. At least Dupree leveled Brady once, but even then he didn't decleat him like a Raven would have.

[Flamengo1265]

The NFL provides the headsets....and the Patriots broadcast the game on the exact same frequency that the visiting team was using. Umhum, nothing to see here.

[January J]

JanuaryJ.... I dislike the Cheatriots as much as anyone but they have nothing to do with the headsets. Those are provided by the NFL, kept and maintained by the NFL. The only thing the patriots had to do with this is that they allowed the NFL to plug it in at thier stadium. I am all for calling things what they are but to suggest that billicheck somehow got the NFL to cheat for him is simply ridiculous and sounds out of touch with reality. Does MIke Tomlin think that they have an electrician in the stadium manipulating the voltage to just to the steelers headset. I think that the Patriots have done everything they can to push the envelope in looking for an advantage but at some point the conversation just gets silly. The NFL Monitors the communication even...and can (and have) confirmed that this was an issue for both teams. Bill Cowher and Herm Edwards said that communication issues are not uncommon in bad weather...and that all teams have alternate ways to communicate in the event that something happens. Cowher stated that it is a preparation issue (if it was an issue). This is a lot of crying about nothing for the sqeelers. The real issue is the can not stop Brady and cannot stop Gronk! those are the bottom lines.

the nfl provides the headsets and communication systems- the HOME TEAM has to install them and has complete control over doing so. I can read between the lines. If they wanted to interfere with the steelers headsets it would have been easy for them to do so. Even if it would have interfered with theirs as well ( which I'm sure they could get around) they are prepared for it, and it's funny that the headsets only kept going out when the STEELERS were on offense and when the nfl rep would come to fix them or shut them off they mysteriously started working again. Then he leaves and they go out again. C'mon now dude. I'm not one of those conspiracy theorist but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Yes it Could have been some fan or attendant gone rogue, but it smells, and it's just another one of those peices of circumstantial evidence to add to the crap pile of others. Edited September 11, 2015 by January J

[RRRRRavens]

"The Picks Are In: Plenty Doubt Ravens Can Beat Broncos"

 

Great!!! That's when we do our best.

Edited September 11, 2015 by RRRRRavens

[RRRRRavens]

Except you?

This was an excellent post with some [unintended?] humor at the end.

Maybe he's an astronaut?????

[rmcjacket23]

the nfl provides the headsets and communication systems- the HOME TEAM has to install them and has complete control over doing so. I can read between the lines. If they wanted to interfere with the steelers headsets it would have been easy for them to do so. Even if it would have interfered with theirs as well ( which I'm sure they could get around) they are prepared for it, and it's funny that the headsets only kept going out when the STEELERS were on offense and when the nfl rep would come to fix them or shut them off they mysteriously started working again. Then he leaves and they go out again. C'mon now dude. I'm not one of those conspiracy theorist but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Yes it Could have been some fan or attendant gone rogue, but it smells, and it's just another one of those peices of circumstantial evidence to add to the crap pile of others.

I'd caution on rushing to judgment based on the things you are talking about. They aren't substantiated by anybody that doesn't work for the Steelers, and the source of the information you are providing as fact came ONLY from the Steelers website at this point.

 

Over time, I'm sure we will get at least some more information (though probably not nearly all of it) regarding this. But its also entirely possible that the whole "they didn't work when the guy walked away" thing might not have actually happened anyway. Not exactly a stretch to think a team webpage might publish something that isn't accurate...

[RavensFootballFan]

I pay no mind to experts. The Broncos beat the Ravens 34 - 17 4 weeks before the Miracle Mile High. The Broncos were favorite by 10 points in playoff game over the Ravens and it took two overtimes for Ravens to beat those odds. Hoping we do it again. 2 days baby! Go Ravens!

[Grapple Raven]

Read it for yourself:

 

http://espn.go.com/n...d-patriots-game

 

 

 

However Tomlin is laying the ground work here by filing a written complaint with the NFL. Since Tomlin also has a seat on the NFL's Competition Committee I imagine this will carry some weight.   I am starting to get the feeling here that there will be a lot more of these formal complaints against the Patriots to establish a pattern of behavior on their end.  Smart move!  Its about time...lets just hope others follow suit with the example that Tomlin set here.  That way if other teams follow Tomlin's example it will add even more credence and will provide official documentation to the case of the "Patriot Way" of skirting the rules and cheating. 

 

 

I found Mike Pereira's explanation of the rule concerning headset communications very interesting:

 

http://www.msn.com/e...M4?ocid=U142DHP

 

The coach to QB system ruling where no rules of equity apply appears to me to have the Patriots handy work all over it, lol. How nice that Brady's helmet isn't affected so he can get the all the calls from Ernie Adams though his QB helmet from the press box, lol.  Since Adams isn't considered a coach, he wouldn't be affected by the equity ruling that applies to the coach-to-coach system.  How nice for the Patriots, isn't it???  Rules in NE must be in fine shape...they are surely exercised and stretched enough, lol.

[Grapple Raven]

the nfl provides the headsets and communication systems- the HOME TEAM has to install them and has complete control over doing so. I can read between the lines. If they wanted to interfere with the steelers headsets it would have been easy for them to do so. Even if it would have interfered with theirs as well ( which I'm sure they could get around) they are prepared for it, and it's funny that the headsets only kept going out when the STEELERS were on offense and when the nfl rep would come to fix them or shut them off they mysteriously started working again. Then he leaves and they go out again. C'mon now dude. I'm not one of those conspiracy theorist but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Yes it Could have been some fan or attendant gone rogue, but it smells, and it's just another one of those peices of circumstantial evidence to add to the crap pile of others.

 

I believe you are correct in your assumption.  As stated from the article I posted above: 

 

"A source with knowledge of the NFL's reaction said Friday morning that when the league determined Pittsburgh's communications were down, it was in the process of shutting down the Patriots' headsets when the problem was resolved. The problem resurfaced briefly, but was then resolved and did not recur."   

 

This NFL source seems to backup the report of what occurred that was stated on the Steeler's website "...whenever an NFL representative was on the Patriots' sideline, the Steelers' headsets cleared, but when the representative walked way, the game broadcast returned."

 

Furthermore you point is also fortified by the NFL's own words:  "The NFL released a statement Friday morning explaining that coaches' communications equipment, including the headsets, is provided by the NFL for both teams' use on game day, but that the home team "is responsible for the installation and maintenance of that equipment."

 

Source:  pittsburgh-steelers-reportedly-file-complaint-nfl-headset-failure-new-england-patriots-game

[January J]

Doesn't suprise me one bit. If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a freakin duck. Stop overthinking stuff. There is a point when you have to draw the line and realize that there has been far too many "coincidences".