Next up: Denver Broncos

[redrum52]

Bold prediction here, To win this game we'll have to score more points than the Broncos.

Booom!!

[Ravens4Real]

I just think it's amusing that just because Kubiak is now the coach, everyone here thinks their team will be a run heavy offense. Yeah they may run the ball a few more times.

They have Manning, D. Thomas, E. Sanders and a host of capable younger WR's. They are still going to run the up tempo O and throw the ball around. Which scares the crap out of me because we all seen how our 1st D looked against the Eagles.

[Ravens4Real]

Another thing, Manning went 22-35 in the preseason. That was without Sanders, Manning love to throw to his slot receivers. Those aren't TERRIBLE numbers. You guys are throwing out that Manning is uncomfortable in the offense and saying how he has gotten sacked so many times. I wouldn't label getting sacked as Manning being uncomfortable as much as I would it being a young inexperienced line.

[BmoreBird22]

Overreacting the Broncos in terms of what? A single football game or the whole season? Those are two different arguments right now...

 

As it were, in my opinion, Denver is probably the most balanced and well-rounded team on paper in the entire AFC. Paper doesn't mean much starting Sunday, but I don't see any team in the AFC that has the quality of offense and defense they have on the same team.

 

I think they're in a much better position this season than they were last season, and in a wide open conference with a lot of teams with major question marks (ours included), that's pretty important.

I would vehemently disagree that they're the most balanced football team in the AFC right now. Manning is going to be playing in an entirely new offense after finding major success in Gase's, they have a terrible offensive line, a suspect defensive line, and a group of inside linebackers that might as well not be there. They have more issues than most people realize, apparently. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[BmoreBird22]

Another thing, Manning went 22-35 in the preseason. That was without Sanders, Manning love to throw to his slot receivers. Those aren't TERRIBLE numbers. You guys are throwing out that Manning is uncomfortable in the offense and saying how he has gotten sacked so many times. I wouldn't label getting sacked as Manning being uncomfortable as much as I would it being a young inexperienced line.

I wouldn't chalk it up to discomfort, but I would chalk it up to a not so great fit. Under Gase and Fox, Manning was probably in the shotgun with a three receiver set 95% of the time. The only time they probably weren't was on the goal line. That's a huge change when he's being asked to go under center and take those three, five, seven second drops. That ball won't be likely coming out in two seconds or less to nullify the blitz. Those drop backs take time and with him being under center, dropping back, with such a bad offensive line, blitzes up the middle are going to be more lethal than in year's past.

[Purple_City39]

In the postseason? Yes. In the regular season? No.

 

But remember... September Joe and January Joe are still very, very, very different players. There are not very many examples previously where Joe performs very well against great defenses in the regular season.

 

I don't base anything on the preseason at all. I base it on the fact that there's one single receiver on our team that has at least shown at some point that he can play well against a high quality secondary. I can't say that for any other receiver or TE on this team, hence why I think points become a problem.

 

I've seen what Denver's offense can do with a good Oline and with a bad Oline, and the latter has still consistently put up 25 PPG, regardless of the defense they are playing. I certainly don't buy the media hype of Peyton all of the sudden becoming something he's never been, which is a bad regular season QB, simply because he wasn't very good in December/January last season (not coincidentally right around injury time). I think he will look just as good as we saw him look the last 2-3 years when he didn't struggle much with our defense, and I'm not nearly as concerned as everyone else with their offensive line. Offensive lines can be a problem in the long run, but there's a lot of really good QBs (which Peyton certainly is) with pretty bad Olines that somehow find ways to make deep runs in the playoffs every year, and I don't think Denver is much different than those teams.

 

I think we are better up front than them on both sides of the ball, and I think they are better on the back end and very much better on offense, hence why I picked them to win.

Well, if you're going to use the argument of September Joe vs January Joe (therefore using past history) then also look into week 1 Joe.  Joe has been pretty good in season openers since his rookie season (minus the Jets 2010 game).  Since 09, he's 11 TDs to 5 INTs which of course includes the 0 TD/1 INT Jets game mentioned.  If we're going to focus on Peyton's past and Joe's past let's properly do so.

 

Also, mentioning how Peyton played doesn't take age into consideration.  Doesn't take into consideration that he's never had a problem feeling his fingers.  Doesn't take into consideration that past OCs let me have more control that Kubiak seems to be letting him have this year.

 

I'm not losing sleep over our WRs just yet.  I doubt anybody thought Wagner would be rated the best RT last season right?  I'm sure nobody expected Forsett to be as good as he was.  And I'm sure many will be surprised that the offense doesn't crash and burn due to the #2 WR spot

 

I agree that we're better in the trenches on both sides of the ball.  You give the Ravens just a healthy Jimmy Smith, which all reports say we have, and that negates one of their two WRs right there.  I'm confident in the secondary minimizing Sanders as much as possible.  Don't get me wrong, if we lose I won't be necessarily surprised (unless we're dominated like 2013), but if/when we win, I won't be surprised there either.  Denver is being very overrated right now

[Ravensfan23]

I just think it's amusing that just because Kubiak is now the coach, everyone here thinks their team will be a run heavy offense. Yeah they may run the ball a few more times.

They have Manning, D. Thomas, E. Sanders and a host of capable younger WR's. They are still going to run the up tempo O and throw the ball around. Which scares the crap out of me because we all seen how our 1st D looked against the Eagles.

I agree but i think that's where the weakness lies. Kubes is who he is and he's been that way for 20+ years. He's not that uptempo run the offense from the LOS guy. He likes to have control and a feel for the game with his play calling. Will he be able to take a backseat to Peyton or will Peyton have to conform to Kubes way of doing things. I think there is a huge potential for them not to be on the same page and Pees could exploit it.

Remember Peyton has run the same offense basically his entire career despite coaching change. Kubes has run his system his way and has a host of coaches who help him teach it that way. I didn't really sense this last year but in Houston one of the knocks on Kubes was that he was a control freak when it comes to "his offense. Harbs allowed him to run things his way. If his way and Peyton's way doesn't mesh early how does that team respond?

I would imagine both would able to put their egos aside fot the greater good of that team but we'll see. Peyton ran a similar style offense early in his career and despite not being the fastest or best athlete he had great feet in the potect to run those stretch zones and quickly get around on the PA before backside pressure came. I'm not sure he's quick enough to do this alot. So he'll need to operate out of shotgun which Kubes doesn't like to do as much. It'll be interesting to watch and if the Ravens can dominate that oline it might get ugly in the Ravens favor.

[rmcjacket23]

I would vehemently disagree that they're the most balanced football team in the AFC right now. Manning is going to be playing in an entirely new offense after finding major success in Gase's, they have a terrible offensive line, a suspect defensive line, and a group of inside linebackers that might as well not be there. They have more issues than most people realize, apparently. 

1. I don't really care about the new offense aspect. When Peyton Manning is the QB, he runs a Peyton Manning offense. He's not running a Gary Kubiak offense. Kubiak is going to install some of his principles (mostly in the run game) into the offense, yielding to the strengths of the personnel around him. Don't even remotely buy this notion that this offense is some sort of overly difficult concept that Manning will struggle to produce early on in. Top tier QBs practically never have that problem in their career, and I don't see that changing here.

 

2. Bad offensive line? Yes. But then again, so do/did the Colts, and frankly so did the Broncos last season. This isn't an OL that's decimated by injuries either that just gets thrust in there... they've known this for months. Long-term it could be a problem, but getting the ball out quick (which I expect to happen) can really make a bad pass blocking Oline look a lot better than they are.

 

3. I don't care about inside linebackers generally speaking. I couldn't name any of them the last couple seasons either, and they did just fine against the run. I don't suspect that's going to change too much.

[52N19]

I don't know why everyone thinks we will lose. manning will be under center instead of shotgun with a depleted offensive line and 39 year old legs. the broncos tight end is in Jacksonville, Emmanuel sanders may not pay and their starting safety is suspended for the game.

 

I don't know how good their RB is but we know they will be running and we will overload the box. manning can't throw long so we should be playing tight coverage and hit the receivers off the line.

 

the Ravens have the chance to start the "decline of Manning" conversations.

 

Ravens 24

coors light 14

[Ravensfan23]

Another thing, Manning went 22-35 in the preseason. That was without Sanders, Manning love to throw to his slot receivers. Those aren't TERRIBLE numbers. You guys are throwing out that Manning is uncomfortable in the offense and saying how he has gotten sacked so many times. I wouldn't label getting sacked as Manning being uncomfortable as much as I would it being a young inexperienced line.

Did you actually watch the games or just look at the stats? I asked because the numbers don't really tell the story imo. Yea the numbers aren't terrible butt hose numbers don't show now Petyon had little to no zip on his passes 12-15 yards down field. Now down field passes has never been Peyton's game really but the 12-15 yard intermediate area is wherw he makes his money. Also those numbers don't show how sluggish Peyton looked getting from under center. You mentioned the young oline and that's the key to me. Peyton will still make his play and the secondary will be tested underneath. But if the Ravens can force this team into long yardage situations it could get ugly for Denver.

The offense didn't show much in terms of production in the preseason but i like what i saw from Trrstman. I think the Ravens are gonna put a ton of pressure on their LBs and Safeties forcing them to play outside of their strengths. Not really ready to give a predicted score yet, but i will say i really love the matchup for the Ravens and i'm happy it's the first game of the West Coast trip and not the 2nd.

[K-Dog]

Special teams will be the difference.

[rmcjacket23]

Well, if you're going to use the argument of September Joe vs January Joe (therefore using past history) then also look into week 1 Joe.  Joe has been pretty good in season openers since his rookie season (minus the Jets 2010 game).  Since 09, he's 11 TDs to 5 INTs which of course includes the 0 TD/1 INT Jets game mentioned.  If we're going to focus on Peyton's past and Joe's past let's properly do so.

 

Also, mentioning how Peyton played doesn't take age into consideration.  Doesn't take into consideration that he's never had a problem feeling his fingers.  Doesn't take into consideration that past OCs let me have more control that Kubiak seems to be letting him have this year.

 

I'm not losing sleep over our WRs just yet.  I doubt anybody thought Wagner would be rated the best RT last season right?  I'm sure nobody expected Forsett to be as good as he was.  And I'm sure many will be surprised that the offense doesn't crash and burn due to the #2 WR spot

 

I agree that we're better in the trenches on both sides of the ball.  You give the Ravens just a healthy Jimmy Smith, which all reports say we have, and that negates one of their two WRs right there.  I'm confident in the secondary minimizing Sanders as much as possible.  Don't get me wrong, if we lose I won't be necessarily surprised (unless we're dominated like 2013), but if/when we win, I won't be surprised there either.  Denver is being very overrated right now

1. Cool, but I can take the exact same stats and spin them to make my argument too (just like I did earlier). Why pick from 2009 and throw a game out? How about in the last two seasons, where he's 3 TDs and 3 INTs, and he's throwing 60+ passes a game in an offense that doesn't work when he does that? I can take numbers and make them say whatever I want them to say.

 

2. Peyton hasn't felt his fingers in years... this isn't some new revelation from 2015. He's largely owned the regular season since not being able to feel his fingers, so I'm not really that concerned about that. I'd agree age is a factor... IF... this wasn't September. Age tends to wear down players over a season... it doesn't tend to wear down players who have spent the entire offseason getting healthy. That's a great December argument, not really a great September argument.

 

3. I don't think Kubiak has nearly the effect on the offense (outside of the running game) that people think it will. He's not stupid... he realizes what he has and that the offense is at its best when Manning is dictating things.

[rmcjacket23]

I just think it's amusing that just because Kubiak is now the coach, everyone here thinks their team will be a run heavy offense. Yeah they may run the ball a few more times.

They have Manning, D. Thomas, E. Sanders and a host of capable younger WR's. They are still going to run the up tempo O and throw the ball around. Which scares the crap out of me because we all seen how our 1st D looked against the Eagles.

Well, frankly, they're sort of built better to run the ball. They kind of showed that the second half of last season. Quality RBs, solid depth at RB, and OLineman who aren't great pass protectors but can excel at run blocking.

 

Plus, helps keep Manning from possibly being worn down in December, and pretty much guarantees he gets hit less.

[Ravens4Real]

Did you actually watch the games or just look at the stats? I asked because the numbers don't really tell the story imo. Yea the numbers aren't terrible butt hose numbers don't show now Petyon had little to no zip on his passes 12-15 yards down field. Now down field passes has never been Peyton's game really but the 12-15 yard intermediate area is wherw he makes his money. Also those numbers don't show how sluggish Peyton looked getting from under center. You mentioned the young oline and that's the key to me. Peyton will still make his play and the secondary will be tested underneath. But if the Ravens can force this team into long yardage situations it could get ugly for Denver.

The offense didn't show much in terms of production in the preseason but i like what i saw from Trrstman. I think the Ravens are gonna put a ton of pressure on their LBs and Safeties forcing them to play outside of their strengths. Not really ready to give a predicted score yet, but i will say i really love the matchup for the Ravens and i'm happy it's the first game of the West Coast trip and not the 2nd.

I will post this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EClqvhw43iI

This is their 3rd preseason game. There seems to be nothing wrong with his passes and the velocity on them. Also, they are in the gun just as much as under center. I don't know where some of you come up with the stuff that you say on here. He seems to have no problem under center and dropping back.

[BmoreBird22]

I will post this here...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EClqvhw43iI

This is their 3rd preseason game. There seems to be nothing wrong with his passes and the velocity on them. Also, they are in the gun just as much as under center. I don't know where some of you come up with the stuff that you say on here. He seems to have no problem under center and dropping back.

Wait, you literally picked out a Peyton Manning highlight reel and expect that to make your point valid?

I saw two deep throws in that game and both wobbled like that ball had Parkinson's. That had no zip. They were high and shaky. That's not good.

Know one thing your stats and highlight videos didn't show? A touchdown. Manning literally led ZERO touchdown drives in the preseason, which may not be a huge deal since it is preseason, but he has led at least two as a Bronco in the past seasons preseasons. Don't expect much of the same this year

[Ravens4Real]

Wait, you literally picked out a Peyton Manning highlight reel and expect that to make your point valid?

I saw two deep throws in that game and both wobbled like that ball had Parkinson's. That had no zip. They were high and shaky. That's not good.

Know one thing your stats and highlight videos didn't show? A touchdown. Manning literally led ZERO touchdown drives in the preseason, which may not be a huge deal since it is preseason, but he has led at least two as a Bronco in the past seasons preseasons. Don't expect much of the same this year

So his highlights wouldn't show how he's throwing the football? I will take it, from you, that since his other passes that didn't make the highlight fluttered in the air like a duckling. I posted the video because all of the passes looked crisp to me. Someone stated he can't throw with velocity past 10 yards and he doesn't have feeling in his right hand fingers.

Regarding Manning not leading a touchdown, I'll chalk that up to not having all of his guys and a new offense. Since, by your assessment of the above issue, that means that Manning won't score a TD all season, I'll just let the issue pass.

[52520Andrew]

Kubiak is there now, so I think the key to getting to Peyton will be to stop the run first. This is where the Ravens had some trouble during preseason so The DL should expect to be thoroughly tested early. The defense will need to get Peyton into a third and long situation because he is a master of short yardage throws.

 

The Ravens will likely be expected to try the same; establish the run and keep Denver's Von Miller in check.

 

Honestly I am not as worried about defending the run, I trust Sizzle and Upshaw to hold the edge(unlike pretty much any other backup we have) and we know how to defend Kubiak's zone blocking scheme because we practiced against it all of last year. I don't know if Denver's O-line is good enough to establish the run on our front 7, they have 2 guards but Center and both OT spots are question marks for them. Kubiak is a great coach for the O-line but he has his work cut out for him with that group.

[BmoreBird22]

So his highlights wouldn't show how he's throwing the football? I will take it, from you, that since his other passes that didn't make the highlight fluttered in the air like a duckling. I posted the video because all of the passes looked crisp to me. Someone stated he can't throw with velocity past 10 yards and he doesn't have feeling in his right hand fingers.

Regarding Manning not leading a touchdown, I'll chalk that up to not having all of his guys and a new offense. Since, by your assessment of the above issue, that means that Manning won't score a TD all season, I'll just let the issue pass.

Look at the only two passes that traveled past the first down marker in that video and they flutter and shake so hard. If you can't see it, well, I font know what to say other than expand the video and put it into HD, but I could see it on my phone. His short passes looked fine, but that's about it.

Did I say that? No. Don't try to put words in my mouth because you can't read between the lines or watch the games. It shows a large amount of discomfort and unfamiliarity in that offense and shows that the offense isn't as well tuned and firing like many are expecting. I sure do expect Manning to score touchdowns and break the passing yardage record, but people were expecting it done by like week 6 and expecting 40+ touchdowns and that doesn't appear realistic.

[Ravens4Real]

Look at the only two passes that traveled past the first down marker in that video and they flutter and shake so hard. If you can't see it, well, I font know what to say other than expand the video and put it into HD, but I could see it on my phone. His short passes looked fine, but that's about it.

Did I say that? No. Don't try to put words in my mouth because you can't read between the lines or watch the games. It shows a large amount of discomfort and unfamiliarity in that offense and shows that the offense isn't as well tuned and firing like many are expecting. I sure do expect Manning to score touchdowns and break the passing yardage record, but people were expecting it done by like week 6 and expecting 40+ touchdowns and that doesn't appear realistic.

I'll listen to the people who actually seem to know what they are talking about and wait and see what happens week 1.

[BmoreBird22]

I'll listen to the people who actually seem to know what they are talking about and wait and see what happens week 1.

and who would that be?

[codizzle]

Not sure how to feel yet.. So many questions lingering from preseason and training camp

A healthy camp,KO and Timmy and we can win easily

All in all I think it comes down to turnovers.. Start out well and don't turn the ball over and we can win somewhat comfortably

[757RavensFan]

Didn't know Denver was 8-0 at home last season. 

[JoeyFlex5]

its possible i may be reading too much into our loss to the texans last year, but i feel like i recall kubiaks offense being extremely predictable when it is used against his former teams, we struggled to stop kubiaks offense when he was in houston, and then when we faced them with kubiak as our OC they knew every single tendency and they easily sniffed out our whole playbook, maybe we can do the same? but at the same time, peyton manning is a different monster than any qb kubiak has had, so idunno.. 

 

i guess im just reaching for some confidence, because i honestly dont feel good about our chances. we will need speed to beat their secondary, their CBs are just too good. our OTs need to be on their 110% a-game to stop the pass rush. our line will need to effectively move east and west with their OL while keeping lanes for our LB corps, upshaw and sizzle will need to seriously hold down the edge, and mosley and buck will need to be on their a-games as well, they need to be able to time the penetration right and make sure they can get a few TFL, otherwise CJ anderson and kubiaks run game could eat us up. 

 

i feel good about the season, but i dont feel good about this game, i have a bad feeling we lose by double digits, get a wake up call, and go out and tear up the league and go on a 6+ game winning streak afterwards

[Purple_City39]

1. Cool, but I can take the exact same stats and spin them to make my argument too (just like I did earlier). Why pick from 2009 and throw a game out? How about in the last two seasons, where he's 3 TDs and 3 INTs, and he's throwing 60+ passes a game in an offense that doesn't work when he does that? I can take numbers and make them say whatever I want them to say.

 

2. Peyton hasn't felt his fingers in years... this isn't some new revelation from 2015. He's largely owned the regular season since not being able to feel his fingers, so I'm not really that concerned about that. I'd agree age is a factor... IF... this wasn't September. Age tends to wear down players over a season... it doesn't tend to wear down players who have spent the entire offseason getting healthy. That's a great December argument, not really a great September argument.

 

3. I don't think Kubiak has nearly the effect on the offense (outside of the running game) that people think it will. He's not stupid... he realizes what he has and that the offense is at its best when Manning is dictating things.

1. I excluded his rookie season only because anybody that expected a small school QB to play well in his first ever NFL game was setting themselves up for disappointment.  I put all games week 1 games from 2009 to the present together and gave a stat.  11 - 5 is all 2009 to present season openers, I don't need to pick and choose to make my numbers more convincing, as you've now admitted to doing.

 

2. Because it matters as well with his age.  You think just because it's September that he will play better?  Remember 2007 McNair?  Looked good in 2006.  Looked very bad all of a sudden in that divisional round against the Colts.  Looked horrible from start to finish in 2007.  Peyton is already struggling to throw a tight pass past 10 yards, as your video shows  Peyton's arm strength is currently Alex Smith level.  Right now.

 

3. You know this huh?  Elway personally sought this man out but he won't have nearly the effect people think.  Elway poached another team's OC, and OC that's revered throughout the league.......just so he can step back and let Peyton dictate things?  Makes sense

[Ravensfan23]

I will post this here...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EClqvhw43iI

This is their 3rd preseason game. There seems to be nothing wrong with his passes and the velocity on them. Also, they are in the gun just as much as under center. I don't know where some of you come up with the stuff that you say on here. He seems to have no problem under center and dropping back.

I can't tell if you posted this to dispute what i said or support it. The highlight show Peyton throwing two passes that traveled more then 4 yards past the LOS. As mentioned above the two passes that did travel in that 12-15 yard range i mention were attempted to be driven by Manning but didn't have much zip. That 3rd and 12 throw should have hit his target in the hands and allow for YAC. Instead the ball was almost in the dirty and made the WR work harder then need be.

Again as my post stated, Peyton will make his throws on underneath routes, but he has lived in that 12-15 yard range throughout his career and will force throws when it's taken away from him. If the Ravens can shut down the run and force Manning to live in that intermediate area, i think they'll have success. Im not calling for the great demise of Peyton just pointing out a area of weakness to exploit. Show me a highlight of Peyton successfully hitting those 12-15 yard come back, outs, digs and tight window slants that he's known for and I'll agree with you.

[FoxRox75]

Between adjusting with the new offensive system/players and playing at Mile High, I think it'll be a really hard game for the Ravens to win. Not impossible, but very hard. I picked it out as one of our losses this year, and I'm sticking with that as a prediction. I don't think they'll get blown out like they did two years ago, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if they pulled this one out. Broncos 28, Ravens 23.

Edited September 8, 2015 by FoxRox75

[JoeyFlex5]

I will post this here...

This is their 3rd preseason game. There seems to be nothing wrong with his passes and the velocity on them. Also, they are in the gun just as much as under center. I don't know where some of you come up with the stuff that you say on here. He seems to have no problem under center and dropping back.

his velocity really wasnt great in that video, and even like bmorebird said, its highlights, you can expect the best of his best plays to be shown and thats it, but even in these highlights his velocity was shaky, he fluttered a screen on the second pass and if it had some zip on it then DT could have turned upfield earlier and gained alot more yardage, but instead the ball didnt reach him until the defenders had already closed in. and when he threw that slot receiver open, hes lucky he even made that catch, it was a heads up throw to have it there before he even made his break, but it almost fell short and with better velocity and distance on that ball then its almost certain to be a TD as the WR could have easily caught it in stride and turned upfield and split the db's with ease, but instead he had to come to the ball, reach down and scoop it, pretty much leaving 4 points on the field.

 

i dont think hes trying to say peyton is washed up, all hes trying to say is that peyton isnt the same player, and all the rumors swirling about his arm appear to be real, and that video, even being his best plays, doesnt do much to dispel those rumors, peyton manning is simply missing opportunities that he wouldnt have missed a few years ago and its because he cant get the ball to the receiver fast enough.

[rmcjacket23]

1. I excluded his rookie season only because anybody that expected a small school QB to play well in his first ever NFL game was setting themselves up for disappointment.  I put all games week 1 games from 2009 to the present together and gave a stat.  11 - 5 is all 2009 to present season openers, I don't need to pick and choose to make my numbers more convincing, as you've now admitted to doing.

 

2. Because it matters as well with his age.  You think just because it's September that he will play better?  Remember 2007 McNair?  Looked good in 2006.  Looked very bad all of a sudden in that divisional round against the Colts.  Looked horrible from start to finish in 2007.  Peyton is already struggling to throw a tight pass past 10 yards, as your video shows  Peyton's arm strength is currently Alex Smith level.  Right now.

 

3. You know this huh?  Elway personally sought this man out but he won't have nearly the effect people think.  Elway poached another team's OC, and OC that's revered throughout the league.......just so he can step back and let Peyton dictate things?  Makes sense

1. Well, you also backed out 2010 for some reason. And its cool if you want to take a larger sample... I just don't like to do that when basically everything about those seasons is completely different from the present one. Which one of those guys catching passes from 2011 or 2012 are going to come back and play ball with us on Sunday? If they aren't... then why do I care about what they did when they were here?

 

2. Yes, just because its September I think he will play better. Why was SSS so much better in the first half of the season than the second one? He was rested, he was healthy, and he wasn't nearly as fatigued. I apply the same principles to Peyton Manning. If we're going to play the game of trying to guess which season Manning's production dramatically falls of the cliff, then we can play that game, but most fans are about 0 for the last 3 seasons in that regard. I prefer to take a much more rational approach to it and just wait until it actually happens before I try to predict his demise. 

 

If he has Alex Smith level arm strength right now, he's probably going to throw at least 30-35 TDs and over 4000 yards this season, because that's what QBs like Manning do with Alex Smith-level arm strength at this stage in their careers. 

 

3. Yes, Elway poached an OC to... not be an OC. Is he the OC or the HC? You mean you think Elway poached a Denver guy to be a Denver guy just so he can take over the reigns for something Peyton's been doing better than him for probably a decade now?

 

You'll get a mixture of both, but you're fooling yourself if you think Kubiak is going to want to run 10 bootlegs a game and throwing deep patterns for a QB like Manning. Call me cynical, but something tells me Kubiak sees the exact same things most of us see.... limited mobility, limited arm strength, likely poor protection from the offensive line. Not exactly attributes a typical Kubiak offense likes, yet he took the job.

 

I wonder why that is...

[BmoreBird22]

I'll listen to the people who actually seem to know what they are talking about and wait and see what happens week 1.

, I would warn against parroting the OPINIONS of others and presenting them as fact without doing your own viewing of footage

[January J]

i dont see jernigan being a deciding factor in this game.

givin the state of their o-line I would say he's definitely a big factor. Maybe not a deciding factor , but it would definitely help tremendously.