Whats your WR lineup?

[Purple_City39]

Aiken disappeared in the postseason ? If I recall he had a pretty big td catch against New England . He may not have done a whole lot but that was when he was buried behind several guys anyway and hadn't fully gotten the chance to prove himself. I definitely wouldn't say he dissapeared... And he caught everything that came his way.

I happen to think he earned and deserves the #2 position, but anyway we will just have to see starting Sunday.

So 1 catch in the entire game means he didn't disappear?  That's pretty low standards.  He didn't even catch everything thrown his way in that specific game.  And why was he buried late in the season if everyone thinks Marlon was worse?

 

I'll say this, I bet at the end of the season, Brown outplays Aiken pending neither end up severely injured.  He'll log more snaps and targets (and thus catches) again

[52520Andrew]

He was injured in week 1 and 2 of the preseason and Aiken was placed as #2 because of it.  Week 3 they split time.  It could just be there are letting Marlon get reps and easing him back in.  Just like they will do with Perriman, he won't just be thrown into the #2 role his first week back but he'll get it after a few weeks (same with HIll last season.  Didn't start his first game back when it was obvious he would sooner than later).

 

But at the same time Hill was just joining the Ravens that previous offseason, it isn't like he knew the system like Marlon Brown.

[gabefergy]

And yet Aiken is worse.  Marlon while injured, still logged more snaps than Kamar, still got more targets late in the season, and did more in the post season.  It's obvious the coaches, who see more than us, thing he's better and Joe found him more reliable when it mattered most. 

How is Aiken worse? He was better than Marlon in every facet last season. It's obvious that you are 100% wrong.

 

Aiken had more yards, more TDs, more YPC, more YPRR...Marlon was worse in every single area.

Edited September 8, 2015 by gabefergy

[gabefergy]

The biggest difference between Marlon and Aiken is that Aiken is capable of playing on the outside while Marlon is viewed strictly as a slot receiver. With the emergence of Campanaro, Marlon's role could be going to the wayside.

[gabefergy]

Jamarcus Russell had an amazing pedigree, also. If you can't stay on the field or haven't even played a down, I don't want to hear about what they could POSSIBLY do or continue to do. If they aren't on the field doing it, then no one here can say that the WR core is good.

And look at the stars from last year, teams started the season believing that Torrey would be the number 1 WR. Smith rarely had to deal with teams 1st CB. When teams realized that Smith only ran deep routes, they switched it up. The second half of the season shows that when Smith has to go up against teams number 1's, he can be held in check. Although he did have a nice game against Revis in the playoffs. He isn't a 1 WR anymore. He needs help.

Smith almost always drew the #1 CB last season, that's what allowed Torrey to be such a good weapon in the RZ and in making big plays. 

 

You're right that players have to be healthy, but the potential to have a very good WR corps is there. 

[HoldingCall]

Sure he was the #2 by default in 2013 and no one besides SSS and Torrey were getting there but if he were good enough to be the #2, he would be right now is my point. He still was around both years, if the coaching staff were confident in his body of work over that time, he would be the #2 right now. We don't have Torrey and SSS is another year older and yet he has ended up losing snaps to guys below him. Not a good sign.

Not defending Brown's ability he must do that for himself, but (excuses) lets not forget he was hurt and no one knows when that began for sure. The injury could have had something to do with his soft showing during camp and into the preseason. This year will tell us much about the level of development and chemistry between Brown and Joe.

 

It applies to all WRs that because they are not targeted doesn't mean they are not getting open. Joe must make a choice when more than one receiver is open. It's up to those WRs (other than named SSS) to build confidence with Joe, in their ability and on field chemistry. I'll be surprised if a new face doesn't emerge and share favorite target status with SSS this season (his last); it could be a TE rather than a WR but one should emerge.

[Ravensfan23]

The biggest difference between Marlon and Aiken is that Aiken is capable of playing on the outside while Marlon is viewed strictly as a slot receiver. With the emergence of Campanaro, Marlon's role could be going to the wayside.

I don't wanna get into the who's better or who will be #2 because the season is finally here and bith of these guys have a lot to prove.

However i do disagree here. Aiken struggled a lot last season on the outside and the same has been true this year. He's much better inside. This is and has been one od thw biggest questions i jave for Aiken. Can he get better at winning outside, he didn't do a good job of answering that in the preseason. I hope he does starting Sunday.

[gabefergy]

I don't wanna get into the who's better or who will be #2 because the season is finally here and bith of these guys have a lot to prove.

However i do disagree here. Aiken struggled a lot last season on the outside and the same has been true this year. He's much better inside. This is and has been one od thw biggest questions i jave for Aiken. Can he get better at winning outside, he didn't do a good job of answering that in the preseason. I hope he does starting Sunday.

The numbers indicate just the opposite.The Ravens used Aiken primarily on the outside (29.2% slot) compared to Brown (70.5% slot).

 

Aiken ran 144 routes last season, 102 outside, 42 in the slot. He average 2.22 yards per route run outside, while averaging only 1.21 out of the slot. So not only was he lined up far more frequently on the outside, but he was also far more effective when lined up outside. 

[Mad Puppy]

In order of playing time possible:

 

SSS, Aiken, M. Brown, Perriman, *(Trade/FA pickup)*, Waller

* the traded player must be able to fill returner duties as well.

Wes Welker, but not a returner, could easily replace Campanaro

Not much out there for trade or FA unfortunately

 

 

Cut/Trade:

Campanaro - This guy is made of glass and a walking injury report, This team needs guys that will be active, Likely trade bait

Butler - The IR designation his first year hurt him, Not likely to be more than he is - CUT

Nelson -only chance was a kick returner, he failed - CUT

D. Brown - Hoping he makes it to practice squad

 

 

You really want the guy that has probably had 10 concussions and is 34 years old?

 

LOL! good point....And No I don't, I was being dramatic to make a point that I think the Made-of-glass Campanaro cannot be counted on.

[Ravensfan23]

The numbers indicate just the opposite.The Ravens used Aiken primarily on the outside (29.2% slot) compared to Brown (70.5% slot).

 

Aiken ran 144 routes last season, 102 outside, 42 in the slot. He average 2.22 yards per route run outside, while averaging only 1.21 out of the slot. So not only was he lined up far more frequently on the outside, but he was also far more effective when lined up outside.

Honestly those numbers don't say much. I think Brown does well from the slot and him being used along side of Smith amd Torrey would sugguest he spent a ton of time in the slot. Aiken ran 102 routes outside because he was the backup(#4WR) so he spelled Torrey and Steve often while Brown was still on the field as a slot. So yes he saw a ton of time outside, but how often was he targeted outside? How often did he beat press man or man and how often did he win against zone? How often did he run scheme based routes like the Playoff TD. Aiken scored a total of 4 TDs last year and only one came lined up outside. It came against the Dolphins on a playaction while they played zone in the redzone. The DB give him the inside release expecting help but the Safety and LB was caught up in the run fake.

Even in the preseason there were a couple times Flacco or Schuab wanted to go to his side but he didn't win outside. He had the one sideline catch on 3rd down when he ran the DB off and made himself available for Schuab but i personally need to see more before im ready to say he's reliable outside.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't know why people are bagging on Aiken right now. It's very obvious that many players typically play it safe during the preseason and tend to not push themselves too hard which is why Preseason is no indication of a player/teams performance. The Giants went 4-0 last preseason including a HOF game win making them 5-0, but we all know how their season turned out. Now look at the Dallas Cowboys, 0-4 last Preseason, and they nearly made it to the NFC Title Game months later. 

 

Just put the preseason notion down, if it's any of reason to be alarmed, it's because of the 2nd and 3rd team's performance, health of the O/D-Line and BP injury status, that's it IMO. Right now, the only way to judge this team is through the regular season. I don't even know if we got all our OL on the field for one Preseason game much less our entire defense. 

 

Back to Aiken, here's the truth, he outplayed every other WR on the team outside of SSS. That's the truth plain and simple, even when Perriman was healthy he outperformed him in OTAs and Camp(Credit to Injury). IMO I think Aiken's role was to be the #3 WR and once SSS hanged them up, he would start alongside Perriman for the next season. Well, that could change if Aiken preforms at a level expected out of a #2 WR as he would easily lock up the starting spot for the rest of the season. Let's not forget that Aiken also heavily challenged Jimmy Smith in Camp. Let's give him a chance and see what he can do in a full 60 Minute game. I'm surely eager to see it. You probably think "Oh the Ravens do this every year, brag about a player then they turn out to preform poorly"....well have any of those players started? No. If Aiken was so average, then he wouldn't be our starting WR. 

[Guest]

Hakeem Nicks is done. Unfortunately the injuries robbed him of his burst.

 

Right now, Flacco clearly favors Steve Smith. He can trust him and the rest will sort out. We will have a corps of receivers and they will separate upon key production.  There will be some growing pains until about week 8 and the second half of the season will be better than the first.

 

Fortunately, we have some good tight ends too.

[gabefergy]

Honestly those numbers don't say much. I think Brown does well from the slot and him being used along side of Smith amd Torrey would sugguest he spent a ton of time in the slot. Aiken ran 102 routes outside because he was the backup(#4WR) so he spelled Torrey and Steve often while Brown was still on the field as a slot. So yes he saw a ton of time outside, but how often was he targeted outside? How often did he beat press man or man and how often did he win against zone? How often did he run scheme based routes like the Playoff TD. Aiken scored a total of 4 TDs last year and only one came lined up outside. It came against the Dolphins on a playaction while they played zone in the redzone. The DB give him the inside release expecting help but the Safety and LB was caught up in the run fake.

Even in the preseason there were a couple times Flacco or Schuab wanted to go to his side but he didn't win outside. He had the one sideline catch on 3rd down when he ran the DB off and made himself available for Schuab but i personally need to see more before im ready to say he's reliable outside.

How do those numbers not say much. They say 2 very important things. 1) Aiken played predominantly outside 2) Aiken was far more effective outside. You can try to explain away the facts all you like, but the story is clear.

[Ravensfan23]

How do those numbers not say much. They say 2 very important things. 1) Aiken played predominantly outside 2) Aiken was far more effective outside. You can try to explain away the facts all you like, but the story is clear.

Dude he caught 24 passes. 24!!! Nothing is clear about how efficient and effect anyone can be from catching basically 1 pass per game and 2 on a handful others. Im not explaining away anthing. Aiken still has to prove he can consistently win outside to be an effective #2 WR in the NFL. He has yet to prove that on a consistent basis and his 100+ snaps and 2 yards per route with 24 total catches is enough for you to believe he can consistently win outside then great. I'll take the wait and see a larger sample size approach.

[gabefergy]

Dude he caught 24 passes. 24!!! Nothing is clear about how efficient and effect anyone can be from catching basically 1 pass per game and 2 on a handful others. Im not explaining away anthing. Aiken still has to prove he can consistently win outside to be an effective #2 WR in the NFL. He has yet to prove that on a consistent basis and his 100+ snaps and 2 yards per route with 24 total catches is enough for you to believe he can consistently win outside then great. I'll take the wait and see a larger sample size approach.

I never said anything about him being an effective #2. My point is he is next up in the WR depth chart because he has shown the ability to play outside, and even though it is small sample size he has done well. 

 

In an ideal world, he isn't a #2 WR, but with Perriman hurt the Ravens aren't playing in an ideal world. Aiken in the next best option to take the starting role.

 

If he can do it consistently over an entire season, that would be great. He is the best option to start for the Ravens though.

[Ravensfan23]

I never said anything about him being an effective #2. My point is he is next up in the WR depth chart because he has shown the ability to play outside, and even though it is small sample size he has done well. 

 

In an ideal world, he isn't a #2 WR, but with Perriman hurt the Ravens aren't playing in an ideal world. Aiken in the next best option to take the starting role.

 

If he can do it consistently over an entire season, that would be great. He is the best option to start for the Ravens though.

I agree he is the best option to start the season, but noone can honestly say it's because he's proven he can excel in that role consistently. That was my point. Aiken consistently winning outside. He's atop the depth chart mainly because the 3 other guys, Brown, Perriman, Camp who had a chance to be there practiced a total of 8 days combined in a 3 1/2 Week Training Camp because of injury. The WR battle never got off the ground. Yes Aiken went out and did exactly what he was supposed to do. He consistently did his job despite the other guys not being around. So he's the #2 mostly by default, he competed against himself.

The moment Brown returned back to practice, which was the Eagles week he and Aiken began to split reps. In that game they alternated series and in the Redskins game they literally split reps before Steve got ejected. In fact on the first drive, Aiken saw the first snap and was immediately replaced by Brown for the rest of the drive. So it's not like Aiken impressed the coaches so much that he locked up the #2 in the other guys absence. By the time Brown got his legs under him good the "competition" portion of camp was over. It was all walk throughs, installs and gameplaning, that's the reason the coaches wanted to get him time vs ATL. So yes Aiken is the best option right now because he's the guy who's been there most consistently this offseason. But i feel he still needs to prove he can man that position well enough. I don't think anyone can honestly say he's shown enough other then practice. And if the preseason is any indication, Aiken and Brown will split reps early in the season and the hot hand will play most.

[GrimCoconut]

Honestly Aiken and Brown are both sorta the same guy. Brown is a better blocker and he may be a little faster but I think they both play somewhat similar. I like them both and I'd like one to separate from the other since I'm pretty sure both are restricted free agents next offseason. The time to make a decision has come.

I think Campanaro should be the #2 from what I've personally seen in preseason. He's been the second best WR in my eyes. I get the idea of the matchup with two smaller WR but we do have some tall TE here.

[Purple_City39]

I agree he is the best option to start the season, but noone can honestly say it's because he's proven he can excel in that role consistently. That was my point. Aiken consistently winning outside. He's atop the depth chart mainly because the 3 other guys, Brown, Perriman, Camp who had a chance to be there practiced a total of 8 days combined in a 3 1/2 Week Training Camp because of injury. The WR battle never got off the ground. Yes Aiken went out and did exactly what he was supposed to do. He consistently did his job despite the other guys not being around. So he's the #2 mostly by default, he competed against himself.

The moment Brown returned back to practice, which was the Eagles week he and Aiken began to split reps. In that game they alternated series and in the Redskins game they literally split reps before Steve got ejected. In fact on the first drive, Aiken saw the first snap and was immediately replaced by Brown for the rest of the drive. So it's not like Aiken impressed the coaches so much that he locked up the #2 in the other guys absence. By the time Brown got his legs under him good the "competition" portion of camp was over. It was all walk throughs, installs and gameplaning, that's the reason the coaches wanted to get him time vs ATL. So yes Aiken is the best option right now because he's the guy who's been there most consistently this offseason. But i feel he still needs to prove he can man that position well enough. I don't think anyone can honestly say he's shown enough other then practice. And if the preseason is any indication, Aiken and Brown will split reps early in the season and the hot hand will play most.

This.  All of this, especially the bolded

[January J]

I don't know why people are bagging on Aiken right now. It's very obvious that many players typically play it safe during the preseason and tend to not push themselves too hard which is why Preseason is no indication of a player/teams performance. The Giants went 4-0 last preseason including a HOF game win making them 5-0, but we all know how their season turned out. Now look at the Dallas Cowboys, 0-4 last Preseason, and they nearly made it to the NFC Title Game months later.

Just put the preseason notion down, if it's any of reason to be alarmed, it's because of the 2nd and 3rd team's performance, health of the O/D-Line and BP injury status, that's it IMO. Right now, the only way to judge this team is through the regular season. I don't even know if we got all our OL on the field for one Preseason game much less our entire defense.

Back to Aiken, here's the truth, he outplayed every other WR on the team outside of SSS. That's the truth plain and simple, even when Perriman was healthy he outperformed him in OTAs and Camp(Credit to Injury). IMO I think Aiken's role was to be the #3 WR and once SSS hanged them up, he would start alongside Perriman for the next season. Well, that could change if Aiken preforms at a level expected out of a #2 WR as he would easily lock up the starting spot for the rest of the season. Let's not forget that Aiken also heavily challenged Jimmy Smith in Camp. Let's give him a chance and see what he can do in a full 60 Minute game. I'm surely eager to see it. You probably think "Oh the Ravens do this every year, brag about a player then they turn out to preform poorly"....well have any of those players started? No. If Aiken was so average, then he wouldn't be our starting WR.

took the words out my mouth. Ppl are putting way too much stock into preseason. Daniel brown has 2 good plays and suddenly he should be on the roster. Buck Allen fumbles the ball and suddenly he's "fumble prone". Kendrick Lewis and Aiken don't make any "splash plays" and now they are extremely over-rated. I could go on and on, but the preseason is not a very good measuring tool. It's more for the Guys that are fighting for the final 8 spots or so and to run through some situational plays. No reason for guys who already have their spots locked up to go out there and give it their all and risk getting hurt. Unless your name is SSS and your just a freak of nature who's having his last hoorah.

[Ravensfan23]

Honestly Aiken and Brown are both sorta the same guy. Brown is a better blocker and he may be a little faster but I think they both play somewhat similar. I like them both and I'd like one to separate from the other since I'm pretty sure both are restricted free agents next offseason. The time to make a decision has come.

I think Campanaro should be the #2 from what I've personally seen in preseason. He's been the second best WR in my eyes. I get the idea of the matchup with two smaller WR but we do have some tall TE here.

Of i agree i like all our young WR. I never wanted to come off negatively towards Aiken. Although sometimes it seems like that the case when you express questions about someone. But i really like Kamar, Brown, Camp and can't wait to see what Perriman can bring. I think Trestman is the perfect guy to maximize all their talents and get the most out of each guy.

I love Kamar in tight spaces. I know many have compared him to Boldin but i think he's more like Pitta. His ability to win in tight spaces will be great for moving the chains. He's a pretty good blocker and sure handed.

I feel the same about Brown but i think he's a bit more explosive then Aiken. I like both guys in the slot, but feel Brown has a brighter upside outside of the two. I see Brown as a Kelly Washington type in the slot and if he could consistently win outside a I see him in the mold of a.TJ Housh. Don't think he's as talented as TJ in the route running department, but as a guy who can be used at all 3 WR positions.

Love Camp's ability to be shifty in tight spaces and find a way to get open. Another sure handed guy and while he can make plays outside i'm not sure he can live out there. I see him as a slot only guy but a really good one potential. He could definitely be a difference makerif healthy maybe even more so then the other 2 but as a slot only guy you can't really move him up the charts. If he could prove himself outside he'd be used more imo. A healthy training camp would have been huge for him imo.

[Static]

Anyone ever remember Steve sticking up for Torrey like he did Aiken in the presser?

[1/28/01]

Anyone ever remember Steve sticking up for Torrey like he did Aiken in the presser?

What was said?

[Cillmatic]

What was said?

They basically implied that Aiken is the #2 WR because we have no one else and not due to his merit.

[1/28/01]

They basically implied that Aiken is the #2 WR because we have no one else and not due to his merit.

Gotcha, and Sr came to his defense I assume. Thanks.

Edit - Which would be correct, ha.

Edited September 9, 2015 by 1/28/01

[PurpleCity5]

took the words out my mouth. Ppl are putting way too much stock into preseason. Daniel brown has 2 good plays and suddenly he should be on the roster. Buck Allen fumbles the ball and suddenly he's "fumble prone". Kendrick Lewis and Aiken don't make any "splash plays" and now they are extremely over-rated. I could go on and on, but the preseason is not a very good measuring tool. It's more for the Guys that are fighting for the final 8 spots or so and to run through some situational plays. No reason for guys who already have their spots locked up to go out there and give it their all and risk getting hurt. Unless your name is SSS and your just a freak of nature who's having his last hoorah.

Well said. 

 

I do think Camp should have a much bigger role then what he's given and easily leap over Marlon, but he's got to stay healthy in order to do that. I actually like our chances against Denver. Camp could be very nice this game. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[Static]

Gotcha, and Sr came to his defense I assume. Thanks.

Edit - Which would be correct, ha.

 

Yeah said Kamar works his booty off and a few other things. Which made me think, has Steve ever complimented Torrey?

[izvoodoo]

Yeah said Kamar works his booty off and a few other things. Which made me think, has Steve ever complimented Torrey?

To be fair Torrey never had those question marks.  Torrey's always been a productive NFL receiver, and belongs on the field.  

[polynesian15]

It has probably been mentioned already, but could Waller function as the interim deep threat until Breshad returns?
His 40 was almost equal to that of Torrey, but people have said he struggles getting off the line. He has jump ball ability and a big catch radius.

How is he not able to overpower most CB with sheer physicality?

[jazz1988]

Anyone ever remember Steve sticking up for Torrey like he did Aiken in the presser?

 

I don't remember that at all but why would he have to especially considering that Torrey was coming of a 1,000+ receiving yard season before Steve Smith was signed and was already consider a solid/playmakiing receiver.

[Purple_City39]

It has probably been mentioned already, but could Waller function as the interim deep threat until Breshad returns?

His 40 was almost equal to that of Torrey, but people have said he struggles getting off the line. He has jump ball ability and a big catch radius.

How is he not able to overpower most CB with sheer physicality?

I think getting off the line is more about short area quickness than strength.  Trying to outmuscle a corner is only going to slow you down anyway, you need to be able to quickly get around the jam at the line.  Most 6'5 or taller guys struggle at that. 

 

In terms of him being the speed threat, I'm quietly hoping the coaches do that also since they never sent him deep all preseason, but many here don't even feel he'll get a hat on Sunday.  I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't, I just hope he does