Who Are These 2015 Ravens (What's the Ravens' identity)

[GrimCoconut]

I've watched three preseason games now, and I figured this would be a nice topic to make. Last year, I'd say we were a zone run offense that featured a lot of the basic Kubiak offense but didn't quite feature the TE as much as the WR. We were a team who could beat you deep with Torrey catching the ball or generating a PI. Steve Smith Sr meanwhile did damage all over the place, although he admittedly wore down as the season progressed.

On defense, we were the same defense as before but we had a DL that did enough to stop the run so the LB could finish. Our secondary was suspect due to injury but the pass rush mitigated it.

This year, it seems we're still a run heavy offense but I noticed that it's clear the strength of this team isn't the WR corps but the TE corps. Gillmore looks more than solid and took the expected leap this year (so far) that I expected. In many ways, I think this offense reminds me some of the Patriots from years back. With what I've seen from Gillmore so far, and the potential flashed by both Boyle and Williams, and the proven-albeit-injured talent of Dennis Pitta, I think this offense is destined to feature the TE heavy. This seems to be our identity on offense.

On defense, it seems we're still searching for who we are. I don't see an identity yet here.

Sorry to be so verbose. I'd like to hear what others think our identity is on both offense and defense.

[hawkprey]

The whole idea that Trestman would abandon the run was nonsense. We haven't run many screens or had many catches by the RBs that plagued Chicago's 2014 either. Trestman specifically said he runs an offense based on the talent, not based on his preference.

 

We'll pretty much have the same offense we did last year - most snaps under center, a lot of play action, bootlegs and bunch formations. Steve Smith is our clear #1, Perriman the #2 and primary deep threat, Campanaro the primary slot receiver and Aiken the outside receiver to relieve Steve or push him into the slot. I don't see many snaps for Marlon, unless he can prove himself during the early season.

 

We'll also run 2 TE sets extensively. Gerry already said it during our game but Nick Boyle will be the #2 in run situations and Maxx the #2 in passing situations. Juice will probably be in for most of the snaps in 1 TE. On any snap, we'll probably see 3-4 players making up the end/backfield, so this is definitely an offense that wants to establish the run. I could definitely see Taliaferro getting a lot of those snaps once he's healthy.

[Purple_City39]

I don't think there's any real question on our "identity" on offense or defense.  Both will mainly be the same as last season.  Only thing is, the defense and backups simply aren't performing as well as we'd like.  Missed tackles are bad form.  Wide open WRs/TEs/RBs is either bad execution or serious miscommunication.  I doubt Pees is changing anything in his scheme so there's no real identity question there, just performance questions

[berad]

Tough to say. On offense, we have a ton of versatility. Fast guys, tall guys, strong guys. We can go 5 WRs, 3 TEs, line RBs up outside. Uneven line, extra OLmen. We have the capacity to do it all.

 

However, are those guys going to be quality? Gilmore, Taliaferro, Aiken, and Campanaro are stepping into bigger roles. Perriman, Williams, Allen, Waller, Boyle, and Butler (if he makes it) are unknowns. How will Steve Smith and Justin Forsett hold up?

 

Sucked to see Kubiak go but everyone says Trestman runs a similar system. We'll see the results, there's lots of new skill players.

 

On defense, our secondary is revamped. Lots of veteran talent there, if we can avoid injuries they're as good as we've had in a few years. LBs are the strength of the team, no weak spots along the starters - unless you want to nitpick on age. DL is interesting. Brandon Williams is poised to be a beast. Jernigan could be turning the corner to be a star and Canty is a solid starter on the other side. Does Canty stay healthy? He gets banged up from time to time. With Pees coordinating we'll most likely see similar things from that side of the ball. The run defense, outside of the Eagles game, has been stellar.

 

My big question is still returner. Jackson took two steps forward and one back on Saturday.

[Tru11]

balanced offense and bend but don't break defense.

 

don't think we will go heavy to 1 side on offense unless the situation in the game ask for it.

 

defense we will stop the run and then send a 4 man rush most of the time on passing down with an occasional blitz.

coverage will be looking to not give up the big pass and will rely on players making the tackle to force a stop.

 

in the redzone we will buckle down and not give up the TD.

 

people wont like this approach but we simply don't have the players to be aggressive on defense.

unless you don't mind giving up big plays lol.

[berad]

balanced offense and bend but don't break defense.

 

don't think we will go heavy to 1 side on offense unless the situation in the game ask for it.

 

defense we will stop the run and then send a 4 man rush most of the time on passing down with an occasional blitz.

coverage will be looking to not give up the big pass and will rely on players making the tackle to force a stop.

 

in the redzone we will buckle down and not give up the TD.

 

people wont like this approach but we simply don't have the players to be aggressive on defense.

unless you don't mind giving up big plays lol.

 

What players are we missing exactly? We have lots of Pro Bowl or Pro Bowl-caliber players at every spot. If you had to choose a weak spot, it might be Canty's DE position or Webb's health.

[Tru11]

What players are we missing exactly? We have lots of Pro Bowl or Pro Bowl-caliber players at every spot. If you had to choose a weak spot, it might be Canty's DE position or Webb's health.

 

we have lots of quality players but most of them are good at 1 particular thing and not really that versatile to fit an aggressive defense.

 

neither doom or suggs are able to cover TE in man cov and doom is pretty horrible dropping back in zone.

they are also our only capable pass rushers so yeah everyone will be expecting to rush the passer lol.

 

mosley and daryl are pretty decent in zone but im not convinced they would hold up well covering TEs by themselves.

kendrick lewis is decent in zone but pretty bad in man coverage.

Hill is pretty good in zone and decent man cov.

 

i would not trust any CB besides jimmy to be on an island without a safety over the top.

 

brandon williams is a beast against the run but im not sure he is a real pass rushing presence on the inside.

canty is decent at everything good at nothing.

jernigan showed promise as an inside pass rusher but he cant stay healthy at this point.

 

our depth after these guys isn't breeding confidence lol.

 

TBH im perfectly fine having these guys play to their strength instead of having them do stuff they are not good at for the sake of being aggressive lol.

 

we seem to give up big plays while at time being conservative.

1 could imagine what would happen if we where aggressive lol

[Bruce_Almty]

Except for a series or 2 on offense and the same on defense, the Ravens pre-season has been very lackluster. Crocket Gilmore stepped up at TE but no one else has stepped up and made a statement at RB or WR or O-line. Same with the D-line, EdgeRushers, CBs and Safeties ... No one has stood out. It feels like // seems like people have jobs and the backups know their place.  

 

One of the site writers I thought stated it perfectly ... the questions that existed at the beginning of the TC still remain unanswered at the end of TC. The final preseason game will tell us nothing, so the first 4 regular season games will set the tone and reveal the identity of the 2015 Raven team. Can to offense score in the red zone or will we leave points on the field and settle for FGs? Do we have a winning short-yardage offense? Is it pass oriented or run oriented? Other than SSS, is there a WR we can depend on to make a play and move the chains? Who is the PR/KR guy? Can the D-line stop the run? Can the backend defend against the pass? All questions, imo, that are unanswered and won't really be answered until the end of the first quarter of the season. Again, no one stood up or stood out.

 

On paper I think we look good for the season, but "good" still leaves a lot of distance to great. To win our division, our conference and compete for the SB, we need to significantly improve on "good".

Edited August 31, 2015 by Bruce_Almty

[berad]

we have lots of quality players but most of them are good at 1 particular thing and not really that versatile to fit an aggressive defense.

 

neither doom or suggs are able to cover TE in man cov and doom is pretty horrible dropping back in zone.

they are also our only capable pass rushers so yeah everyone will be expecting to rush the passer lol.

 

mosley and daryl are pretty decent in zone but im not convinced they would hold up well covering TEs by themselves.

kendrick lewis is decent in zone but pretty bad in man coverage.

Hill is pretty good in zone and decent man cov.

 

i would not trust any CB besides jimmy to be on an island without a safety over the top.

 

brandon williams is a beast against the run but im not sure he is a real pass rushing presence on the inside.

canty is decent at everything good at nothing.

jernigan showed promise as an inside pass rusher but he cant stay healthy at this point.

 

our depth after these guys isn't breeding confidence lol.

 

TBH im perfectly fine having these guys play to their strength instead of having them do stuff they are not good at for the sake of being aggressive lol.

 

we seem to give up big plays while at time being conservative.

1 could imagine what would happen if we where aggressive lol

 

It's just not Pees' style to call an aggressive-style of defense. We'll see flashes of it. Exotic blitzes against the Falcons, only 1 down lineman but it's mostly going to be his usual stuff. Which is good a lot of the time until the opponents get on a roll and we can't get out of it.

 

Not everyone is JJ Watt, Ray Lewis, or Richard Sherman but we've got talented players. Those 'weaknesses' aren't really valid for not being aggressive, Pees just doesn't call a game that way. Not saying we should bring 6 guys every time but there are times when the vanilla defense gets abused and underperforms.

[izvoodoo]

I think people are over estimating the pass rush.  I think the secondary can improve and come around.  But the pass rush seems more like a bunch of run stoppers and suggs and doom.  I'm a little worried.  But honestly at this point I'm worried 

[JoeyFlex5]

as long as the line stays healthy, i think this is a team that wins in the trenches. 

 

the run game appears as dominant as ever, the TE's appear to be studs, the front seven is every OC's worst nightmare. 

 

meanwhile our wr's are a question mark, and our secondary is as well, and every team we face will try to exploit those weaknesses. OCs will go after melvin or webb by letting them dictate the play, playing off? throw a curl, playing tight? run a fade, they'll do it until we make them change it up. 

 

defenses facing us will key on in the run and try their hardest to force us to win through the air, smitty draws the top CB and the DC hope thats enough, they put 8 in the box and dare us to throw and assume our wr's cant win matchups. 

 

we will need to take full advantage of facing 8 man fronts. without successful play action then i think the passing game struggles. 

 

i think this teams offense is the same as it always has been, play physical, play smart, impose your will and get explosive when you need to.

[berad]

I think people are over estimating the pass rush.  I think the secondary can improve and come around.  But the pass rush seems more like a bunch of run stoppers and suggs and doom.  I'm a little worried.  But honestly at this point I'm worried 

 

We'll need to see improvements from Upshaw, Jernigan, and Williams to overcome the loss and versatility of McPhee. We'll see what Smith brings, too.

[Edgar]

I think people are over estimating the pass rush.  I think the secondary can improve and come around.  But the pass rush seems more like a bunch of run stoppers and suggs and doom.  I'm a little worried.  But honestly at this point I'm worried 

from what i have seen, Zadarius smith is more likely to someday  be courtney Upshaw than he is  Pernell McPhee.

[izvoodoo]

from what i have seen, Zadarius smith is more likely to someday  be courtney Upshaw than he is  Pernell McPhee.

He's not the edge setter Upshaw is.  And I think Smith can be a good player, but McPhee was really really good in this system.  That's a high bar.  

[Willbacker]

It's just not Pees' style to call an aggressive-style of defense. We'll see flashes of it. Exotic blitzes against the Falcons, only 1 down lineman but it's mostly going to be his usual stuff. Which is good a lot of the time until the opponents get on a roll and we can't get out of it.

 

Not everyone is JJ Watt, Ray Lewis, or Richard Sherman but we've got talented players. Those 'weaknesses' aren't really valid for not being aggressive, Pees just doesn't call a game that way. Not saying we should bring 6 guys every time but there are times when the vanilla defense gets abused and underperforms.

It'd be nice if he'd mix it up in the 4th(when we have the lead) and the 2 minute drill in the 1st half. We always seem to get chewed up slowly but surely which gives the other team confidence cuz they moving the ball. Harbs couldn't have said it any better when for once he'd like to see a stop during another teams 2 minute drill.

 

As for our identity it'll be aggresive mainly run stopping D(until the game or half is on the line) and on offense we'll keep trying to grind it out with time consuming possessions by running and play action(more TE's plus Juice) with the occasional deep but with more finishes plus I'd like to see us take the points more often if we don't finish. Grrrr!

[JoeyFlex5]

i dont know why ZDS every drew comparisons to mcphee to begin with, mcphee is a very agile and explosive player, ZDS is more in the mold of courtney upshaw but with more explosion and less pure mass and bruteness. ZDS is a tough and violent player with decent explosiveness, but he is nowhere near the kind of player mcphee was, he strikes me as a happy medium between mcphee and upshaw, and i felt this way before we even drafted him, i also think his ceiling is higher than both of theirs, but his floor may be lower as well.

[allblackraven]

I don't think this team will change much offensively. I hope we deliberately avoided some stuff in the preseason (deep passes) as opposed to lacking in deep threat department.

 

Defense is another story - we should stop kidding ourselves and admit that Ngata and McPhee will be huge losses and hard to replace, particularly if injuries continue creeping in. Carl Davis, Z. Smith, Jernigan and Upshaw have the work cut out for them and I can see Pees having to be little more adventurous with blitzes because we clearly have players capable of executing them well (Mosely, Hill, Brooks). For some reason, I'm less worried about our secondary this year, I think we'll be fine there baring injuries, of course.

 

It will be long and difficult season, there aren't many easy games on our schedule but I think we have enough to make it deep run in January again.

Edited August 31, 2015 by allblackraven

[izvoodoo]

I love how every player who gets dinged up can't stay healthy.  The NFL has a 100% injury rate basically, chill guys.  

[beanfigger]

That was a good point about the TEs being featured more. I think that was doomed last season after Pitta went down again, but this year I think we should be deeper. Another reason for this is that we will run more two-TE sets, many times on runs, but we'll need to mix that up a bit to keep defenses honest. We certainly have the hands in the TE corps to count on. Maybe not Vernon's speed, Graham's jump ball skills, or Gronk's Gronkness (though Gilmore made a nice play in that category last game), but we have hands everywhere. This will be a big factor of 3rd and medium and inside the 10.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Simple Grim. I'll explain.

We're a balance team. We don't have a true definitive weakness, and if you think that from watching preseason. I'm sorry but there's a good chance you're wrong.

Offensivley we're a team that's not going to go too uptempo. We'll run first and foremost and throw in a lot of play action passes and bootlegs. We'll at times run an offense with one WR, two TEs, Juice, and Forsett in the backfield with Joe. Perriman will be the deep threat this year(next year he'll be given the keys to the number one spot. Campanaro will be put into the slot. Honestly, this is probably the best offensive team we've ever put together on paper. If we can capitalize we'll be fun to watch.

Defensively we're going to hit you in the mouth. We're good at that. We will stop the run very effectively, and be able to rush the pass rusher while our secondary will play just good enough(sans Jimmy if he returns healthy).

[DomMcRaven]

This is a very interesting topic. Providing that the defense (particularly secondary) stays healthy, we should be a tad bit better on that side of the ball. 

 

As for the offense, while I don't like the uncertainty at WR (outside of Triple S), I, like many others who stated it, like our TEs. This is where I'm intrigued with Trestman. How will he use our TEs to open up room for our WRs? I still need to see more from Aiken and Brown. However, the health of Perriman and Camps will obviously be huge as well. Where does Waller fit in this? If he can continues to develop, this offense will get quite interesting. 

[ravensdan]

I see similar things to Grim. I expect the offense to focus on the tight ends as well as the RBs catching passes with Steve Smith getting a ton of targets at WR. More than last year. This will be the offense especially early in the year. Hopefully Perriman can make one or two big plays per game early on and is more of a threat down the road and be more consistent.

[ravensdan]

The defense really needs Jernigan, davis, can't to supply the interior pressure. There's no third threat as an outside rusher outside of doom and Suggs. We will need the interior pressure to mask this weakness. It's still more rush than most teams can boast. I do expect more schemed pressure than pees has used the past few years to compensate. Someone mentioned tight ends. Hill is the player who can take out the difference making tight ends one on one for the most part. I think we can use Brooks in a role similar to how arizona uses Buchanan as a third safety but I think Brooks is better with man coverage. I think he can be a big impact in the secondary even with limited snaps.

[Edgar]

He's not the edge setter Upshaw is.  And I think Smith can be a good player, but McPhee was really really good in this system.  That's a high bar.

Clearly. Upshaw wasn't the edge setter he is now in year one. Smith will ultimately take over for him, not McPhee.

[GrimCoconut]

Simple Grim. I'll explain.

We're a balance team. We don't have a true definitive weakness, and if you think that from watching preseason. I'm sorry but there's a good chance you're wrong.

Offensivley we're a team that's not going to go too uptempo. We'll run first and foremost and throw in a lot of play action passes and bootlegs. We'll at times run an offense with one WR, two TEs, Juice, and Forsett in the backfield with Joe. Perriman will be the deep threat this year(next year he'll be given the keys to the number one spot. Campanaro will be put into the slot. Honestly, this is probably the best offensive team we've ever put together on paper. If we can capitalize we'll be fun to watch.

Defensively we're going to hit you in the mouth. We're good at that. We will stop the run very effectively, and be able to rush the pass rusher while our secondary will play just good enough(sans Jimmy if he returns healthy).

What are you talking about? I never said a thing about a weakness on this team. I said I think our identity is a TE heavy offense with a strong run game with less reliance on the WR. I'm not saying we'll ignore WR but it won't be the focus and I expect more 2 TE sets. I also said I just don't know what our identify is or will be on defense. It sounds like you inferred a lot of nonsense and then you come here and tell me it's simple as if it's 1 + 1.

[PurpleCity5]

I'm a bit surprised at what is said about the secondary and the lack of optimism. As far as I'm concerned this safety group is LIGHT YEARS above what we had last year with Elam/Stewart. As far as CBs go, this group is def. better than last years. Am I the only one who has been impressed with Raashan Melvin? I mean against the Eagles he was a true standout on the defense. He didn't allow anything. There's even talk about him surpassing Webb and claiming the #2 job. I mean that truly shows the strides he's made. My prime concern with the secondary is with Webb, he hasn't played in the pre-season as of yet and he really needs a chance to. I hope he can rebound this season because it's a must for him. Also, we all know that Jimmy Smith is a stud. All in all, as far as the secondary goes, I think the most concerning thing will be depth. Overall, I expect this defense to be great. 

[PurpleCity5]

Offensively I see us being fairly similar in a balanced approach. Run-first team that can surely throw it in the air. I expect the WR group to take a leap overall. I do anticipate Perriman being back soon, maybe week 2, hopeful for week 1. If we can get him back soon, it would be a big boost for this offense. Him, Smith Sr. and Aiken would be deadly on the field together.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Yikes. My bad. That stuff about the weakness wasn't directed towards you. I worded it wrong. My bad. But for the most part, I agree with you.

[ravensdan]

I'm a bit surprised at what is said about the secondary and the lack of optimism. As far as I'm concerned this safety group is LIGHT YEARS above what we had last year with Elam/Stewart. As far as CBs go, this group is def. better than last years. Am I the only one who has been impressed with Raashan Melvin? I mean against the Eagles he was a true standout on the defense. He didn't allow anything. There's even talk about him surpassing Webb and claiming the #2 job. I mean that truly shows the strides he's made. My prime concern with the secondary is with Webb, he hasn't played in the pre-season as of yet and he really needs a chance to. I hope he can rebound this season because it's a must for him. Also, we all know that Jimmy Smith is a stud. All in all, as far as the secondary goes, I think the most concerning thing will be depth. Overall, I expect this defense to be great.

I don't reqlly agree Webb needs to play in the pre season... Why? His main concerns have been injury. He's a vet. He's not learning a new offense or proving himself. It's more important he stays healthy and stays available.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't reqlly agree Webb needs to play in the pre season... Why? His main concerns have been injury. He's a vet. He's not learning a new offense or proving himself. It's more important he stays healthy and stays available.

Concerns of Webb not playing in the Pre-Season was among the Ravens themselves. Its nice to play in the preseason to shake off the rust and get into game form. This could be his last year in Baltimore if he doesn't step up. Melvin has benifited greatly from playing in the preseason and with each game he has continuely been pushing Webb, I wouldn't be shocked if he beat him out for the starting job.

Edited September 1, 2015 by PurpleCity5