its only preseason, but...

[Tru11]

well if people stop having double standards this wont be discussion at all.

 

you cant rip the defense and then give the offense a pass

 

if you blame the defense for falling a part late in the game then you should rip the offense to for being just as bad late in the game as well.

 

we pretty much got booted from the play offs everytime tnx to the offense being god awful late in the game.

 

flacco fanboys are just silly trying to blame everyone else so their hero gets no blame whatsoever....

[52520Andrew]

Or because 3 drives will define our season.

I hope that is not the impression you all are getting from all that, I'm saying you gotta look at the entire season, not 3 drives or 1 play.

[redrum52]

to everyone trying to make the point that there are times when our offense hasnt scored on the final drive for the comeback win, lets look at this realistically...

as a defense, playing with a lead, is a beautiful thing, you know the pass is coming, you get to let your dbs cover and the front gets to pin their ears back and fly to the qb, it is the ultimate advantage for a defense KNOWING that the opposing offense has absolutely no choice but to play 1 dimensional.

so why is it that everyone wants to just tell us to forget about it, and cut our defense some slack, when they absolutely stink up the joint and give away games despite having one of the best advantages in football? and in the same breath you divert the attention to the offense, who has failed to pull comeback drives late in games, even though playing 1 dimensional on offense in desperate moments is much less likely to end with positive results, than defending a lead as a defense. and the saddest part about this... is we have one of the bar none best pass rushes in the league, facing a pass rush such as the ravens, it should be nearly impossible to play us 1 dimensional, but somehow, some way, every time a team decides they are just gonna throw the ball for 25 straight snaps, they absolutely light us up.

Every rule changes since 08, when Flacco and Harbs came to our team, has basically benefited the offense, yet it's a defenses dream to have to protect some 3 or 4 point lead? It can't be both ways. It can't be, I'd the defense gives up a lead they didn't do their job, but if the offense doesn't score, it's still the defenses job to have held prior.

Teu has a great point and of you want to go by end of game situations, we been knocked out the playoffs every time because of the offense. Perfect example is the Patriots games. The roles were just reversed. How many times have we seen dominant defensive performances but they don't hold late and all the blame is put on them. Now, when the offense finally puts in work and has a chance to win the game late, no one will hold the offense accountable for not scoring when it matters.

[berad]

well if people stop having double standards this wont be discussion at all.

 

you cant rip the defense and then give the offense a pass

 

if you blame the defense for falling a part late in the game then you should rip the offense to for being just as bad late in the game as well.

 

we pretty much got booted from the play offs everytime tnx to the offense being god awful late in the game.

 

flacco fanboys are just silly trying to blame everyone else so their hero gets no blame whatsoever....

 

What does blaming the defense or offense (Flacco, specifically, apparently) accomplish?

 

Look at the changes the FO made this offseason and they'll tell you who they believed the weak links to be... this offseason: new crop of receivers, additions to the secondary, and front seven depth. That should also include young players they're developing across the team and grooming along the OL for depth, too. I know the Ravens draft by BPA but that is informed by need.

[berad]

Every rule changes since 08, when Flacco and Harbs came to our team, has basically benefited the offense, yet it's a defenses dream to have to protect some 3 or 4 point lead? It can't be both ways. It can't be, I'd the defense gives up a lead they didn't do their job, but if the offense doesn't score, it's still the defenses job to have held prior.

Teu has a great point and of you want to go by end of game situations, we been knocked out the playoffs every time because of the offense. Perfect example is the Patriots games. The roles were just reversed. How many times have we seen dominant defensive performances but they don't hold late and all the blame is put on them. Now, when the offense finally puts in work and has a chance to win the game late, no one will hold the offense accountable for not scoring when it matters.

 

Two 14-pt leads. What does it accomplish, anyway, assigning blame? When the Ravens gain 400+ yds, hold TOP advantage, and score 31 pts in an away playoff game, would you expect a win? What about when they give 422 yds, 35 pts, and 6/11 3rd down conversions, what's to be expected then?

 

Which side of the ball performed well, which side struggled? Again, assigning blame doesn't really matter, as Harbaugh said the other night you don't need to fess up and say 'my bad', we know who's bad it was.

 

This is just some ridiculous spin being put on a straight-forward set of events.

[redrum52]

Two 14-pt leads. What does it accomplish, anyway, assigning blame? When the Ravens gain 400+ yds, hold TOP advantage, and score 31 pts in an away playoff game, would you expect a win? What about when they give 422 yds, 35 pts, and 6/11 3rd down conversions, what's to be expected then?

Which side of the ball performed well, which side struggled? Again, assigning blame doesn't really matter, as Harbaugh said the other night you don't need to fess up and say 'my bad', we know who's bad it was.

This is just some ridiculous spin being put on a straight-forward set of events.

He was assigning blame, which is why this was brought up. I know you see constant threads where people will dump on one side, while not realizing both sides could've done more. Point is, a game doesn't just usually come down to the last 2 minutes. There are things throughout, obviously, that affect the outcome.

[Purple_City39]

So it seems everyone wants to blame one unit or the other based on their personal bias.  There's no way you can blame 6 playoff exits on the offense and there's no way you can say the offense is guilt free.  Let's look at the playoff losses

 

2008 - The defense had one major mess up letting Holmes catch a 7 yard pass, or so, and run it an additional 50+ yards through and around about 7 defenders for a TD.  That said, this game was lost by Joe's pick 6 to Polamalu.  But it was a rookie in the AFC championship game.  No rookie has made it past here in NFL history for a reason.

 

2009 - The offense sucked.  Plain and simple

 

2010 - Both units sucked.  Neither did much of anything in the second quarter and both had some luck on their side in the first.  Housh dropping a wide open pass that hit him in the chest on 4th down was just as bad as Webb watching Brown run right by him when he had deep sideline coverage on what ended up being the game winning drive.  If you watched this game and can't admit both units were bad you're biased.

 

2011 - All things considering, this was a good game by both units.  The defense did fail to stop Tom Brady of all people on a QB sneak and the o-line couldn't stop Wilfork in the first half.  The second half was decent for both units considering it was the Patriots in New England in the AFC Championship game (they were undefeated in Boston championship games for a reason).  This is the year blame goes in individuals, specifically a kicker who missed what was basically a glorified extra point.  Or maybe Harbaugh for not calling the time out.

 

2014 - Sorry but I don't care about INTs here.  It's incredibly unlikely for an NFL offense to score on every drive just like it's incredibly unlikely for an NFL defense to force a punt or turnover on every drive.  Especially in the playoffs when you're facing the best the NFL has to offer.  That said, any game a team loses where there offense scores more than 30 in an opposing stadium is the fault of the defense, period.  Just like any game the team loses where the defense holds a team to under 14 at home is a loss on the offense.  I don't care about dropped TDs and INTs.  Yes they sucked, but to have the expectation that the offense should have done more.......in an opposing stadium......in the playoffs......against the caliber of defense they had (30+ against the 8th ranked scoring defense) is foolish.  Seriously, 35 points allowed and some of y'all blame the offense???  That's just as silly to me as not blaming Joe's pick 6 in 08

[berad]

So it seems everyone wants to blame one unit or the other based on their personal bias.  There's no way you can blame 6 playoff exits on the offense and there's no way you can say the offense is guilt free.  Let's look at the playoff losses

Agree whole-heartedly with this. Forgive me for not quoting it all.

[redrum52]

So it seems everyone wants to blame one unit or the other based on their personal bias. There's no way you can blame 6 playoff exits on the offense and there's no way you can say the offense is guilt free. Let's look at the playoff losses

2008 - The defense had one major mess up letting Holmes catch a 7 yard pass, or so, and run it an additional 50+ yards through and around about 7 defenders for a TD. That said, this game was lost by Joe's pick 6 to Polamalu. But it was a rookie in the AFC championship game. No rookie has made it past here in NFL history for a reason.

2009 - The offense sucked. Plain and simple

2010 - Both units sucked. Neither did much of anything in the second quarter and both had some luck on their side in the first. Housh dropping a wide open pass that hit him in the chest on 4th down was just as bad as Webb watching Brown run right by him when he had deep sideline coverage on what ended up being the game winning drive. If you watched this game and can't admit both units were bad you're biased.

2011 - All things considering, this was a good game by both units. The defense did fail to stop Tom Brady of all people on a QB sneak and the o-line couldn't stop Wilfork in the first half. The second half was decent for both units considering it was the Patriots in New England in the AFC Championship game (they were undefeated in Boston championship games for a reason). This is the year blame goes in individuals, specifically a kicker who missed what was basically a glorified extra point. Or maybe Harbaugh for not calling the time out.

2014 - Sorry but I don't care about INTs here. It's incredibly unlikely for an NFL offense to score on every drive just like it's incredibly unlikely for an NFL defense to force a punt or turnover on every drive. Especially in the playoffs when you're facing the best the NFL has to offer. That said, any game a team loses where there offense scores more than 30 in an opposing stadium is the fault of the defense, period. Just like any game the team loses where the defense holds a team to under 14 at home is a loss on the offense. I don't care about dropped TDs and INTs. Yes they sucked, but to have the expectation that the offense should have done more.......in an opposing stadium......in the playoffs......against the caliber of defense they had (30+ against the 8th ranked scoring defense) is foolish. Seriously, 35 points allowed and some of y'all blame the offense??? That's just as silly to me as not blaming Joe's pick 6 in 08

10 I blame on the offense and no one really believes the offense is at fault for 14.

In the 10 game, without looking it up, I'm pretty sure we were up 21-7, going into the third and the offense had a sretch of series ending something like fumble, punt, fumble, int. Most of those turnovers gave the Steelers great field position as well. Also, offense couldn't move the ball or punch it in when it mattered.

And... sometimes the other team is just better or gets lucky. 11 to me is a prime example of a team being lucky. Both sides can play well and you still end up the loser.

Edited September 2, 2015 by redrum52

[Purple_City39]

10 I blame on the offense and no one really believes the offense is at fault for 14.

In the 10 game, without looking it up, I'm pretty sure we were up 21-7, going into the third and the offense had a sretch of series ending something like fumble, punt, fumble, int. Most of those turnovers gave the Steelers great field position as well. Also, offense couldn't move the ball or punch it in when it mattered.

And... sometimes the other team is just better or gets lucky. 11 to me is a prime example of a team being lucky. Both sides can play well and you still end up the loser.

I can see your pov on 2010, but remember that losing that lead was built on a very unusual first half.  I recall the Steelers fumble we recovered where the ball sat on the ground for about 7 seconds between 3 Steelers before our d-lineman dove on it.  Nobody thought that was a fumble and the lineman must have realized there was no whistle.  Everyone else on both teams were huddling up again.  The first half was the most flukey game I'd ever seen.  The second half we were outscored 28-7, showing that neither offense nor defense played well at all.

 

This is all off memory though as I haven't looked it up.

 

I also agree that fans never want to just admit another team was just plain better and blame isn't needed.  Even the Ravens can be outclassed (see 2013 Broncos game or 2014 Steelers game #2).  As seen above, I have no issue putting blame but I also have no issue flat out saying both units were bad (2010) or both were good but we still lost (2011)

Edited September 2, 2015 by Purple_City39

[PurpleCity5]

I don't see how we're a worse team this year than last year. The secondary just can't be worse this year than last year. This safety group is far better with the lineup of Hill/Lewis rather than Elam/Stewart. We got Jimmy back in addition to the fact that Melvin has outperformed Webb, in addition to the fact that we should get Webb back soon rounding out a CB group of Smith/Melvin/Webb/Arrington. A group that is very formidable IMO. 

 

The Defensive Line still looks stout against first team offenses. Please realize that when Harbaugh began pulling the starters out, Kirk's job got a lot easier. 

 

I'm confident that the offense will be better, as will the defense, the secondary is much upgraded IMO. Once they all begin to mesh together I'm confident they'll surely look great. 

 

My prime concern is the health of the OL, injuries to K.O and Eugene simply cannot happen during the season. 

[Tenacious Faulker]

What I have confidence in are the starters..  I feel they can go toe-to-toe with the best and prevail as much as Green Bay, New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle and Indy. 

 

Where my faith is has become rattled is in the back-ups.  High hopes for Perriman, but his development has been stunted because of his condition.  He might've recovered from minor knee surgery by now.  However, he does have the potential to get up to speed in this offense quickly if he begins playing by week 1 or 2.  Few of the other WRs after Smith Sr. have distinguished themselves.  Even Aiken seems to be more of a #3 at this point.  Hope Perriman is ready soon.

 

Back-up QBs are worse then Tyrod and this coming from a Schaub fan.  He looks very uncomfortable in an offense-system he once benefitted from.  Renner is raw, but he's making plays whereas Schaub hasn't shaken the interception bug that has gripped him since 2013.

 

The DL and OL back ups are getting beat.  When the starters are in they get penetration, but the back ups are allowing #2's to handle them.  Depth in the trenches is what has set the ravens apart from most teams especially the Steelers as of late.  Hopefully the starters and key back ups get healthy and stay that way.

 

Corners are looking like they in disarray.  To be fair the starters and back ups appear close, but when they're bad that's not good.

 

I hope the starters get healthy and stay that way.  Otherwise I'm not confident about their chances at all.

[ravensfan2430]

If Jimmy stays healthy the entire year, then we are better than last year's team.

[Tru11]

What does blaming the defense or offense (Flacco, specifically, apparently) accomplish?

 

Look at the changes the FO made this offseason and they'll tell you who they believed the weak links to be... this offseason: new crop of receivers, additions to the secondary, and front seven depth. That should also include young players they're developing across the team and grooming along the OL for depth, too. I know the Ravens draft by BPA but that is informed by need.

 

ask the people that start these discussions by making threads like these....

 

i did not start this discussion nor did i lay blame on 1 particular unit/player.

 

the only thing i did was:

1 trying to argue that 1drive does not define how a unit played throughout the game

2 use their own criteria against them by listing what happened in the play offs on our last drives before we lost.

 

basically im saying that if you want to blame the defense based on a certain criteria  , you must blame the offense as well based on that same criteria.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Tru11

[Tru11]

So it seems everyone wants to blame one unit or the other based on their personal bias.  There's no way you can blame 6 playoff exits on the offense and there's no way you can say the offense is guilt free.  Let's look at the playoff losses

 

2008 - The defense had one major mess up letting Holmes catch a 7 yard pass, or so, and run it an additional 50+ yards through and around about 7 defenders for a TD.  That said, this game was lost by Joe's pick 6 to Polamalu.  But it was a rookie in the AFC championship game.  No rookie has made it past here in NFL history for a reason.

 

2009 - The offense sucked.  Plain and simple

 

2010 - Both units sucked.  Neither did much of anything in the second quarter and both had some luck on their side in the first.  Housh dropping a wide open pass that hit him in the chest on 4th down was just as bad as Webb watching Brown run right by him when he had deep sideline coverage on what ended up being the game winning drive.  If you watched this game and can't admit both units were bad you're biased.

 

2011 - All things considering, this was a good game by both units.  The defense did fail to stop Tom Brady of all people on a QB sneak and the o-line couldn't stop Wilfork in the first half.  The second half was decent for both units considering it was the Patriots in New England in the AFC Championship game (they were undefeated in Boston championship games for a reason).  This is the year blame goes in individuals, specifically a kicker who missed what was basically a glorified extra point.  Or maybe Harbaugh for not calling the time out.

 

2014 - Sorry but I don't care about INTs here.  It's incredibly unlikely for an NFL offense to score on every drive just like it's incredibly unlikely for an NFL defense to force a punt or turnover on every drive.  Especially in the playoffs when you're facing the best the NFL has to offer.  That said, any game a team loses where there offense scores more than 30 in an opposing stadium is the fault of the defense, period.  Just like any game the team loses where the defense holds a team to under 14 at home is a loss on the offense.  I don't care about dropped TDs and INTs.  Yes they sucked, but to have the expectation that the offense should have done more.......in an opposing stadium......in the playoffs......against the caliber of defense they had (30+ against the 8th ranked scoring defense) is foolish.  Seriously, 35 points allowed and some of y'all blame the offense???  That's just as silly to me as not blaming Joe's pick 6 in 08

 

according to OP only the last 1/2 drives/2 minutes of a game matter.

 

going by that criteria he is holding to judge the defense, the offense is pretty much at fault for us losing the play offs.

ive tried arguing that its not really a fair criteria but most dont care lol.

[January J]

im not saying the sky is falling and im still projecting a playoff appearance, but i am pointing out that this team has its fair share of issues, and if they cant be corrected then there is a chance of the season not going as planned, im not so sure we could withstand another injury bug like we sorta did last year. if our DL keeps getting injured or if suggs or doom shows their age, then things could get ugly. also if our OL or WR corps keep getting hurt then we wouldnt be too far from a repeat of 2013. i think its a major concern and if everyone gets healthy then we will be beyond competitive, but if our stars miss games the way they miss practice, then im worried.

I just counted Atleast 5 "ifs"

You can what if just about everything. Yes it's nice to have a plan b and depth but at some point you just have to roll with what you got bc every team faces those same what ifs.

[FlackAttack]

I just counted Atleast 5 "ifs"

You can what if just about everything. Yes it's nice to have a plan b and depth but at some point you just have to roll with what you got bc every team faces those same what ifs.

 

i usually dont agree with you but man you put the nail on the head with this one

[January J]

i usually dont agree with you but man you put the nail on the head with this one

lol yeah we butt heads from time to time but it's all good. In the end we all want the same thing which is another Super Bowl trophy. We just sometimes differ on the best way for us to get there - like our opinions actually matter anyway.

[FlackAttack]

that's right JJ, after this season you gonna have to change your name to February Joe

[January J]

that's right JJ, after this season you gonna have to change your name to February Joe

actually my name is Johnny & I was born in January.. Lol One of them double meanin type of things. but I hear ya.

[RedFire]

Until he gets a DUI with illegal firearms in the car while he calls in a bomb threat to the airport. When did this become a woman issue? This dude has 99 problems, but...

 

when you blackout anything can happen. and the woman issue is the only thing that matters in this gender neutral world if you will.

 

I'm saying the only thing that could hurt him is an issue with a woman...noone cares about anything else from a public perception. the narrative for aldon "is at least he didn't pull a ray rice" so he's a better person 

[beanfigger]

when you blackout anything can happen. and the woman issue is the only thing that matters in this gender neutral world if you will.

I'm saying the only thing that could hurt him is an issue with a woman...noone cares about anything else from a public perception. the narrative for aldon "is at least he didn't pull a ray rice" so he's a better person

This is a ridiculous statement to make. The only thing that matters? Really? As he stares down another lengthy suspension, is likely involved in a frustrating search for employment, and is trashed on every show for his behavior, I'm sure he and everyone else will say that everything else he did matters.

It seems you're really upset that Rice got in trouble for knocking out his woman on video for all to see, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this.

[polynesian15]

I just counted Atleast 5 "ifs"

You can what if just about everything. Yes it's nice to have a plan b and depth but at some point you just have to roll with what you got bc every team faces those same what ifs.

Exactly, not many teams could make it as far as we did last season with such a devastated secondary, and still we had the chance to send Bellicheat and Crybrady home at the end of that game. It was kind of an achievement in itself!

Let's go on a rampage this season and get Smitty that ring!