its only preseason, but...

[FlackAttack]

just like i predicted, instead of trying to make an argument that our defense has NOT historically blown close leads(when they obviously have), you argue semantics. 

 

our offense has had its fair share of hiccups, but if we have a lead in the 4th quarter, we should still be able to protect that lead, and we cant. 

 

we won a superbowl by protecting the lead..

[JoeyFlex5]

we won a superbowl by protecting the lead..

i know, when we successfully protect the lead, we win super bowls. stopping the late surges from opposing offenses has been a major factor in the differences between us winning it all and us falling short.

[Tru11]

actually the lack of an quality offense has been the main reason for us falling short.

 

2014 is the only season where we fell short because of the defense falling apart.

something with PS players starting at corner i believe.

 

so historically the defense has carried this team to more wins then the offense.

 

2008-2011 we fell short tnx to the offense and lets not even address the years prior to that.

 

2013 was a almost historically bad year on offense and almost half the points the team gave up in the 4th where due to offense errors lol.

 

but sure just cherry pick some games and then just neglect majority of that game and blame the defense alone for the loss....

[GrimCoconut]

I will caution that preseason does mean little. 

 

2014: 

Patriots record: 2-2 (lost 1, won 2, lost 1)

Seahawks record: 2-2 (lost 1, won 2, lost 1)

 

2013: 

Broncos record: 2-2 (won 1, lost 2, won 1, lost 1)

Seahawks record: 4-0 (won 4)

 

2012: 

Ravens record: 2-2 (won 1, lost 1, won 1, lost 1)

Niners record: 3-1 (won 1, lost 1, won 2)

 

2011: 

Patriots record: 2-2 (won 2, lost 2)

Giants record: 2-2 (lost 1, won 1, lost 1, won 1)

 

I don't feel like going back further, but it's not like preseason is some all-important thing. That said, it does look like you want to win the 3rd since that's supposedly the most game-like of them all. It's also not comforting to have the team lose the 3rd game, but I think the starters looked sharp. They did stall but that was after Smith left. That's not good, but we'll see what happens when we get Perriman and Campanaro back. We'll also see what happens when we can actually game-plan for specific WRs rather than throwing guys in there. 

 

The secondary is a concern. I'm also concerned about the pass rush, but we'll see what happens there, too.

[ellicottraven]

its only preseason, but.... what? They'll be fine and they'll get their players back healthy for the regular season. Next week its going to be the bubble players and the players needing reps that will suit up not all the starters. So, let's take a deep breath and wait for the regular season to begin with a win.

[52520Andrew]

just like i predicted, instead of trying to make an argument that our defense has NOT historically blown close leads(when they obviously have), you argue semantics.

New Orleans goal line stand

[JoeyFlex5]

New Orleans goal line stand

true, but over the past few years it just seems that when we really need the defense to show up for 1 or 2 drives, they fail to. ill agree that our offense has to take a big part of the blame, turnovers lead to losses, but if we have the lead late in the 4th, its on the offense to not turn it over, and its on the defense to keep that lead, if the offense goes turnover free when we have a lead in the 4th quarter but the defense blows the lead anyway, i kinda dont care what happened in the first 3 quarters. 

 

i dont think you can honestly blame the offense when the defense gives up 8-12 yard completions over and over and over again like they so often seem to do in crunch time

[Moderator 3]

New Orleans goal line stand

After they blew a massive lead.

[52520Andrew]

After they blew a massive lead.

Wait, are you saying we lost that game and didn't defend that lead on a goal line stand?

[Tru11]

do people actually watch the full game or only the 4th quarter?

 

i simply dont understand why people focus on just 1 or 2 drives and totally discard all the other drives in the game.

 

if both the offense and defense play 10 drives and the defense allows only a FG and TD on the last 2 drives while the offense only managed to score on their last drive , people would still blame the defense for blowing a lead lol.

 

makes no sense at all.

 

its like 2 people working togheter and having 4 hours to finish an assignment.

1 person works hard for the first 3 hours while the other only works hard for the last hour and when they fail to make the deadline the latter is gonna blame the other person for not working hard enough that last hour lol.

[52520Andrew]

true, but over the past few years it just seems that when we really need the defense to show up for 1 or 2 drives, they fail to. ill agree that our offense has to take a big part of the blame, turnovers lead to losses, but if we have the lead late in the 4th, its on the offense to not turn it over, and its on the defense to keep that lead, if the offense goes turnover free when we have a lead in the 4th quarter but the defense blows the lead anyway, i kinda dont care what happened in the first 3 quarters.

i dont think you can honestly blame the offense when the defense gives up 8-12 yard completions over and over and over again like they so often seem to do in crunch time

It depends on the situation really but I do agree that they have blown a good number of games lately. Need to improve there but at the same time I think our secondary last year played a large part in that. 2 minute drill in general has been bad

[Tank 92]

do people actually watch the full game or only the 4th quarter?

 

i simply dont understand why people focus on just 1 or 2 drives and totally discard all the other drives in the game.

 

if both the offense and defense play 10 drives and the defense allows only a FG and TD on the last 2 drives while the offense only managed to score on their last drive , people would still blame the defense for blowing a lead lol.

 

makes no sense at all.

 

its like 2 people working togheter and having 4 hours to finish an assignment.

1 person works hard for the first 3 hours while the other only works hard for the last hour and when they fail to make the deadline the latter is gonna blame the other person for not working hard enough that last hour lol.

 

 

Nah, that analogy doesn't fly. Football, actually sports/games in general don't work that way. 

 

Let's say a team loses by 3 points.  You can't say "well if our offense had scored a TD on that drive in the first quarter we would have won by 4".  If you change an event in the course of a game there is no way to say that the events that follow would occur the same way.

 

Fact is if the score is close or tied towards the end of game what matters is how your team finishes.

[Tru11]

Nah, that analogy doesn't fly. Football, actually sports/games in general don't work that way. 

 

Let's say a team loses by 3 points.  You can't say "well if our offense had scored a TD on that drive in the first quarter we would have won by 4".  If you change an event in the course of a game there is no way to say that the events that follow would occur the same way.

 

Fact is if the score is close or tied towards the end of game what matters is how your team finishes.

 

So you and others are blaming flacco and the offense for us losing to the pats in the play offs in 2011 and 2014?

 

after all they closed out the game with an int in 2014 and a dropped pass and missed FG in 2011.

 

they had the chance to win the game for us on both occasions and failed.

they finished terrible if im going by what you guys are saying.

 

same with 2008 , 2009 and 2010 where we lost in the play offs due to the offense.

 

2010 we lost on the last drive where housh dropped a pass on 4th down on our very last drive of the game.

2009 offense scored 3 points.

2008 it was 16-14 for the steelers with 4.24 left when polamalu got a pick 6 that sealed the game.

 

the offense finished terrible in every loss we endured in the play offs  with exception of 2009 where they did not even seemed to get started lol

 

you guys gonna be objective and admit this or can i expect some double standards and thus excuses?

[redrum52]

if the defense dominates for 55 minutes it should not be a 1 score game.

the only way its a 1 score game is if the offense sucked for 55 minutes.

that is a fundamental point you are missing.

you simply cant blame a loss on 1 particular drive.

both teams have numerous drives through out a game and if both the offense and defense play great , chances are you will have a comfortable lead when the 2 minute mark approaches in the 4th quarter.

lets walk through those games:

2014

pats game, flacco had 2 picks which affected the outcome, owen danies had a crucial drop on perfect pass by flacco that should have been a TD and widen the score, refs blew 1 drive where pats did the ineligble receiver stuff.

quite frankly we still could have won this game if flacco did not throw that last int or at least had a shot if jacoby did not decided to dance wasting time on his return prior to our last possession.

not sure what 2 minute drill you are referring to TBH.

charges game

we where kicking FGs instead of getting touchdowns.

still could have won this game since all we needed was a FG but jacoby fumbled the KR which lost us time and yardage.

also did not help the coach wasted a TO on our second to last possesion cause they wanted to go for it on 4th down but then backed out of it.

1st bengals game

what 2 minute drive you talking about?

every drive the bengals had with possession of less then 2 min ended in a punt.

also did not help that the defense was holding the bengals to FGs while the offense was punting or turning the ball over for 3/4 of the game.

2nd bengals game

flacco had 0 TD and threw 2 picks but lets blame the defense lol.

certainly did not help he also threw 4 incompletions on our last drive that sealed the game....

2013

bears game

you mean the game where flacco threw 2 picks and the offense only managed a FG on 5 drives in the 2nd half?

the same where the ravens got the ball first in OT but failed to produce anything ?

you do know 1 of the bears 2 TDs was a pick 6 right?

packers game

ravens defense held rodgers to 6 points in the 1st half , offense had a whopping 0 points to counter that effort.

heck the offense managed just 3 points in the first 3 quarters lol.

defense kept the best QB in football to 16 points in that same time span and only allowed 19 points in total.

this should not have been a close game if the offense wasn't MIA through out the first 3 quarters.

steelers game

same story.

offense managed 6 points in 3 quarters.

thats 45 minutes of football where the offense was pure trash but yeah lets just blame the defense for playing bad for 2 minutes lol

if the offense actually showed up for the whole game instead of just 2 drives in the 4th quarter , these games would have been won with the way the defense held up for most of the game.

2012

eagles game

uhh we had the ball with 2 minutes left and failed to score.

how you wanna blame this on the defense?

defense forced 4 turnovers while the offense had 2.

id love to hear how you can blame the defense for this 1 lol

skins game

we had 2 turnovers + we had the ball first in OT.

worst play was the big punt return by the skins after the offense was forced to punt which set up the game winner for the skins...

steelers game.

what 2 min drive are you talking about?

this game seemed lost because our last 3 possessions where punt , fumble , punt.

dont think thats how you close out a game lol.

TBH the only game where you might have a point was the 2014 chargers game.

all other games it appears you are deliberately turning a blind eye to the picks flacco threw ( no surprise there), you fail to mention the lack of offense for pretty much most of the game and most don't even qualify for 2 minute offense failures lol

it appears you are so delusional your mind is blocking out stuff and you appear to have no clue what 2 minute drills are....

a 7 minute drive is not a 2 minute drill.....

Preach...

I'm not dismissing the defense, but those drives the Pats scored on were honestly things of beauty. That wr pass was brilliant and the ineligible non sense was a great play by BB. Let's all forget that the offense only managed 3 from the 10 minute mark in the 3rd.

But no, what you're saying doesn't fit the agenda, so it's non sense.

[redrum52]

So you and others are blaming flacco and the offense for us losing to the pats in the play offs in 2011 and 2014?

after all they closed out the game with an int in 2014 and a dropped pass and missed FG in 2011.

they had the chance to win the game for us on both occasions and failed.

they finished terrible if im going by what you guys are saying.

same with 2008 , 2009 and 2010 where we lost in the play offs due to the offense.

2010 we lost on the last drive where housh dropped a pass on 4th down on our very last drive of the game.

2009 offense scored 3 points.

2008 it was 16-14 for the steelers with 4.24 left when polamalu got a pick 6 that sealed the game.

the offense finished terrible in every loss we endured in the play offs with exception of 2009 where they did not even seemed to get started lol

you guys gonna be objective and admit this or can i expect some double standards and thus excuses?

Lmao. You already know where this going...

[Tru11]

Lmao. You already know where this going...

 

i know they wont admit it lol.

 

they simply going to neg me and either dont reply or they will reply but come with excuses or using some double standard to justify it was still the defense fault or that missed FG has nothing to do with the offense lel.

 

probably gonna have this deleted and ending up with a warning as well 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Tru11

[Tank 92]

So you and others are blaming flacco and the offense for us losing to the pats in the play offs in 2011 and 2014?

 

after all they closed out the game with an int in 2014 and a dropped pass and missed FG in 2011.

 

they had the chance to win the game for us on both occasions and failed.

they finished terrible if im going by what you guys are saying.

 

same with 2008 , 2009 and 2010 where we lost in the play offs due to the offense.

 

2010 we lost on the last drive where housh dropped a pass on 4th down on our very last drive of the game.

2009 offense scored 3 points.

2008 it was 16-14 for the steelers with 4.24 left when polamalu got a pick 6 that sealed the game.

 

the offense finished terrible in every loss we endured in the play offs  with exception of 2009 where they did not even seemed to get started lol

 

you guys gonna be objective and admit this or can i expect some double standards and thus excuses?

 

 

LMAO!!!  No question!  To be more specific........

 

2014 - Torrey Smith

 

2011 - Lee Evans

 

2010 - Housh, and if you recall Q dropped a TD in the 4th quarter as well.

 

2009 - Flacco and the O stunk it up as a whole.  There was no chance to win at the end of the PO game against the colts.

 

2008 - yeah, hair boy made a hell of a play there.  Wasn't that the same game Birk hiked the ball into his own thigh?  lol

[redrum52]

LMAO!!! No question! To be more specific........

2014 - Torrey Smith

2011 - Lee Evans

2010 - Housh, and if you recall Q dropped a TD in the 4th quarter as well.

2009 - Flacco and the O stunk it up as a whole. There was no chance to win at the end of the PO game against the colts.

2008 - yeah, hair boy made a hell of a play there. Wasn't that the same game Birk hiked the ball into his own thigh? lol

Birk signed in 09. It was the 10 playoffs against Pitt where the offense collapsed at the start of the 3rd.

I'm not going to call out Flacco, even though I still think going for it all with that much time was stupid, I think his main point is, the offense hasn't gotten it done in key monents, but we only hear about the defense giving up leads. Never the offense not finishing drives.

He actually has a really good point as well, if people are going to use that end of game situation. People will scream about 2 minutes were not holding, but how about when the offense doesn't score with the ball last? Thats not "clutch".

[Tru11]

LMAO!!!  No question!  To be more specific........

 

2014 - Torrey Smith

 

2011 - Lee Evans

 

2010 - Housh, and if you recall Q dropped a TD in the 4th quarter as well.

 

2009 - Flacco and the O stunk it up as a whole.  There was no chance to win at the end of the PO game against the colts.

 

2008 - yeah, hair boy made a hell of a play there.  Wasn't that the same game Birk hiked the ball into his own thigh?  lol

 

dude you 1 of fav posters now lel.

[gabefergy]

There should be no "but". It's preseason is literally all that matters.

[JoeyFlex5]

ok then, everyone is saying its preseason and there is no cause for concern and acting like our secondary isnt a problem, but how about this... 

 

when we are into the regular season, and the injury bug slams one of our positions, and/or every cb not named jimmy is victimized on a regular basis, ill just come back and say i told you so. if not, then you can throw it back in my face. 

[usmccharles]

All this talk about giving up leads and losing games on certain plays is insane.  Ray Lewis said it best after Cundiff missed that kick, "maybe i should of made that tackle in the third qtr."  Just remember the other team can say all the same things as we do when we beat them, it amazes me on how smart some people are in here that forget plain logic.  Chargers make an awesome comeback and beat us, part of the game.  We made a insane comeback against the cardinals, part of the game...You can literally make an argument for every team, while i have no doubt that if our secondary was healthy last year we would of been in the SB, but injuries are part of the game.  Its only preason, but.....Relax

[JoeyFlex5]

to everyone trying to make the point that there are times when our offense hasnt scored on the final drive for the comeback win, lets look at this realistically... 

 

as a defense, playing with a lead, is a beautiful thing, you know the pass is coming, you get to let your dbs cover and the front gets to pin their ears back and fly to the qb, it is the ultimate advantage for a defense KNOWING that the opposing offense has absolutely no choice but to play 1 dimensional. 

 

so why is it that everyone wants to just tell us to forget about it, and cut our defense some slack, when they absolutely stink up the joint and give away games despite having one of the best advantages in football? and in the same breath you divert the attention to the offense, who has failed to pull comeback drives late in games, even though playing 1 dimensional on offense in desperate moments is much less likely to end with positive results, than defending a lead as a defense. and the saddest part about this... is we have one of the bar none best pass rushes in the league, facing a pass rush such as the ravens, it should be nearly impossible to play us 1 dimensional, but somehow, some way, every time a team decides they are just gonna throw the ball for 25 straight snaps, they absolutely light us up.

[usmccharles]

to everyone trying to make the point that there are times when our offense hasnt scored on the final drive for the comeback win, lets look at this realistically... 

 

as a defense, playing with a lead, is a beautiful thing, you know the pass is coming, you get to let your dbs cover and the front gets to pin their ears back and fly to the qb, it is the ultimate advantage for a defense KNOWING that the opposing offense has absolutely no choice but to play 1 dimensional. 

 

so why is it that everyone wants to just tell us to forget about it, and cut our defense some slack, when they absolutely stink up the joint and give away games despite having one of the best advantages in football? and in the same breath you divert the attention to the offense, who has failed to pull comeback drives late in games, even though playing 1 dimensional on offense in desperate moments is much less likely to end with positive results, than defending a lead as a defense. and the saddest part about this... is we have one of the bar none best pass rushes in the league, facing a pass rush such as the ravens, it should be nearly impossible to play us 1 dimensional, but somehow, some way, every time a team decides they are just gonna throw the ball for 25 straight snaps, they absolutely light us up.

because our secondary is terrible.  Normally when you show a weakness, teams attack it....

Edited September 1, 2015 by usmccharles

[52520Andrew]

All this talk about giving up leads and losing games on certain plays is insane.  Ray Lewis said it best after Cundiff missed that kick, "maybe i should of made that tackle in the third qtr."

 

Yeah people love to get wrapped up on how a game ended but if one play in the 2nd was made or if as Ray said, if someone made a tackle in the 3rd quarter, it could have changed the entire situation at the end. Football is a 60 minute game, gotta play all of those minutes

Edited September 1, 2015 by 52520Andrew

[FlackAttack]

ok then, everyone is saying its preseason and there is no cause for concern and acting like our secondary isnt a problem, but how about this... 

 

when we are into the regular season, and the injury bug slams one of our positions, and/or every cb not named jimmy is victimized on a regular basis, ill just come back and say i told you so. if not, then you can throw it back in my face. 

 

enough with the flip flopping. all teams have a chance of getting attacked by the injury bug, then you come back and say "i told you so"? lol. injuries are inevitable for every team in the league. thats like saying "i told you joe flacco will throw more interceptions than touchdowns in at least one game this season",  no one in this thread has denied that there are injuries in football.

Edited September 1, 2015 by FlackAttack
rule #2

[JoeyFlex5]

because our secondary is terrible.  Normally when you show a weakness, teams attack it....

so why are people saying that the secondary is a non issue and i am just overreacting? like i said, not only can jimmy smith not cover a whole wr corps by himself, but in 4 years he has played a full season once, and is coming off a surgery that tends to be a very serious one and shouldnt be taken lightly, after jimmy, we have all question marks at cb. 

 

 

Yeah people love to get wrapped up on how a game ended but if one play in the 2nd was made or if as Ray said, if someone made a tackle in the 3rd quarter, it could have changed the entire situation at the end. Football is a 60 minute game, gotta play all of those minutes

but if a WR has a firm grip on a ball that guarantees(barring a kick return for TD) a trip to the super bowl, and somehow allows that ball to get punched out... you dont blame anything else except for that blunder, UNLESS the kicker misses a 32 yard field goal 2 plays later.. 

 

the rest of the team did their job enough to literally put the game winning touchdown catch IN THE RECEIVERS HANDS, it is his job to do one little thing there... HOLD ON to a ball he had already caught, and we are going to the super bowl, but he failed to do that. if you wanna go ahead and blame something else then go ahead, but its pretty illogical. 

[52520Andrew]

but if a WR has a firm grip on a ball that guarantees(barring a kick return for TD) a trip to the super bowl, and somehow allows that ball to get punched out... you dont blame anything else except for that blunder, UNLESS the kicker misses a 32 yard field goal 2 plays later.. 

 

the rest of the team did their job enough to literally put the game winning touchdown catch IN THE RECEIVERS HANDS, it is his job to do one little thing there... HOLD ON to a ball he had already caught, and we are going to the super bowl, but he failed to do that. if you wanna go ahead and blame something else then go ahead, but its pretty illogical. 

 

And if someone did their job earlier in the game it would not have come down to that, obviously Evans and Cundiff messed up but if they were the only ones to mess up, we would have won in a blow out. There is more to a football game than 1 play

[redrum52]

Yeah people love to get wrapped up on how a game ended but if one play in the 2nd was made or if as Ray said, if someone made a tackle in the 3rd quarter, it could have changed the entire situation at the end. Football is a 60 minute game, gotta play all of those minutes

Ding ding ding.

My beef is when the defense plays lights out for 3 quarters , the offense finally put a up points in the 4th and people get mad. Complain the lead was given up, with no mention that the only reason we were in the game, was cause they kept us in it.

[usmccharles]

so why are people saying that the secondary is a non issue and i am just overreacting? like i said, not only can jimmy smith not cover a whole wr corps by himself, but in 4 years he has played a full season once, and is coming off a surgery that tends to be a very serious one and shouldnt be taken lightly, after jimmy, we have all question marks at cb. 

 

 

 

Because this isnt anything new and you seem to be acting like it came out of nowhere.  Last year we had bad play because players were hurt, two of them are still recovering, webb will not be the webb we signed to that deal and i think everyone has accepted that.  We have a great cb in Jimmy and we have a great pass rush with Doom and Sizz (tbd this year) , we cant expect our entire defense to be a shutdown end all type of defense, we are a well  balanced team with holes...better than most id say.