The Joe Flacco Thread (merged)

[Tru11]

If the playbook changes every single year that cant happen, Most QB's thataudible WR routes have familiarity with the personall and the playbook, unfortuenately for Joe he's never had continuity.

 

lol you are saying joe is to dumb to learn a playbook this fast?

 

manning has a new HC and OC and yet he has no trouble audibling or changing routes lol

 

new OC/playbook seems like a terrible excuse cause a QB is expected to know the playbook by the time the season starts unless we talking about manziel.

Also both the OC and QB spend a whole week preparing for a game in which they should discuss what plays will be run and what should be the audibles and checks and such that should be made pre snap.

comes all down to preparation.

 

i highly doubt trestman is like cam who did not allow flacco to do anything other then run what was called.

if he is then we are in trouble.

 

also there aint much change when it comes to personell.

perriman injured and max saw few snaps.

 

other then that most have been here last season.

[Tank 92]

lol you are saying joe is to dumb to learn a playbook this fast?

 

manning has a new HC and OC and yet he has no trouble audibling or changing routes lol

 

new OC/playbook seems like a terrible excuse cause a QB is expected to know the playbook by the time the season starts unless we talking about manziel.

Also both the OC and QB spend a whole week preparing for a game in which they should discuss what plays will be run and what should be the audibles and checks and such that should be made pre snap.

comes all down to preparation.

 

i highly doubt trestman is like cam who did not allow flacco to do anything other then run what was called.

if he is then we are in trouble.

 

also there aint much change when it comes to personell.

perriman injured and max saw few snaps.

 

other then that most have been here last season.

Daniels out, Gilmore, Boyle, Williams in.

No doubt that an NFL QB can learn a play book/system quickly, but it shouldn't be hard to understand that continuity there and with receivers helps to breed another level of success. If you look at most of the top tier you'll see continuity in both.

[Tru11]

Daniels out, Gilmore, Boyle, Williams in.

No doubt that an NFL QB can learn a play book/system quickly, but it shouldn't be hard to understand that continuity there and with receivers helps to breed another level of success. If you look at most of the top tier you'll see continuity in both.

 

what does this have to do with calling audibles or hot routing?

 

if he knows the playbook he  should be able to audible or hot route regardless of who plays receiver.

[ellicottraven]

Basically one week we're like "Yeah! That's Joe Flacco!"

 

Next week we're like "...Yep....that's Joe Flacco"

That is the best description of Joe Flacco in 2 sentences that I've read. Kudos.

[beanfigger]

what does this have to do with calling audibles or hot routing?

if he knows the playbook he should be able to audible or hot route regardless of who plays receiver.

As long as the receivers pick it up and get their timing with him in camp. That seems to be an issue. Joe or the receivers or both, we have always had poor timing in the passing game.

[beanfigger]

Basically one week we're like "Yeah! That's Joe Flacco!"

Next week we're like "...Yep....that's Joe Flacco"

Week to week? Sometimes it's series to series.

[waybeyond]

Many people believe that Joe is not elite. I agree with that, but if you look back on his eight years in the league, going all the way back to his rookie season, you will see that the defense, yes that mighty Ravens defense that everybody thinks was awesome, lost a lot of game in the last minutes of regulation after Joe put the team back in the lead. Ben Rothlisberger was really good at it.

 

There were also times when his receivers let him down on game winning drives, Lee Evans, TJ Houzmensadah(sp), Owen Daniels, Derek Mason, and recently Steve SMith among others. No Joe is not Elite, and some of his decisions drive me crazy, like in Denver the Superbowl regular season among others, but he is the best QB this team has ever had. If he had real playmakers at the Wide Receiver position during all of his seasons, we'd probably all be singing a different tune. Boldin did that in the Superbowl post season, and we all know how that ended up.  The NFL is more of a team sport then any sport. Everything has to work in order for the team to win. If it doesn't, you don't win the big games that matter.

[waybeyond]

I have been known around here to critic Joe, but I still respect him a lot for some of his attributes. First of all hes probably the most durable QB off all time, behind Brett Favre. Its a blessing to this team they don't have to guess whos gonna QB every week like some of these other teams. Hes tough as nails with a big arm. He also won't cause any controversy. But some of things I don't like about him are, his feel in the pocket when the rush is around him and hes ducking and dodging when he has room to step up. His accuracy whether it be a deep ball or an easy pass he makes difficult by throwing off his back foot. The thing about his game that frustrates me the most is his accuracy at times, He has a stronger arm than more than 99 percent of the QB's in the game, but hes probably middle of the pack or lower with accuracy. He will underthrow, overthrow, or just flat out miss one to many times for my liking. And I also question his ability to recognize blitzes at times, because I seen him get sacked sometimes and he has absolutely no clue where its coming from. All in all i Feel lucky to have him as our Qb, because it was a lot worse before, so I can't be to angry at his flaws. Also I still question the drafting decisions at the receiver position with this organization.

I agree with what you say. Joe is very frustrating at times, but he seems to find another motor come playoff time.

[The Mom Gene]

THIS...  it says it all about what the expectations are...  They gave Joe $120.6 M, but they didn't give him Super Powers.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/86033/ravens-joe-flacco-faces-the-toughest-predicament-of-his-career

[1/28/01]

THIS... it says it all about what the expectations are... They gave Joe $120.6 M, but they didn't give him Super Powers.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/86033/ravens-joe-flacco-faces-the-toughest-predicament-of-his-career

This makes me want to cry! I am a Flacco realist (meaning not a "hater", nor am I an apologist), but even this is sad to read for me! Edited October 7, 2015 by 1/28/01

[beanfigger]

This makes me want to cry! I am a Flacco realist (meaning not a "hater", nor am I an apologist), but even this is sad to read for me!

Do you think this Sunday will be the hardest test for him so far in his career (in terms of surrounding cast, not opponent)? Gonna be tough to make it look pretty, but I think he has to do what the article says, take care of the ball. Hopefully, we can at least run block like last Thursday.

[1/28/01]

Do you think this Sunday will be the hardest test for him so far in his career (in terms of surrounding cast, not opponent)? Gonna be tough to make it look pretty, but I think he has to do what the article says, take care of the ball. Hopefully, we can at least run block like last Thursday.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, Kamar Aiken is the 1? And then Hurst and Wagner performing they way they are? Yikes man!

Edit - Yes, all that aside, the fumbles (holding ball with inside hand and down by his hip) and boneheaded throws don't help. Protect the ball, take whats given and just don't try and force anything a la all of 2013.

Edited October 7, 2015 by 1/28/01

[The Mom Gene]

It was VERY hard to read.  That OUR Super Bowl Caliber QB has to deal with this is very sad.  Another season under his belt with sub-par "staff" out there to catch passes....  So when people who said we needed to draft WR in the first round and we did... and now are bashing the snot out of a man they haven't even seen play because of injury??? ;And the NATIONAL media is stating this is happening???  And it's ALL TRUE!!!  Yeah, it makes me sad.

[RaineV1]

The only hope is that Givens plays angry after being traded, and that Gilmore can play like he did in Oakland (if the plays). If not, it's going to be a long day.

Edited October 7, 2015 by RaineV1

[Edgar]

Week to week? Sometimes it's series to series.

If Joe starts out hot, say 6 for 7 or. 7 for 7, it's a safe bet he will have an 0 for stretch later in that same game to balance it out.

[Tank 92]

Do you think this Sunday will be the hardest test for him so far in his career (in terms of surrounding cast, not opponent)? Gonna be tough to make it look pretty, but I think he has to do what the article says, take care of the ball. Hopefully, we can at least run block like last Thursday.

Seems he's already faced this test against pburgh. Right?

[1/28/01]

Seems he's already faced this test against pburgh. Right?

Nah, this is without Sr (most likely). To now have Aiken as the 1 automatically catapults this to the worst group he's started with. Aiken as 1 and then the current Hurst and Wagner? Yowzer!

[Tank 92]

Nah, this is without Sr (most likely). To now have Aiken as the 1 automatically catapults this to the worst group he's started with. Aiken as 1 and then the current Hurst and Wagner? Yowzer!

 

 

No Smitty for the entire 4th quarter and OT Thursday night.

 

A bit of good news in that Monroe may play.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Tank 92

[Guest]

It was VERY hard to read.  That OUR Super Bowl Caliber QB has to deal with this is very sad.  Another season under his belt with sub-par "staff" out there to catch passes....  So when people who said we needed to draft WR in the first round and we did... and now are bashing the snot out of a man they haven't even seen play because of injury??? ;And the NATIONAL media is stating this is happening???  And it's ALL TRUE!!!  Yeah, it makes me sad.

 

Flacco is a tough bird. The talk doesn't faze him. I think he can win with this cast. They need to rise to the occasion because Flacco will.

 

As WholelotofHaloti said, Flacco was winging it with this group for over a quarter last game.

[Tank 92]

Flacco is a tough bird. The talk doesn't faze him. I think he can win with this cast. They need to rise to the occasion because Flacco will.

 

As WholelotofHaloti said, Flacco was winging it with this group for over a quarter last game.

 

 

awholelottahaloti please..........ahhh the memories.  lol

 

I cringed Thursday night at the thought of what the O had to accomplish without Smitty. But both Aiken and Waller made clutch receptions when the game was on the line.  Hopefully that goes a long way with them in building confidence. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Tank 92

[BmoreBird22]

I may sound like a broken record, but Aaron Rodgers really illustrates my point about the difference between whether QBs rely more on skill position weapons or O-line. Rodgers was able to do pretty well for a few years behind a line that could not protect him well and led to him being sacked amongst the most in the league. However, he has always had receivers that were tremendous route runners, can make excellent adjustments to the ball, have outstanding hands, and are super dangerous after the catch. Take those things away from him, and I don't see him thriving nearly as much. Therefore, I think if he was here with the same weapons Joe has had his whole career, he wouldn't be close to the guy who constantly leads the league in rating and wins MVPs.

Conversely, since I've stated many times that Flacco needs protection more than anything, I think that he would certainly have been better in GB's offense over the years, but not tremendously. The lack of protection would have affected Joe out there much more than it did Rodgers.

Rodgers has consistently had a pretty good offensive line. The high amount of sacks were due largely in part to his holding onto the ball for way too long trying to make something happen. It's telling when you're near tops in the league in sacks, but not hits and pressures.

[BmoreBird22]

I hope this isn't derailing anything, but I just want to throw this out there...

 

There is plenty to be said about the situation that Rodgers was put into. He got to sit behind arguably one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history in Brett Favre for THREE years. Flacco... well... yeah. And as someone else pointed out, Tyrod may not be lighting it up in Buffalo, but he's night and day since coming into the league after sitting behind Flacco. Rivers got to sit behind Brees and that obviously worked out well. Same for Brady sitting behind Bledsoe.

 

Rodgers was able to learn from an offensive guru who worked closely with Joe Montana and actually picked up many of Montana's tendencies and taught them to Rodgers (You see how Rodgers bounces on his feet a lot and seems to throw in the air a lot? He learned that in GB from McCarthy. That was a Montana-esque style). Flacco worked with Cam Cameron, one of the most hated men in Baltimore during his time there and had a head coach who was a special teams coach and had no input into how to teach and develop Flacco.

 

Aaron Rodgers has had consistency with his offensive coaching staff that works most closely with him. I believe this was the first year that McCarthy isn't calling plays during Rodgers tenure and Rodgers has been incredibly blessed to work with Tom Clements as his quarterbacks coach until Philbin was made HC of the Dolphins, then Clements became the OC. Flacco has had Cameron, Caldwell, Kubiak, and now Trestman over the past four years. He's had a quarterbacks coach in consecutive years twice in his career. 

 

When Rodgers first became a starter, he had established veterans in Jennings, Driver, and Jones, but the Packers also drafted high picks in Nelson and Finley for Rodgers to develop with. Rodgers then had that same receiving corp, minor changes made, for the next three years, but then the Packers drafted Randall Cobb, anticipating the impending loss of Jennings and Driver in TWO years. They allowed Cobb to develop. When Jones left, the Packers spent a high pick on Devante Adams. Flacco has never had the same receiving corp for more than two years and the Ravens just now spent their second high pick (first or second rounder) on a wide receiver in eight years. 

 

Point being, Rodgers is incredibly good, no doubt, but to just say, "Rodgers would be so much better than Flacco is if the Ravens had just drafted Rodgers," is shortsighted and naive. It oversimplifies their situations and assumes all things were/are equal, which is obviously far from the truth... like REALLY far from the truth. 

 

Simply put, you can have all the talent in the world, but if your team cannot provide adequate help and development, that talent will never be realized. I don't think anyone would argue that Flacco is far less talented than Rodgers, but they'll acknowledge Rodgers is playing far better. Coaching and the team around you make a huge difference. 

[beanfigger]

Rodgers has consistently had a pretty good offensive line. The high amount of sacks were due largely in part to his holding onto the ball for way too long trying to make something happen. It's telling when you're near tops in the league in sacks, but not hits and pressures.

There were two seasons that he was sacked 50+ times. That's not all on him. His line was very poor in pass protection those years. There were other seasons where they weren't great, but no argument could be made to convince me they were any good those two years.

[BmoreBird22]

There were two seasons that he was sacked 50+ times. That's not all on him. His line was very poor in pass protection those years. There were other seasons where they weren't great, but no argument could be made to convince me they were any good those two years.

I know not everyone wants to respect PFF a lot, but they routinely rank the Packers offensive line as a top 10 offensive line. No, it's not all on Rodgers, but when you are top 10 in least amount of hits and pressures, it's very telling.

 

I can't actually comment on the first 50+ sack season, but the second, 2012, featured one of the better pass blocking offensive lines in the NFL. He had Newhouse-Lang-Saturday-Sitton-Bulaga. Obviously Newhouse was the weak link in that line and wasn't much more than serviceable, but Lang-Saturday-Sitton might have been one of the best interior offensive lines in the NFL and Sitton, while having a bit of a down year from 2011 due to injury, was still an elite talent and remains one today. Rodgers was holding onto the ball quite a bit.

Edited October 8, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[beanfigger]

I know not everyone wants to respect PFF a lot, but they routinely rank the Packers offensive line as a top 10 offensive line. No, it's not all on Rodgers, but when you are top 10 in least amount of hits and pressures, it's very telling.

I can't actually comment on the first 50+ sack season, but the second, 2012, featured one of the better pass blocking offensive lines in the NFL. He had Newhouse-Lang-Saturday-Sitton-Bulaga. Obviously Newhouse was the weak link in that line and wasn't much more than serviceable, but Lang-Saturday-Sitton might have been one of the best interior offensive lines in the NFL and Sitton, while having a bit of a down year from 2011 due to injury, was still an elite talent and remains one today. Rodgers was holding onto the ball quite a bit.

The two years I brought up were 2009 and 2012. Those years as a whole, the Packers O-line was ranked 32nd and 31st, respectively, by the stats used for that on NFL.com (combining rushing and passing). The years in between, they were ranked 19th and 21st. Our line was ranked behind them only one of those years. Their line has been much better since those years, but they were not good during that stretch. Individual PFF scores don't tell the whole story.

[BmoreBird22]

The two years I brought up were 2009 and 2012. Those years as a whole, the Packers O-line was ranked 32nd and 31st, respectively, by the stats used for that on NFL.com (combining rushing and passing). The years in between, they were ranked 19th and 21st. Our line was ranked behind them only one of those years. Their line has been much better since those years, but they were not good during that stretch. Individual PFF scores don't tell the whole story.

PFF watches every single individual snap of a player, grades it, then cumulatively adds it for each individual player, then cumulatively adds it for every single player to make a grade for the unit as a whole.

NFL.com takes gray area stats and tries to make them black and white.

 

Tell me which sounds a little more efficient and trustworthy.

 

Where did you find these NFL.com offensive line rankings? I Googled it and found a link to some stats that show rushing by direction and total sacks allowed. 

 

And just so you know, sacks are a bit of a misleading stat. If a quarterback escapes the pocket and attempts to run, but doesn't make it pass the line of scrimmage, it can get credited as a sack, so with a mobile quarterback like Rodgers who likes to run, that'll inflate those sack numbers.

Edited October 8, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[beanfigger]

PFF watches every single individual snap of a player, grades it, then cumulatively adds it for each individual player, then cumulatively adds it for every single player to make a grade for the unit as a whole.

NFL.com takes gray area stats and tries to make them black and white.

Tell me which sounds a little more efficient and trustworthy.

Where did you find these NFL.com offensive line rankings? I Googled it and found a link to some stats that show rushing by direction and total sacks allowed.

So PFF can have a couple good players with high scores "making up" for the players with poor scores, right? That's not how offensive lines work. Anyway, this is not what the thread is about. Agree to disagree, and let's move on.

[Purple_City39]

Rodgers has consistently had a pretty good offensive line. The high amount of sacks were due largely in part to his holding onto the ball for way too long trying to make something happen. It's telling when you're near tops in the league in sacks, but not hits and pressures.

Rodgers has had some pretty bad o-lines actually. 2 seasons with over 50 sacks and a season where he only played 9 games but was sacked 21 times (which is why he ended up injured).  Rodgers also takes a ton more hits.  Rodgers has rarely had good o-lines.  His scrambling ability is what saves him more often than not

[BmoreBird22]

So PFF can have a couple good players with high scores "making up" for the players with poor scores, right? That's not how offensive lines work. Anyway, this is not what the thread is about. Agree to disagree, and let's move on.

So one bad player should bring down the weight of the entire offensive line? Yeah, four good players should make up for one bad player.

[BmoreBird22]

Rodgers has had some pretty bad o-lines actually. 2 seasons with over 50 sacks and a season where he only played 9 games but was sacked 21 times (which is why he ended up injured).  Rodgers also takes a ton more hits.  Rodgers has rarely had good o-lines.  His scrambling ability is what saves him more often than not

This isn't true if you're actually watching games and it's a huge disservice to the players that they have. Lang, Sitton, and Bulaga can be considered some of the best at their positions and Linsley is quickly on the rise. While I don't think Bachktiari, or however you spell it, is amazing or some savior, he's one of the better left tackles they've had in the past few years.