The Joe Flacco Thread (merged)

[GhostofGrbac]

And as far as Edelman goes, he's had one 1,000 yard receiving season because in 2012, he played in 13 games and put up 950 yards and this year, in nine games, he had 650 yards and seven touchdowns, clearly on pace for 1,000 yards and more.

Just wanted to clear up some fallacies

 

That's all well and good, but injuries are part of the game. The fact is he's only had 1 1,000 yard season.

 

SSR was on pace for 1,000+ yards this season also. 

[52520Andrew]

Especially when I come in 12 pages late

 

I seem to have gotten into that habit a bit as well

[flynismo]

Not even just in the last 6 years, but since they returned to the NFL in 1999 they've been messing up. The only players they've gotten that actually played like first rounders for them were Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Joe Haden. They picked up a couple okay players too, but those three were really the only ones to make a big impact for the Browns. That's 3 out of 20 first round picks.

Even Haden's debateable. He's a good player, but I don't think he plays as big as his reputation. But he is far from a bust or anything, so we'll let 'em have that one...

[BmoreBird22]

That's all well and good, but injuries are part of the game. The fact is he's only had 1 1,000 yard season.

 

SSR was on pace for 1,000+ yards this season also. 

The way it was phrased made it seem like he isn't a quality receiver, but he was well on his way to being one of the top 10 receiving leaders in the league.

[BmoreBird22]

I seem to have gotten into that habit a bit as well

I just read it all and I'm like, "Forget it, I'm not replying."

[52520Andrew]

I just read it all and I'm like, "Forget it, I'm not replying."

Yeah too busy right now to keep track of everything but I still seem to try.

[GhostofGrbac]

The way it was phrased made it seem like he isn't a quality receiver, but he was well on his way to being one of the top 10 receiving leaders in the league.

 

I don't think anyone is saying he isn't a quality WR. I do think think he's a product of the system in NE though. That's not meant as a knock on him or anything. He can definitely play. They just use him in the right way. 

 

A few were saying he's much better than SSR and Boldin (when he was here). That's simply not true.

[redrum52]

I just read it all and I'm like, "Forget it, I'm not replying."

Yup.  Not worth it most the time.  Like you, I pick and choose my battles, regardless of how stupid I think some of the comments are.

[52520Andrew]

I don't think anyone is saying he isn't a quality WR. I do think think he's a product of the system in NE though. That's not meant as a knock on him or anything. He can definitely play. They just use him in the right way.

A few were saying he's much better than SSR and Boldin (when he was here). That's simply not true.

Sr even now is a great player and legit #1, I'd take him over Edelman and Boldin easily.

I think people around here vastly overrate Boldin based on the 2012 playoff run. He had some great games but was never consistent in putting them together. You make such a big deal about Edelman having only 1 1,000 yard season, Boldin never got 1,000 yards with us. The year we traded him to San Fran and after he went off in week 1, he got held to 7 yards by Sherman. SSS would never be held to that total by Sherman.

Wouldn't take Edelman over Boldin but the difference is much less than that between Gronk and Torrey.

[GhostofGrbac]

Sr even now is a great player and legit #1, I'd take him over Edelman and Boldin easily.

I think people around here vastly overrate Boldin based on the 2012 playoff run. He had some great games but was never consistent in putting them together. You make such a big deal about Edelman having only 1 1,000 yard season, Boldin never got 1,000 yards with us. The year we traded him to San Fran and after he went off in week 1, he got held to 7 yards by Sherman. SSS would never be held to that total by Sherman.

Wouldn't take Edelman over Boldin but the difference is much less than that between Gronk and Torrey.

 

I think people around here vastly overrate a few players based on the 2012 playoff run. That was just a magical run. Everything clicked at the right time and the rest is history.

 

I'm not making a big deal about Edelman and 1,000 yards. Just pointing out that for such a great receiver it's only happened once. That's all. 

 

And yeah Boldin never got 1,000 yards with us, but his 3 years here were very similar to Edelman's last 3 seasons from a production standpoint. 

[Winchester]

Edelman has a limited but specific skill set. He is shifty with reliable hands and a hard competitor. A very complex system and advanced timing assists and props his production. Not to say he is not a decent receiver. He may not of even hit the field with some teams. As for his skill set. He is smart reading coverage and shifty and will attack the ball and like I said a hard competitor and worker. However he is not very fluid, athletic or flexible in attacking the ball. I have seen him struggle to make adjustments to off target throws. My opinion, I believe Campanaro has more raw skill than Edelman. He is more fluid,athletic and flexible adjusting to throws with more straight speed. He is about as shifty as Edelman but Campanaro does it more effortlessly than Edelman!! For the money I think campanaro plays faster than Perriman!! Would not be the first time a late round pick was better than a round1 pick for the ravens. Remember Travis snailor and Brandon Stokley??!! Ravens actually let Stokley walk to keep giving pathetic Taylor oppurtunity!! If only Campanaro could avoid injuries!! He is very underrated in skill.

A younger Boldin is better than Edelman. Boldin was just underutilized here by cam. And SS is far beyond Edelmans skills!! However by his own acknowledgement he is no longer a #1. Flacco has stepped his game up working with competent coordinators now. And is getting better every week as he acclimates to Trestmans system. If SS is still a #1 would not of let him get away. He did not do much his last year In Carolina. Joe

Joe Cool is his fountain of youth!! However SS is a legit #2 caliber and by far is the best receiver to wear a ravens uniform. I do think if Campanaro and SS avoided injury and the ravens still acquired Givens that by week 13 the ravens offense would really be firing on all cylinders and top6 in scoring in the league in December!! As Joe and the receivers became more acclimated and comfortable to Trestmans scheme. And Joe built chemistry with his receivers and TEs. Only Rivers Brady Bree's and Ben are outplaying Joe right now. And Brady Ben and Bree's have legit weapons. Look at the top 10 QBs in yards other than Rivers (since allen went down)the others receivers are not comparable to the ravens raggedy group!!

[Tru11]

can you use paragraphs? 

[Winchester]

Depends on my mood, if iam in a rush, hell to the no!! But I actually did start a new paragraph?? My iPad has a virus I have to work out and is doing some bizarre stuff.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Winchester

[callahan09]

Saw on ESPN that Blake Bortles now leads the NFL in 4th quarter game-winning drives, with 4.

 

I wanted to do some research, because this statistic only counts if your teams win the game.  But sometimes your defense lets you down and you don't win the game, despite the fact that you still did lead a go-ahead drive in the 4th quarter.

 

Blake Bortles has actually led 5 go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drives this year.  That is actually only good for SECOND most this season.  Guess who has the most?

 

That's right, it's our own Joe Flacco, with 6.  The thing is, we've only won 2 out of 6 games in which we had a go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drive.

 

That means that this team has already LOST 4 games in which Flacco led a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  That's 4 "game-winning drives" taken away from him by this defense.

 

In case that doesn't sound ridiculous enough to you, let me now inform you that as far back as I can look up drive statistics (18 seasons, back to 1998), no other team has EVER in a single season lost 4 games in which they had a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  And we're only about half-way through this season!  And we already hold that dubious record.

 

In fact, we have lost 10 games in which Flacco has led a 4th quarter go-ahead drive in his career. That is the most since he entered the NFL in 2008.  We have a .630 win percentage in these games since 2008, which is 5th worst in the NFL over that span.  The NFL average over that span for the other 31 team is a .753 win percentage.

Edited November 20, 2015 by callahan09

[DomMcRaven]

Saw on ESPN that Blake Bortles now leads the NFL in 4th quarter game-winning drives, with 4.

 

I wanted to do some research, because this statistic only counts if your teams win the game.  But sometimes your defense lets you down and you don't win the game, despite the fact that you still did lead a go-ahead drive in the 4th quarter.

 

Blake Bortles has actually led 5 go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drives this year.  That is actually only good for SECOND most this season.  Guess who has the most?

 

That's right, it's our own Joe Flacco, with 6.  The thing is, we've only won 2 out of 6 games in which we had a go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drive.

 

That means that this team has already LOST 4 games in which Flacco led a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  That's 4 "game-winning drives" taken away from him by this defense.

 

In case that doesn't sound ridiculous enough to you, let me now inform you that as far back as I can look up drive statistics (18 seasons, back to 1998), no other team has EVER in a single season lost 4 games in which they had a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  And we're only about half-way through this season!  And we already hold that dubious record.

 

In fact, we have lost 10 games in which Flacco has led a 4th quarter go-ahead drive in his career. That is the most since he entered the NFL in 2008.  We have a .630 win percentage in these games since 2008, which is 5th worst in the NFL over that span.  The NFL average over that span for the other 31 team is a .753 win percentage.

Unbelievable. Again, this is sad just based on what he has to work with. 

[beanfigger]

Saw on ESPN that Blake Bortles now leads the NFL in 4th quarter game-winning drives, with 4.

 

I wanted to do some research, because this statistic only counts if your teams win the game.  But sometimes your defense lets you down and you don't win the game, despite the fact that you still did lead a go-ahead drive in the 4th quarter.

 

Blake Bortles has actually led 5 go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drives this year.  That is actually only good for SECOND most this season.  Guess who has the most?

 

That's right, it's our own Joe Flacco, with 6.  The thing is, we've only won 2 out of 6 games in which we had a go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drive.

 

That means that this team has already LOST 4 games in which Flacco led a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  That's 4 "game-winning drives" taken away from him by this defense.

 

In case that doesn't sound ridiculous enough to you, let me now inform you that as far back as I can look up drive statistics (18 seasons, back to 1998), no other team has EVER in a single season lost 4 games in which they had a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  And we're only about half-way through this season!  And we already hold that dubious record.

 

In fact, we have lost 10 games in which Flacco has led a 4th quarter go-ahead drive in his career. That is the most since he entered the NFL in 2008.  We have a .630 win percentage in these games since 2008, which is 5th worst in the NFL over that span.  The NFL average over that span for the other 31 team is a .753 win percentage.

 

We have blown every single lead we have held this season. Both wins came on last second kicks. It doesn't matter how little time we leave on the clock, if it's more than zero, than we blow it. That's just a sad fact, not a hyperbole either. However, this past game we did actually make an initial stop after taking the lead, and the offense had a chance to close it out with a few runs for a first down, but couldn't get it done. So, maybe the defense is getting there? Either way, these are startling and outrageous statistics you lay out here.

[flynismo]

A few were saying he's much better than SSR and Boldin (when he was here). That's simply not true.

 

I dont think anyone said he is better than SSS, at least not me. I said he was better than Boldin (the Boldin we had, not the AZ version).

 

I'd call SSS and Edelman a wash right now. SSS's (that was a lot of "s") hands haven't been the most reliable this year; outside of one game a few weeks ago playing with an injured hand, Edelman has been catching everything.

[flynismo]

A few were saying he's much better than SSR and Boldin (when he was here). That's simply not true.

 

I dont think anyone said he is better than SSS, at least not me. I said he was better than Boldin (the Boldin we had, not the AZ version).

 

I'd call SSS and Edelman a wash right now. SSS's (that was a lot of "s") hands haven't been the most reliable this year; outside of one game a few weeks ago playing with an injured hand, Edelman has been catching everything.

[flynismo]

Saw on ESPN that Blake Bortles now leads the NFL in 4th quarter game-winning drives, with 4.

 

I wanted to do some research, because this statistic only counts if your teams win the game.  But sometimes your defense lets you down and you don't win the game, despite the fact that you still did lead a go-ahead drive in the 4th quarter.

 

Blake Bortles has actually led 5 go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drives this year.  That is actually only good for SECOND most this season.  Guess who has the most?

 

That's right, it's our own Joe Flacco, with 6.  The thing is, we've only won 2 out of 6 games in which we had a go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drive.

 

That means that this team has already LOST 4 games in which Flacco led a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  That's 4 "game-winning drives" taken away from him by this defense.

 

In case that doesn't sound ridiculous enough to you, let me now inform you that as far back as I can look up drive statistics (18 seasons, back to 1998), no other team has EVER in a single season lost 4 games in which they had a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  And we're only about half-way through this season!  And we already hold that dubious record.

 

In fact, we have lost 10 games in which Flacco has led a 4th quarter go-ahead drive in his career. That is the most since he entered the NFL in 2008.  We have a .630 win percentage in these games since 2008, which is 5th worst in the NFL over that span.  The NFL average over that span for the other 31 team is a .753 win percentage.

I could have sworn Flacco had 5 last-minute losses this year, not 4...either way, very disheartening to read that. This team needs to get it's act together

Edited November 21, 2015 by flynismo

[arnie_uk]

I could have sworn Flacco had 5 last-minute losses this year, not 4...either way, very disheartening to read that. This team needs to get it's act together

the Broncos is probably the other your thinking off. That wasn't the defenses fault. If you want to pin it on anyone, blame SSS

[redrum52]

Saw on ESPN that Blake Bortles now leads the NFL in 4th quarter game-winning drives, with 4.

 

I wanted to do some research, because this statistic only counts if your teams win the game.  But sometimes your defense lets you down and you don't win the game, despite the fact that you still did lead a go-ahead drive in the 4th quarter.

 

Blake Bortles has actually led 5 go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drives this year.  That is actually only good for SECOND most this season.  Guess who has the most?

 

That's right, it's our own Joe Flacco, with 6.  The thing is, we've only won 2 out of 6 games in which we had a go-ahead 4th quarter scoring drive.

 

That means that this team has already LOST 4 games in which Flacco led a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  That's 4 "game-winning drives" taken away from him by this defense.

 

In case that doesn't sound ridiculous enough to you, let me now inform you that as far back as I can look up drive statistics (18 seasons, back to 1998), no other team has EVER in a single season lost 4 games in which they had a 4th quarter go-ahead scoring drive.  And we're only about half-way through this season!  And we already hold that dubious record.

 

In fact, we have lost 10 games in which Flacco has led a 4th quarter go-ahead drive in his career. That is the most since he entered the NFL in 2008.  We have a .630 win percentage in these games since 2008, which is 5th worst in the NFL over that span.  The NFL average over that span for the other 31 team is a .753 win percentage.

Taking a lead in the 4th doesn't mean much.  How much time is left in those games and what's the lead?

 

And if the defense is expected to always stop, why isn't the offense expected to score?  The Bengals, Browns and Jags game, had the the offense executed, like most expect the defense to, we could and should've won those games.

[1/28/01]

Taking a lead in the 4th doesn't mean much. How much time is left in those games and what's the lead?

And if the defense is expected to always stop, why isn't the offense expected to score? The Bengals, Browns and Jags game, had the the offense executed, like most expect the defense to, we could and should've won those games.

Anyone can find stats or probabilities to skew the outcome of games. It's a common thing with Flacco apologists. This a game. Every player deals with the same stuff; drops, failing olines, poor run games, changing coordinators etc. They shouldnt be excuses to show what could have happened differently. Or, if they are that's cool, but it goes both ways.

Just as many losses attributed to the defense this year could likely be contributed to Flacco and/or the offense. Every team goes through it, some more than others (yes, some teams and QBs have failing aspects of their team more than ours). I love Callahans stats, but they are almost always show what could have been and to boost Flacco in some way or another.

[flynismo]

the Broncos is probably the other your thinking off. That wasn't the defenses fault. If you want to pin it on anyone, blame SSS

Nah, wasn't that one; and I do blame SSS (85%) and Flacco (15%) for that game

[1/28/01]

Nah, wasn't that one; and I do blame SSS (85%) and Flacco (15%) for that game

I don't recall 100%, but was the throw tipped a little?

[flynismo]

Anyone can find stats or probabilities to skew the outcome of games. It's a common thing with Flacco apologists. This a game. Every player deals with the same stuff; drops, failing olines, poor run games, changing coordinators etc. They shouldnt be excuses to show what could have happened differently. Or, if they are that's cool, but it goes both ways.

Just as many losses attributed to the defense this year could likely be contributed to Flacco and/or the offense. Every team goes through it, some more than others (yes, some teams and QBs have failing aspects of their team more than ours). I love Callahans stats, but they are almost always show what could have been and to boost Flacco in some way or another.

 

This season? No way. But your underlying point is still right. Stats can tell whatever story you want them to tell.

[1/28/01]

This season? No way. But your underlying point is still right. Stats can tell whatever story you want them to tell.

Eh, more of an "as a whole" sorta thing. Shouldn't have said this year specifically.

Edited November 21, 2015 by 1/28/01

[flynismo]

I don't recall 100%, but was the throw tipped a little?

It literally grazed the DB's pinky; it didn't look to change the trajectory of the ball or anything...but it's cool by me because even though SSS and Flacco didn't do enough for my liking that week, they are the only thing standing between us and a 0-9 record right now

[1/28/01]

It literally grazed the DB's pinky; it didn't look to change the trajectory of the ball or anything...but it's cool by me because even though SSS and Flacco didn't do enough for my liking that week, they are the only thing standing between us and a 0-9 record right now

Gotcha and agree there.

[flynismo]

Taking a lead in the 4th doesn't mean much.  How much time is left in those games and what's the lead?

 

And if the defense is expected to always stop, why isn't the offense expected to score?  The Bengals, Browns and Jags game, had the the offense executed, like most expect the defense to, we could and should've won those games.

It is a bit of a double standard. We expect the offense to mount a lead whenever they can at some point in the 4th, then we expect the defense to hold it the rest of the way regardless of amount of time left.

 

But this season at least, his point is valid, quite a few, if not every single one of, our losses came on the very last offensive drive of the game

[redrum52]

Anyone can find stats or probabilities to skew the outcome of games. It's a common thing with Flacco apologists. This a game. Every player deals with the same stuff; drops, failing olines, poor run games, changing coordinators etc. They shouldnt be excuses to show what could have happened differently. Or, if they are that's cool, but it goes both ways.

Just as many losses attributed to the defense this year could likely be contributed to Flacco and/or the offense. Every team goes through it, some more than others (yes, some teams and QBs have failing aspects of their team more than ours). I love Callahans stats, but they are almost always show what could have been and to boost Flacco in some way or another.

To your first point, THANK YOU.  People pick and choose when stats want to be used.  The game for the most part can't be based on stats.  They can give you an idea, but not the whole picture.  People will come to defend these what if stats for offense, but I remember Pees saying if it wasn't for 6 or 7 plays, the defense would be rated 7th.  People were quick to shoot that down, saying ifs don't cut it.  

 

And it almost ALWAYS seems that way with the bolded.

It literally grazed the DB's pinky; it didn't look to change the trajectory of the ball or anything...but it's cool by me because even though SSS and Flacco didn't do enough for my liking that week, they are the only thing standing between us and a 0-9 record right now

 

I'm praying SSS comes back, just more time.  He was on pace for a MONSTER season and would just be great to have him tutor Perriman when he's actually on the field.

It is a bit of a double standard. We expect the offense to mount a lead whenever they can at some point in the 4th, then we expect the defense to hold it the rest of the way regardless of amount of time left.

 

But this season at least, his point is valid, quite a few, if not every single one of, our losses came on the very last offensive drive of the game

All I ask for is accountability.  You my friend... You're the real MVP.  I feel like I can rest well tonight.