The Joe Flacco Thread (merged)

[flynismo]

My biggest issue is he has to be virtually perfect for us to win. That's the front offices fault.

My next biggest issue, is everyone knows flacco can be virtually perfect, but never quite reaches it until December January.

It's infuriating at times, but hes he the least of our worries.

I have a theory about why Flacco is inconsistent early in the year, then gets better as the season progresses, and ultimately puts it all together at the end of the year/postseason.

I think it is a reflection of the instability/inconsistency of the offensive scheme itself. A new OC and scheme every single year will do that, and it takes time to adjust. Of course, it doesn't explain the occasional knucklehead pass attempt, but it would explain a heck of a lot

[K-Dog]

. Of course, it doesn't explain the occasional knucklehead pass attempt,

 

 

Trying too hard ? :shrugs: 

[3-4ravdef509]

I get what you are saying, but I have been talking about his deep ball since his rookie year...look at how amazingly accurate those bombs were to Clayton, Boldin and occasionally Mason....three guys who ran good routes. Then when guys like Torrey show up, who is notoriously bad at tracking passes, and a poor route runner overall -- not a coincidence that his bombs suddenly appear to be wildly inconsistent

I do believe that contributed to the problem. But I think it's less an accuracy thing and more a mental thing. He's been very inconsistent on the deep ball, throwing lobs when he should zip it and vice versa.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

He just needs to stop the deep ball throws and fades into the EZ. He cant throw either!

His sideline, back shoulder and short 15-20 yard passes are money!

 

Joe threw a perfect ball to Lee Evans in the end zone. It was dropped and cost us a trip to the SB in 2011. Joe threw a perfect ball to Steve Smith at the goal line against the Broncos this year. It was dropped. It is hard to throw fades to receivers who are 5"-9" or receivers like Kamar Aiken who missed catching a great throw yesterday. As for deep throws, Joe has one of the best deep balls in the business. The desperation throw yesterday to a rookie TE speaks volumes. Joe chose to throw a long, deep bomb to Max Williams rather than to throw to a wide open Marlon Brown or Kamar Aiken. The rookie TE was able to stretch the field and Joe also had more confidence that he would catch the ball. That is a sad commentary on our #2 & #3 receivers who virtually gave Steve Smith no help. The combination of TEs, running backs and Michael Campanero had more catches than the #2 & #3 receivers. Joe does the best he can throwing the ball to a bunch of under-achievers. Right now, his best options are Steve Smith, then SSS and then Steve Smith again. Mr. Smith has the heart of a lion!    

[flynismo]

I do believe that contributed to the problem. But I think it's less an accuracy thing and more a mental thing. He's been very inconsistent on the deep ball, throwing lobs when he should zip it and vice versa.

If we are talking this season in particular, I agree. In fact, I feel his accuracy overall has been inconsistent for whatever reason. One minute he is practically psychic in his placement, the very next pass will be three feet off. It is maddening, and I have yet to determine if there is a reason for it. Reading between the lines, he and SSS seem to be implying it is the inexperience of our receivers showing up, but a few passes come to mind where it was a straight up off target throw....so....I dunno

[flynismo]

Joe threw a perfect ball to Lee Evans in the end zone. It was dropped and cost us a trip to the SB in 2011. Joe threw a perfect ball to Steve Smith at the goal line against the Broncos this year. It was dropped. It is hard to throw fades to receivers who are 5"-9" or receivers like Kamar Aiken who missed catching a great throw yesterday. As for deep throws, Joe has one of the best deep balls in the business. The desperation throw yesterday to a rookie TE speaks volumes. Joe chose to throw a long, deep bomb to Max Williams rather than to throw to a wide open Marlon Brown or Kamar Aiken. The rookie TE was able to stretch the field and Joe also had more confidence that he would catch the ball. That is a sad commentary on our #2 & #3 receivers who virtually gave Steve Smith no help. The combination of TEs, running backs and Michael Campanero had more catches than the #2 & #3 receivers. Joe does the best he can throwing the ball to a bunch of under-achievers. Right now, his best options are Steve Smith, then SSS and then Steve Smith again. Mr. Smith has the heart of a lion!

That particular pass looked to me like an iso route for Maxx, which is probably why Flacco rolled out to his right immediately...whether by design or not, Maxx was the only realistic target on that play.....you don't ever throw a ball 30 yards upfield and across the field, especially with all those DBs back there, that is a pick six waiting to happen.

That said, it was a hell of a pass. Great example of Flacco's deep ball...was just too tough a catch to make because he was so well covered

[frozen joe flacco fan]

That particular pass looked to me like an iso route for Maxx, which is probably why Flacco rolled out to his right immediately...whether by design or not, Maxx was the only realistic target on that play.....you don't ever throw a ball 30 yards upfield and across the field, especially with all those DBs back there, that is a pick six waiting to happen.

That said, it was a hell of a pass. Great example of Flacco's deep ball...was just too tough a catch to make because he was so well covered

 

Well said! While Marlon Brown was wide open across the field, it would have been very risky for Joe to throw the ball across his body. He and a young John Elway are two of the only QBs I've ever seen that have that kind of arm strength but it still isn't the best idea. Joe can throw the ball close to 70 yards off his back foot. He's gifted. He just needs some speed-burners to catch the deep balls.  

[beanfigger]

My biggest issue is he has to be virtually perfect for us to win. That's the front offices fault.

My next biggest issue, is everyone knows flacco can be virtually perfect, but never quite reaches it until December January.

It's infuriating at times, but hes he the least of our worries.

If he makes one mistake during a game, the team is on the ropes. Two mistakes, and we lose, guaranteed. Therefore, I agree with you 100%.

[TuckerTime9]

It really makes you wonder just how great Flacco could be with a calvin johnson, aj green, gronk. Everyone is really down on Perriman right now but I think we can all agree he has the ceiling of those guys. Perriman has all the talent in the world, we just have to see if he and the ravens will put it to good use.

[1/28/01]

Joe threw a perfect ball to Lee Evans in the end zone. It was dropped and cost us a trip to the SB in 2011. Joe threw a perfect ball to Steve Smith at the goal line against the Broncos this year. It was dropped. It is hard to throw fades to receivers who are 5"-9" or receivers like Kamar Aiken who missed catching a great throw yesterday. As for deep throws, Joe has one of the best deep balls in the business. The desperation throw yesterday to a rookie TE speaks volumes. Joe chose to throw a long, deep bomb to Max Williams rather than to throw to a wide open Marlon Brown or Kamar Aiken. The rookie TE was able to stretch the field and Joe also had more confidence that he would catch the ball. That is a sad commentary on our #2 & #3 receivers who virtually gave Steve Smith no help. The combination of TEs, running backs and Michael Campanero had more catches than the #2 & #3 receivers. Joe does the best he can throwing the ball to a bunch of under-achievers. Right now, his best options are Steve Smith, then SSS and then Steve Smith again. Mr. Smith has the heart of a lion!

The ball to Evans (which was 4 years ago) was a perfectly thrown back shoulder throw, so thanks for assisting with my point. As for his deep ball, sheesh. You're just one of those guys who mistakes the ability to throw it 75 yards as having a great deep ball. Statistically and with the simple eye test, he does not have a great deep ball. His accuracy deep is very poor and has been underthrowing receivers for years. He lofts the ball and puts way too much air under just about every deep pass.

Edit - And which great throw to Aiken? His only throw to Aiken was into triple coverage and yet again, was underthrown. Please tell me you're not talking about that throw. Please! If you are, then any debate with you regarding Flacco is obviously not fair and completely pointless.

[1/28/01]

Well said! While Marlon Brown was wide open across the field, it would have been very risky for Joe to throw the ball across his body. He and a young John Elway are two of the only QBs I've ever seen that have that kind of arm strength but it still isn't the best idea. Joe can throw the ball close to 70 yards off his back foot. He's gifted. He just needs some speed-burners to catch the deep balls.

And you know, hit a receiver in stride on those deeps balls...or at least make it so they don't have to essentially come to a screeching halt.

[3-4ravdef509]

And you know, hit a receiver in stride on those deeps balls...or at least make it so they don't have to essentially come to a screeching halt.

It's weird because, to me, it's like his accuracy has regressed when throwing deep. It wasn't always as bad as it has been at times for the past three years

I'm sure personnel and timing play a factor, but sometimes Joe just flat out misses a guy deep, and it's so much like he just missed them, it's like he threw the ball too late, or just throws it really high and it takes too long to come back down

[The Mom Gene]

I do believe that contributed to the problem. But I think it's less an accuracy thing and more a mental thing. He's been very inconsistent on the deep ball, throwing lobs when he should zip it and vice versa.

As they were saying the other day...  It has to do with confidence.  I would say he probably isn't as confident in "knowing" that the ball is going to be caught.  He's been dead on with Steve Smith.

[1/28/01]

As they were saying the other day... It has to do with confidence. I would say he probably isn't as confident in "knowing" that the ball is going to be caught. He's been dead on with Steve Smith.

He certainly fights for the ball more, that's for sure. So did Boldin, which is what helped with the massive misconception that Flacco has a deadly and accurate deep ball. It is an actual fact that he is middle of the pack on deep ball accuracy (and some years bottom 5). Those who ignore facts, that's cool. Whatever floats their boat. I have stated what throws Joe excels with and which he does not.

[hawkprey]

A few years ago, the NFL changed the spot of the refs to crack down on offensive holding. NO qb is comfortable having their back to the defense from under center anymore. Look at what happened to Schaub and Peyton when they played Kubiak's style. Joe was the only QB last year to play a significant number of snaps from under center, and considering that fact, he's played pretty well. When we put him in shotgun he's a much better QB - as anyone would be.

[beanfigger]

And you know, hit a receiver in stride on those deeps balls...or at least make it so they don't have to essentially come to a screeching halt.

Like that last pass yesterday? He has certainly gotten in the habit of under throwing receivers deep, but some of it might be that he knows there is a better chance of getting the yardage from PI than actually catching it.

When he has to rely on receivers and not the refs late in games, I feel like his accuracy gets better. However, it doesn't always work out. Jacoby against the Jets a couple years ago was caught. Torrey against the Colts last year on fourth down (though not super deep) was dropped. A few years ago against the Steelers, he threw two great deep balls to Torrey, one dropped and one caught. This Sunday, I don't know where else the ball had to be for Max, but he just fell on his face instead of continuing to run and let it fall into his hands.

So yes, he is very sporadic with his deep accuracy, but it does seem to improve in crunch time. And yes, it does help when you have receivers that fight for the ball (like most of the top QBs have), like Senior and Boldin. Since we rarely get guys that actually get open, they might as well give a nice effort to make the catch.

[Perfekt]

I agree for the most part that Flacco isn't the blame. I think Flacco makes some bonehead throws but he is a great QB not elite. His deep throw isn't great but its not the Boller era either. Flacco needs the running game and the O-line to step up and then maybe people will see how good this offense can be.

 

This years main problem is our Defense. It is true that the offense with its 3 and out problem makes it worst but still no excuse for all the lack of effort displayed thus far. I'm all for heads rolling if that is what needs to done.

 

Side note Marlon Brown is better then most think but he needs to be given his shots. Aiken to me just isn't the guy we think he is. He is tough but at best he is a guy you bring in to spell your starter for a series or two.

[1/28/01]

Like that last pass yesterday? He has certainly gotten in the habit of under throwing receivers deep, but some of it might be that he knows there is a better chance of getting the yardage from PI than actually catching it.

When he has to rely on receivers and not the refs late in games, I feel like his accuracy gets better. However, it doesn't always work out. Jacoby against the Jets a couple years ago was caught. Torrey against the Colts last year on fourth down (though not super deep) was dropped. A few years ago against the Steelers, he threw two great deep balls to Torrey, one dropped and one caught. This Sunday, I don't know where else the ball had to be for Max, but he just fell on his face instead of continuing to run and let it fall into his hands.

So yes, he is very sporadic with his deep accuracy, but it does seem to improve in crunch time. And yes, it does help when you have receivers that fight for the ball (like most of the top QBs have), like Senior and Boldin. Since we rarely get guys that actually get open, they might as well give a nice effort to make the catch.

Yeah, receivers drop balls. Doesnt change the fact that his passes are routinely off when throwing deep or attempting a fade to the EZ.

[Dr. Kelley]

He certainly fights for the ball more, that's for sure. So did Boldin, which is what helped with the massive misconception that Flacco has a deadly and accurate deep ball. It is an actual fact that he is middle of the pack on deep ball accuracy (and some years bottom 5). Those who ignore facts, that's cool. Whatever floats their boat. I have stated what throws Joe excels with and which he does not. Some are too blind to admit if the guy has any flaws or not.

Serious tangent question, how do they determine deep ball accuracy for this statistic?

[1/28/01]

Serious tangent question, how do they determine deep ball accuracy for this statistic?

Same way they do with overall accuracy, but most just use throws over 20 are "deep ball throws". Some would argue 30 or even 40 would be a better mark to use to determine a "deep" ball, but that's what they all mostly use at this time, 20+.

[beanfigger]

Yeah, receivers drop balls. Doesnt change the fact that his passes are routinely off when throwing deep or attempting a fade to the EZ.

I agree. I would like to see the team work on a new approach. Perhaps find out if anyone on the team can run double moves or complex route combinations and try some timing deep routes. It always seems that when Flacco throws deep it is a last resort, hope for a miracle because no one is open throw. He's often on the scramble at that point or has been dancing around. Maybe the throws would connect more if his feet were set and he was preparing to throw it where he ends up throwing it. I would hope so.

[1/28/01]

I agree. I would like to see the team work on a new approach. Perhaps find out if anyone on the team can run double moves or complex route combinations and try some timing deep routes. It always seems that when Flacco throws deep it is a last resort, hope for a miracle because no one is open throw. He's often on the scramble at that point or has been dancing around. Maybe the throws would connect more if his feet were set and he was preparing to throw it where he ends up throwing it. I would hope so.

I can agree with this. His footwork and mechanics just don't look sound right now.

[TSizzle00]

If the Ravens had Julio Jones or any number of top 5 WRs they would of beaten NE and probably won another SB.(Altho you can argue the WRs did a lot to beat NE last season but the secondary choked). Flacco has not had a single consistent weapon year in and year out like most top QBs have had.

[GhostofGrbac]

I can agree with this. His footwork and mechanics just don't look sound right now.

 

I agree. His mechanics are the worst I've seen during his career. He's constantly throwing off his back foot, and missing easy throws because of it. The 3rd down pass at SSR's feet is a perfect example. That's an easy completion for a 1st down that he has to make. 

 

Now I know people will blame the OL, but outside of the Denver game he hasn't been sacked. In fact the Ravens OL for as bad as they have been at times, have only given up the 2nd fewest sacks, and the 6th fewest QB hits (13). 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

The ball to Evans (which was 4 years ago) was a perfectly thrown back shoulder throw, so thanks for assisting with my point. As for his deep ball, sheesh. You're just one of those guys who mistakes the ability to throw it 75 yards as having a great deep ball. Statistically and with the simple eye test, he does not have a great deep ball. His accuracy deep is very poor and has been underthrowing receivers for years. He lofts the ball and puts way too much air under just about every deep pass.

Edit - And which great throw to Aiken? His only throw to Aiken was into triple coverage and yet again, was underthrown. Please tell me you're not talking about that throw. Please! If you are, then any debate with you regarding Flacco is obviously not fair and completely pointless.

Give the devil his due, man! Joe makes throws other QBs in the league can only dream about. Even the

commentators who were former NFL QBs rave about his arm. Sheesh, I never said he was the most

accurate thrower in the league's history. Some dink & dunk QB like Joe Montana probably owns that

distinction.

Thinking back on it, you may be right about the throw to Aiken. The one I was referring to was a throw across the middle to one of our premier wide receivers. I get them confused. It might have been

Marlon Brown who Joe hit in full stride and Marlon blinked at the orange jerseys in front of him.

Anyway, it was a throw that a pro WR has to catch and there is no excuse for not catching it. An

astute student of the game like you would have to agree, right?

[frozen joe flacco fan]

And you know, hit a receiver in stride on those deeps balls...or at least make it so they don't have to essentially come to a screeching halt.

I agree. I didn't like the throw Joe made in the SB to JJ in 2012 but I did like the result. That being said, Colin Capernick could not have tossed an under-thrown ball that far.

[Cillmatic]

It really makes you wonder just how great Flacco could be with a calvin johnson, aj green, gronk. Everyone is really down on Perriman right now but I think we can all agree he has the ceiling of those guys. Perriman has all the talent in the world, we just have to see if he and the ravens will put it to good use.

Steve's better.

[1/28/01]

Give the devil his due, man! Joe makes throws other QBs in the league can only dream about. Even the

commentators who were former NFL QBs rave about his arm. Sheesh, I never said he was the most

accurate thrower in the league's history. Some dink & dunk QB like Joe Montana probably owns that

distinction.

Thinking back on it, you may be right about the throw to Aiken. The one I was referring to was a throw across the middle to one of our premier wide receivers. I get them confused. It might have been

Marlon Brown who Joe hit in full stride and Marlon blinked at the orange jerseys in front of him.

Anyway, it was a throw that a pro WR has to catch and there is no excuse for not catching it. An

astute student of the game like you would have to agree, right?

And yes, I agree when there is a drop it needs to be caught. At least I can agree to that. You cannot and will not agree that Joe needs substantial work on various throws (deep ball and fades as examples), but tend to only throw out contestable statements like he is the envy of all QBs with certain throws and that he is a top 3 QB in the game. Do you see that his footwork and mechanics are abysmal this year?

[Guest]

The best receiver Flacco has ever had is anquan... as great as Anquan was it really makes you wonder just how great Flacco could be with a calvin johnson, aj green, gronk. Everyone is really down on Perriman right now but I think we can all agree he has the ceiling of those guys. Perriman has all the talent in the world, we just have to see if he and the ravens will put it to good use.

 

Hallelujah, you are a knower who knows.  He could trust Anquan to be where he was supposed to be and break to the proper zone when the place he was supposed to be was not the place to be.  Steve Smith brings him that same security in a smaller package.

It's weird because, to me, it's like his accuracy has regressed when throwing deep. It wasn't always as bad as it has been at times for the past three years

I'm sure personnel and timing play a factor, but sometimes Joe just flat out misses a guy deep, and it's so much like he just missed them, it's like he threw the ball too late, or just throws it really high and it takes too long to come back down

 

It's his deep ball that is most accurate. When Flacco can step into a deep one its a rifle. It's the back foot throws under pressure he sometimes struggles with.

As they were saying the other day...  It has to do with confidence.  I would say he probably isn't as confident in "knowing" that the ball is going to be caught.  He's been dead on with Steve Smith.

 

Absolutely. His other WR's haven't given much reason to trust them.

I agree for the most part that Flacco isn't the blame. I think Flacco makes some bonehead throws but he is a great QB not elite. His deep throw isn't great but its not the Boller era either. Flacco needs the running game and the O-line to step up and then maybe people will see how good this offense can be.

 

This years main problem is our Defense. It is true that the offense with its 3 and out problem makes it worst but still no excuse for all the lack of effort displayed thus far. I'm all for heads rolling if that is what needs to done.

 

Side note Marlon Brown is better then most think but he needs to be given his shots. Aiken to me just isn't the guy we think he is. He is tough but at best he is a guy you bring in to spell your starter for a series or two.

 

Flacco has weaknesses some don't have. But he has strengths so called "Elites" don't possess either.

He certainly fights for the ball more, that's for sure. So did Boldin, which is what helped with the massive misconception that Flacco has a deadly and accurate deep ball. It is an actual fact that he is middle of the pack on deep ball accuracy (and some years bottom 5). Those who ignore facts, that's cool. Whatever floats their boat. I have stated what throws Joe excels with and which he does not. Some are too blind to admit if the guy has any flaws or not.

 

He has flaws but you are mistaken regarding his deep ball.  It's too bad they don't all line up and fire at a tire 65 yards downfield.

Steve's better.

Steve's smaller, but hes a load.  The funny thing is Flacco seems to like receivers that can't crack 4.8 seconds in the forty any longer.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Danny D

[1/28/01]

I agree. I didn't like the throw Joe made in the SB to JJ in 2012 but I did like the result. That being said, Colin Capernick could not have tossed an under-thrown ball that far.

I don't like Keapernick at all, but yes he could. He has a cannon. Cannon meaning he can throw it far, just not accurately.

Little excerpt from PFF about 2012 and 2013 (granted, 2013 was a down year).

Highlighting the myth about Flacco’s arm, the Ravens’ signal caller had the second worst Deep Accuracy of any quarterback in 2013, and had just one touchdown and eight interceptions. This comes a year after his 11 touchdowns and zero interceptions lead to claims that he was the best deep thrower in the league, despite finishing 18th with a Deep Acc% of 40.2% in 2012. Still, his accuracy on deep passes dropped by 14.1% in 2013, with only Jake Locker (23.3%) finishing with a lower mark.