[News] Late For Work 8/25: Will Steve Smith Retire A Raven Or Panther? His Strong Reply

[bioLarzen]

"(...) Ngata told Tim Twentyman of the Lions website"

 

... and a journalist with that name doesn't do an interview with Ed Reed... Where is this world coming to???

[Space11jams]

Ngata can't take that type of attitude like we didn't want him. We've been trying to strike a deal for so long and the Ravens isn't going to pay a declining player. His level of play has peaked and we want to pay him for what he can do not what he's done. We didn't get rid of him because we didn't want him. We traded him because we couldn't afford him. That's two different scenarios. Of course we wanted to keep the big fellow but he was a expensive luxury. We don't have Miami money to throw at players.

[The Mom Gene]

1. The amount Ngata was set to get paid was $8.5M. No realistic person thinks thats an absurd price to play for the level of player that Ngata is at this point in his career. The $8.5M is the exact amount the Lions are paying him this year currently, which again, I don't think anybody believes is an unrealistic amount for one season.

 

2  We largely have zero information about what long-term negotiations took place and what numbers were exchanged. The only way to lower Ngata's cap hit in the short term (other than him taking a straight one year pay cut, which was never a realistic option) was to sign him to an extension, because he was in the final year of his deal anyway. In doing so, we would have to guaranteed a good chunk of money for the next 2-3  years for him, and are we really certain that the Ravens were interested in doing that?

 

3. In general, I almost always support players maximizing to the highest level the amount of money they get from teams, particularly when it comes to guaranteed money and guaranteed years. We know the NFL has no issue cutting high priced players on an annual basis for whatever reason they want, and I'd never encourage a player to take the  approach of "hey, just take a bunch of money less and stay here and win a title". For starters, that's certainly not realistic for Ngata, because that would fall under the "been there, done that" mantra, and I also ignore the fact that there is no shortage of teams who could pay him well AND be a contender for a title. The two don't necessarily have to be a trade-off.

 

 It was a standard business transaction that two sides simply couldn't agree on.

Except that they (Detroit) lost Suh... who was due to make a boat ton more.

[bioLarzen]

1. The amount Ngata was set to get paid was $8.5M. No realistic person thinks thats an absurd price to play for the level of player that Ngata is at this point in his career. The $8.5M is the exact amount the Lions are paying him this year currently, which again, I don't think anybody believes is an unrealistic amount for one season.

 

But you know that it's not the sheer figure that counts, but also how it can be crammed under the cap limit. No wonder a lot of better teams didn't tade for Ngata - because that 8.5 million would have been too much for them - just as for us. Not because Ngata isn't worth that money, but because they - we - don't have it. 

 

Imagine someone offered you the latest Ferrari for 80 thousand dollars - but you can't get the money on loan, you can only use your own money. Would it be a great deal? Of course. Can you afford it?

 

The Ravens couldn't afford Ngata. Here's hoping you could afford that Ferrari

Edited August 25, 2015 by bioLarzen

[rmcjacket23]

But you know that it's not the sheer figure that counts, but also how it can be crammed under the cap limit. No wonder a lot of better teams didn't tade for Ngata - because that 8.5 million would have been too much for them - just as for us. Not because Ngata isn't worth that money, but because they - we - don't have it. 

 

Imagine someone offered you the latest Ferrari for 80 thousand dollars - but you can't get the money on loan, you can only use your own money. Would it be a great deal? Of course. Can you afford it?

 

The Ravens couldn't afford Ngata. Here's hoping you could afford that Ferrari

True, but just like we could, they could sign him to an extension that increased, decreased, or kept his $8.5M cap number as it is... thats entirely up to the team that traded for him.

 

While we had a similar luxury, we also had a $7.5M cap hit for him that we couldn't possibly get rid of due to his previous signing bonus, so we are already that much behind the eight-ball when compared to other teams.

 

Or, put more simply... if Ngata's cap hit for 2015 for the Ravens was $8.5M instead of $16M, does anybody think he wouldn't be here right now?

[rmcjacket23]

Except that they (Detroit) lost Suh... who was due to make a boat ton more.

OK... and? All that means is that they had a need for such a player and filled it.

 

Has no impact on why he is or isn't a Raven any longer.

[Drew P]

LT sidelined "A few weeks" the translation "a few months".

[rmcjacket23]

i wonder what ngata was thinking when he saw suggs restructure his contract what was it twice? did he think suggs was insisting on being with an organization that were low key trying to get rid of him?.... He truly was a huge loss and its sad if after all his years at this organization he truly thinks that.

Completely different scenarios though...

 

1. There's only one possible way to restructure a contract that only has one year left on it... its called taking a paycut. No person thinks Ngata should have taken a straight paycut just for the good of the team. He had absolutely zero incentive to do so.

 

2. If we are talking primarily about what Suggs has done in the past, most of the time, he signed an extension, which is different than a restructure. An extension, most of the time, benefits both parties, not just the organization. The organization has the option to lower the immediate cap hit, while the player gets more years, many times more money, and most importantly, almost always more GUARANTEED money.

 

If we are looking at what Suggs did this offseason, when he "restructured" his deal, lets look at what really happened...

 

He took $3M of his base salary for 2015 and converted it into a bonus. Suggs gets that money in the exact same year as he would have already, and lowered his 2015 cap number by roughly $2M. That cap hit doesn't disappear... its just pushed down the road, so his cap hit in the next two years (2016 and 2017) increases by roughly $1M a season.

 

The reason somebody like Ngata CAN'T do that in 2015 is because he has no years left on his deal to spread a bonus out to. In order for him to do something similar, he would need to sign an extension, not restructure anything.

 

The reason this discussion is occurring, most likely, is because neither side could come to an agreement on the terms of an extension, which happens for any number of reasons.

[RavensFootballFan]

Ngata, you had a chance to play for one team and retire a Raven. Am sure the Ravens offer was pretty decent. I loved watching you play and thoroughly enjoyed you as a Raven but you made a choice of money over glory, you held the Ravens hostage in every negotiation to milk as much money as possible till it failed the final time. The Ravens paid you very well for 9 seasons. You had one of the biggest rookie contracts in 2006, one of the highest paid players in the league in 2011 contract. Total salary/signing bonus/roster bonus/option bonus/incentive bonus by the Ravens including the final year this year was over $72 million plus Royal Farms and other endorsements. You were already well compensated by the Ravens, you made the choice by not compromising. The Ravens tried to keep you despite heading past your prime years. There is no I in team. Ray Lewis/Suggs among others did it and look at how good life is for them as a Raven. You valued short term gain over long term benefits. The blame does not fall on the Ravens, it falls on you for not compromising. While the Ravens final offer may not have made you among the highest paid player in the NFL like in 2011, it certainly would have made you much richer and more set for you and your family's future. The choice was yours, not the Ravens, you forced the Ravens hand on making decisions best for the team. As result of trying to play hardball with the Ravens for a 3rd and final time, the ship has sailed, best of luck with the Lions.

[AvianBrain]

Nothing personal Ngata, it's just business...It's sad to think what free agency and crazy money has done to football. I am not saying these guys don't deserve it after what they go through to play at such a high level and with the injuries they face. I just wonder how many championships the Steelers, Cowboys, and 49's would have won if they had the turn-over in the 70's and 80's due to free agency and salary cap casualties.

[January J]

Who is ngata? I'm familiar with Jernigan and Brandon Williams.

Out with the old - in with the new.

Edited August 25, 2015 by January J

[RavensFootballFan]

Couple of problems I have with this:

 

1. The amount Ngata was set to get paid was $8.5M. No realistic person thinks thats an absurd price to play for the level of player that Ngata is at this point in his career. The $8.5M is the exact amount the Lions are paying him this year currently, which again, I don't think anybody believes is an unrealistic amount for one season.

 

 

 

In actuality, it was more than that. We have $7.5 million in dead money from Ngata's signing bonus. Including his signing bonus of $25 million in 2011 and $10 million option bonus in 2012, it comes out to an average of around $12.5 million a year.  

[rmcjacket23]

In actuality, it was more than that. We have $7.5 million in dead money from Ngata's signing bonus. Including his signing bonus of $25 million in 2011 and $10 million option bonus in 2012, it comes out to an average of around $12.5 million a year.  

No, the amount Ngata was actually going to make was $8.5M. The bonus amounts you are describing are only prorated from the teams perspective... they aren't prorated from Ngata's perspective. When he signs a signing bonus of $25M, he gets a check for $25M in that year.

 

That's one of the points here... at no point in time was Ngata ever scheduled to actually get paid $16M in 2015... he was always scheduled to make $8.5M, which was his base salary.

 

Its no different than most other player contracts that have bonuses in them. Joe Flacco had like a $6M cap hit in 2013, yet he actually made $30M that year.

[FloridalovesRavens]

Love SSS and no matter who he retires as I am grateful he was a Raven.

[Bohica5]

Jeez.....All the comments are mostly about a player who doesn't even matter anymore and none about schaub and his lack of skills! whats wrong with you people that you would rather keep a washed up scrub than a young exciting prospect at qb....I don't get it, Renner if he shows up in these last 2 games should absolutely be a candidate for our backup position.......No one really cares about ngata anymore....Its the Past!

[rmcjacket23]

Jeez.....All the comments are mostly about a player who doesn't even matter anymore and none about schaub and his lack of skills! whats wrong with you people that you would rather keep a washed up scrub than a young exciting prospect at qb....I don't get it, Renner if he shows up in these last 2 games should absolutely be a candidate for our backup position.......No one really cares about ngata anymore....Its the Past!

Well, Renner has looked better than Schaub, however it'd be wise to put him in earlier than against the third string defenses he's consistently playing against (consisting mostly of players who will never make the team).

 

I frankly could care less who the backup QB is, because we're screwed regardless of anything happens to Joe.

[Fullblack_RAVEN]

I hope steve smith can repair his relationship w/ the panthers organization and retire as a panther. Imagine if ed reed and the ravens split on bad terms and reed retired as a new york jet. That would be tough to watch as a diehard ed reed fan watching him for all of those years as a raven. Steve smith is probably the greatest player in that franchise's short history. He also has a shot at the hall of fame. It would be a shame if the panthers can't introduce him into the HOF because of a little tiff at the tail end of his career.

[January J]

Jeez.....All the comments are mostly about a player who doesn't even matter anymore and none about schaub and his lack of skills! whats wrong with you people that you would rather keep a washed up scrub than a young exciting prospect at qb....I don't get it, Renner if he shows up in these last 2 games should absolutely be a candidate for our backup position.......No one really cares about ngata anymore....Its the Past!

I really can't stand it when fans annoint a player after 1 or 2 games in the preseason against 3rd string players or players that won't even be on a team next month at all. Don't get me wrong I'm excited about rynner as well and think he has a lot of potential, next year he would be a great candidate for the backup position. But as for this year we brought in Schaub and signed him to a contract for a reason. He knows the system. He's not flashy but if joe goes down he can be a good enough game manager to get us over the hump. As good as rynner has looked, IMO he's not ready. Edited August 25, 2015 by January J

[The Mom Gene]

I like the idea that Schaub is the mind behind Kubiak's offense...  With him and Trestman, we have some pretty good things happening in that meeting room.

[cec327]

Why did the Ravens trade HN? I thought that it was a salary cap issue.

[Nexttime]

Haloti wake up and be great. Your suspension plus Williams and Jernigan tabbing stronger pff scores during the four games you sat out is reason enough when your salary cap hit was at the top of the list. Be well, get well, number one get on the field then speak.

[ravenwildman]

If Steve Smith chose to retire a Panther it would not take away from any of the awesomeness of him being a Raven in my opinion. It is a shame he was on the wrong team for 13 years, there is no doubt he IS what being a Raven is all about. Raven nation embraces his bravado, loves the attitude! Panther....Nation(?) was often taken aback or embarrassed by it. I am glad I bought his jersey, and I will wear it for years to come! GO RAVENS!

[balfan23]

So glad to see us get 3 of our O linemen back on the field. Still waiting to see that KO's issue isn't serious. Forget the dress rehearsal ... I just the starting 5 and their key backups healthy before we hit game one.

[EvilWayz]

Its kind of hard to make a comment, because all of you have made some very valid points on this situation.

 

So all I can say is Its been a joy watching Joe and Tripple "S" hook up on some big plays. It really doesn't matter to me where Steve Smith Sr. retires at. I dont think anyone would be pissed at any decision that Steve Smith Sr. was to make on where he was going to retire. Thanks for your effort, hardwork, dedication, and loyalty to our Baltimore Ravens. Hate to see you go bro, but when it's time, it's time.

 

Haloti Ngata just lost some cool points with me. How can you blame for not keeping you, when it was your decison to leave. I said it once, I'll say again. Alot of these players are only loyal to the money and not the team. Haloti Ngata was a gooed enough contract for his age and his play, but no you felt it wasnt good enough. That sounds like greed and a personal problem to me. All this talk about proving our Baltimore Ravens wrong, man please. I don't think you've participated in training camp or played one preseason game, due to injury, you've mainly proved them right.

 

I'm not mad, but when you come for our Baltimore Ravens, you come for the enitre fandom as well. Let's Go Ravens!!!!! Ball So Hard!!!!!

[trevorsteadman]

Whoever he retires as it doesn't matter. He is still a top 10 receiver of all time. 14th all time as of today in receiving yards but compared to the other receivers above him he has had to deal with really bad quarterbacks outside of 1-2 years with Cam Newton and these two years with Flacco. Stud all around and I respect his decision either way. Just love watching the guy play on Sunday.

[hen826957]

Ngata wants to prove ravens wrong? Ngata you don't have anything to prove to us. We know you can still play at a high level for a few years but your cap number is too darn high. All you have to do is to extend your contract and retire a Raven. Of course we wanted you to stay here Ngata.

[eL_Cam1n0]

Ngata has been and always will be one of my favorite Ravens player, but come on didn't want you? When in fact we traded him because he wouldn't take a pay cut. So we could actually get value instead of releasing him and getting nothing.

[ravens4life86]

Wouldnt it be crazy resign Ngata in offseason. Probably not happening, though cause Yanda, KO and Tucker all need to get done

[OrganisedChaos2]

We all wanted Ngata and knew he was a fantastic player, we just couldn't afford him. Unfortunately it happens but I wish him all the best, hope he continues to play like a Raven in Detroit.

[Bandit666]

I would not be upset if SSS retired a Panther, I think he should. 13 years vs 2. Ngata, you are still welcome in Bmore, everyone loves you. The Ravens just couldn't afford you. Hopefully when you retire, go out as a Raven like JJ did.