[News] Late For Work 8/24: Why Terrell Suggs' Hit Was Not Illegal Or Cheap

[January J]

You HAVE to hit a runner low or you risk hitting them in the head. When the runner is bent over, there is no mid-section to aim for.

players just can't win. The rules are so ticky tacky now if you don't hit the guy right between the numbers it's a flag or your accused of malicious intent. It's Ridiculous. Edited August 24, 2015 by January J

[January J]

Preseason or not this is the N F L.

[ravenwildman]

I just was talking to the athletic director/ coach of a local High School team here about the "roughing the passer" penalty. His perspective made me think. He said that the NFL has created a monster with their interpretation of the rule. It has turned into a "don't you hurt my gazillion dollar QB investment rule". Nothing to do with the original intent to protect a QB from being blindsided after he PASSES the football. He said the HS rule is clear cut, if a QB is moving with his hands and the ball below his shoulders he is a runner and not eligible for protection under the rule. In HS the ball must leave his hands in a pass to qualify. Otherwise it is either a sack or a legal football move. He noted that many read options and wildcat plays use the deception of the QB as a viable run option so how can you have a "roughing the passer" call if he is not clearly passing. He said the NFL should change the name then to "roughing my investment rule'. I like his take and I agree. GO RAVENS!

[RRRRRavens]

I have a simple rule change solution to this runner vs passer ambiguity with QBs. First, at the start of each play we assume the QB will not advance the ball by his running. If he does wind up running, for whatever reason, his advance will not be allowed to go beyond the line of scrimmage. Now for plays like the read-option and other possible QB running plays the QB will be declared 'runner-eligible' at the request of the offense. This will be told to the refs and the defense before the play is started. In this case the QB is now considered a runner for the extent of that play no matter what he does with the ball. This is somewhat like the tackle-eligible play.

[RRRRRavens]

Here's my take... There's a difference between a legal hit and a cheap hit. Was the hit legal? Yes it was. If this was the regular season would we even be having this discussion? Not a chance. BUT... it is the preseason. Was what Suggs did unavoidable? Of course not. He could have hit him higher. I see both sides of it, and I understand both sides of it. I understand why an Eagles fan would question it, because frankly, it doesn't make much sense to hit him low in that spot in the preseason. There's really nothing to be gained by it on anybodies side. I just wonder how Ravens fans would react if it happened to us. If Joe gets hit low on a handoff in the preseason, I would love to see what the reaction would be.

Hey, Jacket.  You left out the part where Joe would be running the read option as the Philly QB was doing.  Of course Joe running the read option is a unicorn, meaning it's conceivable but it doesn't occur in nature.

[Postapocalypse Raven]

maaaan, you have to feel for Pouncey! Homie can't catch a damn break. I hope he recovers soon and can come back this season.

Not really... Too bad, so sad.

[Postapocalypse Raven]

"Why Suggs’ Hit Was Not Illegal Or Cheap"

 

Because Terrell Suggs said so! OHHHHH!!!

[cobrajet]

Whether it was an intentional act or not to go after Bradford's legs to make the tackle does not matter, because it was in Suggs legal right (under read-option rules) to do so. As far as I am concerned, the Eagles can stop their whining because it is on Chip Kelly if they are going to put their primary quarterback (who has bad knees) at risk. He could put in Tebow if he wants to run a play like that! Tebow is a big boy and could take that kind of hit.

[AZRaven520]

Mark Schlereth made some good points. Even provided screen shots on his twitter page. I have to agree with him that Suggs started the tackle at the hips and Bradford tried to avoid the hit which caused Suggs miss a little low. Also in my opinion Bradford fell a little awkward. Kelly says they weren't running read-option but M.S. made a good point aginst that also. Unblocked end and Bradford was looking directly to Suggs side (reading). Protect your quarterback!

As for the game, it just wasn't their day. Offense didn't hold the ball long enough to let the defense rest up. Which, in my eyes, allowed them to get lit up. Add to that the pace Eagles were going. At least thats what I'm hoping. Of course penalties killed us but not all were rightfully called.

Hope we can get it together next couple of weeks.. it would be nice to finally se Perriman on the field too.

[KidNme]

second pre season game and we're decimated already? We need to start drafting guys who haven't had surgery already or childhood diseases affecting the knees and such. Time to pony up for a quality guy with no questions attached to him. I like a bargain and all but have we taken it too far?

As far as Suggs goes and what he did or didn't do, the tape tells the story. Talking about it only adds credence to a stupid statement to begin with! HE can't hit the QB high or the top of his helmet may hit his chin and get a flag and not only that, it sure looked like Suggs grabbed him around the legs, wrapped up and "Tackled" him, not "Hit" him. BIG difference!

[riseNConquer81]

Suggs hit wasnt illegal or cheap because its not his fault Chi Kelly decided to make mr glass his starting quarterback and then run the read option with him in preseason. end story. what's next?

[Grapple Raven]

Glad Blandino, put the NFL rule clarification out there, especially since we are going to be playing the Redskins next with another read option QB. 

 

This is going to be a dicey situation from a PR perspective as we are walking into a powder keg playing the Skins with their internal issues between Gruden and RGIII.  In case you aren't aware see:  http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-coach-jay-gruden-let-rg3-take-beating-on-purpose/ar-BBm2XDD?ocid=U142DHP  

 

Considering all the hype from the Eagles game and read option QB's, and if you remember Nagta's hit on RGIII the last time we played them...I don't want us to be used by Gruden to solve his QB issues and whatever kind of personal vendetta he has with his QB.   Sometimes when you get branded by the media for dirty, thugish play,  valid or not, the hype sticks and results in a lot of field laundry all season.  I know its football and we have to play a game, but this game is bad timing for us from a PR standpoint. Just sayin'.

[Maryland]

Seeing the unique situations created by the new PAT rule has emphasized the importance of having a good kicker in this league, at least to me, anyway. If Tucker doesn't get a long-term deal done, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a very affordable franchise tag placed on him.

[Halshayeji]

That's it. If any of our Linemen look like they will miss significant time, we should sign Mathis before someone else snatches him. Hel be around 3 mil and we certainly have the cap space.

[hen826957]

@Halshayeji maybe Red Bryant for depth as well.

[steelcityraven]

I wouldn't be shocked if Ozzie picks up a KR / PR in the upcoming cuts as teams try to get the rosters trimmed down now!

[Guest]

Suggs play was perfectly by the rules.

Still it drew a flag. What does that really say? With no aspersion towards the Refs treating the Ravens differently.

[thecommish]

Good to see Arthur Brown taking that next step... and thought he played smart and solid... would like to see him be more physical at the point of attack but that is probably why he hasnt filled his potential yet... I see he added some size and strength.... still growing as a player in this league!

[rmcjacket23]

@Halshayeji maybe Red Bryant for depth as well.

He plays for Buffalo.

[rmcjacket23]

Whether it was an intentional act or not to go after Bradford's legs to make the tackle does not matter, because it was in Suggs legal right (under read-option rules) to do so. As far as I am concerned, the Eagles can stop their whining because it is on Chip Kelly if they are going to put their primary quarterback (who has bad knees) at risk. He could put in Tebow if he wants to run a play like that! Tebow is a big boy and could take that kind of hit.

That's completely fine if that's the stance we want to take.

 

But keep in mind... it was also within the Patriots "legal right" to use trick plays and deception to help them beat us last season, and there aren't too many Ravens fans on here who were happy with that.

[bmcc]

Yeah right. Let someone take a cheap shot at Flacco like that ans see how you feel. Suggs and Harbaugh should be suspended for 8 games. Harbaugh is proving to be just as much of a nutcase as his brother. If Suggs came in untouched. If he thought Bradford still had the ball he should have come higher and tried to force a fumble. He didn't. He dove low and vectored directly at Bradford's left knee. A low life scumbag move that probably reflects his coaching.

[The Mom Gene]

That's completely fine if that's the stance we want to take.

 

But keep in mind... it was also within the Patriots "legal right" to use trick plays and deception to help them beat us last season, and there aren't too many Ravens fans on here who were happy with that.

 

While I might agree that it was their "legal right"....  it was in poor taste, deceptive at the very least, and highly unethical.  30 other teams agreed with the Ravens, hence the rule change.

[The Mom Gene]

Yeah right. Let someone take a cheap shot at Flacco like that ans see how you feel. Suggs and Harbaugh should be suspended for 8 games. Harbaugh is proving to be just as much of a nutcase as his brother. If Suggs came in untouched. If he thought Bradford still had the ball he should have come higher and tried to force a fumble. He didn't. He dove low and vectored directly at Bradford's left knee. A low life scumbag move that probably reflects his coaching.

 

Cheap shot?  Are you kidding me???   Time to move on.  Not only do most fans (except Philly of course) agree it wasn't, it was clearly a legitimate take down.  I would say that Philly needs to find a better way of protecting their boy.  If Kelly is going to put him back there and run a Read-Option offense, then it's up to you guys to provide protection.  If you believe that Suggs and Williams are the only guys that are going to pummel that guy this year???  That's pretty naive'.

 

He actually "wrapped him up" on that play...  go back and watch it.  If he wanted to "take him out" as so many Philly fans are surmising, he could have done it a lot better than that

[rmcjacket23]

While I might agree that it was their "legal right"....  it was in poor taste, deceptive at the very least, and highly unethical.  30 other teams agreed with the Ravens, hence the rule change.

Correct, but again, the ethics regarding Suggs hit could certainly be defined as questionable in this case (as is the case with anything being considered ethical or unethical... there's no right or wrong answer).

 

All I'm saying is... we shouldn't be selective with how we choose to play the "it was legal so no problem" card. We have no problem bringing up the ethical card when the offense is at our expense, but we completely ignore that debate when we are the potential culprits.

 

That's the slippery slope that I don't think we as fans want to be walking down.

[The Mom Gene]

Correct, but again, the ethics regarding Suggs hit could certainly be defined as questionable in this case (as is the case with anything being considered ethical or unethical... there's no right or wrong answer).

 

All I'm saying is... we shouldn't be selective with how we choose to play the "it was legal so no problem" card. We have no problem bringing up the ethical card when the offense is at our expense, but we completely ignore that debate when we are the potential culprits.

 

That's the slippery slope that I don't think we as fans want to be walking down.

This was preseason, not the playoffs where a Super Bowl Berth would be on the line... and the team was down by 14 and "needed" those plays.  AND there was nothing "deceptive" about what Suggs did...  Comparing the two is not even close.....

[rmcjacket23]

This was preseason, not the playoffs where a Super Bowl Berth would be on the line... and the team was down by 14 and "needed" those plays.  AND there was nothing "deceptive" about what Suggs did...  Comparing the two is not even close.....

Actually, comparing the two is very close, because the entire conversation is about ethics. Comparing two ethical scenarios works in every possible occassion, because that's the subjective nature of an ethical scenario.

 

You inadvertently actually agreed with my premise... its a preseason game. This being a preseason game is a GIGANTIC reason why he's being accused of being taking a cheap shot. In a regular season game, he's not accused of this. In a postseason game, he's not accused of this.

 

You hit a starting QB low in a preseason game, regardless of whether it was legal, avoidable, etc., you are going to be accused of taking a cheap shot. Once that happens, all you're doing is arguing over perception, not anything factual.

[The Mom Gene]

I agree with the refs., the coaches, and players, as well as most fans...  it was a clean hit.  If you are going to stop the play, then you gotta stop THAT GUY...  otherwise, IF he still has the ball, (and when you're going 60 mph, you just don't have time to know), and because you took the time to decide....then he takes off running down the field.  He's gone.  Blown play.

[757RavensFan]

Yeah right. Let someone take a cheap shot at Flacco like that ans see how you feel. Suggs and Harbaugh should be suspended for 8 games. Harbaugh is proving to be just as much of a nutcase as his brother. If Suggs came in untouched. If he thought Bradford still had the ball he should have come higher and tried to force a fumble. He didn't. He dove low and vectored directly at Bradford's left knee. A low life scumbag move that probably reflects his coaching.

 

You're 1st post, yeah I'm thinking you're an Eagles fan.  

In a fraction of a second you're expecting Suggs to change the angle of his attack to force a fumble. 

Do you know how stupid that sounds? Bottom line, If you don't want your QB getting hit like a RB, don't call plays

that make him a runner.   

You kind of lose credibility in your argument when the VP of officials said it was a clean and legal hit.  

[Moderator 3]

You're 1st post, yeah I'm thinking you're an Eagles fan.  

In a fraction of a second you're expecting Suggs to change the angle of his attack to force a fumble. 

Do you know how stupid that sounds? Bottom line, If you don't want your QB getting hit like a RB, don't call plays

that make him a runner.   

You kind of lose credibility in your argument when the VP of officials said it was a clean and legal hit.

Please don't feed the trolls.

[January J]

That's completely fine if that's the stance we want to take.

But keep in mind... it was also within the Patriots "legal right" to use trick plays and deception to help them beat us last season, and there aren't too many Ravens fans on here who were happy with that.

apples and oranges.

Completely baseless argument and really makes philly and their fans look like a bunch of divas.

This is the nfl. Preseason or not. Suggs was trying to make a play. Did he drive with his shoulder? No. He wrapped him with his arms and let up. Bradford obviously fell awkwardly and made it look a lot worse. & Lord forbid he go high and hit the guy in the head. Defensive players just can't win and these penaltys are really starting to water down the game. Every single analyst and even the head of officiating blandino said the play should not have been a penalty and was not dirty.

Trust me if Suggs wanted to hurt somebody he could have done it.