The good, the bad, and the really bad vs Eagles

[berad]

Chip Kelly lying through his teeth, saying that the Bradford-Suggs play was not zone-read. Better start telling your own players to tow the company line, Chip.

 

Eagles Center Jason Kelce: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-eagles-call-out-terrell-suggs-for-low-hit-on-sam-bradford-20150822-story.html

"I'm sure that's something they're taught, to tackle the quarterback out of the read option.

 

When pressed by reporters on why hasn't talked to the league, he had no response.

[MTRavensFan]

You're kidding, right?

Ben and Flacco get the same protection from the refs as Br*dy and Manning?

Just lost all credibility there.

[berad]

Flacco got bounty-gated and had to cuss out a ref for them to even take notice... still didn't get a flag.

[lgcs27288]

5. The Ravens as a whole looked frustrated from the very start of the game. The Eagles tempo forced the Ravens to practice this week at a much higher tempo than they were used and they players didn't want to be in Philly for that reason. Then on top of that the general consensus of the people that I talked to that watched the joint practices, the Eagles skilled players outplayed and out practiced the Ravens players. The 11/11's and 7/7's the Eagles O had no issue moving the ball at will against the Ravens during practices and that frustration clearly was on the field during the

I mean, I can understand homerism, but seriously dude?

Multiple media outlets pointed out that the Eagles were practicing slow during that time. Is that also why Steve Smith called these practices apple juice?

There's a lot more to say to this dude, but I'm not going to feed him.

[PurpleCity5]

I honestly wouldn't take too much away from this game. Even Harbs admitted that he didn't game plan for this one and I feel that some are taking it more seriously than they should. 

 

The offensive line looked great. I mean we were missing K.O, Wagner, and Uschel, and it felt like we were having our way early on. I was impressed with how well we managed. 

 

I am thoroughly surprised and impressed with Rashaan Melvin! He has been one of our best during training camp sessions against the Eagles, and really stood out to win in our second preseason game. I really think it's starting to become a matter of "when" not "If" Melvin wins the starting job over Webb. He's been playing great. He could become a huge piece of this defense. 

[Ravensfan23]

To the over zealous fans that just don't seem to understand that IT WAS PRESEASON, how many years does the same convo have to be had? The Loins were undefeated in the preseason the very same season they went 0-16 in the regular season. It's laughable some of the "analysis" I'm seeing.

It's laughable the way the Eagle fans and even players are reacting to this game. I don't wanna make it sound like excuses because the Ravens were beat bad. But it's pretty common for the Ravens to have a let down in preseason game #2. Call it the end of Camp letdown or what but for the most part this team seems to take their foot off the pedal in game two. There is no gameplan and while you still wanna having a great showing, it doesn't matter the outcome, you just wanna remain healthy.

If you go back and watch the game without emotion, you'll see that the Ravens offense got everything they wanted against the Eagles top D. Of course the ints hurt but the oline, even with backups, performed well. The running game did well and even the WRs were open. Of course Flacco and Schaub was off a bit.

This game wasn't as bad as the score showed, but definitely a lot of teaching points.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

About a 5.  I'm retired and have been watching football since the late 1950's and I like to talk football.  I also have a lot of Ravens friends that I watched the game with and we've been just shooting the breeze about football this year in general and I like to read other teams forums about the games against the Eagles.  Just reading through this thread I noticed that there were a number of things said that were incorrect about Kelly and the Eagles in general so I thought I would pipe up.  Take it for what's it worth and know that I'm not hear to trash talk and will probably leave this msg board until the next time the Raves/Eagles play.

 

I agree with your points on the the flags and on Kelly not scheming this game. I dont think he did either.

 

But his offense, even at its basic most vanilla form, is predicated on each play have 2 options, sometimes 3. Every play can be a run or pass, sometimes even a run, run, pass or run, pass, pass options. Even at its base its complex, but the complexity is based on very simple concepts (confusing?).

 

Not scheming against his offense (even a bland, vanilla form of it) is always going to cause trouble. Because the QB reads what the defense is in, and then picks the option to beat it. So, if the defense isnt disguising pressures and coverages pre-snap you're going to be overwhelmed by Kelly's offense.

 

Last year in pre-season this offense dismantled teams as well. It did so in the regular season at times too, but good D coordinators with good personnel eventually were able to beat it and beat it thoroughly. Dont get me wrong, this Eagles team is good, probably top 3 in the NFC maybe top 2 with Jordy Nelson down. But, if the Ravens schemed defensively to stop it, and Kelly schemed offensively it would have been a much different game. 

 

Granted with Joe throwing INT's left and right chances are you still would have jumped out on us, but I don't agree that the Ravens defense is inherently flawed to play against Kelly's offense. With a proper game plan I think the teams would be very well matched.

 

Our run game would help us keep the ball and control the clock against your D and your offense would probably have success moving the ball at times and scoring. However, even in this preseason game it was noticeable that most of the time when penalties werent called in the Eagles favor, they struggled to move the ball. There were 2 3-and-outs in a row on the only 2 possessions i can remember where there werent big penalties called.

[January J]

I agree with your points on the the flags and on Kelly not scheming this game. I dont think he did either.

But his offense, even at its basic most vanilla form, is predicated on each play have 2 options, sometimes 3. Every play can be a run or pass, sometimes even a run, run, pass or run, pass, pass options. Even at its base its complex, but the complexity is based on very simple concepts (confusing?).

Not scheming against his offense (even a bland, vanilla form of it) is always going to cause trouble. Because the QB reads what the defense is in, and then picks the option to beat it. So, if the defense isnt disguising pressures and coverages pre-snap you're going to be overwhelmed by Kelly's offense.

Last year in pre-season this offense dismantled teams as well. It did so in the regular season at times too, but good D coordinators with good personnel eventually were able to beat it and beat it thoroughly. Dont get me wrong, this Eagles team is good, probably top 3 in the NFC maybe top 2 with Jordy Nelson down. But, if the Ravens schemed defensively to stop it, and Kelly schemed offensively it would have been a much different game.

Granted with Joe throwing INT's left and right chances are you still would have jumped out on us, but I don't agree that the Ravens defense is inherently flawed to play against Kelly's offense. With a proper game plan I think the teams would be very well matched.

Our run game would help us keep the ball and control the clock against your D and your offense would probably have success moving the ball at times and scoring. However, even in this preseason game it was noticeable that most of the time when penalties werent called in the Eagles favor, they struggled to move the ball. There were 2 3-and-outs in a row on the only 2 possessions i can remember where there werent big penalties called.

yeah in normal circumstances I think these two teams would match up very well.

[DomMcRaven]

I love how the media is still talking about the Suggs hit on Bradford. It's hilarious how they'll talk more about us when something negative happens to us (unless we win the Superb Owl).

[lgcs27288]

I love how the media is still talking about the Suggs hit on Bradford. It's hilarious how they'll talk more about us when something negative happens to us (unless we win the Superb Owl).

Haha, Superb Owl.

I agree, why do they keep bringing this up? There is a whole slew of preseason stats and injuries to talk about, yet they are reporting on he-say, she-say things.

[redrum52]

Burn this tape and keep it moving...

[JEEPercreepermd]

To the over zealous fans that just don't seem to understand that IT WAS PRESEASON, how many years does the same convo have to be had? The Loins were undefeated in the preseason the very same season they went 0-16 in the regular season. It's laughable some of the "analysis" I'm seeing.

It's laughable the way the Eagle fans and even players are reacting to this game. I don't wanna make it sound like excuses because the Ravens were beat bad. But it's pretty common for the Ravens to have a let down in preseason game #2. Call it the end of Camp letdown or what but for the most part this team seems to take their foot off the pedal in game two. There is no gameplan and while you still wanna having a great showing, it doesn't matter the outcome, you just wanna remain healthy.

If you go back and watch the game without emotion, you'll see that the Ravens offense got everything they wanted against the Eagles top D. Of course the ints hurt but the oline, even with backups, performed well. The running game did well and even the WRs were open. Of course Flacco and Schaub was off a bit.

This game wasn't as bad as the score showed, but definitely a lot of teaching points.

Thank you.

I'd like to add that our front 4 was pretty much having their way with the Eagles Oline before the Suggs hit..no blitzes, Dumervil was beating their RT pretty good..got held a few times or else could have had a sack or two. After that, they were just running quick snaps before the defense could get set.

I also agree that the run game looked good considering who we started vs their 1's. We were just running the outside zone play to Yanda's side. He was mauling guys.

The Picks by Flacco are no cause for concern. Again, one was a deep ball that Aiken could have caught but there was some contact, couldn't get his arm free and it got tipped.

The second was a good route and decision to go to Brown on the deep curl,but it sailed. That's throwing off the back foot, which Joe will do from time to time.

That said, you still don't like to see the penalties and lack of discipline. We all know the Vets weren't thrilled to be marooned in Philly for a week, and they played like they just wanted to get back to their routine.

Worth noting-

Before the game, Harbaugh and Kelly had quasi agreed to do this again in 2 years. How much would you wager that doesn't happen?

Also, Eagles fans still crying that Bradford got thumped a few times is hilarious.

[pitchblack_20]

Burn this tape and keep it moving...

Lol sounds good, but there's wayy too much to learn from.

[ravensdfan]

To the over zealous fans that just don't seem to understand that IT WAS PRESEASON, how many years does the same convo have to be had? The Loins were undefeated in the preseason the very same season they went 0-16 in the regular season. It's laughable some of the "analysis" I'm seeing.

It's laughable the way the Eagle fans and even players are reacting to this game. I don't wanna make it sound like excuses because the Ravens were beat bad. But it's pretty common for the Ravens to have a let down in preseason game #2. Call it the end of Camp letdown or what but for the most part this team seems to take their foot off the pedal in game two. There is no gameplan and while you still wanna having a great showing, it doesn't matter the outcome, you just wanna remain healthy.

If you go back and watch the game without emotion, you'll see that the Ravens offense got everything they wanted against the Eagles top D. Of course the ints hurt but the oline, even with backups, performed well. The running game did well and even the WRs were open. Of course Flacco and Schaub was off a bit.

This game wasn't as bad as the score showed, but definitely a lot of teaching points.

I'm still blaming it all on the Pool Pic Debacle in the Game Thread. Guess even us forum members are knocking the rust off before the season starts!

[52520Andrew]

Yeah, I understand and I don't even disagree. I know your point and I don't disagree with yours. I agree, hence my multiple confessions that I believe he's destined for the PS QB position. With that said, I just don't like discrediting his potential at this stage. I know you're not quite doing it, but some comments did, I thought. Granted, I'm sure some even said that he should start over Flacco in the game thread. I can't remember. That's just crazy talk.

Yeah I think Renner has some potential to develop but I don't want him to be the go to guy if Flacco goes down although hopefully we don't have to go through that(knock on wood)

[Ravensfan23]

I'm still blaming it all on the Pool Pic Debacle in the Game Thread. Guess even us forum members are knocking the rust off before the season starts!

Is that was preseason is for? Haha. Let's just hope that was a teaching moment for the Flock.

[FlackAttack]

The good: Magee

The bad: everyone but Schaub

The VERY bad: Shaub

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

The good: Magee

The bad: everyone but Schaub

The VERY bad: Shaub

Flaccos gotta be in with the VERY bad. 2 picks on, what, 5 pass attempts? Can't play much worse in limited action.

[JEEPercreepermd]

Flaccos gotta be in with the VERY bad. 2 picks on, what, 5 pass attempts? Can't play much worse in limited action.

I've gotta disagree with you.

The first pick was actually not a bad pass, Aiken and the DB were making contact, it got tipped up and right to their safety. That happens.

The second was a ball that just sailed.

It's not as if a linebacker read his eyes and jumped a route or if he made the wrong read.

I'd say those 2 picks probably wouldn't have happened in the regular season. Joe can get a little lazy with his mechanics and try to throw into double coverage when the games don't count.

[callahan09]

Yeah, the first throw wasn't bad.  Aiken could have jumped up and fought for the ball rather than just keeping straight ahead and outrunning it and not playing the ball.  I mean, you can't expect Joe to put it much closer to "on the money" than that every time.  Remember that when we talk about these deep balls from Joe, for whatever reason they're *ALWAYS* these "hit the man in stride down the field while he's being covered" types of plays.  Every time!  It boggles me mind.  So many of the deep balls I see from the likes of Stafford, Brady, the Mannings, Rodgers, Cutler, etc, who are all pretty accurate on deep throws, are throwing to guys who get open deep down field and sit at a point where the ball can be delivered to them.  I feel like I don't see that many of these "throw the ball 40+ yards down field to a covered receiver and try to hit him in stride" kind of throws outside of what Joe is always throwing.  Those are really hard throws to be accurate on because you don't know how much separation the receiver is going to have by the time the ball gets there, you don't even really know where the receiver is going to wind up on the throw because they aren't anywhere near where the ball is being thrown at the time the ball is let go.  It's a combination of a calculation and a guess where you're even supposed to put the ball, much less then the actual ability to put it exactly at that spot.  These throws really don't concern me when they're as close as Joe got that one to Aiken.

 

Now, the ball that sailed 5 feet over Marlon Brown's head just a few yards upfield, that was an absolutely awful throw.  No clue how that happened, but I don't think we need to worry about seeing too much of that.

 

The bad luck of the first throw and then the one bad throw on the second drive really limited the amount of action Joe got to try out in that game.  The final drive he was in on was with backups across most of the OL and there was just no time to find a receiver so the drive stalled, and there ya go, he's out of the game.

 

We didn't learn much of anything, there wasn't enough opportunity for action, and I'm glad that Joe threw that atrocious ball to Marlon so that he is aware of that kind of thing and knows to focus and not make that mistake twice!

[redrum52]

I've gotta disagree with you.

The first pick was actually not a bad pass, Aiken and the DB were making contact, it got tipped up and right to their safety. That happens.

The second was a ball that just sailed.

It's not as if a linebacker read his eyes and jumped a route or if he made the wrong read.

I'd say those 2 picks probably wouldn't have happened in the regular season. Joe can get a little lazy with his mechanics and try to throw into double coverage when the games don't count.

The first pick was a great defensive play. The 2nd was an atrocious throw. I honestly don't think the first pick happens if he's making that play to Perriman, but what do I know. I take nothing from this game. This team is difficult to gauge, especially in pre season. If you would've asked me during the Texans game what I thought our chances of a playoff run were, I would've laughed. Then, during the Patriots game, I'm thinking when they were going to hold the parade...

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I've gotta disagree with you.

The first pick was actually not a bad pass, Aiken and the DB were making contact, it got tipped up and right to their safety. That happens.

The second was a ball that just sailed.

It's not as if a linebacker read his eyes and jumped a route or if he made the wrong read.

I'd say those 2 picks probably wouldn't have happened in the regular season. Joe can get a little lazy with his mechanics and try to throw into double coverage when the games don't count.

 

The 1st may not have been a bad pass, but i have a problem taking that shot with Aiken when SS was wide open on a crossing route for a 1st down. Not to mention it was only 1st down when he took the shot. I dont mind being aggressive, but that early in the game when you're not in rhythm yet (we ran almost every play before that) i just dont think its a good decision. Perriman, maybe you do it.

 

The 2nd throw was just terrible. If a LB read his eyes and jumped it, at least thats a defender making a play. this was just Joe completely off on a throw. Brown couldnt have been more wide open and he sat down in the zone, so it wasnt even a moving target.

 

I agree I dont think its something we have to worry about going forward, but that doesnt change the fact that having even 1 INT that bad in 5 throws is a pretty terrible game. That's my only point. 

[Purple_City39]

The 1st may not have been a bad pass, but i have a problem taking that shot with Aiken when SS was wide open on a crossing route for a 1st down. Not to mention it was only 1st down when he took the shot. I dont mind being aggressive, but that early in the game when you're not in rhythm yet (we ran almost every play before that) i just dont think its a good decision. Perriman, maybe you do it.

 

The 2nd throw was just terrible. If a LB read his eyes and jumped it, at least thats a defender making a play. this was just Joe completely off on a throw. Brown couldnt have been more wide open and he sat down in the zone, so it wasnt even a moving target.

 

I agree I dont think its something we have to worry about going forward, but that doesnt change the fact that having even 1 INT that bad in 5 throws is a pretty terrible game. That's my only point. 

I disagree with this.  After running a bunch of times is the perfect time for a play action deep throw.  Plus since it's a preseason game, you still have to see what works even while calling vanilla plays

[January J]

It seems like receivers around the league always make those deep catches even when they're not on the money and they make the quarterbacks look so much better. However our receivers always have a hard time tracking the ball and if joe doesn't lay the ball right between the numbers they rarely make the catch. It frustrates the heck outta me.

[berad]

Aiken did a good amount of stumbling towards the end of that route, as the ball was in the air, as he was jostling with the DB. Deep passes are not his forte. Joe under-threw it, Aiken couldn't adjust. Still, great defensive play on a ball that, at worst, falls incomplete most of the time.

[Ravensfan23]

The 1st may not have been a bad pass, but i have a problem taking that shot with Aiken when SS was wide open on a crossing route for a 1st down. Not to mention it was only 1st down when he took the shot. I dont mind being aggressive, but that early in the game when you're not in rhythm yet (we ran almost every play before that) i just dont think its a good decision. Perriman, maybe you do it.

The 2nd throw was just terrible. If a LB read his eyes and jumped it, at least thats a defender making a play. this was just Joe completely off on a throw. Brown couldnt have been more wide open and he sat down in the zone, so it wasnt even a moving target.

I agree I dont think its something we have to worry about going forward, but that doesnt change the fact that having even 1 INT that bad in 5 throws is a pretty terrible game. That's my only point.

I initially felt the same about taking that shot. But after going back to watch the game, I think Joe would have needed a bit more time to come off his initial read of Aiken who had a 1on1 matchup.

Couldn't agree more on the 2nd one. I'll also add that Brown had plenty of space around him and would have probably had 1 guy to beat to the endzone. So those are two huge plays that could have been points for the Ravens but turned into points for the opponents. It's just preseason and i don't have any concerns about Joe, but in the regular season those are the plays that allow weaker teams to beat you.