The good, the bad, and the really bad vs Eagles

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah it certainly doesn't preclude Renner from being successful, but the odds are severely stacked against him.  It's a shame because I really do like the guy, but I just don't see his physical abilities making it in the NFL.  If I'm wrong you know I'll be the first one to admit it, but I just don't see it in him.  Too many issues that I think would be highly exposed against guys that are legit NFL players.

I don't like to ever say for sure the guy doesn't have it. I know you're not just discounting him. I honestly don't think he makes the team and I see him being the PS QB, but I just don't like the idea of people saying he won't amount to much. It's so hard to say because Tom Brady succeeded, same goes for Kurt Warner & Tony Romo. They may have better arms, but it's not like they're the best arms out there, either. I like his mentality and mind and I think that could overcome some of his weaknesses as we've seen from other successful football players and QBs. 

[rmw10]

I don't like to ever say for sure the guy doesn't have it. I know you're not just discounting him. I honestly don't think he makes the team and I see him being the PS QB, but I just don't like the idea of people saying he won't amount to much. It's so hard to say because Tom Brady succeeded, same goes for Kurt Warner & Tony Romo. They may have better arms, but it's not like they're the best arms out there, either. I like his mentality and mind and I think that could overcome some of his weaknesses as we've seen from other successful football players and QBs. 

 

What ultimately hurts him, in my opinion, is his inconsistent accuracy combined with that lack of arm strength.  There are times where he makes some good throws, but others where you really just scratch your head to how it could be that far off.  I think he's a worthwhile guy to develop on the practice squad to see if you can mask some of those issues, but there's not much question in my mind that Schaub is the clear backup here.  His mentality could be his saving grace for some sort of NFL career, though.  I don't mean to knock the guy too much.  I know it may come off that way, but the real intention is the point out the issues since a lot of people are hopping on the Renner bandwagon.

[GrimCoconut]

What ultimately hurts him, in my opinion, is his inconsistent accuracy combined with that lack of arm strength.  There are times where he makes some good throws, but others where you really just scratch your head to how it could be that far off.  I think he's a worthwhile guy to develop on the practice squad to see if you can mask some of those issues, but there's not much question in my mind that Schaub is the clear backup here.  His mentality could be his saving grace for some sort of NFL career, though.  I don't mean to knock the guy too much.  I know it may come off that way, but the real intention is the point out the issues since a lot of people are hopping on the Renner bandwagon.

Yeah, I understand and I don't even disagree. I know your point and I don't disagree with yours. I agree, hence my multiple confessions that I believe he's destined for the PS QB position. With that said, I just don't like discrediting his potential at this stage. I know you're not quite doing it, but some comments did, I thought. Granted, I'm sure some even said that he should start over Flacco in the game thread. I can't remember. That's just crazy talk.

[rmw10]

Yeah, I understand and I don't even disagree. I know your point and I don't disagree with yours. I agree, hence my multiple confessions that I believe he's destined for the PS QB position. With that said, I just don't like discrediting his potential at this stage. I know you're not quite doing it, but some comments did, I thought. Granted, I'm sure some even said that he should start over Flacco in the game thread. I can't remember. That's just crazy talk.

 

To be completely honest, I wouldn't even mind if we kept Renner over Schaub, although I highly doubt that happens.

[cookiedood]

Can't say anything that hasn't already been said, except that I didn't really think that we would miss Ngata, but obviously, I was wrong. Can anyone please tell me where Jernigan and Williams were last night. You could drive a mack truck through those holes in the center of the line. And Matt Schaub, are you kidding me. Renner is playing heads above Schaub.

[rafahash]

Can't say anything that hasn't already been said, except that I didn't really think that we would miss Ngata, but obviously, I was wrong. Can anyone please tell me where Jernigan and Williams were last night. You could drive a mack truck through those holes in the center of the line. And Matt Schaub, are you kidding me. Renner is playing heads above Schaub.

 

It's too early to tell if we will miss Ngata. It's preseason. Had Jernigan and Williams dominated, it would still not mean that we won't miss Ngata. Please stop overreacting over a preseason game.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I don't like to ever say for sure the guy doesn't have it. I know you're not just discounting him. I honestly don't think he makes the team and I see him being the PS QB, but I just don't like the idea of people saying he won't amount to much. It's so hard to say because Tom Brady succeeded, same goes for Kurt Warner & Tony Romo. They may have better arms, but it's not like they're the best arms out there, either. I like his mentality and mind and I think that could overcome some of his weaknesses as we've seen from other successful football players and QBs.

I don't disagree and you've pointed out some good examples of guys who didn't have the arm talent you typically look for and carved out good to great careers.

I think each of them still do have more arm talent then Renner does but they're probably comparable. Where I think there's a clear distinction is accuracy, pocket awareness and decision making.

Accuracy and decision making can really improve with coaching and experience. Unfortunately I think pocket presence/awareness is something you typically have or you don't. That's not to say you can't become more comfortable and intelligent over time.

The best of those examples is Kurt Warner who had to toil in Europe and I believe Canada before getting his shot. He was written off and had to really work at it... Only to become one of the better QBs of his era, and learned to really overcome his lack of arm talent with incredible accuracy.

So yes, there is reason to give Renner time especially since there are a lot of like able traits to his game. The mental part kills the careers of a lot of very talented guys. So it's definitely a good starting point.

But Kurt Warner is by far the exception. So you're right he shouldn't be written off, and I won't speak for rmw but I think both of us were just responding to those saying we should roll with Renner over Schaub. That's a big stretch at this point.

I like a lot about Renner but that lack of arm strength becomes far more of a liability when playing against a 1st team defense with guys that can read/react faster, play tighter coverage and you've got less time to get rid of the ball.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Can't say anything that hasn't already been said, except that I didn't really think that we would miss Ngata, but obviously, I was wrong. Can anyone please tell me where Jernigan and Williams were last night. You could drive a mack truck through those holes in the center of the line. And Matt Schaub, are you kidding me. Renner is playing heads above Schaub.

We were playing base defense all night and headsets weren't working so we couldn't get defensive play calls in. We just practiced against them so they saw 3 days of what we were going to do.

If you look at Philly media reports of the practices they all commented on how different Philly's offense looked in the sessions against us compared to what they normally do. So seems to me like a little purposeful deception in not showing us any of what we would see in the game.

The defense as a whole obviously suffered.

And Renner is playing ok, there are things I like but he's inaccurate, misses open throws at times and makes some poor decisions. Schaub has too but he's also shown more positives. He was very good for the most part in week 1.

Plus it's a lot different throwing against the 1st team defense and the 3rd/4th string. The rush comes faster, coverage is tighter, you have to squeeze the ball into tighter windows, play with more anticipation and the ball has to have zip on it bc defenders react faster to the ball.

That exploits Renners biggest weakness which is his arm strength. Not saying he can't succeed just saying they've had similar success. Renner looked a little better in Philly and Schaub looked much better against the Saints. Problem is one is playing against much better defenses.

You can't just say Renner looked better this week so he's the guy - shoot I guess with that line of thinking he should be our starter because Flacco looked worse than both.

Renner should start!

[ravensdan]

I don't know what to think. It's easy to shrug this off as an aberration, but it's also easy to say this could be the norm and not the exception. I don't know either way. I'm concerned, but I have no choice but to let it play out and see what happens. It seems we relied a lot on younger guys this game. Williams had more reps than I saw before with Joe. There's a clear push for youth and I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

I don't think I need to say the bad. We all know it. Instead, I'll focus on the positives.

I think Arthur Brown, Zach Orr, Javarious Allen, Ryan Jensen, Tray Walker, Cassius Vaughn, Rashaad Melvin, & Christo Bilukidi were the "standouts" tonight for me. I think Marlon Brown looked pretty good, too. I didn't see him out there a ton, but I liked what I saw when he was out there. He took some heat around here this week, so he deserves some recognition. Melvin & Walker weren't great, nor Vaughn, but I think they all looked pretty decent.

I don't think Asa Jackson or Albert McClellan make the team from what I saw tonight. Just one thing I noticed out there tonight. I also don't recall seeing a lot of Juszczyk.

I don't agree with you on McClellan. If smith or Mosley go down in the regular season I would trust McClellan more. I would like to keep Brown and Mclellan probably. I just think it would be a mistake cutting the reliable player.

[ravensdan]

Looked like a Dean Pees defense. Everyone looked confused. Nobody seemed to know where to be. Pees could have all the best players in the league on d and they still wouldn't get off the field. There is no logic behind the scheme. Offense was hard to tell. People were open, QBs made bad throws.

One thing that irked me on offense was 3rd and goal, short yardage. We need to get up to the line and qb sneak. It worked so well last season, I don't want us to go back to trying to run the ball through a wall and losing yards like years past. Just watching the patriots gain about 6 yards on every short yardage qb sneak attempt has me asking "why can't we do this?"

Running a QB sneak in a pre season game is complete insanity. I didn't even want to see Flacco scrambling for that first down. The team actually used it quite a bit when applicable last year.

[Maryland]

Running a QB sneak in a pre season game is complete insanity. I didn't even want to see Flacco scrambling for that first down. The team actually used it quite a bit when applicable last year.

I actually like to see Flacco scrambling (as long as he takes a slide before contact). There were times last year where simply running for the first down would have kept the drive alive (the 2nd Cincinnati game had a painfully obvious example of this). If looking ahead and scrambling during preseason games gets him used to doing it during the regular season, I'm all for it.

[MTRavensFan]

It's too early to tell if we will miss Ngata. It's preseason. Had Jernigan and Williams dominated, it would still not mean that we won't miss Ngata. Please stop overreacting over a preseason game.

Ngata's been out all PS on the non-football injury list.

So we'd still be missing him even if he hadn't been traded.

[JEEPercreepermd]

There really no game planing involved in preseason games whats really the point to have all this fast tempo stuff if all this game is about is to evaluate players.. Yeah some of the plays may have been predictable but what if Marc Trestman wanted to see how well our offensive line could run block or other things. You want to see all this flashy type play calling in a preseason game ? That's just not what The Ravens are going to do and they been doing this for quite awhile...

You say Dean Pees system is failing just like in the playoff game last year against The Patriots. Hmm the last time I checked The Patriots is the same team that had to use tricks plays and ineligible receiver trick play(it's banned now) against The Ravens to help them win the game. You don't do that type of stuff if the defensive system is failing... i really don't see why Dean Pees have to step up his playcalling or make his scheme more complex in a preseason game especially the second preseason game.

I'm not really concerned about the secondary honestly and you can't have elite players at every position.. You really think The Ravens are going to be able to find a starting number 2 cornerback at this present time? and what team is really going to be willing to give up a cornerback like that in a trade? Not many in my opinion. The only cornerbacks available with starting experience out their in free agency is Chris Cooks and Alfonzo Dennard

Lol people @ the panic over a PS game!

You are right. There was no game planning at all. I'm sure the Eagles probably did to an exten though. The Defense was just running base stuff. No disguised coverages ect... On offense, they were just running the ball mostly. Yeah joe threw 2 picks, but who cares? Aikens arm was hooked on the first and he just got too much air on the second. I think he saw a LB breaking over that way and put it high, just a little too much juice on it. It happens.

Actually,

The D line was pushing the eagles around pretty bad until Suggs kept getting flagged. Dumervil could have had 2 sacks on the first drive, but got held big time. Williams broke through and laid a big hit. Suggs beat Peters and got to Bradford too.

After that, the effort wasn't there.

On offense, the running game looked good. Forsett had a few nice gains.

Remember this is without KO, and Wagner on the O line.

Score means nothing in Pre Season week 2.

The Ravens literally just go out and play.

Also worth noting.

Harbaugh said that their communications were not working. They couldn't get calls relayed from the booth to the players..which is why you saw the defense out of sorts on the no huddle stuff, they weren't getting any calls at all.

[dms9950]

As an Eagles fan that has watched the game 3 times now and know personally a number of media members that were at the joint practices, here is my opinion of the game:

1. The Suggs hit was borderline but legal.

2. The refs ruined this game. The number of flags thrown was stupid and ruined the game.

3. For those that are saying that Kelly game planned you are sorely mistaken. That was Kelly vanilla. As for the no-huddle offense, that's what Kelly does. For the Eagles top operate out of the huddle is akin to the Ravens operating out of the no-huddle.

4. The Ravens can't handle an up-tempo offense. They over-pursue and part of the up-tempo is misdirection and spreading the field. While Ravens D is strong, it can't compete with fast team when it can't play a smash-mouth styled defense.

5. The Ravens as a whole looked frustrated from the very start of the game. The Eagles tempo forced the Ravens to practice this week at a much higher tempo than they were used and they players didn't want to be in Philly for that reason. Then on top of that the general consensus of the people that I talked to that watched the joint practices, the Eagles skilled players outplayed and out practiced the Ravens players. The 11/11's and 7/7's the Eagles O had no issue moving the ball at will against the Ravens during practices and that frustration clearly was on the field during the game.

6. The Eagles are loaded on offense and they play to their identity. One of the philosophies of Kelly is that there are no off plays. There are no plays where we play like this and then for others we play like this. It's just the same thing every play and the players that didn't buy in were shipped out. The Eagles identity is that they will out hustle everybody on offense and the defense is built on the front 7, of which their top 3 MLB's weren't playing. Their secondary is suspect because there are 3/4 new starters with one of them being a rook. The fact that the Ravens were even able to run the ball is a good sign for your backup OLmen because the Eagles have one of the top 3 front 7's in all of football.

7. The Ravens D looked exhausted from the start. As for the comments about vanilla defense is a joke. They played against these same players for 3 days straight and they didn't execute correctly.

That's it really. It was a decent game but refs ruined it with the flags. Without the flags we are looking at a 27-17 score, not a 40-17 score (refs or not, the Ravens weren't winning that game).

Edited August 24, 2015 by Moderator 3
Inappropriate comments removed

[GrimCoconut]

I don't disagree and you've pointed out some good examples of guys who didn't have the arm talent you typically look for and carved out good to great careers.

I think each of them still do have more arm talent then Renner does but they're probably comparable. Where I think there's a clear distinction is accuracy, pocket awareness and decision making.

Accuracy and decision making can really improve with coaching and experience. Unfortunately I think pocket presence/awareness is something you typically have or you don't. That's not to say you can't become more comfortable and intelligent over time.

The best of those examples is Kurt Warner who had to toil in Europe and I believe Canada before getting his shot. He was written off and had to really work at it... Only to become one of the better QBs of his era, and learned to really overcome his lack of arm talent with incredible accuracy.

So yes, there is reason to give Renner time especially since there are a lot of like able traits to his game. The mental part kills the careers of a lot of very talented guys. So it's definitely a good starting point.

But Kurt Warner is by far the exception. So you're right he shouldn't be written off, and I won't speak for rmw but I think both of us were just responding to those saying we should roll with Renner over Schaub. That's a big stretch at this point.

I like a lot about Renner but that lack of arm strength becomes far more of a liability when playing against a 1st team defense with guys that can read/react faster, play tighter coverage and you've got less time to get rid of the ball.

I understand but I suppose I just didn't like the way it was phrased.

And accuracy, pocket awareness, and even arm strength can improve with coaching and training (although the arm strength is likely to be marginally improved). Accuracy and pocket awareness can improve and he has the mentality, it seems, to do it. Drive is a huge intangible and it looks like he has it. It'll be some time before I think it applies.

See the other thread for my opinion on him as #2.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't agree with you on McClellan. If smith or Mosley go down in the regular season I would trust McClellan more. I would like to keep Brown and Mclellan probably. I just think it would be a mistake cutting the reliable player.

It's not that I don't like McClellan. I do like him even with his limited upside. The reason I said I don't think he makes the team is due to how well Brown and Orr played and the snaps they both got. Brown is actually looking better on ST as well, an area he used to struggle.

[rmw10]

This might be the really bad… No confirmation on extent, but the reporters on Twitter are taking it as a bad sign.

 

lorenzo taliaferro ‏@ZoBot_45  5m5 minutes ago

Minor setback for a major comeback slight bump in the road but God doesn't give me anything I can't handle #InGodITrust #BeBackSoon

[Purple_City39]

This might be the really bad… No confirmation on extent, but the reporters on Twitter are taking it as a bad sign.

 

lorenzo taliaferro ‏@ZoBot_45  5m5 minutes ago

Minor setback for a major comeback slight bump in the road but God doesn't give me anything I can't handle #InGodITrust #BeBackSoon

That sucks.  I guess Terrence Magee will see more snaps next week and the week after.  Both he and Toussaint

[GrimCoconut]

Aww man...not LT!

[757RavensFan]

Question:  Was the bogus roughing the passer penalty on Suggs on 3rd down? 

[pitchblack_20]

As an Eagles fan that has watched the game 3 times now and know personally a number of media members that were at the joint practices, here is my opinion of the game:

1. The Suggs hit was borderline but legal.

2. The refs ruined this game. The number of flags thrown was stupid and ruined the game.

3. For those that are saying that Kelly game planned you are sorely mistaken. That was Kelly vanilla. As for the no-huddle offense, that's what Kelly does. For the Eagles top operate out of the huddle is akin to the Ravens operating out of the no-huddle.

4. The Ravens can't handle an up-tempo offense. They over-pursue and part of the up-tempo is misdirection and spreading the field. While Ravens D is strong, it can't compete with fast team when it can't play a smash-mouth styled defense.

5. The Ravens as a whole looked frustrated from the very start of the game. The Eagles tempo forced the Ravens to practice this week at a much higher tempo than they were used and they players didn't want to be in Philly for that reason. Then on top of that the general consensus of the people that I talked to that watched the joint practices, the Eagles skilled players outplayed and out practiced the Ravens players. The 11/11's and 7/7's the Eagles O had no issue moving the ball at will against the Ravens during practices and that frustration clearly was on the field during the game.

6. The Eagles are loaded on offense and they play to their identity. One of the philosophies of Kelly is that there are no off plays. There are no plays where we play like this and then for others we play like this. It's just the same thing every play and the players that didn't buy in were shipped out. The Eagles identity is that they will out hustle everybody on offense and the defense is built on the front 7, of which their top 3 MLB's weren't playing. Their secondary is suspect because there are 3/4 new starters with one of them being a rook. The fact that the Ravens were even able to run the ball is a good sign for your backup OLmen because the Eagles have one of the top 3 front 7's in all of football.

7. The Ravens D looked exhausted from the start. As for the comments about vanilla defense is a joke. They played against these same players for 3 days straight and they didn't execute correctly.

That's it really. It was a decent game but refs ruined it with the flags. Without the flags we are looking at a 27-17 score, not a 40-17 score (refs or not, the Ravens weren't winning that game).

on a scale from 1-10, how bad did you want to come here and say this ?

[dms9950]

on a scale from 1-10, how bad did you want to come here and say this ?

 

About a 5.  I'm retired and have been watching football since the late 1950's and I like to talk football.  I also have a lot of Ravens friends that I watched the game with and we've been just shooting the breeze about football this year in general and I like to read other teams forums about the games against the Eagles.  Just reading through this thread I noticed that there were a number of things said that were incorrect about Kelly and the Eagles in general so I thought I would pipe up.  Take it for what's it worth and know that I'm not hear to trash talk and will probably leave this msg board until the next time the Raves/Eagles play.

[redlobster]

That sucks.  I guess Terrence Magee will see more snaps next week and the week after.  Both he and Toussaint

 

I actually like the way magee runs, I think he makes the team with Lorenzo hurting.

Edited August 24, 2015 by redlobster

[TDubbs]

I rewatched the Philly game this morning on NFLN and I was even more impressed with Waller. He showed me a few traits to make me believe he's more than just a 'project'. 

 

- Battled through contact and blocked well

- His hand placement and arm extension was more refined than I thought it would be  

- Showed some pretty soft hands 

 

It's early, and he's got a long way to go. But so far I'm very impressed with the kid and his upside. 

[The Mom Gene]

As an Eagles fan that has watched the game 3 times now and know personally a number of media members that were at the joint practices, here is my opinion of the game:

1. The Suggs hit was borderline but legal.

2. The refs ruined this game. The number of flags thrown was stupid and ruined the game.

5. The Ravens as a whole looked frustrated from the very start of the game. The Eagles tempo forced the Ravens to practice this week at a much higher tempo than they were used and they players didn't want to be in Philly for that reason. Then on top of that the general consensus of the people that I talked to that watched the joint practices, the Eagles skilled players outplayed and out practiced the Ravens players. The 11/11's and 7/7's the Eagles O had no issue moving the ball at will against the Ravens during practices and that frustration clearly was on the field during the game.

7. The Ravens D looked exhausted from the start. As for the comments about vanilla defense is a joke. They played against these same players for 3 days straight and they didn't execute correctly.

That's it really. It was a decent game but refs ruined it with the flags. Without the flags we are looking at a 27-17 score, not a 40-17 score (refs or not, the Ravens weren't winning that game).

 

I just want to address the criticism that you have for the Ravens...

 

1.  Yes, I agree the Suggs hit was legal.  And if you think that other teams aren't going to hit Bradford the way that Suggs and Brandon Williams did, then that's  pretty naive'. And Bradford is slow, and has that deer in the headlights look after every play.  We have repeatedly sacked him every time we've played him.  Go to youtube and look at the Rams/Ravens game from 3 years ago.

 

2.  Yes, the refs did ruin that game.  Even though we did commit several penalties, they couldn't keep their flags in their pants.  It was utterly ridiculous.

 

5.  You think the Ravens looked frustrated???  In case you're wondering why???  Look at #2.

 

7.  They did play a vanilla defense.  Our team tends to do that during preseason. Our focus is to look at our new guys and determine depth, not beat the snot out of our starters during the preseason.

 

and yes...  like I said, as competitive as we are, we did not game plan Read-Option...  as most teams in our Conference do not run it.  The teams that do???  tend to have the very same issue with QB protection...  (i.e.;  Vick, RGIII, Bradford, etc.)

[Purple_City39]

I rewatched the Philly game this morning on NFLN and I was even more impressed with Waller. He showed me a few traits to make me believe he's more than just a 'project'. 

 

- Battled through contact and blocked well

- His hand placement and arm extension was more refined than I thought it would be  

- Showed some pretty soft hands 

 

It's early, and he's got a long way to go. But so far I'm very impressed with the kid and his upside. 

 

Also add that he's gotten better separation than I thought he would by way of changing direction (which isn't easy for guys his size).

 

On one play, he looked like he was running a dig route that changed into an out route.  He got himself open but Schaub just missed him.  Another play he ran a post route and Schaub threw it 2-3 yards shy of Waller's feet. 

 

His route running has looked much better than his draft bio lead me to believe it would look

[dms9950]

I just want to address the criticism that you have for the Ravens...

 

1.  Yes, I agree the Suggs hit was legal.  And if you think that other teams aren't going to hit Bradford the way that Suggs and Brandon Williams did, then that's  pretty naive'. And Bradford is slow, and has that deer in the headlights look after every play.  We have repeatedly sacked him every time we've played him.  Go to youtube and look at the Rams/Ravens game from 3 years ago.

 

2.  Yes, the refs did ruin that game.  Even though we did commit several penalties, they couldn't keep their flags in their pants.  It was utterly ridiculous.

 

5.  You think the Ravens looked frustrated???  In case you're wondering why???  Look at #2.

 

7.  They did play a vanilla defense.  Our team tends to do that during preseason. Our focus is to look at our new guys and determine depth, not beat the snot out of our starters during the preseason.

 

and yes...  like I said, as competitive as we are, we did not game plan Read-Option...  as most teams in our Conference do not run it.  The teams that do???  tend to have the very same issue with QB protection...  (i.e.;  Vick, RGIII, Bradford, etc.)

 

I have to agree and disagree about Bradford.  I agree with that opposing teams may try and take shots at Bradford but I disagree about the deer in headlights looks.  Also, the NFL protects their premier QB's and if Bradford/Eagles light it up, Bradford will be protected by the refs just as Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Roth and Flacco are.  As for the read-option, the Eagles ran 3 total read-option plays for the 15 plays that Bradford was under center and it is arguable that the play that Suggs hit Bradford wasn't even a read-option but just a called delay (two different things that look similar which Kelly calls quite often).

 

The vast majority of teams play vanilla during PS and the Eagles were no different.  Our starters played no more than 19 snaps for the entire game except for our RG who played 55 snaps but that is only because he is new.  Outside of Gardner there were no starters on the field after the 3rd possession exchange - even the Eagles kicker didn't play the second half.

 

I personally do not like the read-option but it is what it is.  I do like the up tempo offense though because this is the direction football is going.  Points scored is what attracts crowds and the rules are skewing this even through penalties.  In 10 years a good defense will be one that only allows 25 points a game.  I also agree that the read option puts the QB at risk but Vick & RGIII are both extremely injury prone and just bad quarterbacks.

[The Mom Gene]

I have to agree and disagree about Bradford.  I agree with that opposing teams may try and take shots at Bradford but I disagree about the deer in headlights looks.  Also, the NFL protects their premier QB's and if Bradford/Eagles light it up, Bradford will be protected by the refs just as Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Roth and Flacco are.  As for the read-option, the Eagles ran 3 total read-option plays for the 15 plays that Bradford was under center and it is arguable that the play that Suggs hit Bradford wasn't even a read-option but just a called delay (two different things that look similar which Kelly calls quite often).

 

The vast majority of teams play vanilla during PS and the Eagles were no different.  Our starters played no more than 19 snaps for the entire game except for our RG who played 55 snaps but that is only because he is new.  Outside of Gardner there were no starters on the field after the 3rd possession exchange - even the Eagles kicker didn't play the second half.

 

I personally do not like the read-option but it is what it is.  I do like the up tempo offense though because this is the direction football is going.  Points scored is what attracts crowds and the rules are skewing this even through penalties.  In 10 years a good defense will be one that only allows 25 points a game.  I also agree that the read option puts the QB at risk but Vick & RGIII are both extremely injury prone and just bad quarterbacks.

If you like the read-option, then get used to hits like that.....  Just do yourself a favor and go back and look at Bradford games.....  His entire career has been like this.  Do you really believe that Flacco is protected by the refs???  Ha!  That's good.  Last season he had his helmet ripped off...  guess what, no flag? 

 

Jim Harbaugh tried to get things changed in 2012 for Kaepernick...  He lost his argument.  Note that he has become more of a pocket passer. 

 

Up-tempo offense...  not complaining about that.  But the whining by Philly fans is going to get quite weary after a while.  Because it's what happens to Bradford.

[redlobster]

I have to agree and disagree about Bradford.  I agree with that opposing teams may try and take shots at Bradford but I disagree about the deer in headlights looks.  Also, the NFL protects their premier QB's and if Bradford/Eagles light it up, Bradford will be protected by the refs just as Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Roth and Flacco are.  As for the read-option, the Eagles ran 3 total read-option plays for the 15 plays that Bradford was under center and it is arguable that the play that Suggs hit Bradford wasn't even a read-option but just a called delay (two different things that look similar which Kelly calls quite often).

 

The vast majority of teams play vanilla during PS and the Eagles were no different.  Our starters played no more than 19 snaps for the entire game except for our RG who played 55 snaps but that is only because he is new.  Outside of Gardner there were no starters on the field after the 3rd possession exchange - even the Eagles kicker didn't play the second half.

 

I personally do not like the read-option but it is what it is.  I do like the up tempo offense though because this is the direction football is going.  Points scored is what attracts crowds and the rules are skewing this even through penalties.  In 10 years a good defense will be one that only allows 25 points a game.  I also agree that the read option puts the QB at risk but Vick & RGIII are both extremely injury prone and just bad quarterbacks.

 

Bradford is two things : Soft as Cookie dough and has the deer in headlights look all the time (believe me I live in Kansas and saw a lot more rams games than anybody else on this board or probably any eagles fans who barely knew who he was before the trade).

 

Gonna have to disagree with you on this point Flacco and other Big Qb's (like Roethlisberger) take punishment that the likes of Brady, Manning, Brees, etc never see or is flagged when they are brushed up against.

 

It's laughable when people try to say flacco is protected like the others, how about the deandre levy hit to flaccos knee? You know the one where he was clearly diving helmet first at his knee and hit it, bending it. It wasn't even called a penalty?! 

Edited August 24, 2015 by redlobster

[codizzle]

Bradford is two things : Soft as Cookie dough and has the deer in headlights look all the time (believe me I live in Kansas and saw a lot more rams games than anybody else on this board or probably any eagles fans who barely knew who he was before the trade).

Gonna have to disagree with you on this point Flacco and other Big Qb's (like Roethlisberger) take punishment that the likes of Brady, Manning, Brees, etc never see or is flagged when they are brushed up against.

It's laughable when people try to say flacco is protected like the others, how about the deandre levy hit to flaccos knee? You know the one where he was clearly diving helmet first at his knee and hit it, bending it. It wasn't even called a penalty?!

I get Rams games as well where I live and I can second that..

Has always had that look