Pre-Season Game 1 vs Saints- The Good and the Not so good,

[redlobster]

I don't think Jacoby Jones was terrible in 2013.. He missed  four games in 2013 but by the time he came back he still made some game changing plays on special teams and even made some splashes on offense.. He also could have had his best year receiver yards wise  if he didn't play in only 12 games . I think 2014 was Jacoby Jones only  bad year as a Raven but he still was a well respected kick returner especially since he averaged about 30 yards per kick return.

 

I forgot about the injury in 13. 

[redlobster]

Arguably 13 was his best year as s deceiver but he took a significant step back in 14. I think he's sorely missed. But I think there aren't many game changing kick returners anywhere in the league... Name one...

 

Tyler Lockett looks like top notch returner for Seattle (even though it was only one game),  he was an amazing punt and kick returner at Kansas State as well.

[Cillmatic]

Our Corners are a big weakness. Seems like most of the backups aren't that good. People say Walker was good, I didn't see it. Melvin LOOKED good, he just refuses to look for the ball. hooevully those two develop, lord knows either Webb or Jimmy are going down this year, plus if we play a team with a really good WR core(i.e Indy, Green Bay) we'll need at least 4 good Corners for dime Package.

Also, Harbaugh needs to tell Pees off, there we're at least 10 plays the saints had that only succeeded because our cornerbacks are afraid and give about 20 yards of cushion. You'd think we get the message after that screen play for a TD.

[codizzle]

devin hester?

Hester not anymore I'd say

Spiller

Patterson

Mccluster

DennRd Robinson probably will be

[Willbacker]

Also, Harbaugh needs to tell Pees off, there we're at least 10 plays the saints had that only succeeded because our cornerbacks are afraid and give about 20 yards of cushion. You'd think we get the message after that screen play for a TD.

Oh man please don't talk about Pee's defense on this forum he is the Grand Poohbah. It's not telling enough that Harbs stated that for the last 8 yrs he'd love to see a stop during a 2 minute drill. Don't you realize he's top 10 in defense. lol

[Guest]

When they showed the dropped Maxx Williams TD from the endzone angle there was no way he was getting two feet down even if he hung on to the ball, all of his momentum was carrying him out of bounds and there were 2 saints players in the area for an easy force out if he tried to stall at the peak of the catch to tap his second foot down.

 

To my eye Williams never had a chance on that throw either. He was limited by the disappearing endline and did what he could.  I think he's going to be outstanding.

 

To my eye he tweaked himself or stumbled on the catch and labored to get into gear. He's not quite as fast as Pitta or Heap, but only .1 seconds behind.

 

Heap is the Standard, but if he stays healthy he's going to get love here.

[Guest]

Here's the 4th and 20 for anyone who missed it. Don't know how you could say he looks slow, that's about the same speed guys like Gronk and Witten run. At 6'4 he covers a lot more ground than you think and he's a tough tackle for anyone in the secondary.

 

 

Check the stumble after he secures the ball.

 

But agree he's fast enough, he's surveying the field for how he's gonna get those 15 yards. He gave up his body there. This guy is gonna play ball for us.

[jazz1988]

Arguably 13 was his best year as s deceiver but he took a significant step back in 14. I think he's sorely missed. But I think there aren't many game changing kick returners anywhere in the league... Name one...

 

The only ones I can think of so far are other than Jacoby Jones  is  Devin Hester, Antonio Brown,Randall Cobb,Ted Ginn, Cordarrelle Paterson and etc.

[1/28/01]

The only ones I can think of so far are other than Jacoby Jones is Devin Hester, Antonio Brown,Randall Cobb,Ted Ginn, Cordarrelle Paterson and etc.

Quite a few of those mentioned are very eh at this point in their careers.

[January J]

Tyler Lockett looks like top notch returner for Seattle (even though it was only one game), he was an amazing punt and kick returner at Kansas State as well.

yeah he looked good the other night.

[Maryland]

What did you guys think of the Art Brown vs Orr battle? I thought Brown made a nice play shooting the gap and tackling the RB for a loss near the end there. He got beat by a TE on one play, but it took a nice touch pass to do it. Orr made some plays too, didn't do anything wrong from what I could tell. 

[HoldingCall]

I don't know whether it's been mentioned in the thread but of the 25 completed passes against the Raven's secondary, five (20%) went for 20 plus yards. This is likely a weakness with the backups but it is a reflection on early depth. They were not the best WRs or QBs played against so, the secondary is still an issue until proven otherwise.

[GrimCoconut]

I liked what I saw from Brown, but then there were things I didn't really like. Yes, he shot the gap great and got the TFL, but there were other times where I saw him over pursue and make bad decisions with his angles. These moments made me wonder if he has the instincts down. I thought he had great instincts in college but moments like that make me wonder just how instinctive he is. He shows he has very good recovery speed despite his inconsistent instincts. I'm not sure if his struggles were simply nerves or if he simply just had bad instincts or maybe it was just a bad day for him. That could've been it. 

 

He did let (I think) Snead behind him, but it's not like Snead had a ton of separation. He had maybe a step on Arthur Brown and maybe that's it--maybe even half a step. I felt like Brown was practically in the guy's back pocket on that one. Snead's catch was more of a great catch with tight coverage than Arthur Brown getting beat, at least from my perspective. 

 

I think Brown earned a B performance. 

[rmw10]

I liked what I saw from Brown, but then there were things I didn't really like. Yes, he shot the gap great and got the TFL, but there were other times where I saw him over pursue and make bad decisions with his angles. These moments made me wonder if he has the instincts down. I thought he had great instincts in college but moments like that make me wonder just how instinctive he is. He shows he has very good recovery speed despite his inconsistent instincts. I'm not sure if his struggles were simply nerves or if he simply just had bad instincts or maybe it was just a bad day for him. That could've been it. 

 

He did let (I think) Snead behind him, but it's not like Snead had a ton of separation. He had maybe a step on Arthur Brown and maybe that's it--maybe even half a step. I felt like Brown was practically in the guy's back pocket on that one. Snead's catch was more of a great catch with tight coverage than Arthur Brown getting beat, at least from my perspective. 

 

I think Brown earned a B performance. 

 

Pretty much my thoughts.  You could see why so many of us liked him at time, but there were other times where you really had to scratch your head.  There were two instances I could remember where he clearly shot the wrong gap and put himself out of the play.  You could see the speed and athleticism on display but all of that goes out the window if you don't make the right decisions.

 

If Means' injury isn't serious, I think he's still in a lot of trouble.  His saving grace could be Means' health or the fact that some of the depth on the DL failed to impress.  Otherwise, it's not looking good for him.

[GrimCoconut]

Pretty much my thoughts. You could see why so many of us liked him at time, but there were other times where you really had to scratch your head. There were two instances I could remember where he clearly shot the wrong gap and put himself out of the play. You could see the speed and athleticism on display but all of that goes out the window if you don't make the right decisions.

If Means' injury isn't serious, I think he's still in a lot of trouble. His saving grace could be Means' health or the fact that some of the depth on the DL failed to impress. Otherwise, it's not looking good for him.

I think he's a coin flip but I think McClellan did bad. With his age and with other guys who can play ST, I think it's realistic Brown could stay and he could go. I think McClellan would save us a nominal amount, too. Like a million or something like that.

[rmw10]

I think he's a coin flip but I think McClellan did bad. With his age and with other guys who can play ST, I think it's realistic Brown could stay and he could go. I think McClellan would save us a nominal amount, too. Like a million or something like that.

 

Brown being on the 1st ST unit bodes well for him as well.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Alright... My review.

The Good: Well. The whole starting team did well. Our offensive line hasn't changed, and Flacco looked sharp. The running game was excellent. I was concerned with the lack of WR play. But that's mainly because Breshad is hurt. I believe that Trestman has something planned for him. Will treat him like an Alshon Jeffery. Both TE's played well. Maxx had that drop in the end zone but that was a difficult catch. Crockett looked good on a few receptions and both impressed me with their blocking ability.

Sure, he's made it before. But he's not going to make it every time(take ODB. If you honestly think he can make that now famous catch every time... Think again). Waller was impressive for a late round rookie.

Starting defense played well. Not a lot of initial pressure. But look at it this way. We stopped the run. We protected the pass well. The sacks will come. That was expected. Carl Davis played a HELL of a game. He's going to be a good player. ZDS looked like he can get pressure on the QB. Arthur Brown played well. Sure, that Brandin Cooks play was hard to swallow. But Cooks has an amazing talent of juking people out. He's going to be a great WR one day.

The Bad: The second team secondary. They played poorly. Specifically the corners. Our starting secondary is probably going to be fine.

[VeiledPsychosis]

Hester not anymore I'd say

Spiller

Patterson

Mccluster

DennRd Robinson probably will be

Tavon Austin is pretty darn good

Patrick Peterson was

[codizzle]

Tavon Austin is pretty darn good

Patrick Peterson was

Yup.. Forgot about tavon

[ravensdan]

Some of these kick returners being mentioned are hardly big time game changers. Capable, serviceable even good. Big time weapons you think can score at any time and can win a game and flip the advantage in several games. That's a different story.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Rewatching the game, I see why Butler was unable to hang on to that sideline pass from Schaub.

Because the Saints corner who was trailing Butler reflexively tried to jump over him when Butler was on his back, and inadvertently kicked the ball out of Butler's hands when he tripped over him.

Which could've been disastrous for Butler as the corner nearly kicked him in the crotch when he kicked the ball.

 

Btw, that corner hurt himself when he tripped over Butler. Just a freak play all-around.

Edited August 19, 2015 by PerpetuallyBored74

[codizzle]

Some of these kick returners being mentioned are hardly big time game changers. Capable, serviceable even good. Big time weapons you think can score at any time and can win a game and flip the advantage in several games. That's a different story.

Who would classify as game changers then?

Ones I mentioned definitely can fit game changer title

[BSHU_Miami]

I have a tiny hunch that Cordarrelle Patterson is available. If Diggs forces the Vikings into the rotation (which I believe he will) he will probably end up taking Pattersons return duties. I know we can't keep 7-8 WR, but Patterson as our kick returner has to be intriguing to the FO, no? I see redundancy in Wallace/diggs/Patterson who call can KR/PR. A conditional 6th with PT incentives that can bump it up to 5th might get it done. Just a thought.

[ravensdan]

I have a tiny hunch that Cordarrelle Patterson is available. If Diggs forces the Vikings into the rotation (which I believe he will) he will probably end up taking Pattersons return duties. I know we can't keep 7-8 WR, but Patterson as our kick returner has to be intriguing to the FO, no? I see redundancy in Wallace/diggs/Patterson who call can KR/PR. A conditional 6th with PT incentives that can bump it up to 5th might get it done. Just a thought.

He would be an intriguing kick returners. I'll give you that. But he's a bust as a wr. Not sure the bikes would be ready to admit that already.

[gabrielgrissom]

andrus peat was also in the mix for best OT in the draft. 

 

and like you said, hes a rookie, and i never said he played lights out or anything, i said he showed some serious potential and needs work to reach that potential. hes not there yet, but with the right coaching he could be special, and even with a very inconsistent night you could see that his potential is real if you paid attention. 

 

also, even suggs and dumervil get stonewalled on probably more than 50% of rush attempts, its the nature of the position, sacks arent easy to come by

hahaha yea yea yea andurs peat did very well he was the third lineman picked in the draft... yes people do get stonewalled often yes i know this he did have a sack and he did get to the quarterback every now and then so coming from a rookie i guess he did alright... dont say i didnt pay attention though  ... well see what he has tonight

[JoeyFlex5]

hahaha yea yea yea andurs peat did very well he was the third lineman picked in the draft... yes people do get stonewalled often yes i know this he did have a sack and he did get to the quarterback every now and then so coming from a rookie i guess he did alright... dont say i didnt pay attention though  ... well see what he has tonight

never said you didnt pay attention, was just saying that to anyone who did pay attention and focus in on ZDS could see that the physical traits are there and he has big potential. 

 

but its just like in baseball, you have a guy with a .330 batting average, that would land a hitter among the tops in the league, but hes still failing 67% of the time, pass rush is quite similar but i think the failure threshold is even higher, so if ZDS pins his ears back to rush the qb for 10 snaps, and gets him once, thats very successful, and if you watched him against the saints you could see that if you give this guy enough real pass rushing snaps he is gonna get one, and the more he develops the more likely he is to add em up

[gabrielgrissom]

never said you didnt pay attention, was just saying that to anyone who did pay attention and focus in on ZDS could see that the physical traits are there and he has big potential. 

 

but its just like in baseball, you have a guy with a .330 batting average, that would land a hitter among the tops in the league, but hes still failing 67% of the time, pass rush is quite similar but i think the failure threshold is even higher, so if ZDS pins his ears back to rush the qb for 10 snaps, and gets him once, thats very successful, and if you watched him against the saints you could see that if you give this guy enough real pass rushing snaps he is gonna get one, and the more he develops the more likely he is to add em up

your probably right im probably setting too high of a standard for him comparing him to pernell who was basically our michael bennett... 

[JoeyFlex5]

your probably right im probably setting too high of a standard for him comparing him to pernell who was basically our michael bennett... 

bennett is a full time 4-3DE and one of the premier players at that position. 

 

mcphee was a rotational OLB who gave good pressure but could only play on obvious passing downs and a lot of his pressure came in large part thanks to our exotic packages and supporting cast. not sure what youre getting at there

[gabrielgrissom]

bennett is a full time 4-3DE and one of the premier players at that position. 

 

mcphee was a rotational OLB who gave good pressure but could only play on obvious passing downs and a lot of his pressure came in large part thanks to our exotic packages and supporting cast. not sure what youre getting at there

mcphee was a former 3-4 end who can play inside and out just as bennett does... ?

[JoeyFlex5]

mcphee was a former 3-4 end who can play inside and out just as bennett does... ?

bennett is a pure 4-3 and full time DE, mcphee is a rotational and package player.