Can Perriman be our first 1000 yard rookie receiver?

[Tru11]

Yeah I was confused there. I was wondering when I said that crazy stuff. I was relieved I didn't post something under duress.

 

nah that was my bad lol.

i know you wont say something like that.

[gtalk12]

I don't see how drafting another WR only because we need one is a good idea. I'd would think it's better to grab the best player available.

[GrimCoconut]

well if everything is the same and he did not re injure himself or did not have any setback , id love to know how someone can go from running at almost full speed to not even practicing lol.

it does not make any sense to me tbh.

It certainly doesn't but none of this makes any sense. I also don't see why he'd lie since I highly doubt defensive coordinators are worried about this guy. He's done nothing in the NFL and needs to prove himself. No DC worth his salt will specifically game plan to stop him under these pretenses.

[Cillmatic]

I find it remarkable that Brent Urban tore his biceps (August 8, 2015) after Perriman hurt his knee (July 30, 2015)and he's looking like he'll come back before Perriman. That's ridiculous.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-breshad-perriman-leaves-first-training-camp-practice-with-knee-injury-20150730-story.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-brent-urban-suffers-torn-pectoral-muscle-20150808-story.html

This is a REALLY bad start, red flags need to be up. Imagine how long he'll be out if he falls down awkwardly next year.

[PurpleCity5]

Yeah this guy is going to have a mountain to climb. I don't even know what is up with his injury. Did he or did he not suffer a setback and if theres no new injury like the Doc said than wth is keeping him out now?

This whole thing has been down right weird and insane.

[Cillmatic]

Yeah this guy is going to have a mountain to climb. I don't even know what is up with his injury. Did he or did he not suffer a setback and if theres no new injury like the Doc said than wth is keeping him out now?

This whole thing has been down right weird and insane.

Harbaugh said(I know) he wasn't setback. He's just a REALLY slow healer. Imagine what would happen if he tore his ACL, he'd be out for like 3 seasons.

[ALPHA]

I don't see how drafting another WR only because we need one is a good idea. I'd would think it's better to grab the best player available.

 

Don't we always draft best available? we have a lot of needs so projecting one position doesn't seem realistic. Maybe there will be another situation like last offseason when Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson were available, people might shake their heads at more old receivers but we get a lot more out of unwanted veterans than the endless line of camp bodies we try to develop.

[52520Andrew]

I find it remarkable that Brent Urban tore his biceps (August 8, 2015) after Perriman hurt his knee (July 30, 2015)and he's looking like he'll come back before Perriman. That's ridiculous.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-breshad-perriman-leaves-first-training-camp-practice-with-knee-injury-20150730-story.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-brent-urban-suffers-torn-pectoral-muscle-20150808-story.html

Yeah that is pretty crazy

[Tru11]

It certainly doesn't but none of this makes any sense. I also don't see why he'd lie since I highly doubt defensive coordinators are worried about this guy. He's done nothing in the NFL and needs to prove himself. No DC worth his salt will specifically game plan to stop him under these pretenses.

 

 id tell my guys just hit him once and he will be out for the season lol

[ludy51]

I feel like this is goig to be on an NFL films episodes or something with a voice over saying "and he never played a down of football in his career" 

[ALPHA]

I don't like the idea of calling him a bust halfway through his rookie season, Ronald Darby is probably the only player selected after Perriman who has made an impact so far but I don't think he was on our radar.

[JoeyFlex5]

I agree with you with most of what you wrote Joey,but there is no way that lb/edge rusher is a bigger hole than cb or wr on this team.With the amount we've invested int he front seven in terms of draft resources,the secondary has to be the biggest focal point this offseason along with the receiving core.Ozzie's neglected them for way too long and the results are showing.Thats not to say pass rush isn't important but we can't keep doing this in which we put the majority of picks into one segment of the defense.

OLB is absolutely a bigger hole than cb. a 3-4 defense is predicated on strong OLB play and we have zadarius smith, courtney upshaw, and elvis dumervil, upshaw is as 1 dimensional a player as youll ever find, zadarius smith is still a total unknown as he has gotten 3 coverage sacks but otherwise has been invisible, and dumervil cant do anything on his own without someone to take off the pressure, and suggs is on his 2nd achilles tear and is now well into double digit seasons as an nfl player, dont be surprised if he isnt even starting material next year or ready for the season opener. so if we are starting zadarius smith and dumervil at OLB next year you are  comfortable with that? im much more comfortable addressing FS and OLB and letting jimmy and webb start at cb. webb has not been that bad this year, jimmy is coming off of an injury that has a very long recovery time and is not fully healthy yet, and horrid FS play will automatically make competent cb play look bad, zero pass rush turns that into a perfect storm of suckiness. with a pass rush and FS then our cbs will look like studs

[Cillmatic]

Meanwhile, Steffon Diggs sets rookie recievng record for most yards in his first four games and is in his way to a Pro Bowl.

[PurpleCity5]

Meanwhile, Steffon Diggs sets rookie recievng record for most yards in his first four games and is in his way to a Pro Bowl.

Imagine what he would do here as a starter. Man, I loved the guy prior to the draft, he would serve as a great insurance policy for Perriman. 

 

I don't want to change the topic, but man he's looking pretty damn good. 

[edthehead]

Harbaugh said(I know) he wasn't setback. He's just a REALLY slow healer. Imagine what would happen if he tore his ACL, he'd be out for like 3 seasons.

lmbo,,,,,

[Purple Punishment]

Nah, I could tell before we even drafted him. I remember looking at his film a week before the video of him "allegedly" running a 4.26, when that video came out I looked at his film again and knew he wasn't that fast. I've been saying it the whole time. He doesn't play anywhere near a 4.3

For comparison, Desean Jackson runs a 4.35. Perriman plays NO WHERE near that.

The only reason we drafted him was because the

FO was dumb enough to think he'd play that fast.

Can't run a route, bad hands, doesn't run fast. Bust. THATS disdain.

Same crap was said about Kelvin Benjiman....

[Purple Punishment]

Meanwhile, Steffon Diggs sets rookie recievng record for most yards in his first four games and is in his way to a Pro Bowl.

Boom goes the dynamite. We could've taken him. Tray Walker is the man though.......

[PurpleCity5]

Why do people act like route running is something a player can't develop and master? I'm not attacking anyone, but Any player can develop route running, some of the best players in the league were either average or poor at route running coming out of college. I can't fault the Ravens for falling in love with Perrimans size/speed. Can you imagine how deadly he can be if he can polish up his game? If think he would be insanely good.

Im growing impatient of this whole ordeal, but I'm just annoyed at people who point out his raw development, its not that awful. People forget that he played in a Pro Style Offense so its not like he can't adjust to an NFL offense and hasn't ran NFL style routes. My main concern is the QB-WR chemistry he has yet to develop as of now.

[BmoreBird22]

Over an ACL?

Over an ACL, for sure. I mean, obviously neither is something you want to tear, but PCL, to me, is worse simply for the fact that how often do people actually tear it? You probably have 10 to 15 ACL tears in the NFL per year and 200,000 in America every single year. It's just become so routine to tear it. PCL is just way too uncommon.

[GrimCoconut]

Harbaugh said(I know) he wasn't setback. He's just a REALLY slow healer. Imagine what would happen if he tore his ACL, he'd be out for like 3 seasons.

3 seasons? Lol I'm not liking his recovery time myself but this is a funny exaggeration and entirely that.

[GrimCoconut]

Over an ACL, for sure. I mean, obviously neither is something you want to tear, but PCL, to me, is worse simply for the fact that how often do people actually tear it? You probably have 10 to 15 ACL tears in the NFL per year and 200,000 in America every single year. It's just become so routine to tear it. PCL is just way too uncommon.

Eh I'd honestly disagree with that assessment based on what I've personally seen from patients who injured both. This is clearly a generalization but it's extremely rare for an ACL injury to not fully tear, whereas a PCL is more commonly sprained but not as often fully torn. It's also usually a tougher recovery than PCL.

You're entitled to your opinion but every ACL injury I've seen is usually more difficult in terms of recovery and its effect than PCL injuries.

Edited November 6, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[BmoreBird22]

Eh I'd honestly disagree with that assessment based on what I've personally seen from patients who injured both. This is clearly a generalization but it's extremely rare for an ACL injury to not fully tear, whereas a PCL is more commonly sprained but not as often fully torn. It's also usually a tougher recovery than PCL.

You're entitled to your opinion but every ACL injury I've seen is usually more difficult in terms of recovery and its effect than PCL injuries.

If you fully tore a PCL and fully tore an ACL, which would you rather go through?

I'll take the ACL. Like I said, there's about 200,000 ACL tears in the US every single year. The US alone makes up that number, so if we assume other industrial countries have a similar rate, we're talking millions worldwide. The research on ACL's is remarkable and it's why it's just not considered a serious injury anymore. I mean, serious as in it's not going to threaten a career, just that season. Hell, look at Adrian Peterson after he tore his ACL- he almost set the single season rushing record. 

 

The Oslo Sports Trauma Research Center based in Norway has actually taken a lot of interest in PCL injuries and from 2004-2010, they had 74 people come in for treatment. Seventy four compared to two hundred thousand. The research just isn't there for PCL's. I was reading that the research is an estimated 10 years behind. 

 

This also doesn't mention that because PCL injuries are so obscure, they often go untreated, so the injury just worsens, but that same research institute (OSTRC) found that PCL injuries, if equal to their ACL counterpart, were more likely to have a longer and more difficult recovery than ACL's. 

All things considered, I'd think an ACL is less serious. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[nyc9192]

OLB is absolutely a bigger hole than cb. a 3-4 defense is predicated on strong OLB play and we have zadarius smith, courtney upshaw, and elvis dumervil, upshaw is as 1 dimensional a player as youll ever find, zadarius smith is still a total unknown as he has gotten 3 coverage sacks but otherwise has been invisible, and dumervil cant do anything on his own without someone to take off the pressure, and suggs is on his 2nd achilles tear and is now well into double digit seasons as an nfl player, dont be surprised if he isnt even starting material next year or ready for the season opener. so if we are starting zadarius smith and dumervil at OLB next year you are  comfortable with that? im much more comfortable addressing FS and OLB and letting jimmy and webb start at cb. webb has not been that bad this year, jimmy is coming off of an injury that has a very long recovery time and is not fully healthy yet, and horrid FS play will automatically make competent cb play look bad, zero pass rush turns that into a perfect storm of suckiness. with a pass rush and FS then our cbs will look like studs

Im a lot more comfortable with Zadarius and Dumervil than with the sorry cbs that we've been putting out there the last three years.We put all these resources into the front seven but for the last couple year lb or pass rusher is always an offseason "need".We get these guys so its time to let them play and see what they have.What i'm saying is when it comes to wr and secondary concerns,ozzies willing to get whatever bandaid solution,6-7th round pick or undrafted free agent to come in and will leave it like that and rinse and repeat every offseason.Meanwhile if theres even one glaring need on the front seven,he gets it addressed.Theres clearly a bias for one sector of the defense and team and theres no way to dispute this.Even if we have a good pass rush with a good front seven like last year,our secondary still gets shredded because when you dont invest the resources in the secondary,you get exactly what were seeing right now.I also get that Pees plays a factor in this but then that would also mean that he plays a role in why we have no rush,the same way we our secondary is trash.

[redrum52]

Apparently he wasnt even the #1 WR on the Depth chart at UCF. UCF played BUMS for most of their season and he STILL only caught 50 balls. Plus he was BEHIND Aiken on OUR depth chart, anyone below Aiken is trash or not playing. Dude doesn't even have a highlight video on YouTube! Lol. Could be an average #3, that's it for me. Bust. Draft Boyd, sign Marvin Jones.

He never really played so the depth chart at that point isn't relevant.

[GrimCoconut]

If you fully tore a PCL and fully tore an ACL, which would you rather go through?

Under those pretenses I'd rather go through ACL because it's more common and the PCL is a stronger ligament than the ACL, which is why it tears far less frequently to the point that its incidence is uncommon and rare. This isn't the case, however, since his PCL is sprained and not torn, indicating the damage isn't a full tear. All evidence supports the notion that Perriman has a minor injury and if this wasn't true his agent would've likely cleared up this misconception already.

But to be honest these injuries are essentially the same. The real difference is PCLs typically sprain and ACLs typically tear. You asked which I'd prefer if both were fully torn and honestly it's essentially a wash with no scientific evidence suggesting one is better than the only but rather preference.

[GrimCoconut]

If you fully tore a PCL and fully tore an ACL, which would you rather go through?

I'll take the ACL. Like I said, there's about 200,000 ACL tears in the US every single year. The US alone makes up that number, so if we assume other industrial countries have a similar rate, we're talking millions worldwide. The research on ACL's is remarkable and it's why it's just not considered a serious injury anymore. I mean, serious as in it's not going to threaten a career, just that season. Hell, look at Adrian Peterson after he tore his ACL- he almost set the single season rushing record.

The Oslo Sports Trauma Research Center based in Norway has actually taken a lot of interest in PCL injuries and from 2004-2010, they had 74 people come in for treatment. Seventy four compared to two hundred thousand. The research just isn't there for PCL's. I was reading that the research is an estimated 10 years behind.

This also doesn't mention that because PCL injuries are so obscure, they often go untreated, so the injury just worsens, but that same research institute (OSTRC) found that PCL injuries, if equal to their ACL counterpart, were more likely to have a longer and more difficult recovery than ACL's.

All things considered, I'd think an ACL is less serious.

I think I know where you're going with this and if I'm wrong correct me but just because research is behind on PCL injuries doesn't mean Perriman is taking forever to heal as a result. I assume that's the point you're illustrating, showing how the PCL injury research is behind (and it is, I know this, hence my other reply before your edit) that of ACL may indicate why he's taking longer to heal.

On that point I just can't support you. Just because a fully torn PCL injury lacks the research of ACL injuries doesn't mean Perriman's sprained PCL should take this long to heal. This isn't a fully torn PCL nor even a grade 2 from what I've read. All information I've read indicates this is a grade 1 sprain, and that doesn't take this long to heal if there has been no set back as stated by the team and unchallenged by Perriman and his agent and the doctor.

As for your comment on how these injuries go unreported, that's valid since there's no "pop" heard with injury unlike the ACL, but his injury was known at the time of incident and he rested as a result. There's no evidence telling me whether we misdiagnosed it or not and all reports I read suggested Perriman and the Ravens correctly handled his rehab of this injury.

Edited November 6, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[JoeyFlex5]

Im a lot more comfortable with Zadarius and Dumervil than with the sorry cbs that we've been putting out there the last three years.We put all these resources into the front seven but for the last couple year lb or pass rusher is always an offseason "need".We get these guys so its time to let them play and see what they have.What i'm saying is when it comes to wr and secondary concerns,ozzies willing to get whatever bandaid solution,6-7th round pick or undrafted free agent to come in and will leave it like that and rinse and repeat every offseason.Meanwhile if theres even one glaring need on the front seven,he gets it addressed.Theres clearly a bias for one sector of the defense and team and theres no way to dispute this.Even if we have a good pass rush with a good front seven like last year,our secondary still gets shredded because when you dont invest the resources in the secondary,you get exactly what were seeing right now.I also get that Pees plays a factor in this but then that would also mean that he plays a role in why we have no rush,the same way we our secondary is trash.

jimmy smith is not sorry, and webb has actually been serviceable this year, inconsistent though. you know where we have had absolute garbage play from the first snap of the season until the last? at free safety, i cannot emphasize this enough, bad free safety is hard to spot for the untrained eye, its easy to say jimmy or webb is getting burned every other snap, but covering your zone while the FS is in the completely wrong area is a blown assignment by the safety, but all you see on tv is the cb getting beat. with a top flight FS who knows how to follow assignments, then webb and jimmy look much better. 

 

and with all the resources weve put into the front seven, one thing we havent successfully addressed is a long term pass rusher and you simply cant make it without that. an average secondary plus a great pass rush will go much further than the inverse, and with a good FS then our secondary would actually make it past "average", jimmy, webb, arrington, will hill, and jalen ramsey would make up a pretty formidable secondary, but they would still get beat with ease because theres no pass rush. 

 

lets also remember, dean pees doesnt coordinate FOR his players, if he doesnt have a safety who can communicate and is smart within the scheme, then we will struggle, we've seen communication problems, blown assignments by the safeties, wayyyy too soft coverage, and qb's having all day to throw farrr more than weve seen our cb's getting straight up beat

[GrimCoconut]

What does Dean Pees have to do with Perriman?

[nyc9192]

jimmy smith is not sorry, and webb has actually been serviceable this year, inconsistent though. you know where we have had absolute garbage play from the first snap of the season until the last? at free safety, i cannot emphasize this enough, bad free safety is hard to spot for the untrained eye, its easy to say jimmy or webb is getting burned every other snap, but covering your zone while the FS is in the completely wrong area is a blown assignment by the safety, but all you see on tv is the cb getting beat. with a top flight FS who knows how to follow assignments, then webb and jimmy look much better. 

 

and with all the resources weve put into the front seven, one thing we havent successfully addressed is a long term pass rusher and you simply cant make it without that. an average secondary plus a great pass rush will go much further than the inverse, and with a good FS then our secondary would actually make it past "average", jimmy, webb, arrington, will hill, and jalen ramsey would make up a pretty formidable secondary, but they would still get beat with ease because theres no pass rush. 

 

lets also remember, dean pees doesnt coordinate FOR his players, if he doesnt have a safety who can communicate and is smart within the scheme, then we will struggle, we've seen communication problems, blown assignments by the safeties, wayyyy too soft coverage, and qb's having all day to throw farrr more than weve seen our cb's getting straight up beat

Jimmys not sorry(I shoulda wrote that hes the exception)but hes not playing up to the contract we've given him.Webb since his last injury hasn't been the same and is no longer a #2 cb in the league and has regressed largely.I agree that free safety play shores the mediocre cb play but it can only do so much.We've tried to address pass rush but many of our picks haven't been hitting.Arthur Brown,John Simon,Upshaw,,Lewis Moore,Za darius Smith, Jernigan,Williams,Urban etc.Those are alot of talented guys and we still haven't seen a great pass rush.Not saying they have to be ray lewis but with the exception of Jerningan and Williams,non of those guys have shown anything of what they were projected to be.Simon isn't even on the team anymore.Lewis Moore is just getting on the field for the first time in 2 years.Urban's following the same path.I understand injuries happen but I'm just showing what we've invested in and how they've worked out so far.What i'm saying is that we should start investing the same resources and have the same urgency on other parts of the team.

[BmoreBird22]

I think I know where you're going with this and if I'm wrong correct me but just because research is behind on PCL injuries doesn't mean Perriman is taking forever to heal as a result. I assume that's the point you're illustrating, showing how the PCL injury research is behind (and it is, I know this, hence my other reply before your edit) that of ACL may indicate why he's taking longer to heal.

What I'm trying to get at is actually really simple- 

 

I honestly just wouldn't mess with a PCL injury and risk further injuring or even tearing it. Why is he slow healing? Hell if I know, but I do know that if the doctors think there's a chance that this could go further and fully tear, I don't want him out there given the severity of PCL tears and the little research there is. 

 

I won't speculate on why it's taking so long or what even really happened within his knee because the Ravens have been tight to the vest, but I'd rather have it take a while to heal in a season where the Ravens won't do much than have him tear it and miss more significant time next season when i expect the Ravens to do far more.