Ray Rice Comeback

[rmcjacket23]

 

1/28/01, on 06 Aug 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

There may be the perception of Rice being washed up in some circles in the league, but those cicles likely consist of the Browns, Riders, Buccanneers, etc.  Kubiaks said this time last year that he thought Rice was healthy and back to form.  If that 2nd video never surfaced or revealed something less of an incident then this discussion never gets a breath of life.  Rice comes back week 3 in 2014 and likely goes on to rush for at least as much as Forsett and he either stays a Raven or is able to gain employment elsewhere without much difficulty.  

 

Because without that second video, you don't have Goodell and Biscotti back pedalling over their investigative measures, trying to silence Ray and turn a messy Waste products of a situation into an open cesspool.  Wht Rice did was wrong.  What came after was an over reaction to something we all already knew happened, but seeing it suddenly turned us all into sheep.

 

Either Rice deserves another chance or Peterson deserves to be out on his keester looking for a job too.  Plain and simple.

 

And clearly the NFL disagrees, because they don't think its plain and simple at all. Peterson has a job, and borderline got a raise for it. Rice is unemployed. The public didn't treat the two situations the same, and neither did the NFL then or now.

 

In my opinion, Rice DESERVES precisely nothing. Deserve implies that somebody else owes you something. He should feel incredibly lucky that any team would even call him, and when/if they do, he will absolutely have to EARN any possible role he will have on that team, and probably couldn't afford to do anything even as petty as getting caught jaywalking.

 

While I agree that we the public certainly overreacted by a wide margin to the video, in modern society, that's the landscape. Reading about a crime in the paper is vastly different than actually experiencing it.

[rmcjacket23]

I legitimately forgot about Lynch, sure.

 

McCoy also.

 

Charles is an enigma. He deserves mention, but I think Rice is still better.

 

Lacy? No.

 

I love Forsett as a Raven, truly I do, but for a smaller back he doesn't use (or have?) very much lateral agility. 

 

Morris needs to learn how to catch first.

 

Gore is a great back, and maybe a hall of fame player, but at this point he's an older version of Alfred Morris.

 

Gordon and Gurley need to produce on the field before I move them up the rankings. Too many Mark Ingrams and Trent Richardsons and Darren McFaddens out there.

Wow, just wow.

 

Remember, we are talking about what Rice IS, not what Rice WAS. Arguing that a Rice's career is better than a career of some of the guys you listed as not being as good may be valid, but there's precisely ZERO realistic people on this planet who would trade Lacy, Charles or Morris for Ray Rice RIGHT NOW. He simply doesn't really offer anything that these guys don't already offer themselves. 

 

I could care less whether Morris catches passes... that's not his job. Its not AP's job either, and he hasn't had a problem making a pretty good career. You can have another RB catching passes, or you can just not throw passes to RBs.

 

If anything, Rice wouldn't be likely to be used as a pass catcher much in the league anymore either, because he's certainly lost quite a bit of his elusiveness and lateral quickness. His 2013 game tape largely confirms that for us.

[PurpleCorsair]

The way I view Rice is based on what he could have been in 2014, healthy and behind a top 3 O-Line. I think he would have been just as good as Forsett, at least.

 

 Would you trade Rice for Morris or Lacy? Probably not. They're younger and have less tread (especially Lacy) on the proverbial tires. 

[rmcjacket23]

The way I view Rice is based on what he could have been in 2014, healthy and behind a top 3 O-Line. I think he would have been just as good as Forsett, at least.

 

 Would you trade Rice for Morris or Lacy? Probably not. They're younger and have less tread (especially Lacy) on the proverbial tires. 

True, but we will never know what 2014 would have brought for him. I don't put practically any weight into BR.com articles about how great he looked in camp, because they largely think everybody looks great in camp.

 

Based on what I saw, his downfall in 2013 was certainly a combination of a number of things, Oline being certainly one of them. However, there are certainly things that I and other people saw, outside of the Oline, that gave people an indication that his play is in decline.

[January J]

Very strong understanding of their RB situations, as do those teams (another reason why Rice is a member of precisely 0 of them). Just because you've never heard of them or haven't seen them play or play well doesn't automatically mean that Rice is better than them, especially from the last thing we saw from him.

But veteran RBs than can be capable backups and "mentor" young guys are frankly a dime a dozen in this league right now. Why can't Chris Johnson be that guy? He's unemployed right now. Why can't Pierre Thomas be that guy (he was chosen for a workout by the Texans over Rice, coincidentally)? There are literally probably at least a dozen "veteran" RBs, clearly past their prime, who are desperately waiting for even one phone call from a team.

And, if we're now going past the starting role and into a backup role, you're mostly making my point for me. In a backup role, he makes sense. But, again, none of the other guys I listed knocked their wife out on video. So, for the 10th time, its a simple risk/reward analysis at that point. If the reward of that player is he'll be a backup RB and a mentor, its kind of hard to argue that there's nobody else out there that could do that with even close to as much "risk" as Rice has.

you keep bringing up the fact that he knocked out his wife and the risk/reward- but your original argument was that teams aren't convinced of his ability after 2013. Yes I know that both of these things play a role , but since you are convinced that his age and ability have more to do with him not being on a team than the video, I still haven't heard you name 32 RBs that make more sense than rice.

[rmcjacket23]

you keep bringing up the fact that he knocked out his wife and the risk/reward- but your original argument was that teams aren't convinced of his ability after 2013. Yes I know that both of these things play a role , but since you are convinced that his age and ability have more to do with him not being on a team than the video, I still haven't heard you name 32 RBs that make more sense than rice.

So do you literally want me to list all 32 of the projected starting RBs on each team or can I just say that every single projected starter on every single team make more sense than Rice at this point? I can list them if you really want me to, but we're both just wasting time at this point.

 

The key, as I stated several times already, isn't necessarily that's he certainly better or worse than some of these guys, because there's plenty of teams that are going to start rookies or unproven RBs that naturally everybody would say "well Rice has been great for most of his career, so of course he's better than an unproven guy". While that might be true, why would that team want to do that?

 

Using some of the teams that other people have already mentioned where they legitimately feel that Rice would be a starter... why would the Jacksonville Jaguars bring in Rice to start over a TJ Yeldon? How does that benefit their franchise? Can I or anybody say for certain that Rice is better than Yeldon or vice versa? No, we can't. But all I'm asking is... why do it if you're the Jags? Same thing for a team like the Raiders or Titans... you've got young RBs on the roster who you allegedly like, and you're not likely to be competing for a SB in the next year or two... so why on Earth would you sign a 28 year old veteran who's last impact on the field was a terrible one? Heck, the Raiders did exactly what we're suggesting they did last season, and it backfired horribly.

 

If I wanted to vaguely argue for teams that COULD be interested, there's a handful that come to my mind... Patriots, Cowboys and Cardinals.

 

The Cowboys don't really make much sense, because they already have a Rice-type player in Darren McFadden, and apparently they really like Joseph Randle. The Cardinals like Andre Ellington, and they also have a rookie they drafted they just like too... why start Rice over those guys?

 

The Patriots are actually MAYBE the one team that actually makes sense, but then again, Belichick hasn't cared one bit about RBs for quite some time now. He's made guys like Ridley, Vereen and Blount look like absolute studs at times, and he can make Jonas Gray look like a stud if he wants to.

 

So at the end of the day, there's really only two arguments to be made. 1. You think Rice isn't playing because no team wants to touch him due to his video (possible) or 2. all the NFL teams that, according to the public, don't have RBs better than Rice don't know what they're doing and the public knows more about evaluating RB talent than they do (unlikely, basically impossible).

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

So do you literally want me to list all 32 of the projected starting RBs on each team or can I just say that every single projected starter on every single team make more sense than Rice at this point? I can list them if you really want me to, but we're both just wasting time at this point.

 

The key, as I stated several times already, isn't necessarily that's he certainly better or worse than some of these guys, because there's plenty of teams that are going to start rookies or unproven RBs that naturally everybody would say "well Rice has been great for most of his career, so of course he's better than an unproven guy". While that might be true, why would that team want to do that?

 

Using some of the teams that other people have already mentioned where they legitimately feel that Rice would be a starter... why would the Jacksonville Jaguars bring in Rice to start over a TJ Yeldon? How does that benefit their franchise? Can I or anybody say for certain that Rice is better than Yeldon or vice versa? No, we can't. But all I'm asking is... why do it if you're the Jags? Same thing for a team like the Raiders or Titans... you've got young RBs on the roster who you allegedly like, and you're not likely to be competing for a SB in the next year or two... so why on Earth would you sign a 28 year old veteran who's last impact on the field was a terrible one? Heck, the Raiders did exactly what we're suggesting they did last season, and it backfired horribly.

 

If I wanted to vaguely argue for teams that COULD be interested, there's a handful that come to my mind... Patriots, Cowboys and Cardinals.

 

The Cowboys don't really make much sense, because they already have a Rice-type player in Darren McFadden, and apparently they really like Joseph Randle. The Cardinals like Andre Ellington, and they also have a rookie they drafted they just like too... why start Rice over those guys?

 

The Patriots are actually MAYBE the one team that actually makes sense, but then again, Belichick hasn't cared one bit about RBs for quite some time now. He's made guys like Ridley, Vereen and Blount look like absolute studs at times, and he can make Jonas Gray look like a stud if he wants to.

 

So at the end of the day, there's really only two arguments to be made. 1. You think Rice isn't playing because no team wants to touch him due to his video (possible) or 2. all the NFL teams that, according to the public, don't have RBs better than Rice don't know what they're doing and the public knows more about evaluating RB talent than they do (unlikely, basically impossible).

 

Just because you dont think any of those teams are ready to compete doesnt mean they dont think they are.

 

Quite frankly, if they didnt think they could compete I doubt they'd be coaching/playing in the league. If the idea is to make the best roster you can, and Rice is potentially an upgrade (he doesnt HAVE to be, nothing has to be proven because TC would do that) why not bring him in?

 

If you like your young guys you can still cut Rice. My point, and I think everyone elses, is that he has the ability to still be in the league. A terrible mistake is keeping him out, Others that made similar mistakes are in, That's hypocrisy.

 

And I'm not saying Rice deserves anything either - he still has his wife and isnt in jail - he should feel blessed just to have that. But if the league is going to set the precedent that certain actions are forgivable, then forgive. If they're not then don't.

 

The reason Pierre Thomas isnt on a team right now is bc he wants to still be paid like a starter and everyone in the league thinks they can get by with young drafted guys or a cheap committee approach. For all we know that could be the reason Rice has yet to have any conversations - maybe hes holding out to be paid like a starter.

 

But in all fairness, youre comparing Rice to Pierre Thomas and Chris Johnson. Aside from 1 season Rice was consistently better than both. And 2013 was an accumulation of injuries, a bad o-line, and being way too heavy in his upper body. 1 year doesnt make a trend.

 

He should get a shot to at least prove whether he can play still or not. 

[rmcjacket23]

Just because you dont think any of those teams are ready to compete doesnt mean they dont think they are.

 

Quite frankly, if they didnt think they could compete I doubt they'd be coaching/playing in the league. If the idea is to make the best roster you can, and Rice is potentially an upgrade (he doesnt HAVE to be, nothing has to be proven because TC would do that) why not bring him in?

 

If you like your young guys you can still cut Rice. My point, and I think everyone elses, is that he has the ability to still be in the league. A terrible mistake is keeping him out, Others that made similar mistakes are in, That's hypocrisy.

 

And I'm not saying Rice deserves anything either - he still has his wife and isnt in jail - he should feel blessed just to have that. But if the league is going to set the precedent that certain actions are forgivable, then forgive. If they're not then don't.

 

The reason Pierre Thomas isnt on a team right now is bc he wants to still be paid like a starter and everyone in the league thinks they can get by with young drafted guys or a cheap committee approach. For all we know that could be the reason Rice has yet to have any conversations - maybe hes holding out to be paid like a starter.

 

But in all fairness, youre comparing Rice to Pierre Thomas and Chris Johnson. Aside from 1 season Rice was consistently better than both. And 2013 was an accumulation of injuries, a bad o-line, and being way too heavy in his upper body. 1 year doesnt make a trend.

 

He should get a shot to at least prove whether he can play still or not. 

1. Sure, but it also doesn't mean that fans should honestly believe that all 32 NFL teams look at their roster at the beginning of the season and honestly say "yes, we think we have a team that can compete for a championship". If they did, then a team who still (even now) is $50M under the salary cap would have spent some of that money on other players in an attempt to build a championship team. But they don't, for a large number of reasons.

 

2. They play/coach in the league because although they may not be a "contender" now, they very well may be one later, possibly in the short-term.The Colts don't voluntarily start Curtis Painter for a large chunk of a season because they think he's a SB winning caliber QB.

 

3. Sure, you can sign him and cut him, which I advocated for already. The problem is there's risk in doing that, because if Rice outplays your young guy in camp, don't you have to play Rice? Sure, that works in the short term, except you haven't solved any long-term problems at that position. Works for a team that is in short-term mode (as I referenced earlier), but doesn't make any sense for a team in transition looking to evaluate their newly drafted or young players.

 

4. I'm comparing him to CJ and Pierre Thomas because that's his direct competition right now. Again, I doubt any teams are looking at Rice's 2011 game tape and saying "wow look how great that guy is... we really need him on our team", just like they're not doing that with Pierre or CJ either. They have a good idea of what they're going to get (probably the case with Rice also) from these guys, and they're evaluating them.

 

I have no idea why Thomas isn't signed. Part of it is likely money, and the other part is he really hasn't been a "RB" in a few years... he's basically a pass blocker who catches passes out of the backfield at this point. A lot of teams already have situational players who can do that. If he's holding out for money, either he'll accept less or won't play, because there is no third option apparently.

 

And yes, it probably is hypocrisy. But that also doesn't matter, because its not the first or the last time NFL franchises partake in hypocrisy, including this franchise. There's really no punishment for them to be hypocritical, so there's really no incentive for them not to partake in it.

[Kid87]

Well dang, I didn't mean to start a war lol. So his injury and the Video are the Red Flags. So 1000 yards rushing for Rice will prob not happen again. A 50-50 chance of getting signed if more RBs get injured this year.If he doesn't get signed this year is that the end?

[1/28/01]

Well dang, I didn't mean to start a war lol. So his injury and the Video are the Red Flags. So 1000 yards rushing for Rice will prob not happen again. A 50-50 chance of getting signed if more RBs get injured this year.If he doesn't get signed this year is that the end?

It's okay. With some here, it's always a war and defeat can never be admitted.

But yes, if he is not signed this year, I would say with almost 100% certainty his career would be over.

[gtalk12]

I think he deserves a 2nd chance, probably not with us though.

 

He has served his time and paid his dues. Both he and his wife have moved on from it and there should be no reason everyone else shouldn't.

[Tru11]

he deserves a 2nd chance and with a year off probably has something to offer.

 

people make mistakes and there people who played or are still playing who did far worse things IMO.

 

some teams could use a decent starter or at least a quality back up.

[GrimCoconut]

If someone wants to give him a chance, I wouldn't care either way. He's not our problem anymore and was never a bad guy--he just committed a crime that helped bring about change in the NFL and outside it.

I'd rather not bring him back here, though.

[Willbacker]

Other teams are probally worried about the outcry from diffrent womens orginaztions and it wouldn't be worth the grief. RBs a dime a dozen. If he was a good passrushing DE(Hardy) or a solid OLineman(Incognito) or a cheating QB(Brady) he'd get a chance. Just plays the wrong position thats all.

[Purple Punishment]

Bills just lost Fred Jackson for a little while. Buffalo has Rex and I think a few former Ravens are there

[Guest]

Ray Rice deserves a second chance. 

 

Our own team thought so, knowing FULLY what he had done. There was no hesitancy in regard to reflecting poorly upon the organization. Bisciotti was willing, Goodell was willing, Harbaugh was willing....And then the grainy video appeared.  A video which added NOTHING to what was already known.  What did those men think domestic violence looked like? 

 

The "black eye" the Raven's have as a result of the "Rice Affair" was self inflicted. It wasn't Ray Rice who threw that punch. The Raven's floored themselves so don't lay that on Ray.

 

Ray made a mistake, but did it affect the integrity of the game?  Not in the least. He played the game physically,  honestly and fairly, like the Raven's organization plays it when its football on the field.

 

We don't want to hear about public image. You're prepared to give a man a second chance or you are not. It's got nothing to do with perception.  If one lets perception guide, rather than principle, one's no better than the New England Patriots. 

 

Run Ray...Run!

 

What do you guys think about Ray Rice getting a second Chance. Would you cheer for him? What about be in the Ravens Office as A Domestic Violence Rep.?

 

 

No thanks, I'd prefer if another team gave him his second chance.

 

 

I would cheer for him (quietly and discretely) assuming he's on another team.

 

 

His crusade against the team in the Sun, along with the 'inside source' aka his trainer, was obnoxious. Just like the most recent round of pandering. Bisciotti already said he will not be back as a player.

 

If he's on another team, good for him and his family. I don't wish them any ill. The video still looms and that's what makes him hard to sign.

 

 

Like many others here, I think Ray Rice deserves another shot in the NFL, but not on the Ravens.  There is nothing that will ever make up for the actions that he committed last year, but I do not think that that one moment exemplifies who he is as a person.

 

 

I'd be surprised if any team brings him in. The chances get smaller as the days go by, teams won't want the media attention getting this close to the start of the season. 

 

 

Pretty much this. It would not only make our franchise look bad. But part of me thinks that he's done as a feature back. Why would we need him when we already have a good stable of RB's. He made a really bad mistake. Him and his wife are still together. Ray doesn't seem like the one who consistently beats on his wife.

Just not with us. Good luck Ray

 

 

My theory on 2013(and maybe a source of other issues) is that he was a little lost and fuzzy between the ears without Daddy Ray Ray around. That combined with the horrid O line play spelled disaster. 2014 he looked good in camp prior to the TMZ airing. I think he could hook up somewhere and do very well.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Danny D

[wayne]

If people still felt Ray could be a very productive RB, all these No's would be YES

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Pretty much sums up his situation:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2015/08/05/ray-rice-sabotaging-job-hunt-with-latest-interview/

 

Only question I have is how much does his poor performance in 2013 negatively influence his evaluation?

Because I'd expect his training camp and preseason play in 2014 to carry more weight in deciding if he still has anything left.

[The Mom Gene]

Pretty much sums up his situation:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2015/08/05/ray-rice-sabotaging-job-hunt-with-latest-interview/

 

Only question I have is how much does his poor performance in 2013 negatively influence his evaluation?

Because I'd expect his training camp and preseason play in 2014 to carry more weight in deciding if he still has anything left.

Yes, that's one of the more negative articles, while most others are not.  Forbes is strictly focusing on one sentence he said as the reason he's not playing.  While others are putting it simply, and basing it on performance...

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

NO!!! Cost us $9Million this year in dead cap space. I was just wondering why did he not go to the veteran combine earlier this year if he wants to be back in the league so bad?

Edited August 9, 2015 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[stampedehero]

I'd be surprised if any team brings him in. The chances get smaller as the days go by, teams won't want the media attention getting this close to the start of the season. 

That view is accurate. There are plenty of prospects rather than Ray. Rays' one bad moment crystalizes his image for any NFL franchise.  I was a total RR fan but I never traded in or threw away my  jersey. I still likes what he was as a football player.  I feel for him but he is not in a bad place because his wife loves him and he can economically survive.

[1/28/01]

NO!!! Cost us $9Million this year in dead cap space. I was just wondering why did he not go to the veteran combine earlier this year if he wants to be back in the league so bad?

Have to be invited, right?

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Have to be invited, right?

I honestly don't know if you have to be invited or not....

[1/28/01]

I honestly don't know if you have to be invited or not....

Just looked it up. You have to be and he was not one of them.

[codizzle]

Rice at his best could just "hang" with some of these guys he's been compared to

Jamaal Charles?!?!?

One of the best backs in the league easily

[Tank 92]

Rice at his best could just "hang" with some of these guys he's been compared to

Jamaal Charles?!?!?

One of the best backs in the league easily

 

 

IDK,  throw out 2013 and I think RR could have also been considered one of the best backs in the league. No?

[codizzle]

IDK, throw out 2013 and I think RR could have also been considered one of the best backs in the league. No?

Oh he definitely was but outside of AP id say the next handful are all equal backs more or less

And pass pro was a big knock on RR which I prolly value more highly than most

[Kid87]

I'm kinda young so I don't remember much, but was Ray a player better than J Lewis?

[balfan23]

I'm kinda young so I don't remember much, but was Ray a player better than J Lewis?

Not in my estimation. They were very different types of players. Ray was better in the open field and catching the ball. Lewis was more of a freight train, but had enough speed to still take it to the house. I think I give the nod to Lewis because the team leaned on him in a different way than how we leaned on Ray. Everyone in the world knew we were handing the ball to Lewis and they still couldn't stop him - especially late in games. 

[Willbacker]

I'm kinda young so I don't remember much, but was Ray a player better than J Lewis?

 

 

Not in my estimation. They were very different types of players. Ray was better in the open field and catching the ball. Lewis was more of a freight train, but had enough speed to still take it to the house. I think I give the nod to Lewis because the team leaned on him in a different way than how we leaned on Ray. Everyone in the world knew we were handing the ball to Lewis and they still couldn't stop him - especially late in games. 

Perfect explanation. A Harley compared to a Kawasaki racebike. "Give Jamal the ball".