Ravens Best LB Group

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Looking at our defense going into this season and evaluating our strengths and weaknesses our linebacker group is imo the overwhelming strength of the unit.

The starting group - Suggs, Smith, Mosley and Dumervil is pretty incredible when you think about it. Suggs/Dumervil make up arguably the best OLB duo in the league (KC and Den in the convo).

Smith and Mosley in their own right could be arguably the best ILB duo in the league, and that's even with an aging Smith and an emerging Mosley.

Put them together and I don't think it's even close that we have the best overall LB group in the league right now.... 3-4 or 4-3.

And that's not including Upshaw who's one of the better edge setting run defenders in the league.

But it got me to thinking, where does this group rank in the Ravens storied defensive history? Does this group warrant conversation with best LB groups all-time?

Honestly I've never heard much conversation looking at a group of linebackers as a whole and evaluating against each other, so it's tough to put into perspective. But you do hear about Seattle's LOB being one of the best secondaries all-time.

Our OLB pair have gotten love as a duo in national media, as have the inside two..... But how about as a whole?

[1/28/01]

Nah, a young Ray and 3 dudes off the street were better

[RaineV1]

The starting group looks good, but it does scare me a bit that three of the starters are pretty old by football standards.

[codizzle]

Peter boulware

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

We me have the best LB group in the league at this current moment... But the amazing thing is that this group isn't the best we've ever had.

Boulware

Lewis

Jamie Sharper.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Peter boulware

Personally I take Suggs over Boulware.

And of course Ray over anyone by a long shot. But Daryl and Mosley may be better than any partner he ever had.

And Dumervil, by the numbers, is the best pass rusher we've ever had (sacks and overall productivity).

That's why I brought it up. At first thought nostalgia had me laugh at the idea... But when you really get into it, it's not as clear cut as you might think. This group is severely underrated in my opinion.

Sharpers best years were arguably with the Texans. He had 5 FF in 2000 but only 50-60 tackles.

Boulware had a relatively down year in 2000 with only 7 sacks and like 30 tackles.

Ray was Ray that year. No argument there.

Last year we had 2 guys with about 130 tackles, multiple interceptions, FF and FR, passes defended, etc...

And all three of Suggs, Doom and McPhee had seasons to rival some of Boulwares best.

Edited August 4, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Clmraven]

I'd probably put the 2006 group over this years, with Ray, Suggs, Adalius Thomas and Bart Scott they all put up solid stats especially sacks and turnovers. I believe this was also the year B. Scott Absolutely Destroyed Roethlisberger, so there's that too.

[Bltravens]

Boulware, Ray and Sharper.  Sharper is the only defensive player to leave the Ravens and still excel.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

We me have the best LB group in the league at this current moment... But the amazing thing is that this group isn't the best we've ever had.

Boulware

Lewis

Jamie Sharper.

I don't know about that.

Daryl and Mosley both had better years last year than Sharpers best (which were in Houston btw not even in Baltimore though he played a diff role here).

Suggs had a better overall year than almost any Boulware ever had except maybe 2001 but Sharper was gone at that point.

Dumervil had the best pass rushing year ever for a Raven.

And Ray, while great and obviously better than anyone in the current group for his career only had ONE year arguably better than what Mosley and Smith did last year while playing with those 2 guys, and neither of those two had great years.

Both Mosley and Smith had better years (statistically) than every year that Lewis played with Boulware and Sharper aside from 1997.

So you have 2 guys playing almost on par with '96-'00 Ray Lewis and superior to Sharper over that same span AND arguably 3 guys who put up a season on par with Boulware's best from a productivity standpoint (Boulwares best sack year came in 2001, and NOT as an OLB. He played DE primarily that year).

If we're talking production, and if the argument is a group of players in one given year - last years takes the cake over Lewis, Boulware and Sharper any year the 3 were together... And honestly even if you take the best year those 3 ever had and combine them it's probably still a close argument for what this group did last year.

Edited August 4, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Sami84]

Personally I take Suggs over Boulware.

And of course Ray over anyone by a long shot. But Daryl and Mosley may be better than any partner he ever had.

And Dumervil, by the numbers, is the best pass rusher we've ever had (sacks and overall productivity).

That's why I brought it up. At first thought nostalgia had me laugh at the idea... But when you really get into it, it's not as clear cut as you might think. This group is severely underrated in my opinion.

Sharpers best years were arguably with the Texans. He had 5 FF in 2000 but only 50-60 tackles.

Boulware had a relatively down year in 2000 with only 7 sacks and like 30 tackles.

Ray was Ray that year. No argument there.

Last year we had 2 guys with about 130 tackles, multiple interceptions, FF and FR, passes defended, etc...

And all three of Suggs, Doom and McPhee had seasons to rival some of Boulwares best.

 

Bart Scott was the best run stuffing LB we have ever had in my opinion.

[The Mom Gene]

I still say that had we been able to keep the secondary healthy last year, we'd have had arguably the best Defense in the league again.  When you start to look at our front 7, and consider the likes of Ngata, Canty, McPhee, Suggs, and Dumervil...  and then add in Upshaw, Mosley and Smith???  I just don't know how people got through there...  and in reality, not too many did.  Had our secondary not gotten exposed in that game against the Cheatriots, and Torrey would have fought a little harder, we'd have surely been back in the Super Bowl last year.  I think we have a great shot at it this year if everyone stays healthy.  JMO.

[Sami84]

2006 was not shabby

 

Suggs

Adalius

Lewis

Scott

JJ

[ellicottraven]

2006 was not shabby

 

Suggs

Adalius

Lewis

Scott

JJ

Not shabby at all, but was it better than this? Lewis, Suggs, Adalius, Bart Scott and Double J (most in their primes) would be better I think by a decent margin.

[redrum52]

2006 was not shabby

Suggs

Adalius

Lewis

Scott

JJ

Was thinking 06 off top. I think it was 02-04 Ravens beasted at LB as well.

3-4 I'd say top 2 and that's taking into account Broncos going 3-4 now. I'd say it'd us and KC. 4-3, there are some good squads. Panthers and Seahawks come to mind. We can be argued as the best. Will be interesting to see the Denver D tho. Also Texans if Clowney is healthy.

[Cillmatic]

We have no weakness at this point, just strengths that aren't as strong as others.

[Blackbirds Rule]

We me have the best LB group in the league at this current moment... But the amazing thing is that this group isn't the best we've ever had.

Boulware

Lewis

Jamie Sharper.

That is one of the best LB cores you could ever have.

[Blackbirds Rule]

2006 was not shabby

 

Suggs

Adalius

Lewis

Scott

JJ

I really was sad when we had to let Adalius test out free agency. He was an absolute stud in our system.

[codizzle]

Personally I take Suggs over Boulware.

And of course Ray over anyone by a long shot. But Daryl and Mosley may be better than any partner he ever had.

And Dumervil, by the numbers, is the best pass rusher we've ever had (sacks and overall productivity).

That's why I brought it up. At first thought nostalgia had me laugh at the idea... But when you really get into it, it's not as clear cut as you might think. This group is severely underrated in my opinion.

Sharpers best years were arguably with the Texans. He had 5 FF in 2000 but only 50-60 tackles.

Boulware had a relatively down year in 2000 with only 7 sacks and like 30 tackles.

Ray was Ray that year. No argument there.

Last year we had 2 guys with about 130 tackles, multiple interceptions, FF and FR, passes defended, etc...

And all three of Suggs, Doom and McPhee had seasons to rival some of Boulwares best.

Yes.. I would take sizzle over any Ravens LB not named ray Lewis in a heartbeat

Idk how i feel about straight up stat comparisons... Offenses are completely different nowadays and last years defense compared to Ravens other great defenses are completely different as well.

[Tru11]

suggs thomas  scott lewis = our best lber core ever.

 

they where the main reason we could run organised chaos.

 

thomas could blitz , stuff the run and even run with receivers down field.

ray no need to explain.

scott could blitz , drop in coverage and was an absolute beast against the run and was probably the hardest hitter on the field.

suggs was a great passrusher and already a good edge setter.

 

scott= smith

lewis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mosley

2006 suggs <<< 2014 suggs

thomas > dumervil

 

before people get mad , remember that dumervil can only rush the passer while thomas could do that + everything else.

 

versatile players gives you the ability to be more creative.

 

that 2006 group was the most versatile group we ever had.

[Ravens4Real]

People are bringing up stats and obviously it really is the only barometer (besides the eye test) that you can use.

Need to remember that these guys today are probably seeing A LOT more snaps due to hurry up offenses and fast moving offenses. Back in the late 90's and even early 00's, hardly anyone ran the hurry up.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Ok so it looks like a consensus is forming on '06 as the best, which I probably agree... But I think it is close - definitely closer than I thought originally.

One advantage the '06 group did have was Rex Ryan - he definitely knew how to control the line and set the linebackers up to play free and clean everything up. He put them in great position to succeed. Adalius was no where near the same player in New England. Part of that was I think they tried too hard to make him a pure pass rusher which took away arguably his greatest strength which was dropping into coverage.

But the fact that this group is pretty close to the '06 crew WITHOUT an in-his-prime Ray Lewis is pretty darn impressive.

So where does that '06 group rank all time? Who are some other notables (I'll be honest, while I consider myself pretty knowledgable on the game in general... Im not as well-versed on the game pre-1996) historically? I know the Bears unit was great, and I'm sure the Steelers had some good units back in the Curtain days.

And once that's established, is this current group worth mentioning in the same breathe as some of the all-time units?

[52liveforever]

Ok so it looks like a consensus is forming on '06 as the best, which I probably agree... But I think it is close - definitely closer than I thought originally.

One advantage the '06 group did have was Rex Ryan - he definitely knew how to control the line and set the linebackers up to play free and clean everything up. He put them in great position to succeed. Adalius was no where near the same player in New England. Part of that was I think they tried too hard to make him a pure pass rusher which took away arguably his greatest strength which was dropping into coverage.

But the fact that this group is pretty close to the '06 crew WITHOUT an in-his-prime Ray Lewis is pretty darn impressive.

So where does that '06 group rank all time? Who are some other notables (I'll be honest, while I consider myself pretty knowledgable on the game in general... Im not as well-versed on the game pre-1996) historically? I know the Bears unit was great, and I'm sure the Steelers had some good units back in the Curtain days.

And once that's established, is this current group worth mentioning in the same breathe as some of the all-time units?

 

 

I agree when I stopped and thought about it last years group was something very special. Much more special than I had even realized due to the secondary hurting the overall success of the defense. the thing about last years team is that Upshaw and McPhee gave it a whole other dynamic than what you just would see on a depth chart. As far as this argument goes you cant pick against ray ray

[Purple_City39]

06 LBs >> 2014 LBs imo.

 

In terms of t he backups, JJ = Upshaw so the starters are the main focus.  Ray and Scott of 06 beat out Mosley and Smith of 2014.  Suggs vs Suggs goes to the 2014 version but Dumervil simply is not on the level of 06 Thomas.  One has to be taken off the field in certain situations and pretty much only does 1/3rd of what a LB should be able to do (rush the passer) and the other was used all over the field and a complete LB who excelled at all three phases of his position.

 

In terms of stats, the 06 starters had 10 less total tackles, 2 more INTs, 9 more passes defended, and 2 more sacks.

 

Statistically it's very close but I give the edge to the 06 bunch for being 4 complete players and slightly edging out most stat categories.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

I don't know about that.

Daryl and Mosley both had better years last year than Sharpers best (which were in Houston btw not even in Baltimore though he played a diff role here).

Suggs had a better overall year than almost any Boulware ever had except maybe 2001 but Sharper was gone at that point.

Dumervil had the best pass rushing year ever for a Raven.

And Ray, while great and obviously better than anyone in the current group for his career only had ONE year arguably better than what Mosley and Smith did last year while playing with those 2 guys, and neither of those two had great years.

Both Mosley and Smith had better years (statistically) than every year that Lewis played with Boulware and Sharper aside from 1997.

So you have 2 guys playing almost on par with '96-'00 Ray Lewis and superior to Sharper over that same span AND arguably 3 guys who put up a season on par with Boulware's best from a productivity standpoint (Boulwares best sack year came in 2001, and NOT as an OLB. He played DE primarily that year).

If we're talking production, and if the argument is a group of players in one given year - last years takes the cake over Lewis, Boulware and Sharper any year the 3 were together... And honestly even if you take the best year those 3 ever had and combine them it's probably still a close argument for what this group did last year.

 

Lost me here.........Ray was an ALL Pro in 10 seasons & 2 time defensive player of the year but only had one year that was arguably better? 

Edited August 5, 2015 by JohnnyBoy8102

[1/28/01]

Lost me here.........Ray was an ALL Pro in 10 seasons & 2 time defensive player of the year but only had one year that was arguably better?

Yeah, what? Say what now?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Lost me here.........Ray was an ALL Pro in 10 seasons & 2 time defensive player of the year but only had one year that was arguably better?

I guess you skipped the part about "while playing with those 2" meaning while playing with Boulware and Sharper as the other 2 Linebackers.

So during the stretch of '96-'00.

I thought that was pretty clearly stated.

[gabefergy]

2006 was not shabby

Suggs

Adalius

Lewis

Scott

JJ

I think that's the best LB group the Ravens have ever had, but our current group is close.

[Bltravens]

My only issue with the 06 one was that it was Adalius that made it all tick.  Scott was a one dimension run stuffer and after Ray tore his hamstring he couldn't run like he could anymore, which had made him grossly feared.  Suggs was just becoming the all around player he became from 08-present.  He was only 23 in 06.

 

The 00 one had a perfect balance I think from a football purest perspective.  Though comparing a 43 and a 34 LB corps is tough.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Bltravens

[Edgar]

You guys are forgetting Brad Jackson.

He listed himself as part of the Ravens linebacker lineage when discussing C.J. Pretty ridiculous that Brad jackson guy.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

06 LBs >> 2014 LBs imo.

In terms of t he backups, JJ = Upshaw so the starters are the main focus. Ray and Scott of 06 beat out Mosley and Smith of 2014. Suggs vs Suggs goes to the 2014 version but Dumervil simply is not on the level of 06 Thomas. One has to be taken off the field in certain situations and pretty much only does 1/3rd of what a LB should be able to do (rush the passer) and the other was used all over the field and a complete LB who excelled at all three phases of his position.

In terms of stats, the 06 starters had 10 less total tackles, 2 more INTs, 9 more passes defended, and 2 more sacks.

Statistically it's very close but I give the edge to the 06 bunch for being 4 complete players and slightly edging out most stat categories.

On the player vs player comparisons, it'd make more sense to compare '14 Suggs to Thomas and Dumervil to '06 Suggs.

And id probably take '14 Suggs over Thomas and Doom over '06 Suggs.

Even if you don't take '14 Suggs it makes the comparison a heck of a lot closer than doing it the other way.

And I'd take either Mosley or Smith over Scott. So I personally would take 3 of the '14 LB spots over '06.

The question is - does the presence of Ray Lewis as opposed to Mosley or Smith push them over the top.

Clearly it's a resounding yes.