2015 Training Camp Updates

[757RavensFan]

Still out: Perriman, Campanaro, Taliaferro, Monroe, Baldwin, Osemele (Achilles), Wesley (knee), Webb (hamstring) and Steven Means (groin).

Edited August 27, 2015 by 757RavensFan

[gabefergy]

Again you are speaking about what ifs and that becomes subjective how much said coach is willing to risk. I'm not saying keeping a 4th RB is not gonna happen or a bad idea but it's a risk vs reward type deal. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Juice get some carries in the 4th preseason game. Remember how risky people said it was to only keep 2 QBs on the roster, but Harbs didn't bat an eye. Harbs is a risk taker and if LT is only slated to miss the first couple games i see this as a risk that Harbs would take.

It's apparent, at least to me that the Ravens aren't asking Asa to show anything at CB to make this team. They are asking him to be the RS and he's done nothing to prove he shouldn't be. Asa Jackson provides enough depth at a CB position that is known for injuries to make the team as a RS. If Camp was healthy i'd be inclined to think Asa might be cut and stashed on the PS in case thwy needed him, but without Camp he's the top RS on the roster, why wouldn't the coaches keep him on the 53? Who has been given an opportunity to show they are better then him as RS? The answer is nobody. So if the coaches aren't given others a chance to show they're better with 1st team reps, that says to me that they either don't care enough about the position, which is crazy or they don't feel they have a better option then Asa right now.

It's a pretty serious what if. RBs get hurt on the regular, so it's not a scenario that is unlikely to happen. Could Juice get some carries if necessary? Probably. That doesn't make it a good idea and it certainly would limit the effectiveness and versatility of the offense. Keeping 2 QBs isn't risky. It's pretty common in the NFL when you have an established starter, especially a guy who has never missed a game.

 

This is strictly your opinion on Asa Jackson. The coaches have never come out and said that there is a roster spot open for a player that does not contribute in other facets. Being a RS certainly has value, but it is a somewhat fungible position. There are other players who can go out there and return punts. ST is always going to be a secondary determining factor in keeping a player on the 53. It's not like we are talking about a superstar punt returner either. It's going to come down to whether or not he is a good enough CB if needed.

[Ravensfan23]

Don't know that this logic works for me. Star players take reps at their positions even though they're in no trouble of being cut. Asa missing out on those snaps means he's buried in the depth chart, imo, or still has health concerns that are limiting his playing time.

Again i'm not saying Asa has done anything as a CB to make the team. I don't know why he only saw a handful of snaps at CB against Philly. Was it performance based, was it cautionary because of injury or what i don't know why he was buried on the CB depth chart. However what i do know is that he's in line (right now) to be the top Punt and Kickoff RS. Rosburg came out and said he's the top guy right now. He didn't say we'll see how this week of practice goes, he didn't say we'll see if Camp can get healthy, he flat out said Asa will be the top guy getting the returns this week. That to me suggests that Asa has to lose the RS job.

Im not saying Asa is safe or he's in line to have an impact at the CB position. However if he continues to be the coaches top choice at RS while he's not performing well at CB, then the coaches feel pretty confident that his value as a RS is enough. That's all I'm saying.

Also look at the guys who are getting opportunities to return kicks other then Asa. Camp is hurt, Nelson would be a good PS guy, but do you keep him as a 7th WR? Fitz has a great opening with LT being hurt and the possible need for a 4th RB, but once LT returns you're still looking for a RS. That's it imo, no one else has much of a shot imo. So from the looks of it, the RS will be just that because none of those guys with the exception of Camp will see much time as a position player.

[rmw10]

With Taliaferro hurt, I think it's almost certain that we'll go with 4 RBs, especially with how involved they are in the passing game.  I can't see us taking the risk on such a volatile position.

[beanfigger]

Who will get the IR-DTR tag will be interesting. Do we use it on rotational defensive guys like Elam or Urban? Does Pitta get it? Is LT's injury serious enough for it? None of the above and save it? It'll be interesting.

[rmw10]

Who will get the IR-DTR tag will be interesting. Do we use it on rotational defensive guys like Elam or Urban? Does Pitta get it? Is LT's injury serious enough for it? None of the above and save it? It'll be interesting.

 

Curious as well.

 

Pitta will hang out on PUP so no need to use it there.  Taliaferro is a 4-6 week injury according to reports, so that'd put him back around week 4 assuming it's on the longer side and those reports are right.  Would we want to shelve him at least 4 additional weeks assuming the timeframe is true?  Do we use it on Elam or Urban with the chance that they might not actually make it back?  I think I'd save it, personally.

[Ravens2343]

Curious as well.

 

Pitta will hang out on PUP so no need to use it there.  Taliaferro is a 4-6 week injury according to reports, so that'd put him back around week 4 assuming it's on the longer side and those reports are right.  Would we want to shelve him at least 4 additional weeks assuming the timeframe is true?  Do we use it on Elam or Urban with the chance that they might not actually make it back?  I think I'd save it, personally.

 

As of now I would want to use it on Urban.  Its really only between Elam and Urban and if Brooks would not have come back as soon as he did I probably would have leaned towards using it on Elam.  Urban was playing extremely well before he got hurt earlier in camp and if he can come back and give a mid season pass rush boost then I am all for it.  When Urban went down they said a 8-12 week injury and it has already been about 3?  This all is based on the assumption we use by week 1 and don't save it for in season.

[beanfigger]

Curious as well.

Pitta will hang out on PUP so no need to use it there. Taliaferro is a 4-6 week injury according to reports, so that'd put him back around week 4 assuming it's on the longer side and those reports are right. Would we want to shelve him at least 4 additional weeks assuming the timeframe is true? Do we use it on Elam or Urban with the chance that they might not actually make it back? I think I'd save it, personally.

Pitta would be most likely if they feel his injury is longer than PUP lets him hang without taking a roster spot, yet they feel he has a good chance to be back at some point during the season. If not, save it. Elam/Urban would be rolling the dice that nobody more valuable needs it later. LT is probably more of a possibility if they really want that extra spot during the first month, but we should manage with 52 if he really will be back that early.

[GrimCoconut]

Here's a fun little article from a year ago:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2014/09/giants_wr_odell_beckham_ive_heard_quite_an_earful_from_fans.html

Not a true parallel but pretty similar and could have similar changes in perception. Remember that perception can change so quickly. I wouldn't label anyone just yet.

[rmw10]

Pitta would be most likely if they feel his injury is longer than PUP lets him hang without taking a roster spot, yet they feel he has a good chance to be back at some point during the season. If not, save it. Elam/Urban would be rolling the dice that nobody more valuable needs it later. LT is probably more of a possibility if they really want that extra spot during the first month, but we should manage with 52 if he really will be back that early.

 

PUP is actually better for longer injuries.  They have a max of 12 weeks they can spend on the list.  No sense is using our one designation for a guy that we can keep on a similar list.

[berad]

Again i'm not saying Asa has done anything as a CB to make the team. I don't know why he only saw a handful of snaps at CB against Philly. Was it performance based, was it cautionary because of injury or what i don't know why he was buried on the CB depth chart. However what i do know is that he's in line (right now) to be the top Punt and Kickoff RS. Rosburg came out and said he's the top guy right now. He didn't say we'll see how this week of practice goes, he didn't say we'll see if Camp can get healthy, he flat out said Asa will be the top guy getting the returns this week. That to me suggests that Asa has to lose the RS job.

Im not saying Asa is safe or he's in line to have an impact at the CB position. However if he continues to be the coaches top choice at RS while he's not performing well at CB, then the coaches feel pretty confident that his value as a RS is enough. That's all I'm saying.

Also look at the guys who are getting opportunities to return kicks other then Asa. Camp is hurt, Nelson would be a good PS guy, but do you keep him as a 7th WR? Fitz has a great opening with LT being hurt and the possible need for a 4th RB, but once LT returns you're still looking for a RS. That's it imo, no one else has much of a shot imo. So from the looks of it, the RS will be just that because none of those guys with the exception of Camp will see much time as a position player.

Ok, I understand that more.

I think Rosburg almost divorces himself from what the other coordinators think. He'll choose the best guy with what he has available. Jackson may be the best for Rosburg but not for Pees. Then, when it comes down to whittle to 53, if the choice is between Jackson or someone like Darren Waller, Albert McClellan, etc they'd have to decide that value.

My point was that there are probably better returners on the street right now than Asa and isn't producing in the secondary to justify keeping him over a better player. This is just what I've seen and in my opinion, of course.

[Ravensfan23]

It's a pretty serious what if. RBs get hurt on the regular, so it's not a scenario that is unlikely to happen. Could Juice get some carries if necessary? Probably. That doesn't make it a good idea and it certainly would limit the effectiveness and versatility of the offense. Keeping 2 QBs isn't risky. It's pretty common in the NFL when you have an established starter, especially a guy who has never missed a game.

 

This is strictly your opinion on Asa Jackson. The coaches have never come out and said that there is a roster spot open for a player that does not contribute in other facets. Being a RS certainly has value, but it is a somewhat fungible position. There are other players who can go out there and return punts. ST is always going to be a secondary determining factor in keeping a player on the 53. It's not like we are talking about a superstar punt returner either. It's going to come down to whether or not he is a good enough CB if needed.

It's only common because more people are doing it but when 90% of the league was keeping 3 QBs, it was viewed as a risk to only keep 2. Yes it would be a big risk but it's not a 16 game risk and again I'll ask, when is the last time you've seen two RBs get hurt in the same game? That'd be considered more of a freak occurrence then a common thing if that were to happen. Asking Juice to carry the ball may be a bad i'd but that comes with the risk. That's the same as losing your LS. You don't have a backup for him and you certainly aren't just gonna do away with Kicking and Punting, so you find a player thats just good enough to get you through the game so you can fix the problem. I'm not suggesting Juice be turned into Leron McClain, but if both Forsett and Juice got hurt in a game you can bet the game plan is changing anyway. The coaches may or may not decide to keep a 4th RB for a couple weeks. Harbs is a risk taker and this is one risk i could see him taking That's all I'm saying.

Isn't majority of the stuff we talk about based on an opinion, be it our own or someone elses? No coach has said there is a roster spot for a specialist just like no coach hasn't said that. My opinion is all i can give because i don't communicate with Harbs and I'm not among the decision makers for the Ravens. All i can go on is what i see and hear. I saw Asa as the top Punt Returner in both games and the top KO Returner in the Eagles game. I also heard Jerry Rosburg say that Asa would be the top guy this week. Usually the top guy at a position during the 3rd preseason game is likely to be the favorite, thus may opinion was formed that Asa is the favorite to win the RS job. I also saw Asa not get many reps at CB in the Eagles game and was admittedly puzzled by it. However i hear good things about him as a RS. Thus my opinion was formed that if Asa makes the team and doesn't get much action as a CB, then he made the team as a RS. Never said he was great at it or a superstar, just based on what i see and heard, Asa is the guy right now. We'll see how it plays out.

[izvoodoo]

IN other news, according to breshad perriman its another blessing.

 

Maybe he has degenerative knees.

 

Im also sick of the ravens not being clear about his status. Its been a month on sunday and he was in a knee brace most recently

 

maybe its time to come clean on what could really be the issue with perriman.

 

clearly even if he was a fast healer ( which he isn't) harbs saying the doctors said a couple of days is a flat out lie.

 

As perriman is saying nothing on twitter apart from '' its a blessing'' everyday and with no other information i'm getting to the point where i feel the doctors missed something on perriman and the organization is too embarrassed to admit it

You know the organization owes us nothing and these are medical professionals we're talking about?

 

 

Obviously the guy is a slow healer.  Also Perriman isn't going to give up to the date info on his twitter. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by izvoodoo

[Ravensfan23]

Ok, I understand that more.I think Rosburg almost divorces himself from what the other coordinators think. He'll choose the best guy with what he has available. Jackson may be the best for Rosburg but not for Pees. Then, when it comes down to whittle to 53, if the choice is between Jackson or someone like Darren Waller, Albert McClellan, etc they'd have to decide that value.My point was that there are probably better returners on the street right now than Asa and isn't producing in the secondary to justify keeping him over a better player. This is just what I've seen and in my opinion, of course.

Oh i don't doubt the Ravens would bring on a FA to return kicks. Ozzie basically said if those guys aren't getting the job done he has his eye on a few things when camp started. I'm just going off of what we have in front of us. That FA isn't here and I'm not on those terms with Ozzie to know what he's thinking. So i just go off what's happening not the what ifs. I'd love for the RS to either be dynamic or a contributor to another position but right now that's not the case.

[RayRocks]

As of now I would want to use it on Urban.  Its really only between Elam and Urban and if Brooks would not have come back as soon as he did I probably would have leaned towards using it on Elam.  Urban was playing extremely well before he got hurt earlier in camp and if he can come back and give a mid season pass rush boost then I am all for it.  When Urban went down they said a 8-12 week injury and it has already been about 3?  This all is based on the assumption we use by week 1 and don't save it for in season.

 

Personally, I think the option is either Urban, or "save it just in case."  I think it really will be an evaluation next week where the doctors will give an update on his recovery and if he's on pace for an October return, then it might be worth using.

 

I think in the 4 years (if my memory serves) of the IR-designate to return, we only used it once (on Ray Lewis).  The number of "major" in-season injuries that occur and are less than a 12 week return time-table are pretty slim, and I think most of those seem to be "minor" fractures or muscle tears.  It seems that all other season ending injuries as a 3-10 month recovery process. 

 

The team very well could lose an important player to one of those returnable "major" injuries and get a star back for a playoff run, but that's assuming that IF we lost a "star" player we'd even be eligible for the playoffs to begin with.  The reason Ray was given the ID-DR was because he was an older star who was on his last ride despite being a shell of his former self, physically.  He happened to suffer an injury that put him exactly at the time-table that would bring him back for the playoffs, and because the backups were just as capable as he was, physically, at that point we didn't really miss too much.  There aren't many situations I can think of with this team where the same thing would happen because there isn't great depth under our "star" players (Flacco, Suggs, Jimmy, SSS, Tucker, etc.).

 

Personally, for these reasons, I'm in favor of using the IR-DR on Urban... but there is definitely a risk involved.  However, getting a fresh pass rusher onto the team mid-season could be exactly the boost we'd need after the bye week so there are possible great rewards as well.

[January J]

Wouldn't he need more practice? He basically missed training camp. Zero practice, coming off of a nagging injury. If he wasn't a first round pick He'd probably below Waller on the depth chart when he comes back. So like the 6th receiver. I just don't see him coming back to practice this week and he'll need some time to practice before we throw him into a game against a team as good as Denver. Have you SEEN that defense? Why would we put an inexperienced WR with no practice and coming off an injury go against the second best secondary in the league?

if he's not 100 % all we will need him to do is run in a straight line and run some basic routes. That will still be better than not having him on the feild and doesn't require much practice. Is it ideal ? Ofcourse not, but whatever it takes to help us win. That first game is extremely important for us to come away with a win to set the tone for the season.

[January J]

When is the last time you saw two RBs get hurt in one game? Is it possible? Yes but so is 2 QBs getting hurt. Keeping a 4th RB is a luxury and I'm not sure the Ravens can afford it right now. Even though he has no RB experience, if both Forsett and Allen go down then you expect Juice to step up and hope he can get you through the game. So we'll see.

You may not think Asa is that guy but the coaches seem to think he is and he isn't doing anything to prove otherwise right now. Asa has done a really solid job considering. Go back and watch the opening kickoff vs Philly. He did everything right as a returner and probably would have had a huge return. Problem was he had 3 rookies running the wedge and two of them missed assignments. I'm not sure what the deal is at CB, but he's impressing coaches with his decision making as a returner right now. Seeing as how the primary RS is basically a starting position, i think that would place Asa ahead of anyone else fighting for one of the final spots.

I just can't see keeping a final OL over your top RS. For the record i have Jensen making it outright for a total of 10 Olineman. But if it did come down to jensen vs Jackson i can't see keeping Jensen over your top RS especially when you have Urschel, Yanda, Zuttah and Reid who can play multiple positions on the oline.

When the coaches come out and say that Asa Jackson will be the top guy a full week before the game, imo it's safe to say he's their top guy right now and he'll have to play himself out of that position which he isn't right now. The coaches seem frustrated with Camp's injury history, so right now it's Asa or someone outside the organization imo.

yeah right now the coaches have Asa as that guy basically by default. Out of all our choices he's the "least bad"..

Personally I don't think out KR is currently on the team.

Man I wish we would have snagged diggs in the 4th.

[GrimCoconut]

Did Urban require surgery? I don't think Elam or Urban are officially IRed yet, meaning we could use it on either. I could see the team use it on Elam depending on how we feel about the position group.

[Sami84]

Personally, I think the option is either Urban, or "save it just in case."  I think it really will be an evaluation next week where the doctors will give an update on his recovery and if he's on pace for an October return, then it might be worth using.

 

I think in the 4 years (if my memory serves) of the IR-designate to return, we only used it once (on Ray Lewis).  The number of "major" in-season injuries that occur and are less than a 12 week return time-table are pretty slim, and I think most of those seem to be "minor" fractures or muscle tears.  It seems that all other season ending injuries as a 3-10 month recovery process. 

 

The team very well could lose an important player to one of those returnable "major" injuries and get a star back for a playoff run, but that's assuming that IF we lost a "star" player we'd even be eligible for the playoffs to begin with.  The reason Ray was given the ID-DR was because he was an older star who was on his last ride despite being a shell of his former self, physically.  He happened to suffer an injury that put him exactly at the time-table that would bring him back for the playoffs, and because the backups were just as capable as he was, physically, at that point we didn't really miss too much.  There aren't many situations I can think of with this team where the same thing would happen because there isn't great depth under our "star" players (Flacco, Suggs, Jimmy, SSS, Tucker, etc.).

 

Personally, for these reasons, I'm in favor of using the IR-DR on Urban... but there is definitely a risk involved.  However, getting a fresh pass rusher onto the team mid-season could be exactly the boost we'd need after the bye week so there are possible great rewards as well.

 

 

It really depends ...if we don;t get any serious injuries to key players etc. I for one said earlier that the Urban loss is bigger than people think. You are right..its been 3 weeks now..it will be 5 by the time the season starts..so at worst he would be out for 7 weeks and at best 3 weeks. So lets be optimistic and say he would be back training after week 4. 

 

I think he should return...i think he can make it easy into the season. The bulk of his recovery ( 5 weeks) will already be there come the broncos game. So its just 4-6 games out I feel. 

[January J]

how inconvenient..

wasted first round pick..should have traded back..got lockett and another 3rd round pick and possibly traded up with that pick to get quinton rollins who's a playmaker.

woulda coulda shoulda man. We have to roll with what we got so shutup and have some faith.

[Edgar]

It's a pretty serious what if. RBs get hurt on the regular, so it's not a scenario that is unlikely to happen. Could Juice get some carries if necessary? Probably. That doesn't make it a good idea and it certainly would limit the effectiveness and versatility of the offense. Keeping 2 QBs isn't risky. It's pretty common in the NFL when you have an established starter, especially a guy who has never missed a game.

 

This is strictly your opinion on Asa Jackson. The coaches have never come out and said that there is a roster spot open for a player that does not contribute in other facets. Being a RS certainly has value, but it is a somewhat fungible position. There are other players who can go out there and return punts. ST is always going to be a secondary determining factor in keeping a player on the 53. It's not like we are talking about a superstar punt returner either. It's going to come down to whether or not he is a good enough CB if needed.

I quote any post that has within it the word, fungible.

[jbwnbf]

Will hill 2 year contract!

[Drew P]

Looks like Martavis Bryant will be out for a few games

[RayRocks]

It really depends ...if we don;t get any serious injuries to key players etc. I for one said earlier that the Urban loss is bigger than people think. You are right..its been 3 weeks now..it will be 5 by the time the season starts..so at worst he would be out for 7 weeks and at best 3 weeks. So lets be optimistic and say he would be back training after week 4. 

 

I think he should return...i think he can make it easy into the season. The bulk of his recovery ( 5 weeks) will already be there come the broncos game. So its just 4-6 games out I feel. 

 

I believe IR-DR means a minimum of 8 games, with a maximum of 10 before you have to be active.  If Urban really is just 4-5 weeks away from being ready to play, then there's also the option to leave him on the active roster and just keep him inactive for the first quarter of the season (at least one DL will be inactive anyway).  The only issue there comes if we suffer other injuries on the DL.

 

I'm expecting his recovery to be at least 6-7 weeks into the season, which would give him another few weeks to get back in shape before coming off the IR-DR.

[rmw10]

I believe IR-DR means a minimum of 8 games, with a maximum of 10 before you have to be active.  If Urban really is just 4-5 weeks away from being ready to play, then there's also the option to leave him on the active roster and just keep him inactive for the first quarter of the season (at least one DL will be inactive anyway).  The only issue there comes if we suffer other injuries on the DL.

 

I'm expecting his recovery to be at least 6-7 weeks into the season, which would give him another few weeks to get back in shape before coming off the IR-DR.

 

Yep.  If you use the designation, the player has to be out at least 8 weeks.

[Ravens2343]

I believe IR-DR means a minimum of 8 games, with a maximum of 10 before you have to be active.  If Urban really is just 4-5 weeks away from being ready to play, then there's also the option to leave him on the active roster and just keep him inactive for the first quarter of the season (at least one DL will be inactive anyway).  The only issue there comes if we suffer other injuries on the DL.

 

I'm expecting his recovery to be at least 6-7 weeks into the season, which would give him another few weeks to get back in shape before coming off the IR-DR.

 

It all depends on how the rest of the preseason shapes up.  Its still about 10 days from final cutdowns and I think if you IR someone and don't want to expose them to waivers, you have to wait until September 5th or 6th to do that.  Therefore, if no more injuries happen I think Urban should be the guy.  I do like the idea of keeping him active though if he is progressing well and wont be out more then 4-5 weeks.  I don't want to be a pessimist or anything, but maybe the coaches will look into using it on Perriman if he cannot get right.  I hope I am wrong on that though and he is active for week 1.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ravens2343

[rmw10]

It all depends on how the rest of the preseason shapes up.  Its still about 10 days from final cutdowns and I think if you IR someone and don't want to expose them to waivers, you have to wait until September 5th or 6th to do that.  Therefore, if no more injuries happen I think Urban should be the guy.  I do like the idea of keeping him active though if he is progressing well and wont be out more then 4-5 weeks.  I don't want to be a pessimist or anything, but maybe the coaches will look into using it on Perriman if he cannot get right.  I hope I am wrong on that though and he is active for week 1.

 

We'll likely see what the plan is on Tuesday when the cut to 75 is due.  That's when guys can officially be moved to IR without having to go through waivers.  We have to wait until the Tuesday after final cuts to move someone to IR-DTR, if we want to use it course.  We might get a clue based on who gets placed on IR this Tuesday and who lasts beyond that to see who is being considered.

[Ravens2343]

We'll likely see what the plan is on Tuesday when the cut to 75 is due.  That's when guys can officially be moved to IR without having to go through waivers.  We have to wait until the Tuesday after final cuts to move someone to IR-DTR, if we want to use it course.  We might get a clue based on who gets placed on IR this Tuesday and who lasts beyond that to see who is being considered.

 

Thanks for the clarification! You are right the, Tuesday should provide a lot of clarity on who it might be used on.  I had high hopes for Urban this offseason so that's why I am leaning towards him.  Plus I do not trust Canty, Tyson or KLM to provide the type of pass rush that Urban can from that end spot.

[DomMcRaven]

I've been reading more about his condition and a lot of people DON"T just get over OP. Someone even posted on the russell street fb page and said he has OP and its never really left.

 

I'm just saying..stop believing the Dr's and Harbs aren't terrified to crap that they have messed up on perriman.

 

Stop believing everything you are told okay? Look at all cases..see whats happened..dont be a sheep

For the record, I'm talking only about you're constantly bringing up Perriman saying "iz a blessin" or however he says it. Like I'm sure he wanted to miss all of the time with his unfortunate injury.

 

Believe everything that I'm told? Huh? What are you talking about? By your logic, I agree with Harbaugh not preparing against the Eagles despite it being a preseason game. As far as me being a sheep, you're sadly mistaken. I can think and talk for myself. Always have and always will.

[BmoreBird22]

If all you are gonna do is use Perriman to run 9 routes then a defense will be smart enough to either put their fastest DB on him or play off. 

Worked out well to defend Randy Moss, right?