[News] Late For Work 7/22: NFL Front Office Executives Rank Joe Flacco

[BR News]

How to feel about Pitta? Temper expectations for Williams. Saunders has HIGH praise for Harbaugh.

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[757RavensFan]

Honestly, I've tempered my expectations about Maxx Williams after reading all the praise about Boyle during rookie camp, OTA's and mini-camp and very litte about Williams.

[jravens13]

There is a Ray Lewis coaching tree for defensive coordinators. Just wait and watch for the Joe Flacco coaching tree to develop. These guys are foolish to devalue Flacco's success in the league. What more could you ask for in terms of consistency in the Regular Season than making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years??? Then you talk about how he steps it up in the Playoffs and you are looking at a guy who gives you a legitimate shot to win a SB every year. He is a Top 10 Regular Season QB and a Top 3 Postseason QB.

Edited July 24, 2015 by jravens13

[jrubin80]

These so called experts have no idea what they are talking about with Flacco. The Ravens defense has been decent by by no means good for the past 5 years

[salamander]

Typical and predictable snub on Joe. Not worried about Joe excelling. I do think Joe will be more consistent during the regular season this year but Joe's perceived success depends largely upon his receiving corps. If these inexperienced new receivers can have relative success given the disadvantage of their youth, such as hang on to the ball and run their routes, etc, Joe will light it up this year.

Edited July 22, 2015 by salamander

[MichaelJ34]

I guess Maxx is a lil inconsistent?

[whobilly]

I'd say the rating is fair. Joe will move into the top six spots within two years. On another note that 3rd and 13 pass to Pitta in OT out of the endzone in the playoff game vs Denver was one of the biggest plays in Ravens history. If we have to punt, Broncos get the ball on the Ravens 35 to 40.......game over.

[rmcjacket23]

There is a Ray Lewis coaching tree for defensive coordinators. Just wait and watch the Joe Flacco coaching tree to develop. These guys are foolish to devalue Flacco's success in the league. What more could you ask for in terms of consistency in the Regular Season than making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years??? Then you talk about how he steps it up in the Playoffs and you are looking at a guy who gives you a legitimate shot to win a SB every year. He is a Top 10 Regular Season QB and a Top 3 Postseason QB.

Consistency in that regards would come in the form of statistical production, which I know some people completely hate to look at and often completely disregard, but people in the actual NFL business do not disregard these things.

Joe has always struggled on a week to week basis with consistency in the regular season... nobody can dispute that. We've seen him look like Joe Montana reincarnated in regular season games, and the next week, he throws 2-3 horrific interceptions. We've all seen it, so there's no point in ignoring it. Its happened basically every season I can remember.

Whether we like it or not, players, coaches, FO's and beat writers don't just exclusively look at the W-L column with QBs to determine where they "rank" amongst their peers. They look at the total package. They look at wins, losses, statistical production, leadership, etc.... probably a dozen or more factors.

[MichaelJ34]

Is all this hate for the Ravens and Flacco because noone really wanted us to have a Team? So when Modell took our offer we became the hated city?

You cannot say that a QB who has 1 SB consistently pass for upper 3K yards and is around 20 Tds is second tier especially when giving the argument about the OC argument which contradicts their complete argument. 4 OC's and Joe still gets the job done. Playoffs 6 out of 7 years and this will be his second year in the same style system with another year under his belt you should see him light it up and be more productive even with young WRs and TE. The system will help the young guys as well as Flacco

[Godfather A]

What most people fail to realize is that Joe is in 10th place all time for playoff wins in a career. Five more over the rest of his career would tie him with Joe Montana for second place all time. The six retired quarterbacks ahead of him are in the Hall of Fame. The three active ones are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger.

[757RavensFan]

I'd be willing to bet at least 25 teams would trade their current QB for Flacco.  Since camp is starting today (rookies), I HOPE and PRAY this is the last article we see EVER regarding Flacco's ranking, if he's elite, contract and abilities.  He's the best the Ravens ever had and he'll probably do it for at least 5-7 more years before hanging up his cleats.  All he does is win, let the man live!!

[eek]

ESPN is such a joke with their rankings why even post them. How could anyone rate Russel Wilson higher than a tier 3 is mind boggling.

[bioLarzen]

Some of us have been saying this since draft day: it may be unfair and misleading putting too much faith in Maxx Williams as an immediate #1 cacthing TE. Why? OIf course NOT because he doesn't have what it takes to become one - but because he is a TE, and TE's usually take a bit more time to get used too playing in the NFL. See how both the fans and the player were disappointed and hurt about Eric Ebron's rookie season performance. He was almost unanimously declared a day-1 starter. Of course he couldn't deliver. Not because he couldn't become a great TE - but because TIGHT ENDS TYPICALLY NEED MORE TIME. While RB's and WR's seem more and more NFL-ready coming out of college, TE's not so much. The worst thing we could do to Maxx is to put that kind of weight on him. He's still very young, even by NFL standards, and surely he has a lot to learn. What we should do - and I'm sure Harbaugh will do - is give him enouh time and patience.

 

What does that mean? It means that if Pitta goes on the PUIP-list - seems all but official at this point - then we'll definitely lack true veteran presence at the position, and exactly when we'd need it most for Maxx to mentor. Consequently, I would think we should definitely try to bring in a real - vested - veteran catching TE at least for the camp. Gresham seems to have better options (with more possible playing time), but there are other vets put there, players like Zach Miller who could probably be a good mentor...

[bioLarzen]

I guess Maxx is a lil inconsistent?

 

Basically every rookie is inconsistent. Even the best ones.

[Raven_Don]

Will Hill stole my workout routine.. Lol...

[BMORE = BEASTING]

LOL.... Aaron Rogers and Drew Brees, are not even consistent. I am happy the Ravens have a consistently winning QB.

[FastEddie]

Some of us have been saying this since draft day: it may be unfair and misleading putting too much faith in Maxx Williams as an immediate #1 cacthing TE. Why? OIf course NOT because he doesn't have what it takes to become one - but because he is a TE, and TE's usually take a bit more time to get used too playing in the NFL. See how both the fans and the player were disappointed and hurt about Eric Ebron's rookie season performance. He was almost unanimously declared a day-1 starter. Of course he couldn't deliver. Not because he couldn't become a great TE - but because TIGHT ENDS TYPICALLY NEED MORE TIME. While RB's and WR's seem more and more NFL-ready coming out of college, TE's not so much. The worst thing we could do to Maxx is to put that kind of weight on him. He's still very young, even by NFL standards, and surely he has a lot to learn. What we should do - and I'm sure Harbaugh will do - is give him enouh time and patience.

 

What does that mean? It means that if Pitta goes on the PUIP-list - seems all but official at this point - then we'll definitely lack true veteran presence at the position, and exactly when we'd need it most for Maxx to mentor. Consequently, I would think we should definitely try to bring in a real - vested - veteran catching TE at least for the camp. Gresham seems to have better options (with more possible playing time), but there are other vets put there, players like Zach Miller who could probably be a good mentor...

 

Interesting thought on adding veteran leadership considering Pitta's situation. I think it would be a good idea honestly. I really wouldn't count Maxx short yet...I mean I don't think they would try and use him to the degree that Ebron was used from sheer athleticism and rookie perspective.

 

...at least wait until TC starts. Or maybe I'm just to confident haha

[stixfix69]

Joe might be inconsistent, but he does find ways to win games....This league has proven one thing, QB's can certainly lose you games, and that hasn't been the case for Flacco seeing he has won more than lost..What makes Flacco a top QB IMO is he can struggle for 3 quarters but then handles his business in the 4th to get the win, many QB's just flat out stink game after game, after game....And we are never out of a close game with Flacco running the offense, just like the last game against Cleveland last year, he stunk for most of the game, but when we needed him most, he delivered....That's what the top QB's can do on a consistent basis....Win....

[BMORE = BEASTING]

Has Drew Brees even out-battled Joe while on the field together???? NO!

[respecttheRaven]

I think we will be ok with Crockett Gillmore and the current tight ends we have. Also, isn't Kyle Juszczyk a fullback/TE hybrid?? Maybe, he could be implemented somehow onto the field? Especially, since the FB position isn't one Trestman uses very much. I don't know...it's just the thought that in order to bring in a veteran player, someone has to go.

Maybe they will wait and see just how thing's go in training camp, and if they don't like what they see....then they might bring in veteran help. All I know is, I am ready for some football!!!!

[Raven_Don]

Russel is a better than average QB... He is a perfect balance of a pocket passer and scrabbling... He buys time to pass rather than run..but isn't afraid to pick up yards on the ground... He has been consistent without a great supporting cast of WR's... 3 playoff appearances with back to back Super Bowl appearances... Lets be honest we would be more than happy with that if he was the future of the Franchise... Flacco has never been consistent but what he has over Wilson is his big arm... And ability to take his play to another level... He beat both legendary QB's to win his super bowl.. Wilson split with the pair..plus Wilson benefits from a stiffling Defense... Our defense has let us down this past season.. But this year we should be evenly balance.. The defense should be top notch because the offense should put up points.. Making other teams play from behind..

[rmcjacket23]

Has Drew Brees even out-battled Joe while on the field together???? NO!

Statistically? Yes, pretty much both times.

 

From a win/loss perspective, no. For me, wins and losses are a product of a TEAM, not an individual.

[rmcjacket23]

Russel is a better than average QB... He is a perfect balance of a pocket passer and scrabbling... He buys time to pass rather than run..but isn't afraid to pick up yards on the ground... He has been consistent without a great supporting cast of WR's... 3 playoff appearances with back to back Super Bowl appearances... Lets be honest we would be more than happy with that if he was the future of the Franchise... Flacco has never been consistent but what he has over Wilson is his big arm... And ability to take his play to another level... He beat both legendary QB's to win his super bowl.. Wilson split with the pair..plus Wilson benefits from a stiffling Defense... Our defense has let us down this past season.. But this year we should be evenly balance.. The defense should be top notch because the offense should put up points.. Making other teams play from behind..

The caveats with Wilson are...

 

1. We've never really seen him play a season or even an extended part of a season without a high-end defense and/or a high-end running game.

 

2. Players that are so dependent on their legs to make plays, whether its scrambling or actually running (which Wilson does plenty of) will lose that ability over time, via age and via the overall physical toll of the league. The latter half of Wilson's career will almost certainly require him to be a pocket passer, and there are questions of whether he can do that consistently.

 

Overall, though, I agree. He's a high quality QB who performs in big spots.

[Ravensfan23]

Despite my dislike for the Steelers, i recognize Ben as a really good QB. But how can anyone say he consistently puts his team in position for a Championship when he's not even consistently on the field for his team. He's only played a full 16 games 4 times in his career. Also wouldn't you need to consistently make the playoffs and actually win a game to be considered a guy who consistently competes for a ring? The Steelers last playoff win was on 2010 and the two times they did make the playoffs over that time frame resulted in early exits by the hands of Tebow and a one-sided lost to the Ravens last year. Also for as much as people talk about the 4,000 yard mark with Flacco, Ben has only surpassed 3,500 yards 5 times in his 10 year career. There is nothing consistent about Ben. Now I'm not saying the rankings are wrong about Joe because he does need to be more consistent, but if you are gonna knock Flacco for things like consistency, having a strong defense and running game you can't take guys like Ben, Rivers and Wilson above Flacco when they have the same issues but don't perform nearly as good as Joe when it counts. Also if you are gonna speak about the fact that Joe benefits from a strong run game and defense, which is great over exaggerated btw, then you have to note the fact that he's hardly had and above average oline, WR corp or play caller imo.

[Bob21043]

Seems like the analysts are all hung up on the "sexy" stats (TDs, yardage, ints, etc). They fail to take into account Joe's constant adjustments to new coordinators/systems/receivers and his ability to quietly lead the offense. All he does is calmly win games consistently (which, I guess is boring) - well, so be it. It's gotten us to the playoffs in 6 out of 7 years and a superbowl ring (thus far). I'll take that!

[balfan23]

I am 99% convinced that, without that 3rd and 13 catch by Pitta, the Ravens are not Super Bowl Champions in 2012.

 

Before that play, I was thinking ... if we punt from the 3, this game is likely over. One first down by the Broncos from there and Prater ends it. Instead, even though we didn't score on that drive, we gave ourselves some field to work with and put the Broncos on their side of the field. Manning throws the pick, Yanda bulldozes Ray Rice 5 yards forward on a run and Tucker ends it.

 

Yes, I know it wasn't the Super Bowl, but from an excitement standpoint, that was absolutely the best game in Ravens history.

[RavensInNC]

 

"Last season, Flacco had the most passing yards lost (472) due to dropped passes by his receivers than any other NFL quarterback, according to Pro Football Focus." 

 

Thank You! Imagine if half of those were caught instead of dropped/intercepted, Flacco's numbers would be through the roof as we would probably be holding the Lombardi trophy and would not be considered Tier 2

 

Bye Felicia!

Edited July 22, 2015 by RavensInNC

[MDpgRaven]

I can never understand why people put rivers ahead of flacco. He was a crybaby and ncstate and has never won anything in the pros plus he is in decline anyway. Enough of rivers already

[balfan23]

Statistically? Yes, pretty much both times.

 

From a win/loss perspective, no. For me, wins and losses are a product of a TEAM, not an individual.

Well, you can argue that statistics are also a product of team. No RB can run without blockers in front of him. No QB can complete passes without a line protecting him and a receiver catching the ball. No receiver can catch a pass without a QB throwing it to him. 

 

So, both statistics and winning can be used to support a players value and both can be discredited if you want to argue about the player's circumstances. 

[757RavensFan]

Has Drew Brees even out-battled Joe while on the field together???? NO!

 

I beg to differ. Even though the Ravens won the game last Nov, Flacco's numbers are not even close to Brees'.

Granted Flacco got the win, but to answer your question Brees definitely out-battled Joe in the loss.

Flacco: 18/24, 243 yds, 1 TD

Brees:  35/45,  420 yds, 3 TDs, 1 Int.