[News] Late For Work 7/10: Best Five-Year Outlook: Ben Roethlisberger Or Joe Flacco?

[Tru11]

Ben right now but in 2 years flacco will be the better player.

 

Ben is already at his top while flacco keeps getting better and if maxx and perriman work out  flacco is going to be the top QB in the division.

 

Koch is the man.

[rmcjacket23]

BTW Ngata was never a true Raven at heart it turns out. He was all about the money, didn't compromise in wanting to stay here and decided to go where the money was better (don't blame him for that), but shut up and pay homage to your brothers on the Ravens man! Don't slight the legacies of GOATs such as Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and Terrell Suggs man! Be happy with your new team, but don't ever say that is the best defense you've been on. You were a part of the Ravens 2006 defense, don't you ever forget that!

Not sure what the basis for determining he was "all about the money was". He hasn't signed a long-term contract with Detroit yet, and he's playing this season at the exact same $8.5M figure that the Ravens would have paid him. You could actually argue that, in 2015, he's taking LESS to play in Detroit than to stay in Baltimore, because a long-term deal with the Ravens would have almost certainly landed him more than $8.5M this season.

 

We have absolutely no idea what long-term numbers were swapped, or how much he was even asking for. Its possible that the Ravens were the "unrealistic" one's when it comes to the contract negotiations... certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[rmcjacket23]

With that OL in Pittsburgh.... I will be surprised if Ben finishes the season this year. I know that they have a ton of weapons and they do.... and the have changed the offense under Todd Haley to try to protect Ben by getting the ball out of his hands quickly but that OL is subpar at best.... and in our division not being protected could be disastorous -especially this year. Our front 7 may be the best in the league. The Browns actually have a very talented young front 7 who play with an attitude. The Bengals.... have an all star cast In their front 7. IDK... just saying... the sqeelers have made big investments in the weapons but nothing in the way of protecting ben.... I see ben lighting it up in some games and getting lit up in a lot more! Long season for meatheadburger!

Just for reference... Steelers are returning their entire Oline I believe, and they had a top 10 unit last season.

[rmcjacket23]

The reason this is an Under the Radar signing is because it frees up immediate cap space, which in turn could be money spent to extend Yanda, and the cap space that is immediately freed up could be used to extend KO and Tucker. Because with 13 mil coming off the books for Rice, Ngata, and Jacoby dead money, then we can extend Flacco and make a splash or 2 in free agency since our edge rushers are getting up in age, or since it will probably be highly likely we release Webb next season, we could make a play for a big name corner on the FA market, or if Dez Bryant, or Demariyus Thomas pays this season under the franchise tag, then the will be available...just a pipe dream, i know!! But I said all of that to say this, if we lock up Yanda, KO, and Tucker, then our only big UFA next season will be Upshaw, for once our team wont be plucked by free agency.

Highly unlikely given what we know...

 

$13M is coming off the books, but you really aren't gaining anything from it. We still have $132M in contracts on the books for 2016 as or right now, meaning, at best, we've got $30M in cap space right now. That's before any other extensions are signed... KO, Yanda, Tucker, Hill, etc. That also excludes signing draft picks and any other moderate FAs. Signing Yanda, KO and Tucker, and draft picks would probably put us under $10M alone. By most of what I've read, having somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-15M in cap space to spend on FAs once its all said and done next season, which really isn't much at all when you consider there will be plenty of teams with north of $30M to spend. We will likely be in the bottom third of the league in cap space once again, which isn't a problem, but that's just the way the league works when you're actively trying to win every year.

 

Additionally, the major thing people seem to ignore is that its not just about signing FAs or extending players because you have the cap space in one season. If we're going to extend Yanda and/or KO, the FO has to make sure they can afford that player in 2016... and 2017, and 2018, and 2019, etc. Anybody can afford to sign anybody for one season... you can just move money around to do that. Its extending players for 3-4 years that is costly.

 

Ultimately, the FO will ask itself "do I want to invest $15-20M per season in cap space for a couple of guards". Even in an increasing salary cap, that's still a significant number for interior lineman, particularly on a team that is notoriously great at developing interior lineman.

 

We had the cap space to sign Torrey... we didn't. We had the cap space to keep Ngata... we didn't. Just because we have the cap space to retain a player doesn't even remotely indicate that we certainly will.

[#20=DA MAN!!]

Highly unlikely given what we know...

 

$13M is coming off the books, but you really aren't gaining anything from it. We still have $132M in contracts on the books for 2016 as or right now, meaning, at best, we've got $30M in cap space right now. That's before any other extensions are signed... KO, Yanda, Tucker, Hill, etc. That also excludes signing draft picks and any other moderate FAs. Signing Yanda, KO and Tucker, and draft picks would probably put us under $10M alone. By most of what I've read, having somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-15M in cap space to spend on FAs once its all said and done next season, which really isn't much at all when you consider there will be plenty of teams with north of $30M to spend. We will likely be in the bottom third of the league in cap space once again, which isn't a problem, but that's just the way the league works when you're actively trying to win every year.

 

Additionally, the major thing fans seem to ignore is that its not just about signing FAs or extending players because you have the cap space in one season. If we're going to extend Yanda and/or KO, the FO has to make sure they can afford that player in 2016... and 2017, and 2018, and 2019, etc. Anybody can afford to sign anybody for one season... you can just move money around to do that. Its extending players for 3-4 years that is costly.

 

Ultimately, the FO will ask itself "do I want to invest $15-20M per season in cap space for a couple of guards". Even in an increasing salary cap, that's still a significant number for interior lineman, particularly on a team that is notoriously great at developing interior lineman.

 

We had the cap space to sign Torrey... we didn't. We had the cap space to keep Ngata... we didn't. Just because we have the cap space to retain a player doesn't even remotely indicate that we certainly will.

 

That is true about the future years, and I believe our FO is the best when it comes to right player, right price and knowing when to let a player go. I was sad to see Ed play for another team, but Oz knew it was time to retire him, but he insisted on playing but it couldnt have been for the ravens, and same with torrey, he was a class act and beloved in the community but his production up until this point can be replaced. So im not saying break the bank for FAs or resigning our own. But i do feel that resigning both KO and Yanda is a luxury that we can afford. If we are good at developing interior lineman why cant we reap the benefits of those developments. Its almost like we are the breeding factory for coaches, linebackers, d-linemen, and o-linemen. You win up front, thats all im saying. That was the only part of my original statement that i actually was serious about. Yes going into 2016 as of now we have about 30mil, but factor in extensions and releases, because my prediction is that canty, webb (unless he just has a monster season), SSS, "Buck" Smith will all be released/retired. And each of those players besides "Buck" has another year on their contracts, so thats freeing up cap space, and with the draft pool, there is a set cap amount that is allotted to the draft picks which is i believe around 3-5 mil in cap space. ( not bad for a 4-5 year commitment). yes i am thinking like a fan but also as a realist. We are going to have to start keeping our own that we develop if we are going to ever find a suggs/dumervil replacement, a Webb replacement, a "Buck" replacement, without going into full rebuild mode. We cant waste Flacco's prime the way we wasted Ray and Ed's with Boller. 

[Rasenshuriken84]

well this article isn't far off in my opinion, statistically the squeelers qb is better but flacco is better when it comes to wins/losses. the only QB in our division that i would take besides flacco if i was forced to make a trade would be for roethlisberger.

[Joey Flac]

I don't see how you can argue Ben when his ankle can knock him out a quarter of a season if it is twisted... then he will play thru the pain and make it worse.

It is Joe because of his more recent success and clean slate of health.

I remember Ben played a night game when he was hobbling around and the defense would just touch him and he would fall down... think that will get BETTER with time??

He's said in a interview he wakes his wife up at night cause his feet crack n pop when he walks to the bathroom

[rmcjacket23]

That is true about the future years, and I believe our FO is the best when it comes to right player, right price and knowing when to let a player go. I was sad to see Ed play for another team, but Oz knew it was time to retire him, but he insisted on playing but it couldnt have been for the ravens, and same with torrey, he was a class act and beloved in the community but his production up until this point can be replaced. So im not saying break the bank for FAs or resigning our own. But i do feel that resigning both KO and Yanda is a luxury that we can afford. If we are good at developing interior lineman why cant we reap the benefits of those developments. Its almost like we are the breeding factory for coaches, linebackers, d-linemen, and o-linemen. You win up front, thats all im saying. That was the only part of my original statement that i actually was serious about. Yes going into 2016 as of now we have about 30mil, but factor in extensions and releases, because my prediction is that canty, webb (unless he just has a monster season), SSS, "Buck" Smith will all be released/retired. And each of those players besides "Buck" has another year on their contracts, so thats freeing up cap space, and with the draft pool, there is a set cap amount that is allotted to the draft picks which is i believe around 3-5 mil in cap space. ( not bad for a 4-5 year commitment). yes i am thinking like a fan but also as a realist. We are going to have to start keeping our own that we develop if we are going to ever find a suggs/dumervil replacement, a Webb replacement, a "Buck" replacement, without going into full rebuild mode. We cant waste Flacco's prime the way we wasted Ray and Ed's with Boller. 

 

If we have a proven track record of developing interior lineman, then it doesn't make much sense to pay top dollar for two of them at the same time. You pay top dollar for elite players who you can't easily replace via the draft or FA for significantly cheaper. Everybody said the same thing when we let Grubbs go... "how can we let a stud walk"? Well, we did, and a year or two later, everybody already forgot his name. You pay top tier money for players who you can't easily replace or for players that you think you will struggle to find replacements for. We do reap the benefits of these players... we get them on a cheap salary for at least four years, which is an eternity in the NFL. I simply don't view KO as an irreplaceable talent and thus he doesn't get top tier money from me.

 

I don't see Webb getting released unless he's terrible or hurt this season, because the $3.5M in cap savings isn't really that significant when you consider how borderline impossible it is to find corners of his caliber in this league. Extremely low supply, extremely high demand.

[cbrook1862]

In Evans defense the ball was knocked out of his hands.

[sami]

Sam Koch might sign for another 4 yrs after this contract expires. Punters don't take that much abuse and it looks as though he keeps himself in tip top shape.

[RavensDieHard21]

I respect Big Ben's abilities and all because he is an excellent QB who is rather fearless but January Joe is playing out of his mind in the playoffs since 2010 and now he finally has an Oline that is the same from the previous season along with a lot of weapons that have high ceilings. If Perriman develops quick and Maxx can ease into the difficult transition with a possible return of Pitta, this offense might be absolutely lethal. Plus let's remember Joe gets hammered just as bad as Ben sometimes for waiting for plays to develop and he gets back up each time like a champ. I predict at least 5 more playoff wins and a SB title and if we can have another good draft or two we might just win 2 or more.

[Halshayeji]

Highly unlikely given what we know...

$13M is coming off the books, but you really aren't gaining anything from it. We still have $132M in contracts on the books for 2016 as or right now, meaning, at best, we've got $30M in cap space right now. That's before any other extensions are signed... KO, Yanda, Tucker, Hill, etc. That also excludes signing draft picks and any other moderate FAs. Signing Yanda, KO and Tucker, and draft picks would probably put us under $10M alone. By most of what I've read, having somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-15M in cap space to spend on FAs once its all said and done next season, which really isn't much at all when you consider there will be plenty of teams with north of $30M to spend. We will likely be in the bottom third of the league in cap space once again, which isn't a problem, but that's just the way the league works when you're actively trying to win every year.

Additionally, the major thing fans seem to ignore is that its not just about signing FAs or extending players because you have the cap space in one season. If we're going to extend Yanda and/or KO, the FO has to make sure they can afford that player in 2016... and 2017, and 2018, and 2019, etc. Anybody can afford to sign anybody for one season... you can just move money around to do that. Its extending players for 3-4 years that is costly.

Ultimately, the FO will ask itself "do I want to invest $15-20M per season in cap space for a couple of guards". Even in an increasing salary cap, that's still a significant number for interior lineman, particularly on a team that is notoriously great at developing interior lineman.

We had the cap space to sign Torrey... we didn't. We had the cap space to keep Ngata... we didn't. Just because we have the cap space to retain a player doesn't even remotely indicate that we certainly will.

Actually more than 20 mil coming off the books. I also doubt that KO Yanda and Tucker would count more than 20 mil against the cap in the first year of their contracts. The Ravens could also free up some cap space here and there if needed. I really don't remember an offseason when the Ravens had the option to keep all starters and sign 2-3 instant starters like 5mil type guys. And an ozzis draft. I'm already excited for next offseason regardless of what happens this season

[Bandit666]

Koch did the smart thing. The most he would have made on the open market would be $500k a year if that much and possibly play for a non playoff team. This way he stays home with players, coaches and FANS that love him and could get another Ring or two. Way to go Sam.

[20306cab]

Cleveland sucks!

[Hardhitters]

It's safe to say Ben is on his down slide from his peak like Wednesday evening and Flacco is just going to bed on a Tuesday night. The next five years Flacco will dominate while Ben will rely on "splash plays".

 

Hump day...

Edited July 10, 2015 by Hardhitters

[hen826957]

Can you guys imagine how much space we will have if we extended these guys early. We will save a lot of space and my estimate the more we extend like the likes of K.O., Yanda, and Tucker and probably extend Joe in 2016 we probably have around 30 to 40 million in cap space. If we get that much space that's scary. Ozzie will have a field day at free agency and probably get the best passrusher available next year maybe Justin Houston or Ryan Kerrigan due to Suggs and Dumervil getting older. 2016 offseason looks bright.

[rmcjacket23]

Can you guys imagine how much space we will have if we extended these guys early. We will save a lot of space and my estimate the more we extend like the likes of K.O., Yanda, and Tucker and probably extend Joe in 2016 we probably have around 30 to 40 million in cap space. If we get that much space that's scary. Ozzie will have a field day at free agency and probably get the best passrusher available next year maybe Justin Houston or Ryan Kerrigan due to Suggs and Dumervil getting older. 2016 offseason looks bright.

We would lose space in 2016 regardless of when they're signed, because none of them are under contract in 2016. Impossible to free up cap space when signing a player who wasn't counting against the cap to begin with.

[JetLife94]

I only respect other teams because they don't cheat like the patriots.

[L.A.Ravens]

I've seen every episode of lost and dont know who you"re talking about?

@edreed20. The guy from the show lost that's a drug addict. That's ben rothlisberger, same face lol

[January J]

I def agree Jernigan will get double digit sacks this year.

Edited July 11, 2015 by January J

[randy davis]

In Evans defense the ball was knocked out of his hands.

yeah.. that one has always kinda bothered me because he caught it.. and settled to what i kinda consider long enough that it could have been ruled a td anyway.

[catgirl54]

It is interesting with Flacco and Big Ben. ALmost all the "analysts" think Roethlisberger is the better QB. And he is tough. But he seems not to be able to bring it all together in the end. Flacco definitely has the better record. The geeks who focus on statistics love Big Ben. But I would take Flacco over him. Glad to have him, can't understand why he doesn't get more respect not only from the analysts but from his own peers.

[Purple&Black]

Big Ben is what everyone wanted Manzel to be. a good number of Ben's throws come from him scrambling around until someone gets open or he throws a quick hitter to Antonio Brown and watches him work. As far as numbers go, I'll give it to Ben. However, Flacco will have the most success becasuse he has the better supporting cast. The Ravens as a whole are trending up, while the Steelers are going to rebuilding sooner than later.

[Ugly Ball]

yeah.. that one has always kinda bothered me because he caught it.. and settled to what i kinda consider long enough that it could have been ruled a td anyway.

If it was on the Patriots side of the ball it most definitely would have been ruled a touchdown !

[January J]

yeah.. that one has always kinda bothered me because he caught it.. and settled to what i kinda consider long enough that it could have been ruled a td anyway.

another .5 of a second and then yeah. But no it wasn't a catch as much as it pains me to say it.

[1/28/01]

Looking at Ben vs Joe 5 years down the road, I see Joe having more success. Joe's already passed Ben. Ben was better than Joe, but not anymore.

Joe hasn't passed Ben, but maybe one day.

[RavenManiac#7]

Best of the Best Rd 2= LT Jonathan Ogden One Very good player in Ngata. One of the Best Ever in Ogden. So, so far I have Ray Lewis and Jonathan Ogden. By the way, NOBODY beats Ray Lewis, NOBODY!

[RavenManiac#7]

I read all these posts about this article and I'm surprised at how many posters wrote that the Lee Evans play could have been called a TD. They suggest that he might have held the ball long enough for the play to be over and they write that he didn't drop it but, rather, had it knocked from his hands. Well, to me, I think any NFL caliber starting receiver, having caught the ball and tucked it in against his stomach/body should never have allowed the ball to be knocked loose anyway. I believe he had ample time to have secured the ball and held onto it. I don't think there was any excuse for his failure on the play. It was a Perfectly thrown pass by Joe and it should, no doubt, have resulted in a TD. Yep, to me, that was all on Lee Evans.

[Popeye the sailor man]

I read all these posts about this article and I'm surprised at how many posters wrote that the Lee Evans play could have been called a TD. They suggest that he might have held the ball long enough for the play to be over and they write that he didn't drop it but, rather, had it knocked from his hands. Well, to me, I think any NFL caliber starting receiver, having caught the ball and tucked it in against his stomach/body should never have allowed the ball to be knocked loose anyway. I believe he had ample time to have secured the ball and held onto it. I don't think there was any excuse for his failure on the play. It was a Perfectly thrown pass by Joe and it should, no doubt, have resulted in a TD. Yep, to me, that was all on Lee Evans.

If It was the Patriots RavenManiac#7, It would have been ruled a TD without a doubt

[stampedehero]

Yeah.. Its easy to use the past three seasons for QB comparison.  Start of career is the right point to embark.

Ben Is great.          Don't bash me but I have respect for a guy that gets his neck cracked and nose broken from our D. 

Joe is great because he got buried into field grass by their D all the time before we emerged with a great O line.

  I respect Ben and Joe for playing in the tough, brutal vicious AFC North.  Why compare them when the anaylists should grant them honors to survive in this division