Stronger Arm - Stafford or Flacco?

[beanfigger]

Stafford has a rocket, for sure. The problem is, he doesn't really have too much aside from the fastball. This leads to more picks because he tries to throw through defenders instead of over and around them. When it works, it looks incredible, but it often doesn't work.

[Inqui]

Stafford has a rocket, for sure. The problem is, he doesn't really have too much aside from the fastball. This leads to more picks because he tries to throw through defenders instead of over and around them. When it works, it looks incredible, but it often doesn't work.

That and the fact that he seems to have a different throwing motion for every throw.

[FlackAttack]

Mostly injured is quite a stretch. Stafford hasn't missed a game since 2010. He's been as durable (if not more durable) than Joe the last four seasons.

Stafford's certainly had more than enough time on the field to prove how big his arm is, hence why he's in this discussion.

uuuhhhh how is he more durable than flacco, if flacco hasnt missed a game since 2008, and has played in more games each season (playoffs). your post doesnt hold up.

[Bltravens]

That and the fact that he seems to have a different throwing motion for every throw.

He is definitely the David Cone of football.

[K-Dog]

What the outside media thinks...

[ /ignore thread]

[rmcjacket23]

uuuhhhh how is he more durable than flacco, if flacco hasnt missed a game since 2008, and has played in more games each season (playoffs). your post doesnt hold up.

Hence why I specifically used the phrase IN THE LAST FOUR SEASONS.

 

Just mind-boggling to me that we as fans will claim that somebody is injury prone when they haven't been injured for four straight seasons... which is a very solid accomplishment in a league where literally everybody gets hurt eventually, and the great players can miss a game or two annually.

[January J]

i have no problem with this, stafford has an absolute cannon, id say in terms of raw power stafford is 1 while flacco and cutler are 2a and 2b, deep accuracy is another thing though.

joe flacco combines the 2nd strongest arm in the league with some of the best "touch" ability out there, he can perfectly drop it in the basket like hes taking a foul shot whether hes dumping a screen over a DE's head or hes dropping a 60 yard bomb over a safety, his ability to use that "3rd dimension" to place it out of defenders reach is what makes his arm better than all those mid-rank qb's.

what i think separates joe flacco though, is his ability to do all of this, while ducking and dodging pass rushers, his touch is what separates him from the typical rocket armed mid-ranked qb's, and his mobility and arm strength is what separates him from the bradys and peytons. flacco, luck, roethlisberger and rodgers are in a class of their own as the prototype complete qb, combining elite pocket presence, arm strength, accuracy, mobility, touch, size, and clutch factor, 3 of 4 of these guys have won a super bowl in the past decade and its no coincidence.

summary, stafford may be able to launch it 4 or 5 yards further, but he couldnt hold joes jockstrap if his life depended on it

this pretty much sums it up.

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah, I'm not in the "lets bash Stafford camp". I think he's a solid QB who is easily good enough to host a Lombardi or two in the future. Certainly nothing to indicate the guy is a choke artist, mostly because the teams he's played on just haven't been that good.

 

If you're in the camp that team success is 100% attributable to QBs, then Stafford must be terrible. Me personally, I simply try to expand my horizons beyond that, because its a team sport after all. He's spent many years with Calvin Johnson, Suh, and literally an entire roster of average to below average players behind that. I'm not knocking a QB for not winning when the franchise designs a team to basically NOT do that.

 

Despite what many will believe, as great as Joe is, there are, in fact, QBs who are as good or better (OMG how could somebody say that!). And its also possible that some of those QBs just haven't had the luxury of playing with some of the talent, coaching, and FO personnel that this franchise has. I think everybody would agree the Lions are certainly significantly behind us in all three of those phases, and have been for the entirety of both of their careers.

Edited July 7, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Drew P]

Stafford rears back and puts his entire body into throws a la Favre. Flacco just flicks it, no contest.

 

No question on whom is better even Elam has picked Stafford...

[ludy51]

Stafford rears back and puts his entire body into throws a la Favre. Flacco just flicks it, no contest.

No question on whom is better even Elam has picked Stafford...

So has deangelo tyson

[beanfigger]

Yeah, I'm not in the "lets bash Stafford camp". I think he's a solid QB who is easily good enough to host a Lombardi or two in the future. Certainly nothing to indicate the guy is a choke artist, mostly because the teams he's played on just haven't been that good.

If you're in the camp that team success is 100% attributable to QBs, then Stafford must be terrible. Me personally, I simply try to expand my horizons beyond that, because its a team sport after all. He's spent many years with Calvin Johnson, Suh, and literally an entire roster of average to below average players behind that. I'm not knocking a QB for not winning when the franchise designs a team to basically NOT do that.

Despite what many will believe, as great as Joe is, there are, in fact, QBs who are as good or better (OMG how could somebody say that!). And its also possible that some of those QBs just haven't had the luxury of playing with some of the talent, coaching, and FO personnel that this franchise has. I think everybody would agree the Lions are certainly significantly behind us in all three of those phases, and have been for the entirety of both of their careers.

I don't necessarily think the players for Detroit have been that awful relative to the rest of the league, but the coaching and staff decisions made by that team during Stafford's time has been atrocious. In spite of that Stafford has been able to win some games in spectacular fashion. He has also lost his fair share due to poor decisions/plays. If the major knock on Flacco is inconsistency, well.... It doesn't get much more up and down than Stafford and the Lions.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

The NFL has no love for Flacco or the Ravens PERIOD!!! So-be-it Joe is our QB and thats all that matters. The thing is Joe is not afraid to throw towards any defensive backs in the league and in tight windows too on multiple occasions just go back and look at him throwing to SSS while he was  alone on Revis island who won that match-up? and later on in the game the Patriots were rolling coverage towards Revis to give him help. There is more to a strong arm than just going deep and part of it is not shying away from good DB's Joe is not afaraid to throw against the best of them. Joe is our QB and thats all that matters he belongs on the Ravens because like I stated earlier Both Joe and the Ravens get no love from the NFL or its so-called expert panels.

Stafford has got a strong arm but I am happy we got Joe he is a Raven...

[Ravenslifer]

Not sure what this question is really asking - if it's just pure velocity, then I'd say Stafford and Cutler can throw the ball harder than Joe - however, Joe is one of the best deep ball throwers in the league because he's accurate with it.  Throwing it 70 yards downfield does you no good if you miss your target by five yards.  I can't count the number of times I've watched Stafford in particular get bailed out by his receivers making ridiculously acrobatic catches.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Ravenslifer

[Tru11]

Not sure what this question is really asking - if it's just pure velocity, then I'd say Stafford and Cutler can throw the ball harder than Joe - however, Joe is one of the best deep ball throwers in the league because he's accurate with it.  Throwing it 70 yards downfield does you no good if you miss your target by five yards.  I can't count the number of times I've watched Stafford in particular get bailed out by his receivers making ridiculously acrobatic catches.

 

its supposed to be about who can throw harder but i guess people cant accept that flacco isent the clear cut #1 so it got derailed quick with alot of posts that has 0 to do with the initial topic lol.

 

mods let it pass since its a now  a i love flacco thread.

if it turned to a flacco bash thread they would have jumped in sooner then later 

[BirdWatcher]

its supposed to be about who can throw harder but i guess people cant accept that flacco isent the clear cut #1 so it got derailed quick with alot of posts that has 0 to do with the initial topic lol.

 

mods let it pass since its a now  a i love flacco thread.

if it turned to a flacco bash thread they would have jumped in sooner then later 

Not true. It is a Flacco thread AND the off-season so we're trying not to meddle too much. Also, what makes you think ALL of the mods are huge Flacco fans? That's never been true.

[Tru11]

Not true. It is a Flacco thread AND the off-season so we're trying not to meddle too much. Also, what makes you think ALL of the mods are huge Flacco fans? That's never been true.

 

actually its a thread about who has the bigger arm.

 

it became a flacco thread when people decided to bring in arguments and opinions that have 0 to do the topic.

 

i simply dont see how 1 QB winning games proves he has more arm power then another QB.

i also dont see how having better/worse receivers proves that 1 QB can throw with more velocity then another.

heck i dont even see what accuracy has to do with who has the biggest arm.

 

if jamarcus russel was still in the league he would probaly have the biggest arm of all QBs.

that doesn't mean he is better orso like most seem to think.

 

this thread has been derailed since the first page and its funny mods let it slide cause if it where derailed into a flacco bash thread it would have been stopped on the spot regardless of it being the off season , pre season regular season or play offs. 

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

actually its a thread about who has the bigger arm.

 

it became a flacco thread when people decided to bring in arguments and opinions that have 0 to do the topic.

 

i simply dont see how 1 QB winning games proves he has more arm power then another QB.

i also dont see how having better/worse receivers proves that 1 QB can throw with more velocity then another.

heck i dont even see what accuracy has to do with who has the biggest arm.

 

if jamarcus russel was still in the league he would probaly have the biggest arm of all QBs.

that doesn't mean he is better orso like most seem to think.

 

this thread has been derailed since the first page and its funny mods let it slide cause if it where derailed into a flacco bash thread it would have been stopped on the spot regardless of it being the off season , pre season regular season or play offs. 

The article was about building a NFL QB and to build an NFL QB accuracy is a very important part of arm strength thats why people brought it into this conversation. If a guy can throw it 80 yards but cant get it within a few feet of his WR / TE who cares? However if a guy can throw it 80 yards and make it catchable then that QB has a stronger NFL arm. The simple FACT is accuracy is a very important part of all throws short, mid-range and long.

[JoeyFlex5]

its supposed to be about who can throw harder but i guess people cant accept that flacco isent the clear cut #1 so it got derailed quick with alot of posts that has 0 to do with the initial topic lol.

 

mods let it pass since its a now  a i love flacco thread.

if it turned to a flacco bash thread they would have jumped in sooner then later 

velocity isnt the only aspect of arm strength, distance is factored in as well. also, being able to throw it 80 yards with no accuracy means you are sacrificing form and control for the sake of distance, basically if you have to take away from one part of your game to add to your strength, then maybe the arm isnt quite as strong as advertised. if joe flacco doesnt have to sacrifice his accuracy or his form to add more power to his throws, that means his arm has more natural power. joe flacco can throw it 70+ yards on the money without compromising his throwing motion and disregarding accuracy, thats NATURAL power, stafford could probably get it 80 yards down the field, but it would take 2-3 steps and a long windup to do so, that is disregarding form and throwing motion, which in practice will lead to disregarding accuracy for the sake of a longer throw. 

 

the difference in these principles are apparent in games when flacco shows great control in ball placement in passes over 20 yards, meanwhile stafford too often sacrifices placement for power and depends on spectacular catches for completions, subtract half of megatrons ridiculous stats from staffords production to make it appear as if stafford had a standard wr group, suddenly the numbers arent so great if he doesnt have a 6'6" HOF WR to bail him out for years. 

 

ball placement and power control is in fact, an aspect of arm strength, which is why the boards are referencing flacco's overall arm talent compared to stafford.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

velocity isnt the only aspect of arm strength, distance is factored in as well. also, being able to throw it 80 yards with no accuracy means you are sacrificing form and control for the sake of distance, basically if you have to take away from one part of your game to add to your strength, then maybe the arm isnt quite as strong as advertised. if joe flacco doesnt have to sacrifice his accuracy or his form to add more power to his throws, that means his arm has more natural power. joe flacco can throw it 70+ yards on the money without compromising his throwing motion and disregarding accuracy, thats NATURAL power, stafford could probably get it 80 yards down the field, but it would take 2-3 steps and a long windup to do so, that is disregarding form and throwing motion, which in practice will lead to disregarding accuracy for the sake of a longer throw. 

 

the difference in these principles are apparent in games when flacco shows great control in ball placement in passes over 20 yards, meanwhile stafford too often sacrifices placement for power and depends on spectacular catches for completions, subtract half of megatrons ridiculous stats from staffords production to make it appear as if stafford had a standard wr group, suddenly the numbers arent so great if he doesnt have a 6'6" HOF WR to bail him out for years. 

 

ball placement and power control is in fact, an aspect of arm strength, which is why the boards are referencing flacco's overall arm talent compared to stafford.

Great post agreed JoeyFlex5!!!

[Tru11]

The article was about building a NFL QB and to build an NFL QB accuracy is a very important part of arm strength thats why people brought it into this conversation. If a guy can throw it 80 yards but cant get it within a few feet of his WR / TE who cares? However if a guy can throw it 80 yards and make it catchable then that QB has a stronger NFL arm. The simple FACT is accuracy is a very important part of all throws short, mid-range and long.

 

im pretty sure the article did not pick stafford for his accuracy but his arm strength which OP brought in question and him suggestion flacco should have been the choice.

 

did you even read the OP first post or the article he posted?

 

velocity isnt the only aspect of arm strength, distance is factored in as well. also, being able to throw it 80 yards with no accuracy means you are sacrificing form and control for the sake of distance, basically if you have to take away from one part of your game to add to your strength, then maybe the arm isnt quite as strong as advertised. if joe flacco doesnt have to sacrifice his accuracy or his form to add more power to his throws, that means his arm has more natural power. joe flacco can throw it 70+ yards on the money without compromising his throwing motion and disregarding accuracy, thats NATURAL power, stafford could probably get it 80 yards down the field, but it would take 2-3 steps and a long windup to do so, that is disregarding form and throwing motion, which in practice will lead to disregarding accuracy for the sake of a longer throw. 

 

the difference in these principles are apparent in games when flacco shows great control in ball placement in passes over 20 yards, meanwhile stafford too often sacrifices placement for power and depends on spectacular catches for completions, subtract half of megatrons ridiculous stats from staffords production to make it appear as if stafford had a standard wr group, suddenly the numbers arent so great if he doesnt have a 6'6" HOF WR to bail him out for years. 

 

ball placement and power control is in fact, an aspect of arm strength, which is why the boards are referencing flacco's overall arm talent compared to stafford.

 

ball placement and power control are an aspect of accuracy not arm strength.

 

those 2 elements you need if you want to throw a ball accurate not as far as you can.

 

the article talks about pure arm strength and the biggest reason people believe stafford has the biggest arm is because he can throw the ball far while doing it off his back foot and not what you described.

its pretty crazy how much velocity and distance he can get on a ball throwing off his backfoot or across his body.

 

also i think you forgot he did pretty well with golden tate who isent 6`6 nor is on his way to the HOF.

the megatron argument is  played out since he has proven he can do it with someone else.

 

also the boards seems to be bringing up alot of things that have 0 to do with the article and OP initial discussion lol.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Tru11

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

im pretty sure the article did not pick stafford for his accuracy but his arm strength which OP brought in question and him suggestion flacco should have been the choice.

 

did you even read the OP first post or the article he posted?

 

 

ball placement and power control are an aspect of accuracy not arm strength.

 

those 2 elements you need if you want to throw a ball accurate not as far as you can.

 

the article talks about pure arm strength and the biggest reason people believe stafford has the biggest arm is because he can throw the ball far while doing it off his back foot and not what you described.

its pretty crazy how much velocity and distance he can get on a ball throwing off his backfoot or across his body.

 

also i think you forgot he did pretty well with golden tate who isent 6`6 nor is on his way to the HOF.

the megatron argument is  played out since he has proven he can do it with someone else.

 

also the boards seems to be bringing up alot of things that have 0 to do with the article and OP initial discussion lol.

Quote from the article. "If he could combine that arm with some touch, he'd be tough to beat. Classic example: John Elway."

Once again another so-called biased expert from the NFL. Joe has the touch and strength. The ball leaps out of Joe's  arm when he slings it around the field and it has accuracy too boot. Even the writer noted Staffords accuracy and it's short commings in the quote above. He was not writting about accuracy in the Stafford section of his article but arm strength and some how accuracy comes up I wonder why?. Just M.H.O. Joe is better but I am a hommer and I love Flacco being our QB. I cant take away from Staffords arm strength but being biased myself I would pick Flacco. Yes I am a Flacco supporter because I can remember the Boller days when if the  offense got a field goal the offense had a good drive and did a good job.

Edited July 8, 2015 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[CalvinSmoke]

Ahh, I've been trying to avoid posting here... Flacco throws differently than cutler kap and Stafford... When it comes to velocity they all have Joe beat. But Joe throws it farther than all of them technically because of his trajectory (his height and arm length may come into play there) but he throws the ball onto his target. They throw the ball into the target, like a spear... Hence they have to throw it harder, and take advantage windows in the defense especially in zone coverage (why the 49ers almost beat us in the SB) while Flacco trajectory is better for defenders who are a step behind but bad when there is a defender over the top (his last throw of the season against the pats)

(excuse me for my mobile post)

[TXRavensFan]

 

 

'nuff said

[Tru11]

Quote from the article. "If he could combine that arm with some touch, he'd be tough to beat. Classic example: John Elway."

Once again another so-called biased expert from the NFL. Joe has the touch and strength. The ball leaps out of Joe's  arm when he slings it around the field and it has accuracy too boot. Even the writer noted Staffords accuracy and it's short commings in the quote above. He was not writting about accuracy in the Stafford section of his article but arm strength and some how accuracy comes up I wonder why?. Just M.H.O. Joe is better but I am a hommer and I love Flacco being our QB. I cant take away from Staffords arm strength but being biased myself I would pick Flacco. Yes I am a Flacco supporter because I can remember the Boller days when if the  offense got a field goal the offense had a good drive and did a good job.

 

did you read the article?

 

when it comes to touch the author picked brees.

 

are you now saying he should have picked flacco over brees when it comes to touch?

 

touch and arm strength are separate categories.

if combined then yeah flacco would had both beat and you would be right but its not combined lol.

 

the line you quoted is just to emphasis what stafford big arm lacks.

nothing more and nothing less.

 

seriously nobody is arguing that stafford is a better QB then flacco orso .

not even the author is suggesting it.

 

EDIT: also Gil Brandt is a cowboys homer who doesn't gain a thing picking a detroit over a baltimore QB lol.

He would have been real bias if he snuck Romo in there.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Tru11

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

did you read the article?

 

when it comes to touch the author picked brees.

 

are you now saying he should have picked flacco over brees when it comes to touch?

 

touch and arm strength are separate categories.

if combined then yeah flacco would had both beat and you would be right but its not combined lol.

 

the line you quoted is just to emphasis what stafford big arm lacks.

nothing more and nothing less.

 

seriously nobody is arguing that stafford is a better QB then flacco orso .

not even the author is suggesting it.

 

EDIT: also Gil Brandt is a cowboys homer who doesn't gain a thing picking a detroit over a baltimore QB lol.

He would have been real bias if he snuck Romo in there.

I did in fact read the article. My point was you said accuracy has nothing to do with arm strength but the writter in fact mentioned accuracy in the part of the article that was dealing with arm strength Thats because arm strength with out accuracy is meaningless in the NFL.. Also I never thought the article said Stafford was better than Flacco. I did say I would have chose Flacco over Stafford  but I am a self admitted hommer and yes being a self admitted hommer I would take Flacco over Brees he has the strength and touch to fit the ball in tight spaces. Dont get all freaked out Tru11 I have a lot of confidence in Flacco and rightfully so. On another point honestly I want to ask you Do you dis-like Flacco? I seem to think I have read some of your previous posts on here not liking when fans talk up Flacco.

Edited July 9, 2015 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[Tru11]

I did in fact read the article. My point was you said accuracy has nothing to do with arm strength but the writter in fact mentioned accuracy in the part of the article that was dealing with arm strength Thats because arm strength with out accuracy is meaningless in the NFL.. Also I never thought the article said Stafford was better than Flacco. I did say I would have chose Flacco over Stafford  but I am a self admitted hommer and yes being a self admitted hommer I would take Flacco over Brees he has the strength and touch to fit the ball in tight spaces. Dont get all freaked out Tru11 I have a lot of confidence in Flacco and rightfully so. On another point honestly I want to ask you Do you dis-like Flacco? I seem to think I have read some of your previous posts on here not liking when fans talk up Flacco.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 i dont dislike flacco at all.

he has come along way from being an avg QB to becoming 1 of the top QBs in the league.

there arent many QBs id take over him, but im far to realistic to act like he is the best QB in the league.

 

I dont mind people talking up/bash flacco or any other player/coach unless it takes extreme forms.

 

i wont agree if someone says flacco is better then rodgers nor will i agree he needs to be benched after a few bad games for schaub.

 

im probaly in the middle if you wanna place me somewhere on the extreme homer vs extreme hater scale lol.

 

also since you are a homer its pretty pointless to argue any further about who has the biggest arm  so i suggest we drop it lol

[Sherly_Tebow]

Flacco>>>Stafford. Also, how do I start a topic? I'm new here. Lol

Edited July 9, 2015 by Sherly_Tebow

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Quote from the article. "If he could combine that arm with some touch, he'd be tough to beat. Classic example: John Elway."

Once again another so-called biased expert from the NFL. Joe has the touch and strength. The ball leaps out of Joe's arm when he slings it around the field and it has accuracy too boot. Even the writer noted Staffords accuracy and it's short commings in the quote above. He was not writting about accuracy in the Stafford section of his article but arm strength and some how accuracy comes up I wonder why?. Just M.H.O. Joe is better but I am a hommer and I love Flacco being our QB. I cant take away from Staffords arm strength but being biased myself I would pick Flacco. Yes I am a Flacco supporter because I can remember the Boller days when if the offense got a field goal the offense had a good drive and did a good job.

Yes the article mentions Staffords in accuracy but then still chooses him for arm strength..... Because the premise of the article is to pick a QB for each individual aspect of skill set and combine them to make a perfect QB.

Meaning, for arm strength you take the guy with the most pure strength regardless of if he can't control it because you're going to then mix that aspect in with Tom Brady's touch/control and Aaron Rogers pure arm talent, Mannings ability to read the game, Russell Wilson's scrambling ability, etc...

I don't know who they actually picked for what skills but making the argument that Stafford is a poor choice for that article bc he lacks accuracy on his deep ball is COMPLETELY disregarding the premise of it in the first place.

The opposite is true as well. Say you pick Tom Brady for accuracy/touch. Then you argue well it shouldn't be him because he's not as accurate beyond 20 yards bc he doesn't have the strength to get it there effortlessly. It's a bad argument bc under the premise of the article you're giving Tom Brady Flacco/Cutler/Stafford like strength... Or giving those guys Tom Brady accuracy.

If Stafford has more pure strength he's the right choice. Idk that to be true, it's probably close between him, Flacco and Cutler - I think any of them is a good choice - but the point remains.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I did in fact read the article. My point was you said accuracy has nothing to do with arm strength but the writter in fact mentioned accuracy in the part of the article that was dealing with arm strength Thats because arm strength with out accuracy is meaningless in the NFL.. Also I never thought the article said Stafford was better than Flacco. I did say I would have chose Flacco over Stafford but I am a self admitted hommer and yes being a self admitted hommer I would take Flacco over Brees he has the strength and touch to fit the ball in tight spaces. Dont get all freaked out Tru11 I have a lot of confidence in Flacco and rightfully so. On another point honestly I want to ask you Do you dis-like Flacco? I seem to think I have read some of your previous posts on here not liking when fans talk up Flacco.

Arm strength without accuracy does have a point under the premise of the article.

Reading it and understanding it are two different things.

If you're going to argue Stafford is the wrong choice the ONLY VALID argument you can make is that Flacco - regardless of accuracy, technique, release, or receivers - has a stronger arm.

I'm not saying that's not true or that it is. The fact is unless we had them both line up and launch the ball down the field and throw with a radar gun and find a way to weigh both measurements in an assessment if what arm strength means then there's not a definitive right or wrong answer.

Stafford isn't a wrong choice. Flacco wouldn't have been wrong either, and if he had there would be plenty of people - like you - on the other side of the coin saying stafford was a better choice.

Who cares? Flaccos a great QB, he's our QB, and being picked in that article wouldn't change either of those things. I'm sure Joe's not sweating it and doesn't feel slighted by it. Neither should you.

[jdynamite]

They need to start doing those old events at the Pro Bowl again, like they do for College All Stars.. QB Challenges Deep Ball, Accuracy hitting moving targets, etc... 

 

I used to like seeing those obstacle courses etc..