2015 Draft a Franchise (NBA): Discussion Thread

[-Truth-]

codizzle will not be happy when he returns.

[BmoreBird22]

My pick is in

[-Truth-]

What a depressingly slow start to the game. Looks like we're going to have two skips in the top 10.

You are on the clock.

[BmoreBird22]

You are on the clock.

If you'll be around for a while, I'll make my second pick tonight, too

[-Truth-]

If you'll be around for a while, I'll make my second pick tonight, too

I might be. Will try to at least.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

My top-10 for this game is off of the board. 

 

1. Lebron

2. AD

3. Steph

4. Harden

5. KD

6. Westbrook

7. Cousins

8. Paul

9. Gasol

10. Aldridge 

Edited July 3, 2015 by BALTIMOREFLACCO

[Inqui]

Was just helping a neighbour out, pick will be in shortly.

[Inqui]

And with that pick made, I'm heading out of town for a bit. I'll stick my head in in half an hour.

[-Truth-]

The picks will be in shortly. By the way, the pick numbers in The Draft thread are out of order starting from 12. We're going sequentially regardless of whether a member is skipped. Just a heads up.

Edited July 3, 2015 by -Truth-

[-Truth-]

Sorry for the wait. Still deliberating.

[gabefergy]

My top-10 for this game is off of the board.

1. Lebron

2. AD

3. Steph

4. Harden

5. KD

6. Westbrook

7. Cousins

8. Paul

9. Gasol

10. Aldridge

Blake is easily a top 10 player

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Blake is easily a top 10 player

 

I think you can make the case for him over Aldridge. That's about it though. 

[gabefergy]

I think you can make the case for him over Aldridge. That's about it though.

Gasol, Cousins. He does more imo. Blake is capable of running the offense. He handles the ball, and he's a great passer. He runs the fast break, he can score face up or back to the basket and he's one of the best finishers in the game.

Edited July 3, 2015 by gabefergy

[-Truth-]

As usual, I had another player I was going with but ended up changing my mind after some deliberation. This could be slightly early for Kawhi Leonard, but the reining DPoY is arguably the best perimeter defender, a solid scorer, and a terrific rebounder. I have an obvious soft spot for Paul George. The fact that he saw any playing time this season was promising, and if he truly is 100% as he claims, he could very well be a top player next season. The NBA has moved into playing the small ball more often, and considering that both Leonard and George have experience at PF, I shouldn't have an issue keeping up with the modern trend. T'was a very tough choice, but at worst, I should have one of the better on-the-ball duos. I can live with that.

Edited July 3, 2015 by -Truth-

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Gasol, Cousins. He does more imo. Blake is capable of running the offense. He handles the ball, and he's a great passer. He runs the fast break, he can score face up or back to the basket and he's one of the best finishers in the game.

 

I'd take Cousins over Blake any day of the week. Blake is the better offensive player, I'll give you that, but it's not by much.

 

Cousins is the more complete player. He's a better defender, better rebounder, and has a more efficient total game. From a  numbers standpoint, he's only slightly behind Blake as a passer, but his supporting cast is far far worse. To be fair, Cousins had more triple doubles and only trailed Blake by six percent in AST% despite the team difference, so his passing ability shouldn't be understated. 

 

While Cousins scored more than Blake, he used more shots to get his points. However, going back to the team standpoint, Blake has legitimate offensive options around him, where Boogie has Rudy Gay, Darren Collison (a backup PG at best) and a bunch off fringe rotation players. Blake has a top-5 spot up shooter, the best pure PG, a top finishing center and a veteran former sixth man of the year. 

 

Cousins' defense and rebounding makes up the small difference in offense in my opinion. He's also a bit younger. I guess there's a case to be made for Blake over Cousins, but I just don't see it. 

 

I think there's a better case for moving him over Gasol due to age and offensive prowess, but I still wouldn't just because the difference offensively isn't as much as you would think from surface level stats and Gasol is far more impactful defensively and on the boards.

Edited July 3, 2015 by BALTIMOREFLACCO

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

As usual, I had another player I was going with but ended up changing my mind after some deliberation. This could be slightly early for Kawhi Leonard, but the reining DPoY is arguably the best perimeter defender, a solid scorer, and a terrific rebounder. I have an obvious soft spot for Paul George. The fact that he saw any playing time this season was promising, and if he truly is 100% as he claims, he could very well be a top player next season. The NBA has moved into playing the small ball more often, and considering that both Leonard and George have experience at PF, I shouldn't have an issue keeping up with the modern trend. T'was a very tough choice, but at worst, I should have one of the better on-the-ball duos. I can live with that.

 

PG and PF are very deep positions, so you have a lot of room to avoid them with these picks. You have two of the top-5 wings in the league. Love the picks. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by BALTIMOREFLACCO

[-Truth-]

PG and PF are very deep positions, so you have a lot of room to avoid them with these picks. You have two of the top-5 wings in the league. Love the picks. 

 

Definitely. That's a big part of why I passed on the initial primary target so I'm with you there. Thank you very much. Definitely appreciate the vote of confidence.

[gabefergy]

I'd take Cousins over Blake any day of the week. Blake is the better offensive player, I'll give you that, but it's not by much.

Cousins is the more complete player. He's a better defender, better rebounder, and has a more efficient total game. From a numbers standpoint, he's only slightly behind Blake as a passer, but his supporting cast is far far worse. To be fair, Cousins had more triple doubles and only trailed Blake by six percent in AST% despite the team difference, so his passing ability shouldn't be understated.

While Cousins scored more than Blake, he used more shots to get his points. However, going back to the team standpoint, Blake has legitimate offensive options around him, where Boogie has Rudy Gay, Darren Collison (a backup PG at best) and a bunch off fringe rotation players. Blake has a top-5 spot up shooter, the best pure PG, a top finishing center and a veteran former sixth man of the year.

Cousins' defense and rebounding makes up the small difference in offense in my opinion. He's also a bit younger. I guess there's a case to be made for Blake over Cousins, but I just don't see it.

I think there's a better case for moving him over Gasol due to age and offensive prowess, but I still wouldn't just because the difference offensively isn't as much as you would think from surface level stats and Gasol is far more impactful defensively and on the boards.

I accidentally deleted my post, but I don't agree at all. Blake is capable of taking his game to another level that Cousins has never shown. Last playoffs is a great example. He basically averaged a triple double for a 4 game stretch. The offense ran through him and it ran well. Cousins is a gifted offensive player, but he can't run an offense. I don't even think he is a better rebounder. Blake just plays next to DeAndre who eats up tons of boards.

Their importance to their teams can be best summed up by looking at win shares. Blake was worth 9 wins while Cousins was worth 6, if you look at win shares per 48 minutes, Blake is at .183 compared to .144 for Cousins. For their careers Blake is at .183 with Cousins at .104.

[MoveThoseChains]

Really like the Kawhi and George picks. I picked Leonard early in the second round in last years draft, and he solidified his spot at the end of the first in this years. George is a player, too. I hope he bounces back like he never got injured, coming from a Wiz fan.

[-Truth-]

Really like the Kawhi and George picks. I picked Leonard early in the second round in last years draft, and he solidified his spot at the end of the first in this years. George is a player, too. I hope he bounces back like he never got injured, coming from a Wiz fan.

 

Thank you. I went back to the thread and saw that so I figured it wouldn't be considered a reach, especially since Leonard was even better this season, which made your selection seems even smarter. I definitely hope so too. This is the third time I've selected him in two years lol

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

I accidentally deleted my post, but I don't agree at all. Blake is capable of taking his game to another level that Cousins has never shown. Last playoffs is a great example. He basically averaged a triple double for a 4 game stretch. The offense ran through him and it ran well. Cousins is a gifted offensive player, but he can't run an offense. I don't even think he is a better rebounder. Blake just plays next to DeAndre who eats up tons of boards.

Their importance to their teams can be best summed up by looking at win shares. Blake was worth 9 wins while Cousins was worth 6, if you look at win shares per 48 minutes, Blake is at .183 compared to .144 for Cousins. For their careers Blake is at .183 with Cousins at .104.

 

You have a point with DeAndre's impact on rebounding, but Sacramento was actually the better rebounding team and had more total rebounding competition for Cousins. 

 

Here's a look at some defensive stats and total efficiency stats. Green is the better player in each stat, red is the worse player.

 

Demarcus Cousins:

 

Blocks Per Game: 1.7

Blocks Per 100 Possessions: 2.6

Block % - 4.0 

Steals: 1.5

Steals Per 100 Possessions: 2.3

Defensive Win Shares - 3.4

Defensive RTG - 101

Opponents FG% - 44

Opponents eFG% - 46

Opponents' FG% At Rim - 50

Defensive Adjusted Plus/Minus - 3.3

Defensive Rebound %: 30.6

Total Rebound %: 21.1

PER: 25.2

Value Above Replacement: 3.4

 

Blake Griffin:

 

Blocks Per Game: .5

Blocks Per 100 Possessions: .8

Block % - 1.2

Steals: .9

Steals Per 100 Possessions: 1.4

Defensive Win Shares - 2.4

Defensive RTG - 106

Opponents FG% - 45

Opponents eFG% - 50

Opponents' FG% At Rim - 58

Defensive Adjusted Plus/Minus - 1.0

Defensive Rebound %: 17.9

Total Rebound %: 12.1

PER: 22.8

Value Above Replacement: 3.6

 

I think pointing to total win shares is pretty misleading when you factor in the difference in their team's records and look at the difference in defensive production and efficiency. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by BALTIMOREFLACCO

[Inqui]

My three targets were Lillard, George and Kawhi. I figured I'd take Lillard and whoever fell out of the other two.

So now I have no idea who to take and may or may not have a printout of Truth's avatar on my dartboard.

[BmoreBird22]

My three targets were Lillard, George and Kawhi. I figured I'd take Lillard and whoever fell out of the other two.

So now I have no idea who to take and may or may not have a printout of Truth's avatar on my dartboard.

Just don't take my guy and we'll be good

[-Truth-]

My three targets were Lillard, George and Kawhi. I figured I'd take Lillard and whoever fell out of the other two.

So now I have no idea who to take and may or may not have a printout of Truth's avatar on my dartboard.

lol I am very sorry. I was originally going with another player, but George was my main target all along. I was hoping it wouldn't be too obvious since I drafted him in the DaF and the All-Time versions. Fire away! It'd be well deserved.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Moderator 3

[-Truth-]

Been a fan of Horford for a while. Got him in the 3rd round last year due to the injury. Does everything well in my eyes.

[Inqui]

lol I am very sorry. I was originally going with another player, but George was my main target all along. I was hoping it wouldn't be too obvious since I drafted him in the DaF and the All-Time versions. Fire away! It'd be well deserved.

Eh, at the end of the day it was my fault for taking a chance on them. I figured since they were both mainly SFs you'd take one but not both.

 

Sigh.

[-Truth-]

Eh, at the end of the day it was my fault for taking a chance on them. I figured since they were both mainly SFs you'd take one but not both.

 

Sigh.

 

Can't blame you there at all. I had a different player altogether slotted next to George but I was very much enticed by the opportunity to see that duo in the small ball line up, especially with how effective Leonard has been at PF.

[Inqui]

Been a fan of Horford for a while. Got him in the 3rd round last year due to the injury. Does everything well in my eyes.

I've got no idea how I'd make it work, but I think it's early enough in the drat and he's talented enough that you just make him fit and sort the rest out later.

 

I had two other guys after all that, so we'll see how far they fall.

[-Truth-]

I've got no idea how I'd make it work, but I think it's early enough in the drat and he's talented enough that you just make him fit and sort the rest out later.

 

I had two other guys after all that, so we'll see how far they fall.

 

I think he can easily play either PF/C so there's some obvious flexibility there. He was Atlanta's center this season but has stated before in the past that he prefers PF.

[BmoreBird22]

I don't know much about basketball, but I do think Klay Thompson was a pretty good SG last year