Dean Pees NFL.com Coordinator Ranking

[The Raven]

Has anyone considered the distinct possibility that Brady and his receivers played a good game against a scrub secondary? I feel like that's the obvious explanation......

[Inqui]

Has anyone considered the distinct possibility that Brady and his receivers played a good game against a scrub secondary? I feel like that's the obvious explanation......

It's been mentioned a few times, but yes I think that explanation makes the most sense.

[Tru11]

Has anyone considered the distinct possibility that Brady and his receivers played a good game against a scrub secondary? I feel like that's the obvious explanation......

 

i dont think many are willing to give credit where its due.

[JoeyFlex5]

Yes, I addressed that. The play-calling could lend itself to those mistakes:

 

 

 

I'm not blaming Pees for Melvin missing a tackle, I'm asking if it is reasonable for our worn-out ultra-reserve defenders to have to stick every tackle like they're Ronnie Lott for the defense to work? That's what our defense scheme seemed to need.

 

Again, that might be the only type of that play you see on 'highlights' because it was more exciting than the ho-hum variety of Brady-to-LaFell on 1st for 7 yards, Brady-to-Edelman on 2nd for 8 yards that were so common. I'll keep looking.

so, with these ultra reserve players, do you depend on them to do... 

 

A: the most fundamental aspect in all of football(tackling) 

 

or 

 

B: covering shifty receivers in a scheme designed to create quick separation with brady and bellichick calling the shots 

 

i would feel safer with option A 10 out of 10 times if i HAD to choose between the 2.

[JetLife94]

In my eyes pees is great. With our Secondary last year and still ranking 23rd? Not that bad.

[berad]

so, with these ultra reserve players, do you depend on them to do... 

 

A: the most fundamental aspect in all of football(tackling) 

 

or 

 

B: covering shifty receivers in a scheme designed to create quick separation with brady and bellichick calling the shots 

 

i would feel safer with option A 10 out of 10 times if i HAD to choose between the 2.

 

A valid point but I could counter: with these shifty receivers, would you rather...

 

A: Have DBs give a big cushion to allow the receivers to make uncontested short catches and turn up field with room to run/juke

 

or

 

B: Have DBs play tight on what you know will be quick passes to at least have a shot at disrupting a pass.

 

And, yes, Brady and his receivers played the game of their life. No one is denying it. Brady's a great player. What we're arguing is not mutually exclusive to that.

[JoeyFlex5]

A valid point but I could counter: with these shifty receivers, would you rather...

 

A: Have DBs give a big cushion to allow the receivers to make uncontested short catches and turn up field with room to run/juke

 

or

 

B: Have DBs play tight on what you know will be quick passes to at least have a shot at disrupting a pass.

 

And, yes, Brady and his receivers played the game of their life. No one is denying it. Brady's a great player. What we're arguing is not mutually exclusive to that.

the way i look at it, our players couldnt tackle or cover, cant blame em, they dont really belong on an NFL  field for the most part, but brady and bellichick are nothing short of evil geniuses, bellichick coached the game of his life, and with a little bending of the rules he was able to get brady and his receivers some momentum. i just personally would rather give up long drives and hope for a dropped ball or an errant throw or some quick pressure reaching the qb, rather than pressing with practice squad corners and giving up big plays left and right

[BmoreBird22]

A valid point but I could counter: with these shifty receivers, would you rather...

 

A: Have DBs give a big cushion to allow the receivers to make uncontested short catches and turn up field with room to run/juke

 

or

 

B: Have DBs play tight on what you know will be quick passes to at least have a shot at disrupting a pass.

 

And, yes, Brady and his receivers played the game of their life. No one is denying it. Brady's a great player. What we're arguing is not mutually exclusive to that.

I'll counter it with

A: Would you rather have the players play off and have the possibility of having two to three players come downhill to make the catch after two to three yards of YAC

Or

B: Play press man and risk missing the jam or if they don't miss the jam, rely on that single player to not get beat and make the tackle that if he misses will lead to a major gain by virtue of the coverage.

I'll go with A

[beasy2487]

the way i look at it, our players couldnt tackle or cover, cant blame em, they dont really belong on an NFL field for the most part, but brady and bellichick are nothing short of evil geniuses, bellichick coached the game of his life, and with a little bending of the rules he was able to get brady and his receivers some momentum. i just personally would rather give up long drives and hope for a dropped ball or an errant throw or some quick pressure reaching the qb, rather than pressing with practice squad corners and giving up big plays left and right

Yea the Pats had to pull out every trick in their bag to beat us at home in the playoffs with no secondary. Hell, they had to change the rulebook to get that win. People seem to forget that we weren't even supposed to be in that game so much as pushing the entire Pats team to its proverbial limit. I'm so proud of what we were able to accomplish last season.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if there's anything you can knock Pees for in the second half of that game, it's not selling out on the interior pass rush. I think that's where Pees got out coached by Belichick and Co. In my opinion, we should've sat B. Will and gone all out with Suggs, Ngata, Jernigan, and Doom, rotating in McPhee at all 4 positions. Interior pressure was our only hope and Belichick accurately guessed that we would still hedge against the run, so by abandoning it he put us at a disadvantage once our secondary wore down.

[BmoreBird22]

I don't think backing off Brady's receivers forced him to be perfect, it gave him more room for errant throws. His best pass was the one you mentioned, to LaFell, which was very hard to defend despite Melvin having decent position.

Melvin could have definitely made a play on that ball if he had turned his head

[Ravensfan23]

This game was the AFC Championship in everything but the title. It was clearly played by the 2 best teams in the AFC and some of the best coaches in the NFL as well. Pees called a heck of a game imo. Of course there were times that he got out smarted but that's to be expected. There were also times where he had it right, but players didn't execute. I literally just watched this game over again and I think it was clear that the Pats just made the plays they were supposed to and just wanted it more then the Ravens players, seemingly. There were a few fumble chances the Ravens couldn't come up with, there were a few 3rd down plays that should have been stopped and probably would have chanced that game with TDs, but they Ravens didn't execute. I think about rushing TD at 14-0. 10 guys did their jobs well but Daryl Smith just didn't do his job as well. He saw Brady pull the ball down to run and instead of aggressively attacking Brady, he hesitated like he wasn't sure whether to stay in cover or attack the ball. If he attack chances are he's able to make a tackle on Brady around the 2 yardline and it focuses the Pats to make a decision on 4th down in a 14 point hole. Things like that changes games. 

 

Also I look at Kubes calling the same play for Daniels that scored him his first TD, but this time with the game tied at 28 and a chance to put even more pressure on the Pats by going up by 7, Daniels drops the pass in the back of the endzone and the Ravens have to settle for 3. Of course we all know about the Melvin missed tackle on 3rd down, that would have given the Pats a 4th and 2 on the 40 with a decision to make. Then of course there is Torrey Smith not fighting for the Flacco Int. Torrey actually made contact with the defender before the ball hit his hands, which means he had just as much opportunity to go up an make a play on the ball as the defender did. You have to at least knock that ball down. But again, the Pats made the plays where the Ravens didn't. As much as it pains me to say, I think the better team won that day. 

[Ravensfan23]

Melvin could have definitely made a play on that ball if he had turned his head

 

Even though he didn't jam at the LOS, he was still in great position and had near prefect technique, not turning his head was a costly mistake. I look at the trajectory of the ball and the position Melvin was in and if he turns his head to locate the ball, I think the story is Brady throwing the Int that costed his team the game and not Flacco. 

[BmoreBird22]

Even though he didn't jam at the LOS, he was still in great position and had near prefect technique, not turning his head was a costly mistake. I look at the trajectory of the ball and the position Melvin was in and if he turns his head to locate the ball, I think the story is Brady throwing the Int that costed his team the game and not Flacco.

He was step for step in the hip pocket and while I don't think it's an INT, it's a guaranteed pass deflection if he just looks back

[berad]

He was step for step in the hip pocket and while I don't think it's an INT, it's a guaranteed pass deflection if he just looks back

Jimmy Smith syndrome lol? That was his biggest issue early in his career, something he corrected and now excels with.

[berad]

the way i look at it, our players couldnt tackle or cover, cant blame em, they dont really belong on an NFL  field for the most part, but brady and bellichick are nothing short of evil geniuses, bellichick coached the game of his life, and with a little bending of the rules he was able to get brady and his receivers some momentum. i just personally would rather give up long drives and hope for a dropped ball or an errant throw or some quick pressure reaching the qb, rather than pressing with practice squad corners and giving up big plays left and right

 

 

I'll counter it with

A: Would you rather have the players play off and have the possibility of having two to three players come downhill to make the catch after two to three yards of YAC

Or

B: Play press man and risk missing the jam or if they don't miss the jam, rely on that single player to not get beat and make the tackle that if he misses will lead to a major gain by virtue of the coverage.

I'll go with A

You both make compelling points, and I hope I have too - or at least made you consider another viewpoint. I know I've learned reading/participating in this topic.

However, the point's been made by others that it's easy for me to say 'if we do this, this WOULD have happened' but hard to put any proof to that, with no way to replicate the scenario/actors. I also think I'm scaring away others from posting by playing devil's advocate and lengthening a debate. Agree to disagree?

[Ravensfan23]

He was step for step in the hip pocket and while I don't think it's an INT, it's a guaranteed pass deflection if he just looks back

 

I think it would have been,  but then again we are talking about an inexperienced player in the biggest moment of his career so who knows. However the ball was thrown on a line to the inside and Lafell actually caught it around his waist. Lafell starts looking back for the ball almost immediately. Once Melvin got into his body pushing him towards the sideline, if he looks back for the ball, he's actually in a much better position of attacking that ball at it's highest point to the inside. But being a young player he seemed to panic at the LOS once Lafell got such a clean release and played catchup mode when he didn't need to. 

[JoeyFlex5]

 

 

You both make compelling points, and I hope I have too - or at least made you consider another viewpoint. I know I've learned reading/participating in this topic.

However, the point's been made by others that it's easy for me to say 'if we do this, this WOULD have happened' but hard to put any proof to that, with no way to replicate the scenario/actors. I also think I'm scaring away others from posting by playing devil's advocate and lengthening a debate. Agree to disagree?

you have opened my eyes to other points of view and i consider myself one to be open minded. 

 

im just going off of what played out, and the only time i like to give a "what if" scenario is if that "IF" would have guaranteed a different outcome, changing the scheme wouldnt have guaranteed any different outcome, more press could have worked, or it could have hurt us more. however, what i will say, is what if those tackles were made on 3rd down? what if the players that were in good position(thanks to the coordinating) could have done the most fundamental of things and made a good tackle, those long drives stall on 4th and short and the pats either go for it, or they punt. thats the only definitive "what if" statement that could be made here, you can ponder on the scheme all you want, but if those tackles werent poorly executed, the ravens very well could be the AFC champs right now

[BmoreBird22]

 

 

You both make compelling points, and I hope I have too - or at least made you consider another viewpoint. I know I've learned reading/participating in this topic.

However, the point's been made by others that it's easy for me to say 'if we do this, this WOULD have happened' but hard to put any proof to that, with no way to replicate the scenario/actors. I also think I'm scaring away others from posting by playing devil's advocate and lengthening a debate. Agree to disagree?

Well, what I'm saying with my points is that there's a lot to juggle and a TON to consider and Pees had to weigh all of that and more since he actually knows the players more intimately than us. People want to simplify it when in reality, Pees knows Brady better than any of us and knew his players strengths and weaknesses better than any of us and he probably had a much better plan than any of us.

[BmoreBird22]

I think it would have been,  but then again we are talking about an inexperienced player in the biggest moment of his career so who knows. However the ball was thrown on a line to the inside and Lafell actually caught it around his waist. Lafell starts looking back for the ball almost immediately. Once Melvin got into his body pushing him towards the sideline, if he looks back for the ball, he's actually in a much better position of attacking that ball at it's highest point to the inside. But being a young player he seemed to panic at the LOS once Lafell got such a clean release and played catchup mode when he didn't need to. 

Yeah, I'd have to review the play to see exactly how it was thrown and played, but I do know that the play should have not have happened.

[BmoreBird22]

Jimmy Smith syndrome lol? That was his biggest issue early in his career, something he corrected and now excels with.

I don't think it's uncommon for players who aren't fully trusting in their skills yet.

[jazz1988]

Yes, I addressed that. The play-calling could lend itself to those mistakes:

 

 

 

I'm not blaming Pees for Melvin missing a tackle, I'm asking if it is reasonable for our worn-out ultra-reserve defenders to have to stick every tackle like they're Ronnie Lott for the defense to work? That's what our defense scheme seemed to need.

 

Again, that might be the only type of that play you see on 'highlights' because it was more exciting than the ho-hum variety of Brady-to-LaFell on 1st for 7 yards, Brady-to-Edelman on 2nd for 8 yards that were so common. I'll keep looking.

 

When you facing The Patriots  passing offense you know their passing game is base off  of short passes and  their receivers getting yards after the catch.The defense also has to be wary of  Gronk whoms one of the best tight ends in the league and is pretty physical. It's been proven before that press coverage can be effective towards The Patriots receivers but  as some stated  one of The Ravens corners(Melvin) was in press coverage and got beat for  a touchdown.

 

It's important for the players on defense to be sound tacklers especially when you facing up against receivers like Edelmen and Amendola because they are really good at getting yards after the catch. Players like Melvin and Elam didn't display good tackling against those receivers and it killed The Raven defense especially on third down.Dean Pees philosophy is bend but don't break  and  that in my opinion means we gonna give up some yards but not the touchdowns.

 

Some people don't like that philosophy and I honestly rather the philosophy be go for the kill at all times..I think Pees is a good defensive coordinator  but hopefully with a better secondary we won't see our corners in off man coverage often like last year.

[edreed2o]

its called hot reads, which is what tom brady lives off of.

you have rashaan melvin and anthony levine defending edelman and lafell, you wanna press cover them because you assume "brady dinks and dunks alot, so obviously just press cover because that fixes our problems!" when in reality, brady calls a simple hot read for his wr to toast an absolute bum of a cb for a touchdown instead of a 8 yard catch and run.

this attitude is why you along with every fan out there, is not and never will be a NFL coordinator. assuming closer coverage will automatically wipe out any chance of a quick pass is what would turn a close game with long drives into a blowout with 1 big play after another.

I know what hot reads are and almost every QB does them but Tom Brady does not have the deep ball he once did. I know this because whenever he throws deep, its either overthrown or picked off. I know alot more than most fans do. The dink and dunk is pretty much guaranteed completions. Im not saying play press but playing 3-4 yards from the receiver will atleast keep it competitive. I know our secondary was a joke but you have to stay physical and challenge the receivers. Pees did this on every single down. 3rd and inches? Play back; 3rd and goal? Still playing back. Our defense was exhausted by the end of the game because Tom Brady was being given easy pickens. And another thing, dont pit words in my mouth that I didnt say. I never said playing closer would solve all our problems. Certain situations, I expected Pees to change our coverage. Edelman and amendola make their money on short routes. They arent deep threats by any means. Edited July 7, 2015 by edreed2o

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Yes, I addressed that. The play-calling could lend itself to those mistakes:

I'm not blaming Pees for Melvin missing a tackle, I'm asking if it is reasonable for our worn-out ultra-reserve defenders to have to stick every tackle like they're Ronnie Lott for the defense to work? That's what our defense scheme seemed to need.

Again, that might be the only type of that play you see on 'highlights' because it was more exciting than the ho-hum variety of Brady-to-LaFell on 1st for 7 yards, Brady-to-Edelman on 2nd for 8 yards that were so common. I'll keep looking.

It's probably more reasonable to expect them to make open field tackles every play- a fundamental of playing defense in football at every level - than to play tight man coverage on an island against some crafty route runners and an offensive machine predicated on precision and timing.

If your point is the defensive calls exposed the weak secondary because it called on them to be near flawless in tackling, it doesn't stand to reason that they should have been called on to be flawless playing tight coverage with little to no cushion.

Covering their receivers requires more stamina and talent than coming forward to make a tackle.

[JoeyFlex5]

I know what hot reads are and almost every QB does them but Tom Brady does not have the deep ball he once did. I know this because whenever he throws deep, its either overthrown or picked off. I know alot more than most fans do. The dink and dunk is pretty much guaranteed completions. Im not saying play press but playing 3-4 yards from the receiver will atleast keep it competitive. I know our secondary was a joke but you have to stay physical and challenge the receivers. Pees did this on every single down. 3rd and inches? Play back; 3rd and goal? Still playing back. Our defense was exhausted by the end of the game because Tom Brady was being given easy pickens. And another thing, dont pit words in my mouth that I didnt say. I never said playing closer would solve all our problems. Certain situations, I expected Pees to change our coverage. Edelman and amendola make their money on short routes. They arent deep threats by any means.

not putting words in your mouth, your attitude about the situation says "press coverage eliminates short completions", which is wrong. 

 

need proof as to why press coverage is almost ALWAYS a bad idea with db's of this caliber? check the rare occasion where we did press cover in this game in the 2nd half, 25ish yard touchdown to lafell to give them the lead.

 

we had db's that are incapable of getting a good jam on the receiver, allows clean release, the db is stuck playing catch up, very very bad when youre facing brady, he will spot it every time, and dont take away from brady's arm, get real, he may not have the arm strength of flacco, but the touch he puts on the ball is still 2nd to none and as long as that pass is under 40 yards he is gonna put it RIGHT on the money 99% of the time, if the db is too inexperienced to know how to get his head turned to play the ball, then brady will exploit it, which he did. 

[beasy2487]

not putting words in your mouth, your attitude about the situation says "press coverage eliminates short completions", which is wrong.

need proof as to why press coverage is almost ALWAYS a bad idea with db's of this caliber? check the rare occasion where we did press cover in this game in the 2nd half, 25ish yard touchdown to lafell to give them the lead.

we had db's that are incapable of getting a good jam on the receiver, allows clean release, the db is stuck playing catch up, very very bad when youre facing brady, he will spot it every time, and dont take away from brady's arm, get real, he may not have the arm strength of flacco, but the touch he puts on the ball is still 2nd to none and as long as that pass is under 40 yards he is gonna put it RIGHT on the money 99% of the time, if the db is too inexperienced to know how to get his head turned to play the ball, then brady will exploit it, which he did.

And you know what makes up for those ducks up the seam? Gronk. The funny thing is, in the end it was the trick plays that were the difference. I think it's funny that people want to point to other things. We got beat with a WR TD pass and a rule so obscure it is now obsolete. That's football at its highest level. Our guys played and coached their tails off and lost a game by a small margin that they were supposed to get blown out in.

The Pats pulled out all the stops and got their swan song SB...which was supposed to solidify Brady's legacy...if it weren't for that pesky cheating issue. Their time is over if our guys do what they're capable of over the next 3-5 seasons. I'm excited to see it play out.

[JoeyFlex5]

And you know what makes up for those ducks up the seam? Gronk. The funny thing is, in the end it was the trick plays that were the difference. I think it's funny that people want to point to other things. We got beat with a WR TD pass and a rule so obscure it is now obsolete. That's football at its highest level. Our guys played and coached their tails off and lost a game by a small margin that they were supposed to get blown out in.

The Pats pulled out all the stops and got their swan song SB...which was supposed to solidify Brady's legacy...if it weren't for that pesky cheating issue. Their time is over if our guys do what they're capable of over the next 3-5 seasons. I'm excited to see it play out.

i think over the next decade we are gonna see the ravens, colts, and... bear with me... the raiders, duking it out for AFC supremacy, while the patriots, broncos, steelers and chargers all fade into obscurity the day their qb's retire.

[redrum52]

i think over the next decade we are gonna see the ravens, colts, and... bear with me... the raiders, duking it out for AFC supremacy, while the patriots, broncos, steelers and chargers all fade into obscurity the day their qb's retire.

I've been saying for a couple years the Raiders have been building their team the right way. I don't know why, but I'd like to see that franchise winning. I do see us and the Colts leading the way as the new guard of AFC powerhouses. Pains me to say it, but the BENGALS as well if Dalton can put it together mentally. There's going to be a huge shift in powers over the next 2-3 years I think.

[JoeyFlex5]

I've been saying for a couple years the Raiders have been building their team the right way. I don't know why, but I'd like to see that franchise winning. I do see us and the Colts leading the way as the new guard of AFC powerhouses. Pains me to say it, but the BENGALS as well if Dalton can put it together mentally. There's going to be a huge shift in powers over the next 2-3 years I think.

with derek carr, khalil mack, and amari cooper, they have probably the 3 best young cornerstones in the league, theyve had solid free agencies the past 2 years as well. theyre a couple free agent bargains and a solid draft away from being real contenders.

[redrum52]

with derek carr, khalil mack, and amari cooper, they have probably the 3 best young cornerstones in the league, theyve had solid free agencies the past 2 years as well. theyre a couple free agent bargains and a solid draft away from being real contenders.

Yea, they're being smart with draft picks and FA signings. The west is going to be a toss up real soon and the guys they're are taking, you can build your team around. Think they could've done better with that Hayden pick a couple years ago though.

Edited July 8, 2015 by redrum52

[ravensdan]

i think over the next decade we are gonna see the ravens, colts, and... bear with me... the raiders, duking it out for AFC supremacy, while the patriots, broncos, steelers and chargers all fade into obscurity the day their qb's retire.

I don't think the steelers and chargers QBs will be retiring in 3-5 years. And I don't think the colts are building their team well at all. They have Luck whicj will put them in contention but they are doing virtually nothing else right. I think the teams to watch out for are the Jaguars and Chiefs.