Dean Pees NFL.com Coordinator Ranking

[ravensdfan]

Where is that definition of prevent defense coming from? If we're putting things on the record please provide reliable sources.

That web link in it's explanation of the prevent defense calls it the prevent offense. The writing is pretty poor - so not sure of the writer's credibility or expertise.

And it seems like a copy and paste definition of what Wikipedia says about prevent defense. Although something that even these sources point out is that the prevent defense is almost always reserved for the final seconds-to-maybe-minute of a half or game to prevent the only likely way the offense can score a TD - with one long play.

It also indicates taking off bigger, slower players in favor of faster ones with better ball skills. Leaving your linebackers on the field doesn't fit the profile.

It's not a defensive scheme anyone would employ for elongated periods of time with plenty of game left to be played.

I know you've conceded the point so it may not even bear repeating, but what Pees did against the Patriots was not a prevent defense.

--

To your point of 4th quarter collapses by the defense... I have a feeling I know exactly the games you're thinking of.

Most were games where the offense did literally nothing in the 1st half to 3 quarters of the game. The defense played lights out in most cases over that time to keep the team in those games.

It just so happened that once the offense finally got hot, for the final quarter+ of the game, the opposing offense also happened to find an answer to have success against the defense.

In most of those games had the offense done literally anything in the first half to 3/4's of the game we would've won.

You can call it a late game collapse by the defense but that overlooks the great play by them earlier which is the only reason a late offensive surge was enough to make it close.

Those losses could be more appropriately attributed to first 3 quarter collapses by the offense.

You can say well hey the offense did what it needed to when it counted - but unfortunately the whole game counts. And had the defense not been so stingy early on, the 2 late scores by the offense would have only been garbage time consolation points.

The link has been posted 4 times in the thread. In fact, I think more than one link to the definition has been posted.

 

Perhaps you like this one better:

 

"a football defense in which linebackers and b"acks play deeper than usual in order to prevent the completion of a long pass" Miriam Webster definition, which actually proves we did more than the other link.

 

or this one:

 

"Prevent defense – A defensive formation where the team on defense is simply trying to prevent giving up a long, quick play for a touchdown and keep the clock running by leaving defenders deep and along the sidelines to keep the ball carrier in bounds. Offenses can gain yardage up the middle of the field, but that will come at the cost of time off the clock."

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/glossary_general

 

All prove my point that there is not ONE formation considered prevent defense like some claim.

 

You are talking about 4th quarter meltdowns in 2013, I was talking about all three seasons. My point still stands that your claim that the defense has been our strongest unit and handing us 2-3 wins is not factual over the course of Pees tenure here. The only year that may apply would be 2013.

[The Raven]

I have a headache.

[Rav'n Maniac]

I have a headache.

... and bloodshot eyes.

[Cillmatic]

Who cares?

[BmoreBird22]

I have a headache.

Yeah, I really do not understand why we're trying to drill in this definition of a "prevent" defense because it's pretty clear Pees goes pretty aggressive in the postseason.

[Tank 92]

Dean Pees is the Ravens defensive coordinator. Let's hope his squad does well this year, no matter the formation played. smh

[K-Dog]

Its Cams fault.

[gabefergy]

"

Cover-4

To break it down in the most basic terms, we typically hear Cover-4 referred to as “prevent defense.” Each of the four DBs takes a fourth of the deep area (why we might hear this also referred to as “quarters” defense, not to be confused with a “quarter package”).

 

The prevent defense is incredibly susceptible to underneath throws, so we typically will see it only toward the end of a half with time running down or on third-and-forever situations when a team has to gain a big chunk of yards for a first down. But Cover-4 concepts can also be used to creep up to nine men in the box against a run-first team."

 

http://fantasyguru.com/football/subscribers/articles/8-5-11defense.php

 

More opinions on the Cover 4 defense:

 

"The cover 4 defense is basically the same thing as a prevent defense and is hardly ever used. It's gotten such a bad name that coaches don't want to admit that they've used it ("We weren't in a prevent" ranks right up there with "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" in the book of lies.)"

 

Glad we finally agree on that!

 

 

Cover 3: "

Cover-3

In the Cover-3, the two CBs and FS are responsible each for a deep third of the field, while the SS can creep into the box and play like an additional LB.

 

We’ll often see the Cover-3 against run-first teams because the QB won’t have a difficult time diagnosing the defense. It allows defenses to creep an eighth man into the box, but they can also use that eighth man (the SS) in man coverage against any receivers coming across the middle. The Cover-3 allows for extra pressure against the pass and bodies against the run, while utilizing the CBs and FS to protect against big plays.

 

We weren't running a Cover 3 IMO at least in my recollection later in the game, but if we were, that is insanity at its finest considering we'd made them pretty one dimensional at that point and they weren't running the ball at all.

You got this from a fantasy site? LMAO

 

Please, cover 4 is seen all the time in the NFL. This is completely inaccurate, and it is not a prevent defense! 

 

Prevent defense is trying to prevent long passes over the top, and allowing short passes because it doesn't hurt due to time left in the game and score differential.

 

The Ravens weren't giving away the short passes,because they had LBs and/or safeties covering underneath. Furthermore the depth of the DBs were not where you see them in a prevent D. 

[gabefergy]

No use getting hung up on the wording, she already qualified it - does it really matter or is it just a conduit to be demeaning?

 

What would you call the defense we played? Giving a large cushion and inviting short passes to, as some have said, run the clock down. IMO, that's entirely the opposite of what any D-coordinator wants to do. They're trying to get the ball back to the offense and let them run the clock down.

We played cover 4, also called quarters. It's a zone concept where one DB takes away a deep quarter of the field, and the other players, either LBs or nickel CB/Safety play in the zones underneath. 

 

That is exactly what the D-coordinator wants to do when his CBs are not capable of playing man to man while trying to get beat over the top. We have already seen what happens when he allows them to press. The only other option would be to play cover 2 which has the CBs playing the flats, but it allows for deep passing down the sidelines and passing down the seam. Tom Brady would have eaten us up throwing to Gronk in that defense.

 

FWIW, the defense would have worked too if Melvin had been able to make an open-field tackle. 

[ravensdfan]

You got this from a fantasy site? LMAO

 

Please, cover 4 is seen all the time in the NFL. This is completely inaccurate, and it is not a prevent defense! 

 

Prevent defense is trying to prevent long passes over the top, and allowing short passes because it doesn't hurt due to time left in the game and score differential.

 

The Ravens weren't giving away the short passes,because they had LBs and/or safeties covering underneath. Furthermore the depth of the DBs were not where you see them in a prevent D. 

 

Your opinion only.

 

This prevent defense  is a cover 4 zone.

http://youthfootballonline.com/prevent-defense-deterring-big-plays/

 

Cover 4:  This refers to having four deep defenders, each guarding one-fourth of the deep zone. The most basic Cover 4 scheme involves two cornerbacks and two safeties. The main advantage of a Cover 4 defense is that it is more difficult for quarterbacks to complete long passes against it. Therefore, this coverage is generally used as a Prevent Defense to be utilized near the end of a game or half.  Prevent Defense means that the defense sacrifices the run and short pass to avoid giving up the big play with the confidence that the clock will soon expire.

 

http://www.thecollegefootballgirl.com/football-terms/advanced/coverage-schemes/

 

Cover 4

 

This is "Prevent Defense." BORING. 4 defensive backs (the two safeties and 2 boundary cornerbacks) drop into deep zones, and their objective is to make sure no receivers get past them. With 1/3 of the defense playing deep downfield, this coverage shell is very good at stopping deep passes but very bad at preventing short to intermediate throws or any running play to the outside.

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/15/6000113/football-101-coverage-shells

 

There are thousands of others. Your opinion was duly noted by me but it still is only YOUR opinion it is not a prevent defense. It is commonly considered such and referred to as such in football circles. My only point was that the term "prevent defense" is not set in stone by your strict definition. I even clarified for you my opinion. I even said call it what you like. You seem somehow determined to be unequivocally right - sorry that is not the case.

 

Have a good holiday.

[gabefergy]

Your opinion only.

 

This prevent defense  is a cover 4 zone.

http://youthfootballonline.com/prevent-defense-deterring-big-plays/

 

Cover 4:  This refers to having four deep defenders, each guarding one-fourth of the deep zone. The most basic Cover 4 scheme involves two cornerbacks and two safeties. The main advantage of a Cover 4 defense is that it is more difficult for quarterbacks to complete long passes against it. Therefore, this coverage is generally used as a Prevent Defense to be utilized near the end of a game or half.  Prevent Defense means that the defense sacrifices the run and short pass to avoid giving up the big play with the confidence that the clock will soon expire.

 

http://www.thecollegefootballgirl.com/football-terms/advanced/coverage-schemes/

 

Cover 4

 

This is "Prevent Defense." BORING. 4 defensive backs (the two safeties and 2 boundary cornerbacks) drop into deep zones, and their objective is to make sure no receivers get past them. With 1/3 of the defense playing deep downfield, this coverage shell is very good at stopping deep passes but very bad at preventing short to intermediate throws or any running play to the outside.

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/15/6000113/football-101-coverage-shells

 

There are thousands of others. Your opinion was duly noted by me but it still is only YOUR opinion it is not a prevent defense. It is commonly considered such and referred to as such in football circles. My only point was that the term "prevent defense" is not set in stone by your strict definition. I even clarified for you my opinion. I even said call it what you like. You seem somehow determined to be unequivocally right - sorry that is not the case.

 

Have a good holiday.

It's not my opinion, you are just making it perfectly clear you don't understand NFL coverage schemes.

 

By your definition any time the defense doesn't blitz it is a prevent defense, which is simply not true.

 

Here, I'll try to help you out. Read this series of articles and it will help you understand what is going on.  There are links at the beginning to articles describing Cover 1, Cover 2, and Cover 3. The articles are written by a former NFL safety so he knows what he is talking about.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2094989-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-cover-4

 

You will notice that nowhere in the article does he call it a "prevent defense"

[gabefergy]

And here is Bowen's article on the Prevent Defense: 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2499421-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-prevent-defenses

 

Take note of the following, the bolded in particular.

 

However, this isn't a free pass to give up the middle of the field or allow an underneath throw to pick up a major chunk of yardage. That's little league stuff, with defenders dropping off the screen and creating wide-open throwing lanes for the quarterback.

Instead, NFL defensive coordinators are going to play their core schemes, adjust the depth/alignment of the back seven and continue to disrupt or challenge receivers at the line of scrimmage.

[BmoreBird22]

It's not my opinion, you are just making it perfectly clear you don't understand NFL coverage schemes.

 

By your definition any time the defense doesn't blitz it is a prevent defense, which is simply not true.

 

Here, I'll try to help you out. Read this series of articles and it will help you understand what is going on.  There are links at the beginning to articles describing Cover 1, Cover 2, and Cover 3. The articles are written by a former NFL safety so he knows what he is talking about.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2094989-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-cover-4

 

You will notice that nowhere in the article does he call it a "prevent defense"

 

 

And here is Bowen's article on the Prevent Defense: 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2499421-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-prevent-defenses

 

Take note of the following, the bolded in particular.

You beat me to it. I was just looking for those articles. Bowen was a good safety when he was actually healthy and I'd take anything he says over some random articles on the internet.

[jazz1988]

Not to beat a dead horse but that actually is not the definition of prevent defense -

 

This type of defense can take many forms, but it typically makes use of at least seven defensive backs, (or other players in the role of defensive backs) leaving only four defensive linemen. (imagine that - many forms...one would have thought it was one thing only from some here)

 

Just for the record...

 

In madden it is lol but good info

[ravensdfan]

And here is Bowen's article on the Prevent Defense: 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2499421-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-prevent-defenses

 

Take note of the following, the bolded in particular

Yes and I never said your opinion was not valid or that others did not share it. That is the difference between us. It is not black and white, Cover 4 is commonly considered a prevent defense by those in football circles. It is also not considered such in football circles. An opinion that can be disuputed depending on where you go and who is doing the writing. Again, call it whatever you like, we played soft too early in the game. One play where we actually did not does not change the 20 plays we did.

 

And you want to discredit sites but then quote bleacher report? Which is funny because I intentionally did not include one from bleacher report because it was bleacher report calling Cover 4 prevent defense.

Edited July 4, 2015 by ravensdfan

[Willbacker]

See where everybody is getting it wrong is its not the prevent defense its the prevent from winning defense.

[gabefergy]

Yes and I never said your opinion was not valid or that others did not share it. That is the difference between us. It is not black and white, Cover 4 is commonly considered a prevent defense by those in football circles. It is also not considered such in football circles. An opinion that can be disuputed depending on where you go and who is doing the writing. Again, call it whatever you like, we played soft too early in the game. One play where we actually did not does not change the 20 plays we did.

And you want to discredit sites but then quote bleacher report? Which is funny because I intentionally did not include one from bleacher report because it was bleacher report calling Cover 4 prevent defense.

Trying to discredit a former player because he writes at Bleacher report? K.

[ravensdfan]

Trying to discredit a former player because he writes at Bleacher report? K.

 

LOL Whatever dude. There are thousands of people who say otherwise. Which you realize is all I said yes? That people in football circles do refer to it as prevent defense. So you know, your one link doesn't change that point nor negate the evidence of that. You okay now?

 

Again, call it what you please and perhaps actually address the real issue - Pees goes to soft coverage too early and did so in that game. And little league they may call it, but if you think we didn't play so far off that we left wide open throwing lanes, I don't know what to tell you.

See where everybody is getting it wrong is its not the prevent defense its the prevent from winning defense.

 

lol Not always. It has its place.

Edited July 4, 2015 by ravensdfan

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Yes and I never said your opinion was not valid or that others did not share it. That is the difference between us. It is not black and white, Cover 4 is commonly considered a prevent defense by those in football circles. It is also not considered such in football circles. An opinion that can be disuputed depending on where you go and who is doing the writing. Again, call it whatever you like, we played soft too early in the game. One play where we actually did not does not change the 20 plays we did.

And you want to discredit sites but then quote bleacher report? Which is funny because I intentionally did not include one from bleacher report because it was bleacher report calling Cover 4 prevent defense.

Can you implement cover 4 as a form of prevent defense, yes.

But is what the ravens did in The playoffs prevent, no.

If you go cover 4 and start 10 yards off and back pedal immediately to 20-30 yards off then that's prevent.

If you come forward and aggressively play short passes, try to deny the short middle and flats then it's not a prevent defense.

It's all about how you implement the scheme. Cover 4 is just how you line up. What each players responsibilities are and how they react dictates whether you're in a prevent style defense or not.

We did not play prevent. But I see there's no point in arguing otherwise.

[ravensdfan]

Can you implement cover 4 as a form of prevent defense, yes.

But is what the ravens did in The playoffs prevent, no.

If you go cover 4 and start 10 yards off and back pedal immediately to 20-30 yards off then that's prevent.

If you come forward and aggressively play short passes, try to deny the short middle and flats then it's not a prevent defense.

It's all about how you implement the scheme. Cover 4 is just how you line up. What each players responsibilities are and how they react dictates whether you're in a prevent style defense or not.

We did not play prevent. But I see there's no point in arguing otherwise

Whatever you want to call it we did not come forward and aggressively defend the middle. Period. We gave everything up in front of us without any attack. That is just fact. Except for exactly 1 play late in the game. Which does not negate the rest of the plays.

[BmoreBird22]

Whatever you want to call it we did not come forward and aggressively defend the middle. Period. We gave everything up in front of us without any attack. That is just fact. Except for exactly 1 play late in the game. Which does not negate the rest of the plays.

Can you pull up a highlight video or any actual game footage that would show that's fact?

[gabefergy]

LOL Whatever dude. There are thousands of people who say otherwise. Which you realize is all I said yes? That people in football circles do refer to it as prevent defense. So you know, your one link doesn't change that point nor negate the evidence of that. You okay now?

Again, call it what you please and perhaps actually address the real issue - Pees goes to soft coverage too early and did so in that game. And little league they may call it, but if you think we didn't play so far off that we left wide open throwing lanes, I don't know what to tell you.

lol Not always. It has its place.

I tried to give you a resource that will allow you to make educated observations instead of just making things up to fit your story.

Ignoring an excellent resource because it is on bleacher report is laughable. I'll be the first to admit that site has tons of crap content, but it also has very good writers like Bowen as well.

If you want people to take your posts seriously, you should start by having knowledge about what you are posting.

[gabefergy]

Whatever you want to call it we did not come forward and aggressively defend the middle. Period. We gave everything up in front of us without any attack. That is just fact. Except for exactly 1 play late in the game. Which does not negate the rest of the plays.

This is not a fact. This is you making things up to fit your narrative per usual.

[BmoreBird22]

This is not a fact. This is you making things up to fit your narrative per usual.

Yeah, it's pretty well proven psychologically that if you have biases, especially on a subject that isn't well understood, your memory can be distorted to fit your biases

[gabefergy]

Yeah, it's pretty well proven psychologically that if you have biases, especially on a subject that isn't well understood, your memory can be distorted to fit your biases

The facts just  don't fit the narrative in this case. Pees actually brought pressure on that final drive against NE 4 times, one being a zone blitz. It was only effective once probably because it was just a 3 man route and coverage held up. Brady was just too good at getting the ball out fast, and we were out-manned plain and simple. NE was running 4 and 5 man routes most of the drive which is a nightmare to match-up against when they have 2 TEs and a RB on the field.

[BmoreBird22]

The facts just  don't fit the narrative in this case. Pees actually brought pressure on that final drive against NE 4 times, one being a zone blitz. It was only effective once probably because it was just a 3 man route and coverage held up. Brady was just too good at getting the ball out fast, and we were out-manned plain and simple. NE was running 4 and 5 man routes most of the drive which is a nightmare to match-up against when they have 2 TEs and a RB on the field.

I've said all along in this thread that he does play aggressive in the playoffs, but like you said, sometimes offensive match ups and formations dictate the defensive calls you can make and people don't understand this. 

[Cillmatic]

People just don't like Pees.

[Tru11]

People just don't like Pees.

 

yup

[ravensdfan]

The facts just  don't fit the narrative in this case. Pees actually brought pressure on that final drive against NE 4 times, one being a zone blitz. It was only effective once probably because it was just a 3 man route and coverage held up. Brady was just too good at getting the ball out fast, and we were out-manned plain and simple. NE was running 4 and 5 man routes most of the drive which is a nightmare to match-up against when they have 2 TEs and a RB on the field.

Brady was crazy good at getting the ball out fast - I think I read somewhere he averaged like 2.5 seconds or less. Not arguing that point in the least - but it was confusing why we kept on sending Doom and Suggs outside with little interior pressure when it was obvious they were being completely negated.

 

Without actually going back and watching the final NE drive - I will take what you say about that drive for gospel however, I wasn't only speaking of that final drive and perhaps I was not clear about that part. I thought I had said that we began giving that 10 yd cushion around mid-3rd quarter - then tightened up a bit but early in 4th went right back to it.

 

I also thought I'd made it clear that I'd conceded the argument from the Pees supporters in other threads that he did not have much choice given the personnel and the injuries we'd been hit with that season. We played scared defense with a 14 pt lead. IMO you should not ever do that but I conceded the point due to the injuries the secondary had suffered.

 

I'm not sure why you want to beat this point to death with me specifically when others have said the same thing about Pees scheme and that particular game. I find it interesting - but not enough to waste any more time on what amounts to a difference of opinion and nothing more.

 

So I leave you with the following:

 

"The only real criticism here is the decision to go with soft coverage late in the game with a field-goal lead." on Coaching for the Divisional match-up analysis.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2325687-report-cards-from-nfls-saturday-divisional-games/page/2

Edited July 6, 2015 by ravensdfan

[berad]

Can you pull up a highlight video or any actual game footage that would show that's fact?

 

6:41 which is 7:18 left in the 4th quarter, Ravens 31, Patriots 28, Patriots ball, 3rd and 6 at our 44

 

You see DBs standing 10 yards back, no one is even seen on the left side of the screen where the ball is invenitably thrown to Amendola, Melvin misses a tackle, and Levine makes a attempt but Amendola still crosses the first down marker after an effort.

 

Now I doubt you'll see many of the type of plays like in this in highlights because they were part of ho-hum 10 play drives, or were used to get field postion and set-up the more-flashy trick play and long pass. Brady and the receivers had some very easy plays because they were intentionally left open and only had to worry about breaking tackles.

 

Is it reasonable to assume that EVERY tackle will be made? Those offensive players get paid, too. The defense seemed to be predicated on hoping that worn-out reserve players defending long drives will make every tackle perfectly - that, and hoping for drops. Any error is enough margin to allow them to get first downs...

 

I'm not running Pees out of town but he is not above criticism.