Dean Pees NFL.com Coordinator Ranking

[The Raven]

Yeah, Pees loves the 4 man rush. Can't ssy I blame him when you have guys like Doom and Suggs.

 

All of the best defenses can get pressure with four, including us most of the time. It's a fact.

 

Do you know what the prevent defense is? I can guarantee you he didn't play it and if you think he did, I encourage you to go back and watch the game.

 

Now you already know the answer to this.

[redrum52]

Off topic. Not trying to derail the thread, but not trying to make a new one. Anyone with a PFF subscription , can you tell me Revis' 5 worst games?

Also, there shouldn't be much reason to rush extra men with our personnel. Especially when oat of your starting CBS are watching from the sidelines. Again, I think Pees shuts a lot of people up this year.

[ravensdfan]

Off topic. Not trying to derail the thread, but not trying to make a new one. Anyone with a PFF subscription , can you tell me Revis' 5 worst games?

Also, there shouldn't be much reason to rush extra men with our personnel. Especially when oat of your starting CBS are watching from the sidelines. Again, I think Pees shuts a lot of people up this year.

 

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

 

For the hard headed & in denial:

The prevent defense is a defensive alignment that seeks to prevent the offense from completing a long pass or scoring a touchdown in a single play. They back up so far that they concede short-yardage plays, but try to ensure that no WR will be uncovered downfield or can get behind them.

 

Sorry if you think otherwise, but playing so far off as we did is indeed considered a prevent defense in normal circles even if there is not the usual 7 or more players being used as DBs. It is STILL considered prevent defense. If you'd like another term I'm happy to call it "let them get first downs on every play" because that is what it essentially did.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ravensdfan

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

Well you'd think winning a Super Bowl would have.

Then you'd think successfully transitioning from having Lewis and Reed to going without them while maintaining if not improving the defense would.

Then getting to the divisional round and coming within a couple trick plays and missed tackles away from beating the eventual Super Bowl champions with arguably the worst secondary (fielding practice squad and hobbled players) would definitely have to....

Nope. And nothing short of leading the league in yards allowed, points allowed, sacks, turnovers, and red zone defense while winning the Super Bowl will.

Because if it's just the stats it'll be "how could pees not win us a ring with all that talent!"

And if we win a Super Bowl it'll be "yea but we won it in spite of Pees terrible scheming and play calling..."

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

For the hard headed & in denial:

The prevent defense is a defensive alignment that seeks to prevent the offense from completing a long pass or scoring a touchdown in a single play. They back up so far that they concede short-yardage plays, but try to ensure that no WR will be uncovered downfield or can get behind them.

Sorry if you think otherwise, but playing so far off as we did is indeed considered a prevent defense in normal circles even if there is not the usual 7 or more players being used as DBs. It is STILL considered prevent defense. If you'd like another term I'm happy to call it "let them get first downs on every play" because that is what it essentially did.

In a prevent defense they typically drop off like 20 yards or more and is usually reserved or late in games with time expiring up by a score or less to prevent the ball from getting behind the defense.

That's why it says prevent the other team from scoring in a single play... Read: in situations where the offense has only enough time to run one or two plays before time expires.

Maybe it was conservative... But it worked perfectly the entire 1st half. The Patriots used gimmicks that are now illegal to move the ball and get that momentum changing TD.

Then mostly blow coverages, perfect throws and poor tackling beat us.

We were giving cushion, sure. But the whole 10 yards off every play is exaggerated. Why wouldn't you allow the offense to throw 2-4 yard passes every play when up 2 TDs? It's no different than them running the ball every down. Short gains and keeps the clock running. That's what you want.

It's not a bad idea at all especially considering the secondary we had and the fact that we were forcing the ball out of Brady's hand early.

If we didn't allow Edelman and Ridley to turn those 2 yard catches into 20 yard gains every single play late in the game it would've worked perfectly.

If executed properly (like it was in the first half) it was the perfect way to play that offense.

I'm assuming most of the people complaining about how Pees called that game would've have liked to see us play more aggressively, pressing at the line like the hmmmmm Seahawks right? How'd that work out for them?

Tom Brady threw all over them in the 2nd half. In fact, our defense, depleted secondary, prevent defense and all played the Patriots offense much better.

So tell me, if the Seahawks with their personnel and best secondary in the league got burned while being more aggressive in coverage and with pressure - how could you possibly think that would have been a better alternative with our secondary?

[ravensdfan]

Well you'd think winning a Super Bowl would have.

Then you'd think successfully transitioning from having Lewis and Reed to going without them while maintaining if not improving the defense would.

Then getting to the divisional round and coming within a couple trick plays and missed tackles away from beating the eventual Super Bowl champions with arguably the worst secondary (fielding practice squad and hobbled players) would definitely have to....

Nope. And nothing short of leading the league in yards allowed, points allowed, sacks, turnovers, and red zone defense while winning the Super Bowl will.

Because if it's just the stats it'll be "how could pees not win us a ring with all that talent!"

And if we win a Super Bowl it'll be "yea but we won it in spite of Pees terrible scheming and play calling..."

I don't even really place that 2014 AFCCG loss on Pees. I've conceded to calling 2014 an anomaly due to the sheer number of injuries. We WERE playing prevent, and as others have said in other threads it could be a case of not knowing what else to try at that point with our depleted secondary. I've agreed to say that is the case and let 2014 be what it was on its own.

 

We disagree on 2012 - it was a defense that squandered a 27 pt lead and needed an amazing goal line stand to win. Video shows Reed & Lewis coaching up those players until the very end down on the field - so we'll have to disagree on exactly how much credit Pees gets there - not saying he doesn't get any credit at all, just to the balance of it.

 

2013 our defense was deflated in the 4th quarter wayyyyyyyyyy too many times. TOP proved pretty balanced for most games so the old stand-by "let's blame the offense for 3 and outs" doesn't fly in the face of facts. From 2012 -2013 our run defense did improve - there is no argument there and I've said that a bazillion times - but the rest remained the same statistically. Ranking only means more teams did worse than us that year.

 

Yards allowed directly affects the game - period. It is not just some useless stat you can point to and say "nah - that don't mean nuttin'. Just points!". Yards allowed affects starting field position for the offense - and can affect play calling offensively depending on how bad it is. Allowing six to eight minute drives keeps our offense off the field - lessening our opportunities to score as it takes time off the clock. There is a reason yards allowed is measured as a defensive stat - because it matters.

 

All that aside - my main problem with this defense has been (even in 2012, though to a much lesser extent) their collapses late in close games. It is not always the players  - though sometimes it is and easily seen - and while some like to claim "everyone should get pressure with 4" -  never ever ever sending a blitz on 3rd and long is conservative play calling, period. Too conservative IMO. Especially when it leads to back-up QBs going down the field at will against us. When it is evident that sending 4 is NOT creating pressure. The pressure is getting there - great! But when it isn't - Pees consistently (or stubbornly, whichever) refuses to change it up.

 

This isn't just a 2014 thing - but one since he's been here - so the bad secondary, injured secondary, depleted secondary excuse doesn't cover why he just keeps on doing what clearly is not working.

 

I have no issue being proven wrong about the man at all - by all means Please Mr. Pees prove me wrong!!! I'm begging you!!!

 

 

We were giving cushion, sure. But the whole 10 yards off every play is exaggerated. Why wouldn't you allow the offense to throw 2-4 yard passes every play when up 2 TDs? It's no different than them running the ball every down. Short gains and keeps the clock running. That's what you want.

 

 

Except that they scored a TD....easily....now we're only 1 score ahead and then we did it all over again....and they scored a TD...easily. But, like I said, I've conceded to just let that be on its own merit - there were just various things that happened in there as well.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ravensdfan

[gabefergy]

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

 

For the hard headed & in denial:

The prevent defense is a defensive alignment that seeks to prevent the offense from completing a long pass or scoring a touchdown in a single play. They back up so far that they concede short-yardage plays, but try to ensure that no WR will be uncovered downfield or can get behind them.

 

Sorry if you think otherwise, but playing so far off as we did is indeed considered a prevent defense in normal circles even if there is not the usual 7 or more players being used as DBs. It is STILL considered prevent defense. If you'd like another term I'm happy to call it "let them get first downs on every play" because that is what it essentially did.

The game winning TD came on a play where the CB was playing press-man. He wasn't very good at it, got beat, and gave up the TD.

 

Giving a cushion and allowing underneath passes is not the prevent defense, which you clearly don't understand. It's called cover 3 or cover 4 defense and is extremely common throughout the NFL.

Edited July 2, 2015 by gabefergy

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

This isn't just a 2014 thing - but one since he's been here - so the bad secondary, injured secondary, depleted secondary excuse doesn't cover why he just keeps on doing what clearly is not working.

I have no issue being proven wrong about the man at all - by all means Please Mr. Pees prove me wrong!!! I'm begging you!!!

Except that they scored a TD....easily....now we're only 1 score ahead and then we did it all over again....and they scored a TD...easily. But, like I said, I've conceded to just let that be on its own merit - there were just various things that happened in there as well.

Our defense has been the strength of this team Pees entire tenure, except during the 2012 playoff run.

And this team has been a consistent winner, winning 1 Super Bowl, barely losing to the eventual champs, and 1 down year where there was a complete overhaul of talent and an offense with no identity.

I'm not crowning the guy - but I find it hard to want to replace the guy in charge of running our strongest unit during the timeframe which I think when his tenure is done will go down as the most successful in Ravens history... And has an opportunity to be among the most successful overall teams in over a decade.

Yes yards matter, and you explained why very well. But if points don't come at the end of those yards, despite the negative impact of giving up the yards - you're still giving your offense a chance to win games (which btw we do pretty often).

And on the Pats game... The TDs they scored easily - do you mean the Edelman TD throw on the trick play, the LaFell TD they scored easily when Melvin actually pressed at the line and got beat over the top, the one where Elam missed that easy open field tackle, or the one immediately following the eligible/ineligible confusion?

Because none of those had remotely anything to do with "prevent" defense... In fact going "prevent" probably would've PREVENTED them from scoring on the trick play and the LaFell TD. Both of those happened because we actually were too aggressive, over pursued, or what happens when you ask Melvin to press man on even a decent receiver.

[ravensdfan]

The game winning TD came on a play where the CB was playing press-man. He wasn't very good at it, got beat, and gave up the TD.

 

Giving a cushion and allowing underneath passes is not the prevent defense, which you clearly don't understand. It's called cover 3 or cover 4 defense and is extremely common throughout the NFL.

Actually you're mistaken - it is not a prevent defense in the strictest sense of the definition but giving a 7-10 yds cushion, rushing 4 and dropping 7 is referred to as a prevent defense all the time. Saying something is extemely common - not sure what that has to do with anything - at this point in time most things are common, are being done, have been done.

 

You are talking about one play - know how they got down there? 2 yds, 4 yds, 6 yds, 8 yds ...I think the longest was 9 yds. Either way - you're simply arguing for arguing's sake when I already said i wrote 2014 off as an anomaly and wasn't really holding Pees accountable for that game.

 

Our defense has been the strength of this team Pees entire tenure, except during the 2012 playoff run.

And this team has been a consistent winner, winning 1 Super Bowl, barely losing to the eventual champs, and 1 down year where there was a complete overhaul of talent and an offense with no identity.

I'm not crowning the guy - but I find it hard to want to replace the guy in charge of running our strongest unit during the timeframe which I think when his tenure is done will go down as the most successful in Ravens history... And has an opportunity to be among the most successful overall teams in over a decade.

Yes yards matter, and you explained why very well. But if points don't come at the end of those yards, despite the negative impact of giving up the yards - you're still giving your offense a chance to win games (which btw we do pretty often).

And on the Pats game... The TDs they scored easily - do you mean the Edelman TD throw on the trick play, the LaFell TD they scored easily when Melvin actually pressed at the line and got beat over the top, the one where Elam missed that easy open field tackle, or the one immediately following the eligible/ineligible confusion?

Because none of those had remotely anything to do with "prevent" defense... In fact going "prevent" probably would've PREVENTED them from scoring on the trick play and the LaFell TD. Both of those happened because we actually were too aggressive, over pursued, or what happens when you ask Melvin to press man on even a decent receiver.

The Edelman TD - different animal 51 yd TD that's true. Again - so we're ignoring what I said was my biggest issue with the defense during Pees time here and arguing a game I already stated I wasn't blaming him for? Interesting. During a season I already said I was writing off an as anomaly? Interesting again.

 

Running our strongest unit? Wait...what? How so? I'm interested to hear how the defense has been our strongest unit since Pees has been here.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ravensdfan

[Tenacious Faulker]

Giving up 2 14 pt leads isn't success though and while there were things that snowballed, it was still what is generally called a prevent defense (even though some are in denial about that) in a do or die situation where we'd already given up one 14 pt lead. Not exactly a smart move.

 

I know that 2014 can be considered an anomaly given all the injuries. However, I am not seeing the vast improvement since Pees came here statistically, other than from 2012 - 2013 in the run game only, that some claim.  Our stats have remained virtually the same while our ranking has shifted, which only means more teams did worse in those areas.

 

My biggest issue with the defense tbh, is their talent for falling apart late in close games. Sometimes it is the players, sometimes it is that blasted conversative prevent crap, either way both those issues fall at the DC's feet when they happen over and over.

 

Being unable to stop cringing when the defense is on the field late in a close game is not success.

Now your just being obstuse.  Rex was the master of prevent defense.  Marv Lewis used it all the time too.  I remember them blowing more leads in their day than under Pees.  The old defense was stout, but gave up huge plays all the time - some for a loss.  Prevent defense (I dislike it too) has been a part of Bmore as long as I can remember.  It's like the trickle-down theory in economics - sounds good on paper, but fails utterly in practice.  

 

As for the meltdown in Foxborough, I think that those deceptive/illegal formations (the ones that Harbs had to take 5 yard penalty on to get the refs attention as they conferred about their legality) that the Pats employed several toime for big gains had a lot to do with that win.  That also had a lot to do with player execution as well and Belichick exploited our inexperienced secondary.  It was a masterful deception and if he played with any level of honor or sportmanship the Ravens would'e been in that SB.  But as they say "age and deceit will defeat youth and ability every time".  

 

Lastly even great defenses are going to get embarrassed in today's game.  Don't think for a minute you're comparing apple to apples here.  The rules have changed too much since 2006 and even more since 2000.  Those days are gone for good so you might as well acknowledge that and move on.  Pees is not the enemy and deserves some credit for the wins we're 

[BmoreBird22]

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

 

For the hard headed & in denial:

The prevent defense is a defensive alignment that seeks to prevent the offense from completing a long pass or scoring a touchdown in a single play. They back up so far that they concede short-yardage plays, but try to ensure that no WR will be uncovered downfield or can get behind them.

 

Sorry if you think otherwise, but playing so far off as we did is indeed considered a prevent defense in normal circles even if there is not the usual 7 or more players being used as DBs. It is STILL considered prevent defense. If you'd like another term I'm happy to call it "let them get first downs on every play" because that is what it essentially did.

No, a prevent defense is classified by having seven or more defensive backs, so if they're aren't it's not a prevent defense. It's hardly even used anymore. I mean, I guess the Patriots did use it on the final hail mary of the game and substitute in receivers and tight ends as defensive backs, but the point still remains that it's not a prevent defense. If you want prevent, think the three deep "safeties" playing about 30+ yards back and the corners playing about 15+ yards off. You'll pretty much only see it at the end of a game (I literally mean the end, like :10 left) when you're up by 9+ points.

 

And, again, as always, I encourage you to watch the game before making any claim because you're usually wrong. I went back and watched the game and most of the time, even in their cover three and cover four looks, they were sitting back about 5-6 yards and were pressing a pretty fair amount. They just had really shoddy tackling.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[BmoreBird22]

We disagree on 2012 - it was a defense that squandered a 27 pt lead and needed an amazing goal line stand to win. Video shows Reed & Lewis coaching up those players until the very end down on the field - so we'll have to disagree on exactly how much credit Pees gets there - not saying he doesn't get any credit at all, just to the balance of it.

I encourage you to find said videos because I downloaded the entire game and yes, they're aligning players, as they should based on offensive alignment (the defense makes their calls without seeing the offensive formations, so they do require being put in place), but they're not audibling or making all these crazy changes. They're doing exactly what they're supposed to do and you really blow this out of proportion. I encourage you to show me a video that suggests otherwise because I downloaded the game and watched it the other day because you keep making this false claim without any basis. Just saying it happened with no proof doesn't make it true.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Actually you're mistaken - it is not a prevent defense in the strictest sense of the definition but giving a 7-10 yds cushion, rushing 4 and dropping 7 is referred to as a prevent defense all the time. Saying something is extemely common - not sure what that has to do with anything - at this point in time most things are common, are being done, have been done.

You are talking about one play - know how they got down there? 2 yds, 4 yds, 6 yds, 8 yds ...I think the longest was 9 yds. Either way - you're simply arguing for arguing's sake when I already said i wrote 2014 off as an anomaly and wasn't really holding Pees accountable for that game.

The Edelman TD - different animal 51 yd TD that's true. Again - so we're ignoring what I said was my biggest issue with the defense during Pees time here and arguing a game I already stated I wasn't blaming him for? Interesting. During a season I already said I was writing off an as anomaly? Interesting again.

Running our strongest unit? Wait...what? How so? I'm interested to hear how the defense has been our strongest unit since Pees has been here.

I only brought the Pats game back up bc of your comment that the "prevent" defense was responsible for giving up easy TDs - so I challenged you to point out which of the easy TDs was a result of being in this "prevent" defense... Bc in reality the opposite is true. Pretty much every TD we gave up came on plays where we either pressed, were overly aggressive, or missed easy open field tackles where the defensive call put us in great position to make the stop.

And are you arguing that our offense has been the strength of this team outside of the 2012 playoff run?

Being among the best in the league in points allowed and red zone defense consistently I would say has been our strength - regardless if it's only because other teams were worse. If you near lead the league in fewest point allowed you are likely to be in every game because on average almost every team you play is giving up more points. Since you win the game by scoring more points than your opponent - I'd say that's the strength of the team considering we haven't been near The top of the league in points scored.

So if our offense isn't near tops in scoring and our defense were to be similarly average in allowing points - then by averages we'd likely end up near 8-8. The defense being stingy in allowing points gives us those extra 2-3 wins.

[ravensfan160]

I have my complaints about Pees but overall he's a solid coordinator. But frankly the biggest reason why I like him is that he is too old to realistically get a head coaching opportunity so we can finally have some continuity there. Even though it meant losing Tery Austin to the Lions, Austin will probably be a head coach in a year or two anyway.

[Tru11]

prevent defense is 3 man rushing the passer and 8 man dropping into deep coverage.

 

majority of the game we rushed as least 4  mixed with man to man , cover 2, cover 3 and cover 4.

neither are considered prevent defense.

 

also for the record the 2012 play off defense had the most forced turnovers and sacks of any other defense in the play offs.

to say they where not a strength is just crazy.

 

colts only managed 3 FGs.

 

they held manning and the broncos to 3 passing TD but in return forced 2 INT with 1 being a pick 6 and the other setting up the FG in OT.

they also forced a fumble in the 3rd quarter that ended in a rice TD.

 

They shut out brady in the 2nd half of the pats game.

Forced 2 INT and a fumble as well.

 

in the SB they where just as hot as the offense before HT giving up only 2 FGs and where just as cold as the offense after the lights went out.

the offense only managed 2 FGs afte the lights went out so people seriously needs to stop acting like they where still playing and it was only the defense that got worse.

 

Both the offense and defense got hot in the play offs and both carried us to the SB win.

Just go to ESPN and look at all the drives if you dont believe me.

its all documented play by play...

[gabefergy]

Actually you're mistaken - it is not a prevent defense in the strictest sense of the definition but giving a 7-10 yds cushion, rushing 4 and dropping 7 is referred to as a prevent defense all the time. Saying something is extemely common - not sure what that has to do with anything - at this point in time most things are common, are being done, have been done.

You are talking about one play - know how they got down there? 2 yds, 4 yds, 6 yds, 8 yds ...I think the longest was 9 yds. Either way - you're simply arguing for arguing's sake when I already said i wrote 2014 off as an anomaly and wasn't really holding Pees accountable for that game.

The Edelman TD - different animal 51 yd TD that's true. Again - so we're ignoring what I said was my biggest issue with the defense during Pees time here and arguing a game I already stated I wasn't blaming him for? Interesting. During a season I already said I was writing off an as anomaly? Interesting again.

Running our strongest unit? Wait...what? How so? I'm interested to hear how the defense has been our strongest unit since Pees has been here.

No I am not mistaken, you are quite wrong here. Prevent defense is only used when the team is up multiple scores or when there is only time for a couple plays to go the length of the field, like Denver was playing us in the 2012 AFCD game.

Rushing 4 and dropping 7 is called not blitzing. According to you, any non-blitz is prevent D? Please stop embarrassing yourself already.

Edited July 2, 2015 by gabefergy

[berad]

No I am not mistaken, you are quite wrong here. Prevent defense is only used when the team is up multiple scores or when there is only time for a couple plays to go the length of the field, like Denver was playing us in the 2012 AFCD game.

Rushing 4 and dropping 7 is called not blitzing. According to you, any non-blitz is prevent D? Please stop embarrassing yourself already.

 

No use getting hung up on the wording, she already qualified it - does it really matter or is it just a conduit to be demeaning?

 

What would you call the defense we played? Giving a large cushion and inviting short passes to, as some have said, run the clock down. IMO, that's entirely the opposite of what any D-coordinator wants to do. They're trying to get the ball back to the offense and let them run the clock down.

[ravensdfan]

Now your just being obstuse.  Rex was the master of prevent defense.  Marv Lewis used it all the time too.  I remember them blowing more leads in their day than under Pees.  The old defense was stout, but gave up huge plays all the time - some for a loss.  Prevent defense (I dislike it too) has been a part of Bmore as long as I can remember.  It's like the trickle-down theory in economics - sounds good on paper, but fails utterly in practice.  

 

As for the meltdown in Foxborough, I think that those deceptive/illegal formations (the ones that Harbs had to take 5 yard penalty on to get the refs attention as they conferred about their legality) that the Pats employed several toime for big gains had a lot to do with that win.  That also had a lot to do with player execution as well and Belichick exploited our inexperienced secondary.  It was a masterful deception and if he played with any level of honor or sportmanship the Ravens would'e been in that SB.  But as they say "age and deceit will defeat youth and ability every time".  

 

Lastly even great defenses are going to get embarrassed in today's game.  Don't think for a minute you're comparing apple to apples here.  The rules have changed too much since 2006 and even more since 2000.  Those days are gone for good so you might as well acknowledge that and move on.  Pees is not the enemy and deserves some credit for the wins we're 

 

I don't hate prevent defense - it certainly has its place - or , to make others happy, we'll just call it dropping back, playing 10 yds off and giving them everything up front. I hate that at times we seem to rely on it too early or when we are not up multiple scores.

 

I only brought the Pats game back up bc of your comment that the "prevent" defense was responsible for giving up easy TDs - so I challenged you to point out which of the easy TDs was a result of being in this "prevent" defense... Bc in reality the opposite is true. Pretty much every TD we gave up came on plays where we either pressed, were overly aggressive, or missed easy open field tackles where the defensive call put us in great position to make the stop.

And are you arguing that our offense has been the strength of this team outside of the 2012 playoff run?

Being among the best in the league in points allowed and red zone defense consistently I would say has been our strength - regardless if it's only because other teams were worse. If you near lead the league in fewest point allowed you are likely to be in every game because on average almost every team you play is giving up more points. Since you win the game by scoring more points than your opponent - I'd say that's the strength of the team considering we haven't been near The top of the league in points scored.

So if our offense isn't near tops in scoring and our defense were to be similarly average in allowing points - then by averages we'd likely end up near 8-8. The defense being stingy in allowing points gives us those extra 2-3 wins.

 

defensive ranking 2012: 12th

offensive ranking 2012:   10th

 

defensive ranking 2013:12th

offensive ranking 2013:  25th (I actually thought this would be worse..huh)

 

defensive ranking 2014: 6th

offensive ranking 2014:  8th

 

These are rankings in points only since that is what you quantify and nothing else. So...in 2012, Offense was our strongest unit - in 2013 - defense was by far, I think we all know that, and in 2014 - only 2 ranking places separate them with the offense actually breaking or tying frachise records. Measuring only points btw. That hardly qualifies him leading by far our strongest unit. Basically the only year one can say the defense handed us 2-3 wins is 2013. Especially when one goes back and looks at 4th quarter defensive melt downs for all 3 seasons.

No I am not mistaken, you are quite wrong here. Prevent defense is only used when the team is up multiple scores or when there is only time for a couple plays to go the length of the field, like Denver was playing us in the 2012 AFCD game.

Rushing 4 and dropping 7 is called not blitzing. According to you, any non-blitz is prevent D? Please stop embarrassing yourself already.

Did I say any non-blitz is prevent D? No. We played 10 yds off receivers and gave them everything up front - and I said call it whatever you like, I've heard it referred to as prevent D by people who do so for a living but it matters little - it was the same effect. Like I said, arguing for arguing's sake.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ravensdfan

[ravensdfan]

prevent defense is 3 man rushing the passer and 8 man dropping into deep coverage.

 

majority of the game we rushed as least 4  mixed with man to man , cover 2, cover 3 and cover 4.

neither are considered prevent defense.

 

 

 

Not to beat a dead horse but that actually is not the definition of prevent defense -

 

This type of defense can take many forms, but it typically makes use of at least seven defensive backs, (or other players in the role of defensive backs) leaving only four defensive linemen. (imagine that - many forms...one would have thought it was one thing only from some here)

 

Just for the record...

Edited July 3, 2015 by ravensdfan

[52520Andrew]

While we are on the subject of this 7 dbs, 4 dl, prevent defense that we play argument, are you saying that Mosely and Daryl Smith aren't playing in those situations?

[K-Dog]

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nfl/prevent-defense.aspx

 

*shrugs*

[ravensdfan]

While we are on the subject of this 7 dbs, 4 dl, prevent defense that we play argument, are you saying that Mosely and Daryl Smith aren't playing in those situations?

 

No not necessarily. The definition clearly states 7 DBs or players being used as DBs. Both Mosely & Smith have been used in that capacity at times.

[BmoreBird22]

While we are on the subject of this 7 dbs, 4 dl, prevent defense that we play argument, are you saying that Mosely and Daryl Smith aren't playing in those situations?

If they're getting flexed out wide or dropping 20 yards deep like a safety, then yes, they'd count, but it's usually referring to a TE or wide receiver who gets subbed in because they have better hands and ball skills

[berad]

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nfl/prevent-defense.aspx

 

*shrugs*

 

From that link, BB breaks the thinking down pretty well

 

 

Based on what he said, there was way too much time left to reign the defense in

[52520Andrew]

If they're getting flexed out wide or dropping 20 yards deep like a safety, then yes, they'd count, but it's usually referring to a TE or wide receiver who gets subbed in because they have better hands and ball skills

No not necessarily. The definition clearly states 7 DBs or players being used as DBs. Both Mosely & Smith have been used in that capacity at times.

 

Which leads me to my next question, when are they dropping 20 yards deep into coverage or being flexed out wide on regular passing plays? Maybe covering the middle of the field against the TE or RB but you can have that on a base nickel, calling that a prevent defense seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Not to beat a dead horse but that actually is not the definition of prevent defense -

This type of defense can take many forms, but it typically makes use of at least seven defensive backs, (or other players in the role of defensive backs) leaving only four defensive linemen. (imagine that - many forms...one would have thought it was one thing only from some here)

Just for the record...

Where is that definition of prevent defense coming from? If we're putting things on the record please provide reliable sources.

That web link in it's explanation of the prevent defense calls it the prevent offense. The writing is pretty poor - so not sure of the writer's credibility or expertise.

And it seems like a copy and paste definition of what Wikipedia says about prevent defense. Although something that even these sources point out is that the prevent defense is almost always reserved for the final seconds-to-maybe-minute of a half or game to prevent the only likely way the offense can score a TD - with one long play.

It also indicates taking off bigger, slower players in favor of faster ones with better ball skills. Leaving your linebackers on the field doesn't fit the profile.

It's not a defensive scheme anyone would employ for elongated periods of time with plenty of game left to be played.

I know you've conceded the point so it may not even bear repeating, but what Pees did against the Patriots was not a prevent defense.

--

To your point of 4th quarter collapses by the defense... I have a feeling I know exactly the games you're thinking of.

Most were games where the offense did literally nothing in the 1st half to 3 quarters of the game. The defense played lights out in most cases over that time to keep the team in those games.

It just so happened that once the offense finally got hot, for the final quarter+ of the game, the opposing offense also happened to find an answer to have success against the defense.

In most of those games had the offense done literally anything in the first half to 3/4's of the game we would've won.

You can call it a late game collapse by the defense but that overlooks the great play by them earlier which is the only reason a late offensive surge was enough to make it close.

Those losses could be more appropriately attributed to first 3 quarter collapses by the offense.

You can say well hey the offense did what it needed to when it counted - but unfortunately the whole game counts. And had the defense not been so stingy early on, the 2 late scores by the offense would have only been garbage time consolation points.

Edited July 3, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[BmoreBird22]

Which leads me to my next question, when are they dropping 20 yards deep into coverage or being flexed out wide on regular passing plays? Maybe covering the middle of the field against the TE or RB but you can have that on a base nickel, calling that a prevent defense seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

And that's what others and I are saying

[ravensdfan]

The game winning TD came on a play where the CB was playing press-man. He wasn't very good at it, got beat, and gave up the TD.

 

Giving a cushion and allowing underneath passes is not the prevent defense, which you clearly don't understand. It's called cover 3 or cover 4 defense and is extremely common throughout the NFL.

"

Cover-4

To break it down in the most basic terms, we typically hear Cover-4 referred to as “prevent defense.” Each of the four DBs takes a fourth of the deep area (why we might hear this also referred to as “quarters” defense, not to be confused with a “quarter package”).

 

The prevent defense is incredibly susceptible to underneath throws, so we typically will see it only toward the end of a half with time running down or on third-and-forever situations when a team has to gain a big chunk of yards for a first down. But Cover-4 concepts can also be used to creep up to nine men in the box against a run-first team."

 

http://fantasyguru.com/football/subscribers/articles/8-5-11defense.php

 

More opinions on the Cover 4 defense:

 

"The cover 4 defense is basically the same thing as a prevent defense and is hardly ever used. It's gotten such a bad name that coaches don't want to admit that they've used it ("We weren't in a prevent" ranks right up there with "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" in the book of lies.)"

 

Glad we finally agree on that!

 

 

Cover 3: "

Cover-3

In the Cover-3, the two CBs and FS are responsible each for a deep third of the field, while the SS can creep into the box and play like an additional LB.

 

We’ll often see the Cover-3 against run-first teams because the QB won’t have a difficult time diagnosing the defense. It allows defenses to creep an eighth man into the box, but they can also use that eighth man (the SS) in man coverage against any receivers coming across the middle. The Cover-3 allows for extra pressure against the pass and bodies against the run, while utilizing the CBs and FS to protect against big plays.

 

We weren't running a Cover 3 IMO at least in my recollection later in the game, but if we were, that is insanity at its finest considering we'd made them pretty one dimensional at that point and they weren't running the ball at all.

Edited July 3, 2015 by ravensdfan

[ravensdfan]

Where is that definition of prevent defense coming from? If we're putting things on the record please provide reliable sources.

 

I forgot it, my bad.

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nfl/prevent-defense.aspx

[beasy2487]