Dean Pees NFL.com Coordinator Ranking

[edreed2o]

he did it because we know that Webb and Co. Would get. Blown up playing press. There's a reason 5'10 weak knees Webb plays off, he gets beat. It's either let guys play off or make them play close and get beat everytime. You pick.

Give your defense a chance to get off the field. 3rd and short is just an easy pitch and catch for a first down. New set of downs. And I never said press.

Edited June 29, 2015 by edreed2o

[edreed2o]

what?

really?

 

I gotta get my TV fixed.  I am missing a lot of the game then...

Every 3rd and long, yes.

[Tru11]

I just didn't agree with pees playcallng with the corners giving 10 yard cushions on every play. It would be 3rd and 2 with a 10 yard cushion. Tom Brady is notorious for his short,little passes and Pees never changed. I know our secondary was torn but still, those 3rd and shorts killed us every time because of how backed our DB's played.

 

so what play would you call on 3rd and 2 against 4 and 5 wide receivers sets?

[berad]

I just didn't agree with pees playcallng with the corners giving 10 yard cushions on every play. It would be 3rd and 2 with a 10 yard cushion. Tom Brady is notorious for his short,little passes and Pees never changed. I know our secondary was torn but still, those 3rd and shorts killed us every time because of how backed our DB's played.

 

Yup, another issue. If they play 10 yds off, it's easy to get cheap yards off of a short pass.

[BmoreBird22]

Yup, another issue. If they play 10 yds off, it's easy to get cheap yards off of a short pass.

But it's far better to give up just a few yards off of a short pass than play press man and give up 30.

I know you're not totally blind to this, but Jimmy was playing press man for the majority of his snaps. If venture to say 60%+ of his snaps were press man. It all comes down to confidence in the corner and when you're on your sixth string as your starter, you aren't going to let them press or play in high risk coverages. You'll do what ever it takes to protect them

[Tru11]

But it's far better to give up just a few yards off of a short pass than play press man and give up 30.

I know you're not totally blind to this, but Jimmy was playing press man for the majority of his snaps. If venture to say 60%+ of his snaps were press man. It all comes down to confidence in the corner and when you're on your sixth string as your starter, you aren't going to let them press or play in high risk coverages. You'll do what ever it takes to protect them

 

we tried press and lafell got behind melvin for a TD lol.

we tried man to man and amendola beat elam for a TD which was a huge mismatch.

Heck we tried being aggressive and got beat by that trick play.

 

TBH if we did what some are suggesting here it might have been a blow out ....

[berad]

But it's far better to give up just a few yards off of a short pass than play press man and give up 30.

I know you're not totally blind to this, but Jimmy was playing press man for the majority of his snaps. If venture to say 60%+ of his snaps were press man. It all comes down to confidence in the corner and when you're on your sixth string as your starter, you aren't going to let them press or play in high risk coverages. You'll do what ever it takes to protect them

 

I know Jimmy was in press and that's something Pees encouraged him to do. So is it that Pees dictates how they should play or do they have flexibility to line up how they wish?

[BmoreBird22]

I know Jimmy was in press and that's something Pees encouraged him to do. So is it that Pees dictates how they should play or do they have flexibility to line up how they wish?

I'd imagine it's a mixture. I think Peed calls whatever call it is and that sets the coverage, but if the secondary seems something, they'll adjust. The defensive backs use a lot of hand and arm movements when they're adjusting how they're linking up, so I'm guessing that's then making calls.

[berad]

I'd imagine it's a mixture. I think Peed calls whatever call it is and that sets the coverage, but if the secondary seems something, they'll adjust. The defensive backs use a lot of hand and arm movements when they're adjusting how they're linking up, so I'm guessing that's then making calls.

 

It probably is, don't know for sure. A safety will tell a guy to play a certain technique based on if they're going to get/give help or maybe a guy plays off because he's unsure.

 

So what was the solution in stopping those short passes? It looks like we played a lot of 'hope they drop it' defense.

[redrum52]

I'd imagine it's a mixture. I think Peed calls whatever call it is and that sets the coverage, but if the secondary seems something, they'll adjust. The defensive backs use a lot of hand and arm movements when they're adjusting how they're linking up, so I'm guessing that's then making calls.

Play call and the player I think.

For the Melvin td, that was decent coverage, I think and a very well placed pass.

Edited June 29, 2015 by redrum52

[BmoreBird22]

It probably is, don't know for sure. A safety will tell a guy to play a certain technique based on if they're going to get/give help or maybe a guy plays off because he's unsure.

 

So what was the solution in stopping those short passes? It looks like we played a lot of 'hope they drop it' defense.

I'd guess the solution was to come downhill fast and tackle well. The guys did a good job of coming downhill and breaking on the ball, but they just could not tackle to save their lives

[berad]

I'd guess the solution was to come downhill fast and tackle well. The guys did a good job of coming downhill and breaking on the ball, but they just could not tackle to save their lives

 

Not exactly a revelation for parts of our secondary. Again that sounds like reactionary defense and a way of conceding easy yards. Any team would be more than happy to scoop up 4-9 yard chunks every down.

[beasy2487]

I know Jimmy was in press and that's something Pees encouraged him to do. So is it that Pees dictates how they should play or do they have flexibility to line up how they wish?

I definitely think the CBs have some say in how they line up. I remember in 2013 right before Jimmy really came on Pees was on record saying that Jimmy "has a technique he can use, we just need to get him comfortable." I took that as referring to him getting over his early struggles with the double move and having the confidence to press. Shortly thereafter we saw Jimmy on receivers like glue.

the key point in that statement is 'he can,' which says that there is some choice to me.

[January J]

Pees is not a bad DC I just wish at times he would take more chances. But being that these rankings came from NFL.com It has no bearing because they along with NFL network have ABSOLUTLY NO RESPECT OR LOVE FOR OUR RAVENS I mean when you have guys like J. Dukes and H. Evans giving their opinions you know no intelligence was put into their thoughts before they made their opinion. Remember our last Super Bowl run Even at home agains Luck and the Colts NFL.com was predicting a Raven loss and R.Lewis retirement sooner rather than later. Then same thing with Broncos and Patriots. These guys (NFL.com or NFL network) just dont have what it takes when they rank or select people for who's best or worse.

you are correct- however I'm glad and wouldn't have wanted it any other way bc being the underdog is what propelled rays last ride and made us Super Bowl champions. It also made all of those same analysts feel that much dumber when we defied the odds. Skip bayless kept calling joe "FLUKE-O" saying he was going to choke and that there was no way he could get past Brady and then joe turned in one of the best postseason performances of all time and became the MVP. Man you gotta love it.

[berad]

I definitely think the CBs have some say in how they line up. I remember in 2013 right before Jimmy really came on Pees was on record saying that Jimmy "has a technique he can use, we just need to get him comfortable." I took that as referring to him getting over his early struggles with the double move and having the confidence to press. Shortly thereafter we saw Jimmy on receivers like glue.

the key point in that statement is 'he can,' which says that there is some choice to me.

 

Yep, that's exactly the quote I meant:

 

“He’s got a technique [that] he’s got to use, and he didn’t use it the other night. He’s got a distinct advantage in a way that he can play, and he didn’t necessarily play that way last week, and I think he will [this week]. And I think he’ll learn from that.”

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ravens-Have-Utmost-Confidence-In-Jimmy-Smith/d01b0008-4cd1-4637-add7-6a0cd7e89f45

 

Pees is quoted as "got" so maybe that implies he dictates it? I don't really know, though.

[DomMcRaven]

you are correct- however I'm glad and wouldn't have wanted it any other way bc being the underdog is what propelled rays last ride and made us Super Bowl champions. It also made all of those same analysts feel that much dumber when we defied the odds. Skip bayless kept calling joe "FLUKE-O" saying he was going to choke and that there was no way he could get past Brady and then joe turned in one of the best postseason performances of all time and became the MVP. Man you gotta love it.

Skip Bayless STILL calls him that too! Lol! I still remember when we were 7-2 during our Super Bowl season and Skippy says that not only would we miss the playoffs, but we would LOSE OUT! HA!!!!

[beasy2487]

Yep, that's exactly the quote I meant:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ravens-Have-Utmost-Confidence-In-Jimmy-Smith/d01b0008-4cd1-4637-add7-6a0cd7e89f45

Pees is quoted as "got" so maybe that implies he dictates it? I don't really know, though.

yea sounds like he's given Jimmy a few techniques he can choose from but the press technique is where he has the upper hand. glad Smith figured that out.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Not exactly a revelation for parts of our secondary. Again that sounds like reactionary defense and a way of conceding easy yards. Any team would be more than happy to scoop up 4-9 yard chunks every down.

I think the idea was since we were up 14 and scoring at will let them have the easy yards and make them run 15 plays or more with a running clock if they're going to score as opposed to one chunk play. And just on averages there will be some dropped passes, pressure will get there, or good enough coverage to force a couple stops.

Just everything that could've possibly gone wrong did. Terrible missed tackles, getting burned by trick plays, etc...

Actually until the trickery began and they got momentum, the secondary's coverage was perfectly fine.

And missing tackles and referees not allowing substitutions isn't Pees fault.

Edited June 30, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[BmoreBird22]

Yep, that's exactly the quote I meant:

 

 

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ravens-Have-Utmost-Confidence-In-Jimmy-Smith/d01b0008-4cd1-4637-add7-6a0cd7e89f45

 

Pees is quoted as "got" so maybe that implies he dictates it? I don't really know, though.

I mean, I think Pees will play the corners in what ever they're most comfortable with (he wouldn't bring Alteraun Verner here and ask him to press), but he's got to feel comfortable in their skills to do so on a consistent basis. 

 

Like I said, I think he gives the players a call and a set coverage and they can audible out, just like how the offense can audible a call.

[Blackbirds Rule]

I like that Teryl Austin and Hue Jackson as top three head coaching candidates. We have always had a strong coaching tree.

[berad]

I think the idea was since we were up 14 and scoring at will let them have the easy yards and make them run 15 plays or more with a running clock if they're going to score as opposed to one chunk play. And just on averages there will be some dropped passes, pressure will get there, or good enough coverage to force a couple stops.

Just everything that could've possibly gone wrong did. Terrible missed tackles, getting burned by trick plays, etc...

Actually until the trickery began and they got momentum, the secondary's coverage was perfectly fine.

And missing tackles and referees not allowing substitutions isn't Pees fault.

 

I've also seen what you're describing called a prevent defense. Perhaps we shouldn't have done that when we'd already seen one 14-pt lead evaporate. Not putting the loss at Pees' feet by any means, like you said lots of things snowballed and went wrong.

 

I mean, I think Pees will play the corners in what ever they're most comfortable with (he wouldn't bring Alteraun Verner here and ask him to press), but he's got to feel comfortable in their skills to do so on a consistent basis. 

 

Like I said, I think he gives the players a call and a set coverage and they can audible out, just like how the offense can audible a call.

 

I'd agree with that. He wants to play to his players strengths.

[Tenacious Faulker]

again, I'm talking about gong forward.

I don't understand.  He is the DC going forward.  He's helped uo get to where we are today.  He has the FO's confidence.  There isn't a better candidate available right now.  

 

Some may be dissatisfied with him and that's your perogative, but other than that "he doesn't play defense like Rex" or from the "hayday" what's not to like?  For me success is success no matter the form.   

Edited June 30, 2015 by Tenacious Faulker

[berad]

I don't understand.  He is the DC going forward.  He's helped uo get to where we are today.  He has the FO's confidence.  There isn't a better candidate available right now.  

 

Some may be dissatisfied with him and that's your perogative, but other than that "he doesn't play defense like Rex" or from the "hayday" what's not to like?  For me success is success no matter the form.   

 

This is also a good point.

[JoeyFlex5]

i could agree with that. i am one of pees' biggest supporters, some of the work he has done since coming here has been great. cant blame the coordinator for total ineptitude of an entire position group which he pretty much has dealt with every season since hes taken over

[ravensdfan]

I don't understand.  He is the DC going forward.  He's helped uo get to where we are today.  He has the FO's confidence.  There isn't a better candidate available right now.  

 

Some may be dissatisfied with him and that's your perogative, but other than that "he doesn't play defense like Rex" or from the "hayday" what's not to like?  For me success is success no matter the form.   

Giving up 2 14 pt leads isn't success though and while there were things that snowballed, it was still what is generally called a prevent defense (even though some are in denial about that) in a do or die situation where we'd already given up one 14 pt lead. Not exactly a smart move.

 

I know that 2014 can be considered an anomaly given all the injuries. However, I am not seeing the vast improvement since Pees came here statistically, other than from 2012 - 2013 in the run game only, that some claim.  Our stats have remained virtually the same while our ranking has shifted, which only means more teams did worse in those areas.

 

My biggest issue with the defense tbh, is their talent for falling apart late in close games. Sometimes it is the players, sometimes it is that blasted conversative prevent crap, either way both those issues fall at the DC's feet when they happen over and over.

 

Being unable to stop cringing when the defense is on the field late in a close game is not success.

Edited July 1, 2015 by ravensdfan

[1/28/01]

Every 3rd and long, yes.

Ha, no....like never does he send the house on 3rd and long. In fact, that's one of the very points of contention that some have with his play calling...too conservative in that very situation.

Talk about making something up to complain about, sheesh!

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Giving up 2 14 pt leads isn't success though and while there were things that snowballed, it was still what is generally called a prevent defense (even though some are in denial about that) in a do or die situation where we'd already given up one 14 pt lead. Not exactly a smart move.

I know that 2014 can be considered an anomaly given all the injuries. However, I am not seeing the vast improvement since Pees came here statistically, other than from 2012 - 2013 in the run game only, that some claim. Our stats have remained virtually the same while our ranking has shifted, which only means more teams did worse in those areas.

My biggest issue with the defense tbh, is their talent for falling apart late in close games. Sometimes it is the players, sometimes it is that blasted conversative prevent crap, either way both those issues fall at the DC's feet when they happen over and over.

Being unable to stop cringing when the defense is on the field late in a close game is not success.

With all the injuries in the secondary id say even being in a position to play the Patriots in that game was a success.

And considering all the turnover and injuries on that side of the ball we've had to deal with in Pees tenure, id contend that consistently ranking as a well above average defense while having almost no consistency in personnel is a solid achievement.

I don't always agree with Pees philosophy and I don't think he's one of the best coordinators in the league. But he's the best available to us and id prefer the consistency he's brought to the team over the carousel we've had on the other side of the ball.

While you can argue that maybe the conservative approach against the patriots led to the loss - you can also argue that with a lesser coordinator we never even make it to that game.

I didn't think we had a Super Bowl caliber roster heading into the season at full health. Yet we ended up nearly in the Super Bowl with arguably the worst secondary in football. That deserves some credit. With a healthy Jimmy Smith and Ladarius Webb we win that game with that philosophy.

I'd argue that if you take away the trick play, now illegal eligibility, and missed tackles we do win that game. The plays were there to be made to keep us on top. We didn't execute. Maybe being more aggressive ices the game - or maybe it exposes us and we get burned worse. We don't know.

But we do know that if just a couple plays turned out differently we would've won that game even with the conservative play calling - so I can't blame that. It's all about doing enough to win. The coaching was just adequate enough to win it, player execution wasn't.

And I'll take the guy that's just adequate enough to beat the eventual Super Bowl champions - meaning adequate enough to win a Super Bowl - over guys that don't even get you to the dance.

[beasy2487]

With all the injuries in the secondary id say even being in a position to play the Patriots in that game was a success.

And considering all the turnover and injuries on that side of the ball we've had to deal with in Pees tenure, id contend that consistently ranking as a well above average defense while having almost no consistency in personnel is a solid achievement.

I don't always agree with Pees philosophy and I don't think he's one of the best coordinators in the league. But he's the best available to us and id prefer the consistency he's brought to the team over the carousel we've had on the other side of the ball.

While you can argue that maybe the conservative approach against the patriots led to the loss - you can also argue that with a lesser coordinator we never even make it to that game.

I didn't think we had a Super Bowl caliber roster heading into the season at full health. Yet we ended up nearly in the Super Bowl with arguably the worst secondary in football. That deserves some credit. With a healthy Jimmy Smith and Ladarius Webb we win that game with that philosophy.

I'd argue that if you take away the trick play, now illegal eligibility, and missed tackles we do win that game. The plays were there to be made to keep us on top. We didn't execute. Maybe being more aggressive ices the game - or maybe it exposes us and we get burned worse. We don't know.

But we do know that if just a couple plays turned out differently we would've won that game even with the conservative play calling - so I can't blame that. It's all about doing enough to win. The coaching was just adequate enough to win it, player execution wasn't.

And I'll take the guy that's just adequate enough to beat the eventual Super Bowl champions - meaning adequate enough to win a Super Bowl - over guys that don't even get you to the dance.

 

Yea I think from a scheme perspective Pees called the game exactly as he had to and did a great job. My only knock on him for the Pats game is that he left Ngata in for the lion's share of the snaps in the 2nd half after the Pats abandoned the run. With the way our secondary was playing, our only hope was interior pressure on Brady. For that reason I would've had Jernigan out there much more. Otherwise though, totally happy with Pees and look forward to the product we put on this field this coming season.

[gabefergy]

Ha, no....like never does he send the house on 3rd and long. In fact, that's one of the very points of contention that some have with his play calling...too conservative in that very situation.

Talk about making something up to complain about, sheesh!

Yeah, Pees loves the 4 man rush. Can't ssy I blame him when you have guys like Doom and Suggs.

[BmoreBird22]

Giving up 2 14 pt leads isn't success though and while there were things that snowballed, it was still what is generally called a prevent defense (even though some are in denial about that) in a do or die situation where we'd already given up one 14 pt lead. Not exactly a smart move.

Do you know what the prevent defense is? I can guarantee you he didn't play it and if you think he did, I encourage you to go back and watch the game.