Dean Pees NFL.com Coordinator Ranking

[Tenacious Faulker]

I wasn't trying to target you or anything. I honestly just remembered different things that had been said in discussions before.

 

Here's the thing: He's not playing chess. In chess, you position yourself strategically to then make a checkmate - corner your opponent. My issue with Pees, and why I equate him with Cam Cameron, is because he will be calling a good game. Sometimes, a great game. Then, late in the game, it is like he panics and switches to not just conservative, but ultra conservative mode. The bulk of our late game defensive melt downs have occurred because of that tendency. Cam used to do the exact same thing late in games. And it always cost us.

 

I will tell you this on Pees. The Bills lost a post season game by giving up a 32 pts lead. That is the biggest lead EVER lost in post season in NFL history. Pees defense very nearly came in #2 when they held a 27 pt lead and watched it wither away. If you think that Pees, up in the booth, had much to do with that goal line stand, better go watch the videos. It was Lewis & Reed coaching up that defense. Clearly evident in every single video of that goal line stand.

I pretty much disagree with all of this - from your assement as to how the defense is run all the way down to your picture depicting Ozzie Newson as a Red Kangroo.  

 

Firstly, if you quoted my post calling it crapola, you called me out.  Don't backpedal and hide from me now.  

 

Secondly, you don't have to agree with the chess vs checkers anology.  I understand one has to know how to play chess in order to understand that comparison.  All you have know is that Pees is managing his resources extremely well given the circumstances compared to Rex.

 

Thirdly, Pees calls the shots even in the booth -- especially in the booth.  Players get his signal and then the defense calls timeout, resets the line or even scraps the coordinator's call IF they see something out of the ordinary.  Happens all the time on good teams with experienced players.  

 

Fourthly, comparing the Ravens to some ancient Bills playoff team is not a way to build an arguemnt.  The game has evolved into a passing offense oriented game and the Ravens (not Pees) made that call.  Pees is only doing what they hired him to do.  

[The Raven]

can't recall saying last season in my post

 

Wasn't really addressing you, but still, he's not the weakest link period, in my not so humble opinion.

[BmoreBird22]

Wasn't really addressing you, but still, he's not the weakest link period, in my not so humble opinion.

And even if he was, that's a pretty damn strong "weak link"

[stampedehero]

I was going to post this before and then fell back. For the DC rankings, he was 7 and Rod Marinelli was 1st. Don't put too much stock in it. I'm not a fan of Bucky Brooks by the way.

With a nick name llike Bucky you can get the childrens menu. lol

[stampedehero]

Everybody talks about how well Pees has done with a banged up secondary but really none of this credit should go to Austin or Spagnola. This defense is not clutch enough imo and has given up too many leads in the past and almost blew the SB win except for some horrendous playcalling by SF. Pees is very average and is ranked way too high. Throw stats out the window. A previus poster showed Mattison's D to be ranked 3rd and 10th respectively but yet nobody sits there and says he ran great defenses. Yes Pees doesn't run as many 3 man passrushes lol but the defense is way more soft compared to Ryan's,Lewis's or Pagano's defenses. Just use the eyeball test. Do you yall think we're feared at all. We used to be.

When you compare him to the old Pagano D he would always lose.  Of course Ray was the second coach and the entire cheerleading squad in one package. He and Ed were the spine in our great Defenses. For Pagano, he had that advantage.

[K-Dog]

Sending every one but the hot dog vendor on every down doesn't make a great DC.

[ravensdfan]

I pretty much disagree with all of this - from your assement as to how the defense is run all the way down to your picture depicting Ozzie Newson as a Red Kangroo.  

 

Firstly, if you quoted my post calling it crapola, you called me out.  Don't backpedal and hide from me now.  

 

Secondly, you don't have to agree with the chess vs checkers anology.  I understand one has to know how to play chess in order to understand that comparison.  All you have know is that Pees is managing his resources extremely well given the circumstances compared to Rex.

 

Thirdly, Pees calls the shots even in the booth -- especially in the booth.  Players get his signal and then the defense calls timeout, resets the line or even scraps the coordinator's call IF they see something out of the ordinary.  Happens all the time on good teams with experienced players.  

 

Fourthly, comparing the Ravens to some ancient Bills playoff team is not a way to build an arguemnt.  The game has evolved into a passing offense oriented game and the Ravens (not Pees) made that call.  Pees is only doing what they hired him to do.  

First: Did not quote your post. I mentioned things people had said in other threads on Pees. Things I remembered being said. Didn't know who said it.

Second: I don't have to agree, I do know how to play chess, and the point is to corner your opponent into a checkmate. Period. Perhaps you'd better read up on it. I know you were referring more to subtle moves etc that are made in chess but going conservative at the end will cost you nine times out of ten in chess.

Thirdly: Not saying he doesn't make calls from the booth. Was talking about one specific play in one game where there is a lot of video evidence to say otherwise. It is my opinion that he might do better down on the field where he has a better handle on what the players see with Reed & Lewis gone, but that is strictly my opinion.

Fourth: I did not compare the teams at all. Ever. I compared giving up the 2nd most sizable post season lead in the entire history of the NFL.

Fifth: Really? You want to pick on the kangaroo? You truly think I'm saying Ozzie is a kangaroo? Get a grip.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

First: Did not quote your post. I mentioned things people had said in other threads on Pees. Things I remembered being said. Didn't know who said it.

Second: I don't have to agree, I do know how to play chess, and the point is to corner your opponent into a checkmate. Period. Perhaps you'd better read up on it. I know you were referring more to subtle moves etc that are made in chess but going conservative at the end will cost you nine times out of ten in chess.

Thirdly: Not saying he doesn't make calls from the booth. Was talking about one specific play in one game where there is a lot of video evidence to say otherwise. It is my opinion that he might do better down on the field where he has a better handle on what the players see with Reed & Lewis gone, but that is strictly my opinion.

Fourth: I did not compare the teams at all. Ever. I compared giving up the 2nd most sizable post season lead in the entire history of the NFL.

Fifth: Really? You want to pick on the kangaroo? You truly think I'm saying Ozzie is a kangaroo? Get a grip.

 

I,personally,like the kangaroo pic.

[Tenacious Faulker]

First: Did not quote your post. I mentioned things people had said in other threads on Pees. Things I remembered being said. Didn't know who said it.

Second: I don't have to agree, I do know how to play chess, and the point is to corner your opponent into a checkmate. Period. Perhaps you'd better read up on it. I know you were referring more to subtle moves etc that are made in chess but going conservative at the end will cost you nine times out of ten in chess.

Thirdly: Not saying he doesn't make calls from the booth. Was talking about one specific play in one game where there is a lot of video evidence to say otherwise. It is my opinion that he might do better down on the field where he has a better handle on what the players see with Reed & Lewis gone, but that is strictly my opinion.

Fourth: I did not compare the teams at all. Ever. I compared giving up the 2nd most sizable post season lead in the entire history of the NFL.

Fifth: Really? You want to pick on the kangaroo? You truly think I'm saying Ozzie is a kangaroo? Get a grip.

Checkmate

[arnie_uk]

Wasn't really addressing you, but still, he's not the weakest link period, in my not so humble opinion.

i certainly think he is. I think we strengthen corner back quite well, obviously providing we don't get injuries. I think will hill with a season under his belt and Lewis/Elam/brooks is a satisfactory rotation beside him.

We have great young talent everywhere, and if they develop and play like many think,it's hard to point to a real weakness on the field, at this time, except maybe tight end. So yea, I think he is out weakest link going into next season.

[BmoreBird22]

Thirdly: Not saying he doesn't make calls from the booth. Was talking about one specific play in one game where there is a lot of video evidence to say otherwise. It is my opinion that he might do better down on the field where he has a better handle on what the players see with Reed & Lewis gone, but that is strictly my opinion.

If the one play you're referring to is the fourth down in the Super Bowl, then you're wrong, again. That's the exact same play that the Patriots had used against the Giants when their perfect season was lost. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000135592/Ravens-stop-49ers-on-fourth-down-goal-line-stand

 

In case you don't remember the play (you clearly do not), here is a video and you don't see any shifts or calls being made to call a new play, but hey, Pees is never aggressive.

[Tenacious Faulker]

i certainly think he is. I think we strengthen corner back quite well, obviously providing we don't get injuries. I think will hill with a season under his belt and Lewis/Elam/brooks is a satisfactory rotation beside him.

We have great young talent everywhere, and if they develop and play like many think,it's hard to point to a real weakness on the field, at this time, except maybe tight end. So yea, I think he is out weakest link going into next season.

I just can't see Pees as the problem unless he he somehow was responsible for all the injuries that occurred.  What they gave him as replacements and what he did with it is vdery commendable.  Could the other DC's have done as much without their 5 and 6 Pro Bowlers each season?  Dubious on that.  

 

If you think he's the "weakest link, I still thank that's a pretty strong link for any club.  Again, if you had a viable name since 2013 that became available who would you have replaced him with?  Obviously Harbs and Ozzie didn;t think there were any better, so again, Pees is doing the job he was brought in to do.  If not they'd have fired him just like Cam.  But he's still here.

[RaineV1]

On the issue of who could replace Pees, there's Ted Monachino. He's been a great linebacker's coach for the Ravens for the last five years and he has plenty of experience coaching defensive lineman as well. Not saying that I think he would be flat out better than Pees right away, but he could prove to be a good DC for the Ravens.

[ravensdfan]

I,personally,like the kangaroo pic.

It was done right before the draft but probably time for a new one really.

Checkmate

lol Hardly. Thanks for demonstrating you don't understand the term.

Edited June 28, 2015 by ravensdfan

[Passepartout]

Pees deserves more than the 12th ranking. As hope he can go higher in 2015!

[harfordravenfan]

Lack of clutch stops isn't really something that should immediately be equated to the DC.

Playcalling is part of how well a defense will perform, but the players still have to execute the play. Missed tackles, penalties, blown assignments etc are all on the players.

It's also important to consider that yhe offense will almost always have the advantage in these situations when trailing at the end of the game. They run hurry up which is hard on the defense and also play with 4 downs which isn't given much considertion.

Finally, for the small number of blown leads that are remembered, there are for more dominant performances that are not.

Should be noted that it seems the ravens want balance and unless you want a crappy offense, you probably won't see the dominate defenses us ravens fans saw in the past. I miss those old defenses we had that struck fear into other teams but with the changing nfl, I'm happy Witham solid young team on both sides of the ball

[gabefergy]

Should be noted that it seems the ravens want balance and unless you want a crappy offense, you probably won't see the dominate defenses us ravens fans saw in the past. I miss those old defenses we had that struck fear into other teams but with the changing nfl, I'm happy Witham solid young team on both sides of the ball

It's true. When paying your QB 20M a year plus some other highly paid players on offense, it's hard to have a truly dominany defense.

It says a lot about the Ravens to have a top defense and have a highly paid QB.

Other defenses that would be considered among the best like Buffalo, Seattle, St. Louis, Houston have rookie contract players or backups at QB.

[Cillmatic]

We can have the #1 ranked defense and fans would still complain.

[jimmypowder]

Doesn't change my mind that hes the weakest link on this squad. Moreso than any position imo

I have criticized Pees quite a bit too but for us to get to the divisional playoffs and barely lose to the eventual Super Bowl winners gave me a bit of pause about my thinking .

 

Virtually nothing at corner or safety and yet we almost won .Of course it was hard to stop Brady but teams with a much better secondary had that problem too.

 

I will give Pees some kudos for last season's results. 

[K-Dog]

We can have the #1 ranked defense and fans would still complain.

yup

[Moderator 3]

We can have the #1 ranked defense and SOME fans would still complain.

Fixed it for you.

[edreed2o]

Sending every one but the hot dog vendor on every down doesn't make a great DC.

God..especially on third and long. Screamng at my TV "Why! Why! Why!" because Pees is sending the house. Then boom, 5 yard pass turns into a 20 yard gain. Pee's does it every tme guaranteed.

[edreed2o]

I have criticized Pees quite a bit too but for us to get to the divisional playoffs and barely lose to the eventual Super Bowl winners gave me a bit of pause about my thinking .

Virtually nothing at corner or safety and yet we almost won .Of course it was hard to stop Brady but teams with a much better secondary had that problem too.

I will give Pees some kudos for last season's results.

I just didn't agree with pees playcallng with the corners giving 10 yard cushions on every play. It would be 3rd and 2 with a 10 yard cushion. Tom Brady is notorious for his short,little passes and Pees never changed. I know our secondary was torn but still, those 3rd and shorts killed us every time because of how backed our DB's played. Edited June 28, 2015 by edreed2o

[redrum52]

God..especially on third and long. Screamng at my TV "Why! Why! Why!" because Pees is sending the house. Then boom, 5 yard pass turns into a 20 yard gain. Pee's does it every tme guaranteed.

..sarcasm?

[The Mom Gene]

I just didn't agree with pees playcallng with the corners giving 10 yard cushions on every play. It would be 3rd and 2 with a 10 yard cushion. Tom Brady is notorious for his short,little passes and Pees never changed. I know our secondary was torn but still, those 3rd and shorts killed us every time because of how backed our DB's played.

And if you kept them short, he'd throw a deep back shoulder fade and torch them anyway.  We couldn't have defended either last season.

[K-Dog]

God..especially on third and long. Screamng at my TV "Why! Why! Why!" because Pees is sending the house. Then boom, 5 yard pass turns into a 20 yard gain. Pee's does it every tme guaranteed.

what?

really?

 

I gotta get my TV fixed.  I am missing a lot of the game then...

[redrum52]

It's not even football season yet and people are posting here drunk. I'm blaming the heat.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just looking at the comments here - you see some people complaining that he's way too conservative and never brings pressure.

Then complaining that he brings pressure way too often on 3rd and short. He's too aggressive.

He should've done more to account for and mask our deficiency in the secondary. Then he shouldn't have had our weak corners playing off in coverage because if they played right up on the line they wouldn't have been burned or anything (Melvin giving up the TD to Lafell).

He gets criticized for everything and it's opposite. I'm not his biggest supporter - far from it. But I recognize that's he's done a very good job with what he's been given

He's overcome injuries to key personnel for long stretches each season he's been here yet still kept us competing for championships.

He helped us win a Super Bowl. Flaccos post season gets all the acclaim, and rightfully so, but I'd argue the improvement of the defense was the 2nd largest contributing factor to that postseason run.

We're regularly among the league leaders in points allowed and red zone defense - two of the three stats that actually matter. Turnovers is the one area that his defenses haven't been doing well in, but we've dropped a ton of easy interceptions... And besides the DC can't make his players turn and look for the ball or catch it.

And I still haven't seen anyone suggest a DC that has been available to us over the past few years that would be a better fit than Pees. Teryl Austin is the one legitimate candidate id consider but you also run the risk of losing assistants and position coaches; and going with the young hot name is risky because if he does a great job as DC for a year or two with the Ravens he immediately becomes a top candidate for HC gigs.

So would it really have been the right decision to fire Pees to promote Austin... Have him for a year or 2 tops where he only stays if he's worse than Pees and best case scenerio if he was better than Pees he'd be gone to go be a head coach.... So were looking for another replacement where then we would be praying to find someone as good as Pees.

We've got among the most effective DC's. You don't have to agree with his philosophy, but you can't disagree with the results. And we've got the consistency of knowing he won't be leaving for a HC job.

Just be careful what you wish for those that want him gone. The alternative is the carousel we've had on offense.

[Cillmatic]

I just didn't agree with pees playcallng with the corners giving 10 yard cushions on every play. It would be 3rd and 2 with a 10 yard cushion. Tom Brady is notorious for his short,little passes and Pees never changed. I know our secondary was torn but still, those 3rd and shorts killed us every time because of how backed our DB's played.

he did it because we know that Webb and Co. Would get. Blown up playing press. There's a reason 5'10 weak knees Webb plays off, he gets beat. It's either let guys play off or make them play close and get beat everytime. You pick.

[arnie_uk]

I just can't see Pees as the problem unless he he somehow was responsible for all the injuries that occurred. What they gave him as replacements and what he did with it is vdery commendable. Could the other DC's have done as much without their 5 and 6 Pro Bowlers each season? Dubious on that.

If you think he's the "weakest link, I still thank that's a pretty strong link for any club. Again, if you had a viable name since 2013 that became available who would you have replaced him with? Obviously Harbs and Ozzie didn;t think there were any better, so again, Pees is doing the job he was brought in to do. If not they'd have fired him just like Cam. But he's still here.

again, I'm talking about gong forward.