[News] Late For Work 6/23: The Joe Flacco Top-10 Debate Is Alive Again

[ravenpic]

Joe is a solid NFL QB. No team goes very far in post season without one. Show me a team that likes facing the Ravens?? and that goes double in the playoffs. Definitely top 10 when it comes to being a solid NFL QB.

[Mystigo_Dragon]

This is pretty much my point, but I was recapping the last 5 years. 5 years far outweighs one play. Remember the 2011 AFC Championship game? NE was up 3, late in the 4th qtr, and Brady "took a deep shot" to seal the win, and Jimmy Smith picked it to keep our season alive. Is Brady an undisciplined qb?

 

 

You can blame Joe all you want, but it makes no sense to define him by 1 play. Otherwise, everyone would be a reckless, undisciplined qb, because you can cherry pick bad decisions from everyone. There is a huge difference between calling it a reckless play and calling Joe an undisciplined qb. The former is debatable; the latter is just ridiculous.

 

 

Let's say that Flacco made the worst, dumbest throw in NFL history. Are you honestly saying that 1 play negates all the great things he's done and takes him out of the top 10?

No, because that's not what happened. Smith never scored in that game, and the play that you're referring to was the 3rd qtr int, not the final one. 

 

Winning is what perennial winners do, and Flacco has won more games since he's been in the league than anyone, including Brady and Manning. He also has more playoff records than both of them combined, and he's done it with much less talent to throw to. Joe doesn't have all the accomplishments they do, but they don't have all the accomplishments Joe has, either. All of them are perennial winners. Sami was just making the same point that I was making. 1 play doesn't exclude anyone from the "perennial winner" list. Otherwise, that list would be blank.

 

Flacco has an uncanny ability to be aggressive without turning it over. It didn't work out once, but is has been a major factor in the Ravens' success. Nothing works out every time, no matter what you do.

 

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

 

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

[Mystigo_Dragon]

 

The last INT,... for the very reason you quoted because you know this, you DON'T throw the ball -- period!

Who can you get that's better?

 

 

[Mystigo_Dragon]

Brady was facing a beat down secondary you.. Nevermind im not gonna go there and get another warning. Tim tebow could of torched our secondary. Flacco facing a top five secondary with revis, browner, arrington and butler. We had a practice squad rashaan melvin, safeties converted into corners and a lardarius webb still dealing with injuries, who continuously got picked on by every QB we faced! Please...just stop..

 

 

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

 

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

[Mystigo_Dragon]

 A player can go 24 touchdowns and 4 picks in the playoffs versus good defenses and that last pick wipes away the previous 24 touchdowns. You obviously werent a fan of the ravens before flacco came along. You have a short memory.

 

 

 

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

 

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

[January J]

had Torrey caught that ball and we win the game would ppl still have looked back at that play and said that joe was "undisciplined" ? Highly doubt it- they would be saying things like he's not afraid to be aggressive, and that he went for the throat. I may be in the minority - but I firmly believe that it was a GOOD throw. Torrey clearly slowed up, and took his eyes off the ball anticipating getting hit. That's why he squared up the way he did. It's fair to question the call- but I don't think it's fair to blame joe or call him undisciplined. Esp when we don't know if it was kubiak who made that call or what.

[RavensBaltimore]

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

 

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

A bad decision in the postseason is emblematic of something Flacco DOESN'T do, seeing as how he's been so great at not turning it over in the playoffs, despite that 1 play.

 

 

When people argue against him being in the top 10, they bring up fantasy stats every time, not his decision making. Like I said before, coaches and analysts who watch film NEVER say Joe is undisciplined or a bad decision maker, and most of his critics don't even say that. They simply criticize him for not putting up big numbers, like the Browns writer in this article did.

[gekaap]

People swoon over QBs like bad poker players swoon over all the wrong hands. In poker, a player must learn to separate his emotional memories from effecting his perception of his odds at winning a hand. It's easy to remember the time you took a big gamble with A/10 and scored a mega pot when you rivered a flush. The excitement, the adrenaline, the pats on the back for making a gutsy all-in pre-flop call. Many players spend the rest of their lives remembering those emotions, and when they see A/10 in the future they evaluate it based on the emotions of the one or two times it turned out great. The memories of all the times that hand failed don't persist, because those instances didn't carry the as strong of emotions. Their emotions are deciding the quality they perceive.

Quarterbacks, and especially QBs like Flacco, are much the same. Alot of people have artificially inflated ideas in their head because they can't separate their emotions from their evaluation of quality. They remember the deep passes that were made, because that's exciting. They forget all the times Flacco stupidly made horrible decisions to throw a deep ball that ended up incomplete, because those things don't invoke as strong of an emotional response.

Edited June 24, 2015 by gekaap

[Mystigo_Dragon]

A bad decision in the postseason is emblematic of something Flacco DOESN'T do, seeing as how he's been so great at not turning it over in the playoffs, despite that 1 play.

 

 

When people argue against him being in the top 10, they bring up fantasy stats every time, not his decision making. Like I said before, coaches and analysts who watch film NEVER say Joe is undisciplined or a bad decision maker, and most of his critics don't even say that. They simply criticize him for not putting up big numbers, like the Browns writer in this artic

 

Re-read my last post to you and the others!

That's my position! I'd cut and paste it (again) but you have it already!

[Tru11]

A bad decision in the postseason is emblematic of something Flacco DOESN'T do, seeing as how he's been so great at not turning it over in the playoffs, despite that 1 play.

 

 

When people argue against him being in the top 10, they bring up fantasy stats every time, not his decision making. Like I said before, coaches and analysts who watch film NEVER say Joe is undisciplined or a bad decision maker, and most of his critics don't even say that. They simply criticize him for not putting up big numbers, like the Browns writer in this article did.

 

im pretty sure people called him a bad decision maker before.

especially earlier in his career.

 

the way he played these last 3 play offs aint how he played the earlier years and he hasent been lights out every time in the regular season either.

 

you wont find 1 person who will put on the 29-9-2013 game tape of the bills match up, who is going to argue his decision making was on point that game lol.

 

he has grown up and become a very good QB but lets not act he was like this from day 1...

[RavensBaltimore]

im pretty sure people called him a bad decision maker before.

especially earlier in his career.

 

the way he played these last 3 play offs aint how he played the earlier years and he hasent been lights out every time in the regular season either.

 

you wont find 1 person who will put on the 29-9-2013 game tape of the bills match up, who is going to argue his decision making was on point that game lol.

 

he has grown up and become a very good QB but lets not act he was like this from day 1...

Show me a qb who doesn't make bad decisions when he has no time to throw and nobody to throw to. That's how the entire 2013 season was, and in the game you were referring to, we were down to 2 WRs, so we couldn't even run a spread offense in our 2 minute drill. Watch tape of Brady early last season, before Gronk got healthy, and you will see all kinds of bad decisions.

 

Joe had no chance in 2013, but in his other 6 years, he's never thrown more than 12 ints, and he has 24 tds and 4 ints in the postseason in the last 5 years. All qb's have growing pains when they come into the league, and all qb's can be forced into bad decisions from time to time, and Joe is no different. However, overall, especially in big moments, decision making is a strength for Joe Flacco, not a weakness. 

[RavensBaltimore]

Re-read my last post to you and the others!

That's my position! I'd cut and paste it (again) but you have it already!

I already read it, and my last post was a direct response to it.

 

Explain how a postseason interception is "emblematic" of a guy who has been historically great at NOT throwing postseason INTs. It seems it would be the opposite to me.

 

Show me a coach or analyst who studies film that says Joe is a bad decision maker, besides the injury depleted 2013 year.

[Mystigo_Dragon]

I already read it, and my last post was a direct response to it.

 

Explain how a postseason interception is "emblematic" of a guy who has been historically great at NOT throwing postseason INTs. It seems it would be the opposite to me.

 

Show me a coach or analyst who studies film that says Joe is a bad decision maker, besides the injury depleted 2013 year.

 

Again,... my statement was emblematic of the play that keeps serious consideration of Joe as a Top 10 from being made! I could name others but I don't need to recap an entire guy's career! It Still holds true for me!

[gtalk12]

They can say whatever they want to say but in the playoffs nobody wants to face Joe Flacco because he has shown over the last couple of years to be an absolute and total nightmare. Whether he has a top 10 defense or not HE and our offense show up. Take that for what it is, of all the QB's which ones elevate their game in the playoffs?

 

Go ahead, take your stats and regular season glory. Throughout sports an athlete who elevates their game when it counts wins in MY eyes.

[Joey Flac]

Not only Cam and Matt, but Luck too....  Really?????  None of those guys have half the history that Joe had...

 

Luck can be thrown in there cause he is a scary QB to face, he's a more athletic Peyton Manning and isn't a playoff bust like Cam or Ryan. 

 

Especially after last season, we knocked off Ben and should of walked all over the Pats had we had a corner off IR. 

 

Joe carried us and we got into the playoffs with his arm on two plays to Torrey Smith. Bomb then the dagger.