[News] Late For Work 6/23: The Joe Flacco Top-10 Debate Is Alive Again

[IGwheaties_man]

Simply put, these "pundits" cannot rate Flacco under QBs that haven't won Jack Squat, or never come close to winning Jack Squat. And as far as that Cleveland reporter goes, think of how ecstatic Cleveland would've been to have gotten Flacco in 2008. Maybe they would've finally gotten a QB draft decision right. But then I think about the list of QBs they've gone through and to have a more than competent QB like Jeff Garcia come in there and do so poorly to where they drop him after week 10 of that season but then he goes to Philly and Tampa Bay and takes those teams to the playoffs truly speaks to the ineptitude of the Cleveland Browns. They would've found a way to screw that pick up, because they always do. Let's bring in account their lack of an O-line for so many years, lack of receivers (because the one good receiver they have can't figure out how not to stay suspended) and lack of a running game. Basically a complete lack of offense. You could put Tom Brady or Peyton on the Browns and they wouldn't be able to do anything with them. So they suffer, minus the game we lost to them last year, we always sweep them. They just can't beat him. Put Flacco on the Falcons squad with Julio Jones and Roddy White and Gonzalez in his final years, they win a superbowl. Put him here all those insufferable years we had Boller, think of how many superbowls we'd have with that defense we had. And I don't need to dispute how many superbowls we would've had throughout these years. All you need to know is his first season, granted he was a rookie and there was a limit on what he was allowed to do, we're in the AFC championship game. They don't wanna give him his due accolades because they think all his game is comprised of is hail mary passes and defensive pass interference calls. And then they say he could've solidified his status as elite in the divisional round game vs. the Pats but that interception killed it when his receiver gave up on the ball and besides the fact that every postseason game we;ve had vs. New England Flacco has outplayed Brady, lets exclude the fact that HE WAS CARRYING US THAT ENTIRE GAME! 4 TD passes on a defense that had Vince Wilfork, Brandon Browner, Darelle Revis and Devin McCourty? Nobody else did that this entire year. And don't get me started on how we're the team to beat in the playoffs. Even going back to when McNair was still our QB, granted it was a different team, every team we've lost to in the playoffs has appeared in the Superbowl. What does that tell you?

Edited June 24, 2015 by IGwheaties_man

[Mystigo_Dragon]

You have a valid point but who actually meets your criteria:

 

First and foremost, if you make it to the playoffs, somewhere along the way your qb won a game you were supposed to lose and won some games that you were supposed to win. So I don't know what that is even brought up. Especially since the Ravens were given no chance to go into Pittsburgh and beat the Steelers yet offensively and defensively the killed them. 

 

I don't know if you are basing your list off of last season or a qbs career but countless times we have seen Flacco put his team in position to win games.  The win in Denver is probably the most famous simply because no one thought he had the time to forge a comeback but he did it.  But there were diffidently others. The Housh TD in the last minute of the Pittsburgh game sticks out in my mind.  And some of the other top qbs are known to choke on an annual basis. Romo is probably the most famous for choking during the regular season.  But guys like Ryan and Manning seem to do it ever year in the playoffs.  

But if we are going off of last season alone there are a lot of examples of other qbs falling apart when the pressure was on.  Manning completely fell apart at the end of the season.  Luck looked terrible against the Patriots, and Rodgers had the Seahawks beat, and failed to hold that lead.  And if we are going to call out Flacco for his questionable throw you have to call out Wilson for his pass right to that corner.  At least if Smith had a chance of catching that ball.  There was no way Seattle was going to win with that pass.  

 

 

We could go back and analyze each game and find some we won but should have lost and vice versa,... but, once you make the playoffs, your entire team must out-play the other team!

In the Pats' game, Joe Flacco played well enough to win, but Brady feasted on our decidedly inept Secondary by a mixture of nebulous plays and by picking us apart!

Brady was the better man because he did what he needed to in order to win, while Joe, rather than exploiting our strength in the run and short games... being Joe,... he took a shot ... and we went home!  

[sami]

Fusuymada, I cut down much of your comment to the part that I take a bit of issue with! Sorry! I needed to make a point and I wasn't at issue with you entire comment!

"We get ahead so we run, when the game is close we run..."

In my world Joe Flacco is not inside the #10 mark ,... read closely....  simply because he doesn't win the games he's supposed to!

The Fantasy Footballers, [might be you], in MHO are the people who root for 4,000 yard games from QBs.

While the Football Purists [definitely me] root for games won that should be won and games won that normally wouldn't by QBs!

The Divisional Championship is a case in point: Joe Flacco beats Tom Brady in Brady's house for the second time in a playoff setting by driving the Ravens down the field and managing the clock expertly and thrusting the ball over the goal line with a QB Sneak or hand-off to Justin Forsett/the Juice,..... This scenario guarantees Joe's a Top 10 QB this year!

But, Joe Flacco drives the Ravens down to the 34 yard line of the Patriots, then, quote takes a shot,... throws an interception into the end-zone ending the Ravens' playoff run,...  That's not what perennial winners do!

This the way the undisciplined Joe Flacco continues to show that he doesn't have the PATIENCE to play his position to the point of stealing games the CW suggests he shouldn't win, like a Phillip Rivers playing us any and every time he does!  

That's not what perennial winners do? Like Manning did in the Mile High Miracle? Or Brady did the last couple times we beat them? I admit that last pass against the Patriots last year was a dumb play not only the way he executed it but the call itself but Flacco has proven time and time again he IS a perennial winner.

[Mystigo_Dragon]

So Flacco throws 24 tds and 4ints in the postseason since 2010, and you pick out one of those 4 picks and say he's undisciplined? Really? No football "purist" would do that. There isn't a single coach or film study analyst who thinks Flacco is "undisciplined." He has been historically great at NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER in the postseason and winning in the postseason, which would be impossible if he wasn't disciplined. Jay Cutler isn't disciplined. Look at all the turnovers he gives away.

 

If that one play mean Flacco isn't a "perennial winner", then Brady and Manning aren't perennial winners either, because they have both thrown season ending picks, and neither of them have won as many games as Flacco since he's been in the league. Flacco has 4 consecutive postseasons with a TD/INT ratio of at least 3/1 which is more than the entire careers of Brady and Manning COMBINED. He recently snapped a record of consecutive postseason passes without an INT. But that one play, in a game where he was great overall, makes him undisciplined, and not a perennial winner? That's just laughable.

 

 

I'm speaking of one game where he went away from the smart play and took a shot and you're recapping a year! Apples & oranges, bud!

So, let me do a recap of the year! In a Playoff game that, thanks to the K.C. Chiefs, not Joe's expertise, we were lucky to be in, and Joe decided to take a shot and gambled the whole playoff season when he threw an ill-advised, high risk pass in a situation where the future of the whole team,... a group of men who will never, ever play again as a unit,... and who had a shot of going to the Super Bowl riding on it,... and got picked!

Blame Torrey for not fighting, Blame Lee Evans for cursing the End-Zone, but blame Joe for making a reckless decision? Oh No-o-o-o-o!

[Mystigo_Dragon]

That's not what perennial winners do? Like Manning did in the Mile High Miracle? Or Brady did the last couple times we beat them? I admit that last pass against the Patriots last year was a dumb play not only the way he executed it but the call itself but Flacco has proven time and time again he IS a perennial winner.

 

 

Sami, these guys are in their final years of illustrious careers as,... //cough//... perennial winners, one who has the SB jewelry to boast it and another who does not but has a ton of wins, MVP awards and records!

Joe has neither!       Maybe someday,... but, not today!

Edited June 23, 2015 by Mystigo_Dragon

[edreed2o]

The last INT,... for the very reason you quoted because you know this, you DON'T throw the ball -- period!

When you are facing one of the best secondaries in the league, in the playoffs, with time tickng down, for potentially the win, and you have an open man down field, you take that shot --period! Thay safety made a good bait. Happens to manning, brady and all the other "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL. Torrey, as usual, gave up on the play. I guarantee thats part of the reason Joe and Torrey didnt have chemistry.

[Mystigo_Dragon]

   So,... all you good folks hitting red minuses on my posts detailing my opinion why Joe isn't in the Top 10 conversation,... I don't mind,... but what's your explanations? 

[Mystigo_Dragon]

When you are facing one of the best secondaries in the league, in the playoffs, with time tickng down, for potentially the win, and you have an open man down field, you take that shot --period! Thay safety made a good bait. Happens to manning, brady and all the other "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL. Torrey, as usual, gave up on the play. I guarantee thats part of the reason Joe and Torrey didnt have chemistry.

 

 

You do not!

When you have one of the top Secondaries down the field and you have scorched them on a play already, but you are picking up 1st Downs and methodically moving the ball with a shorter passing game and runs, NO you do not take the shot!

Didn't you hear the Corner say that they [the Pats] talked about that play after Smith scored on it earlier and how to cover it over and under w/o tipping the coverage,.. and Joe threw right into it?

Let me refresh you: "The revamped [Patriots'] defense also held up its end, twice picking off Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco, who hadn't turned the ball over in his previous five postseason outings." Ya don't throw that all-or-nothing ball! If anything, you throw a safe ball and nobody can convince me that it was a good call!

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Who would you rather have at QB during the post season besides our Flacco?

[edreed2o]

You do not!

When you have one of the top Secondaries down the field and you have scorched them on a play already, but you are picking up 1st Downs and methodically moving the ball with a shorter passing game and runs, NO you do not take the shot!

Didn't you hear the Corner say that they [the Pats] talked about that play after Smith scored on it earlier and how to cover it over and under w/o tipping the coverage,.. and Joe threw right into it?

Let me refresh you: "The revamped [Patriots'] defense also held up its end, twice picking off Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco, who hadn't turned the ball over in his previous five postseason outings." Ya don't throw that all-or-nothing ball! If anything, you throw a safe ball and nobody can convince me that it was a good call!

 A player can go 24 touchdowns and 4 picks in the playoffs versus good defenses and that last pick wipes away the previous 24 touchdowns. You obviously werent a fan of the ravens before flacco came along. You have a short memory.

[edreed2o]

We could go back and analyze each game and find some we won but should have lost and vice versa,... but, once you make the playoffs, your entire team must out-play the other team!

In the Pats' game, Joe Flacco played well enough to win, but Brady feasted on our decidedly inept Secondary by a mixture of nebulous plays and by picking us apart!

Brady was the better man because he did what he needed to in order to win, while Joe, rather than exploiting our strength in the run and short games... being Joe,... he took a shot ... and we went home!  

Brady was facing a beat down secondary you.. Nevermind im not gonna go there and get another warning. Tim tebow could of torched our secondary. Flacco facing a top five secondary with revis, browner, arrington and butler. We had a practice squad rashaan melvin, safeties converted into corners and a lardarius webb still dealing with injuries, who continuously got picked on by every QB we faced! Please...just stop..

[Fullblack_RAVEN]

For crying out loud...

 

Matthew freaking stafford>flacco? Really? Unbelievable. Matthew Stafford isn't that good. I'm sorry. All you have to do is watch him 3-4 times. He's a side arm thrower whom misses on a bunch of easy throws due to overthrowing his targets. He throws to all of his wr's like they are calvin johnson. Oh, did i forget to mention that he actually has calvin johnson, a guy that makes up for his inaccuate throws? Jeez...

 

It's funny how dan discredits flacco because he played with an elite defense most of the time (then again, the defense was average when the ravens won the superbowl but ofc he wouldn't go into that). What about the FACT that flacco has never played with a pro bowl/gamebreaking wr in his prime? Having a guy like that makes it much easier on qb's to succeed. Almost every top qb has one. Flacco doesn't yet still performs. The only pro bowlers flacco has connected w/ came to the ravens past their primes (boldin/steve smith for example)

 

Give flacco julio jones, calvin johnson or dez and he throws for 4500 yards just like those other qb's have. I'm very confident in saying that. Hopefully perriman can become an elite wr one day but we'll see. It's just ridiculous how these analysts can spew off and not account for the fact that flacco hasn't been given the offensive firepower those guys have been given. 

[cec327]

Why bother with silly ratings. I'll take Flacco anytime and laugh all the way to the bank.

[DB1974]

This debate about our QB is old and tired Joe Flacco has zero to prove we are set at QB with one of thebest in the NFL to continue year after year with this the national media needs to give it a rest. Its tired he is a TOP 10 QB.

[DB1974]

The last INT,... for the very reason you quoted because you know this, you DON'T throw the ball -- period!

Who can you get that's better?

[Purple Dawg 96]

That pic above of Gilmore on a roll out is the play the Ravens should have ran against the pats instead of throwing the season away! Joe Flacco is gonna make up for it starting this season bump top ten Joe can get FIVE rings because this team can go back to back and could 3 peat! No other team comes close!

[rockhill24]

As good as Joe Cool has been its still a puzzle why he get no respect. The Rodney Dangerfield of NFL QB. No matter what national media says about out team, our QB, our Coach, we do not care. We know we are good we will just keep proving it. Great Team

[goldenboldin]

the debate is only alive because your articles keep bringing it up... i get it though - slow season at this point.

[balfan23]

Cleveland media feels the need to dis anything that is Ravens. They know their fan base hates Baltimore and they cater to it.

[Joey Flac]

Cleveland media feels the need to dis anything that is Ravens. They know their fan base hates Baltimore and they cater to it.

 

he threw in Cam Newton and Matt Ryan... Saying Cam is better than Joe is a joke. If Joe had Ryan's receivers he would be an MVP

[The Mom Gene]

he threw in Cam Newton and Matt Ryan... Saying Cam is better than Joe is a joke. If Joe had Ryan's receivers he would be an MVP

Not only Cam and Matt, but Luck too....  Really?????  None of those guys have half the history that Joe had...

[januaryjoeshouldhave3rings]

Excuse me if i might sound crazy to some, but am i the only one to notice that Joe reminds me of Brett Favre. I watched every ravens go over the pass 10 years, and compared that mentally to Brett Favre Top 10 on NFL Network. Man i must be seeing double or something because these to look very similar in style of play. Only difference is Joe's cool laid back approach to everything.

[dirtybird66]

YOU KNOW,the RAVEN'S warned the COLT'S about the under inflated ball's before the championship,so it was an ongoing thing,and the NFL changed the rule's about illegal formation's after the season,so the PAT'S cheated their way to the superbowl and they should put an asterous on their ring!

[boldtown]

the whole elite conversation about Flacco is tiring. can we just move on.

[RavensBaltimore]

I'm speaking of one game where he went away from the smart play and took a shot and you're recapping a year! Apples & oranges, bud!

This is pretty much my point, but I was recapping the last 5 years. 5 years far outweighs one play. Remember the 2011 AFC Championship game? NE was up 3, late in the 4th qtr, and Brady "took a deep shot" to seal the win, and Jimmy Smith picked it to keep our season alive. Is Brady an undisciplined qb?

 

 

Blame Torrey for not fighting, Blame Lee Evans for cursing the End-Zone, but blame Joe for making a reckless decision? Oh No-o-o-o-o!

You can blame Joe all you want, but it makes no sense to define him by 1 play. Otherwise, everyone would be a reckless, undisciplined qb, because you can cherry pick bad decisions from everyone. There is a huge difference between calling it a reckless play and calling Joe an undisciplined qb. The former is debatable; the latter is just ridiculous.

 

 

 

Let's say that Flacco made the worst, dumbest throw in NFL history. Are you honestly saying that 1 play negates all the great things he's done and takes him out of the top 10?

Didn't you hear the Corner say that they [the Pats] talked about that play after Smith scored on it earlier and how to cover it over and under w/o tipping the coverage,.. and Joe threw right into it?

No, because that's not what happened. Smith never scored in that game, and the play that you're referring to was the 3rd qtr int, not the final one. 

 

Sami, these guys are in their final years of illustrious careers as,... //cough//... perennial winners, one who has the SB jewelry to boast it and another who does not but has a ton of wins, MVP awards and records!

Joe has neither!       Maybe someday,... but, not today!

Winning is what perennial winners do, and Flacco has won more games since he's been in the league than anyone, including Brady and Manning. He also has more playoff records than both of them combined, and he's done it with much less talent to throw to. Joe doesn't have all the accomplishments they do, but they don't have all the accomplishments Joe has, either. All of them are perennial winners. Sami was just making the same point that I was making. 1 play doesn't exclude anyone from the "perennial winner" list. Otherwise, that list would be blank.

 

Flacco has an uncanny ability to be aggressive without turning it over. It didn't work out once, but is has been a major factor in the Ravens' success. Nothing works out every time, no matter what you do.

[Militant X 1]

I'm so sick and tired of these fake football gurus and specialists tossing Matt Ryan's name out there over Flacco's. Get real!

Edited June 24, 2015 by Militant X 1

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Well the bottom line and most important stat line is the Win / Loss stat. We all know where Flacco stacks up on that stat compared to the other QB's exspecialy in the post season. A lot of the QB's mentioned as supposedly better than Flacco cant even match up in the Win / Loss stat colume with Flacco such as P.Manning, Luck, Romo, Rivers and Newton just dont measure up when it coes down to winning in the post season Wilson is a game manager at very best wih a great defense. Brady well cheating to get the win just does not count. Note to Brady you just might want to study the NFL rule book during your suspension. Wich we wont know if it is going to be the original 4 game suspension or if they reduce it after all your crying about it. My point is Flacco has missed the post season just 1 time since he came into the league and he has been very good at winning on the road in hostile enviroments. Win Loss colume is the most important stat and winning in the post season is even more important. Just ask Brady and the Patriots who had the better season when they went a perfect 16 / 0 in the regular season only to get beaten in the Super Bowl by the Giants. The Giants had the better season and have the rings to prove it too.

[huntrgathrr]

Statistics are really for sportswriters and players on losing teams to justify their worth. There is only one statistic that matters and that is wins and losses, particularly in important games.

Using this criteria, Joe Flacco is the best QB in the NFL since he came into the league.

His 10-4 playoff record is light years ahead of any other QB. Not to mention his historic passing performance in the 2012 playoffs that resulted in a well deserved MVP award.

He also has the most (or second most) overall wins in the NFL since he entered the league.

He sacrifices personal glory (stats) for the overall team good. That is a well balanced offense that is less predictable and results in better overall team results. Of course that is largely determined by Harbaugh but I've never read of Joe complaining.

Another important fact that elevates him above other QBs is his durability. He has started every game since 2008 when he first entered the league. He earns his paycheck.

There is no other QB in the NFL that I would trade for Flacco.....none. He gets the most out of his team.

[alexbayrobin]

What other people think about Joe doesn't matter to me. I think he's number one. I don't want any other quarterback.

[cobrajet]

Joe Flacco gets you to the playoffs then he becomes like Joe Montana. What more do you want? He already has a Lombardi and probably two more if Lee Evans held on to that pass and if we did not lose all our secondary last season. We know how good January Joe is here in Baltimore and that is all that counts.