[News] Late For Work 6/23: The Joe Flacco Top-10 Debate Is Alive Again

[dirtybird66]

you want my honest truth?I was very upset when we didn't go after BREES when he was out there,and still think BREES is a better QB than FLACCO, but what FLACCO has acheived,as I said a few day's ago,since 2008 he has the most win's,and when he's on,wich is alot more now aday's he's the best,and 11th is where i'd put him overall,when his consistancey get's alittle better,wich it will now that he has his targets,he will improve,I love him for the big games he's won and ask RAY LEWIS who's the best,"BIG JOE KOOL"

[stixfix69]

Here is is the huge difference between Joe and the other "elite" QB's....They care what people say about them, their feelings get hurt when called out in the press, where as Joe could care less, he just does his own thing, and that what makes him more unique than the others...

[dirtybird66]

YEAH,HE'S JOE KOOL, the RAVEN'S are a great organization but, in my dream world we would have brought BELICHEC over with the team,you know he wanted out of that craphole in CLEVELAND and he was from MARYLAND,perfect fit,or kept probably the best offensive mind's in MARCHIBRODA,yeah he was nice and his player's would of run through a brick wall for him,and then just brought in MARVIN LEWIS and add player's on defence the way we did anyway,and brought in DREW BREES instead drafting FLACCO,how many more SUPERBOWLS would we have now? just puttin it out there.

[5Flacco]

Can the national "experts' just stop it about Joe. Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Cam freaking Newton? Stop it. Joe had more playoff wins HIS ROOKIE YEAR than those 3 combined in their career. His SB and playoff run were bettered only but the greatest QB of all time (Montana) and he would have another ring if Evans holds on to the damn ball. Other than Brady, I wouldn't want anyone else as my QB.

Cuz in South Jersey

[BmoreFan15]

There isn't a quarterback playing now that is in the same lane as Joe when it comes to the playoffs. From 2008 up until now, if the receivers would have just caught the balls in those playoff games... who knows how many trophies we could've had and this debate wouldn't even be a discussion.

[jravens13]

Flacco is a top 5 QB in the playoffs and he makes the playoffs every year. What more could you want? Phillip Rivers? Cam Newton? Gross

[Space11jams]

That ESPN guy is delusional. I would not take Cam, Stanford, Wilson (right now at least), Tann, or Ryan over Flacco. Flacco is a top 10 QB so they need to give credit where it's due. That 2012 defense was below the rankings we are use to seeing and Flacco out played Luck, Brady and Manning to win the SB. Give the guy some top 10 credit! If I hear someone mention Dalton over Flacco again, their football IQ will be questioned.

[ajf3030]

Wow... Mystigo_Dragon: I appreciate that you articulated your opinion very well, but what you're saying is just simply not true. The MOST that I could POSSIBLY lean toward what you're saying, is to say 'you're right, Flacco has not won 100% of the games in his career'. Other than that... I have no idea. In regard to games we are 'supposed to win'- we have one of the best records in the league against teams under .500 in recent years. You want a QB who 'doesn't win games he's supposed to win'? Roethlisberger is absolutely great in my opinion, but the Steelers record features losses to 2 or 3 of the worst teams in the league, every single year. Who were we 'supposed to beat' last year? I'm thinking the Browns, I'm thinking the entire NFC south, and I'm thinking Houston and Jacksonville. We lost to Houston, and I have never strayed from my opinion that that's because Houston knew Kubiak's offense too well. But we DEMOLISHED the NFC south, and we beat Jacksonville and Cleveland. Who are the 10 quarterbacks who are 'better winners' than Flacco? It's actually crazy that you are claiming to judge quarterbacks by 'winning', which is largely how they should be evaluated, rather than useless statistics- yet you're still saying Flacco isn't in the top 10? Who are the quarterbacks who are better winners than Joe?

[RavensBaltimore]

But, Joe Flacco drives the Ravens down to the 34 yard line of the Patriots, then, quote takes a shot,... throws an interception into the end-zone ending the Ravens' playoff run,...  That's not what perennial winners do!

This the way the undisciplined Joe Flacco continues to show that he doesn't have the PATIENCE to play his position to the point of stealing games the CW suggests he shouldn't win, like a Phillip Rivers playing us any and every time he does!  

So Flacco throws 24 tds and 4ints in the postseason since 2010, and you pick out one of those 4 picks and say he's undisciplined? Really? No football "purist" would do that. There isn't a single coach or film study analyst who thinks Flacco is "undisciplined." He has been historically great at NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER in the postseason and winning in the postseason, which would be impossible if he wasn't disciplined. Jay Cutler isn't disciplined. Look at all the turnovers he gives away.

 

If that one play mean Flacco isn't a "perennial winner", then Brady and Manning aren't perennial winners either, because they have both thrown season ending picks, and neither of them have won as many games as Flacco since he's been in the league. Flacco has 4 consecutive postseasons with a TD/INT ratio of at least 3/1 which is more than the entire careers of Brady and Manning COMBINED. He recently snapped a record of consecutive postseason passes without an INT. But that one play, in a game where he was great overall, makes him undisciplined, and not a perennial winner? That's just laughable.

[RavensBaltimore]

When people argue that Flacco shouldn't be in the top 10, they act like the playoffs don't matter at all. They also act like the qb is the only player on offense, and the system and his receiving corps doesn't matter. Flacco's stats are usually somewhere between 8-15 in the regular season, and they are clearly #1(he's on a level all by himself) in the postseason. If you average that out, that put's him somewhere between 4-8, and when you consider the fact that he has done it without ever playing with an elite WR/TE, he's up there with anyone. I don't see how Brady and Manning are on another level when Manning has been awful in the postseason, and Brady has been mediocre in the postseason for the last decade, except when he got to play against a bunch of injury depleted defenses last year. Another thing that people ignore is physical ability, leadership, and poise in big moments. Flacco has the ability to take over and beat anyone, anywhere, even with a mediocre receiving corps. Many qbs that are ranked ahead of Flacco can't do that, nor can they make all the throws he makes on a consistent basis.

[January J]

So Flacco throws 24 tds and 4ints in the postseason since 2010, and you pick out one of those 4 picks and say he's undisciplined? Really? No football "purist" would do that. There isn't a single coach or film study analyst who thinks Flacco is "undisciplined." He has been historically great at NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER in the postseason and winning in the postseason, which would be impossible if he wasn't disciplined. Jay Cutler isn't disciplined. Look at all the turnovers he gives away.

If that one play mean Flacco isn't a "perennial winner", then Brady and Manning aren't perennial winners either, because they have both thrown season ending picks, and neither of them have won as many games as Flacco since he's been in the league. Flacco has 4 consecutive postseasons with a TD/INT ratio of at least 3/1 which is more than the entire careers of Brady and Manning COMBINED. He recently snapped a record of consecutive postseason passes without an INT. But that one play, in a game where he was great overall, makes him undisciplined, and not a perennial winner? That's just laughable.

had Torrey caught that ball and we win the game would ppl still have looked back at that play and said that joe was "undisciplined" ? Highly doubt it- they would be saying things like he's not afraid to be aggressive, and that he went for the throat. I may be in the minority - but I firmly believe that it was a GOOD throw. Torrey clearly slowed up, and took his eyes off the ball anticipating getting hit. That's why he squared up the way he did. It's fair to question the call- but I don't think it's fair to blame joe or call him undisciplined. Esp when we don't know if it was kubiak who made that call or what.

[Ravens07]

Joe's been statistically the best playoff QB of the last several years. The way he plays in January, I'd honestly rather have him over anyone.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Ravens07

[jrock6587]

I'm ending this right now! Until you win a Superbowl this conversation is moot. You can compare him to whomever you like. At the end of the day if your team is holding up the Lombardi, then you have an "ELITE" WINNING QUARTERBACK. End of conversation go suck an egg

if you disagree.

[jrock6587]

I'm willing to bet Joe Flacco wins another Superbowl before the following: Andrew Luck, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton. Now put that in your pipe and go smoke it. Remember you heard it from me first.

[dirtybird66]

what rock have you been under the last decadejrock587,he was the mvp of the superbowl,dah!atah

[respecttheRaven]

This story is old as mold. Joe has done enough, plus more to prove to me that he is an elite QB. Before the Ravens even won the 2012 SB, critics and naysayer's were saying that in order to be elite you have to win a SB......well, Joe did help win that SB, and had a historic run, and was even named MVP. Was he considered elite by the media??? NO,  they,  then came up with some other reason that a QB needed to do in order to be considered " elite"  It just keeps going around and around like a merry-go-round. All QB's make mental mistakes, all throw interceptions, receiver's make mistakes, running routes, dropping the ball etc. etc.......I watch how a a QB reacts to that afterward's, and I have to say that Joe is one of the best at handling the adversity, he doesn't cry, pout, yell at the ref's or grab his receiver's face mask and ridicule him on the sideline. He just play's it cool and comes back and play's his game. I'll take OUR QB over any other QB any day.  GO JOE!!!

[hen826957]

I saw this espn video yesterday and all I can say is unbelievable. The guy said he would put Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, even Stafford or Cam Newton over Joe now that's totally disrespectful. Who in the right mind choose these guys ahead of Flacco especially Stafford and Cam now that's dumb. Stats doesn't give you nothing you won't win any contest for the most yards in the league or something. Also and I'm starting to believe that they don't think championships matter. What's the point of playing if you want stats in your career it a waste of time. You have to get Joe credit as a top 10 Qb in this league or its disrespectful period. None of these guys did anything and Joe got the most playoffs wins combined. Another thing is that these guys have weapons and they still can't get the job done. If Flacco had these weapons during his years here he would probably have his second ring or third ring.

[The Greek]

crockett gilmore has a bright future ahead.

[ravens4life86]

So tired of ESPN Im at the point where I discredit everything they say about Flacco or the Ravens, they have such a bias Agenda. Like they do come NBA season slur.ping LEBRIC off all year because they are big money politicing invested in him. Come NFL season its back to slur.ping the large markets, NY,Boston,Chicago,Dallas,Philly,DC, and Investments of theleague Rodgers,Manning,Brady etc..

Now Flacco will never get his due because 1) hes in a Mid market in Baltimore, not a large market and though Baltimore is a historically great football city with 5 titles(3from Colts)...no matter what Flacco does ESPN narrative and most national media will not like him.

When Facts show.. Hes comparable to Brady except he doesnt cheat.1) Spygate and Deflategate aside....Bradys first miracle SB runs were made on the backs of a semi historic Pats Defense Vrabel,Bruski,Seymour,Law etc.. Yet because he plays in Large market Boston ESPN Narrative is OH MY God...Brady did it all by himself slur.p slur.p slur.p idiots clueless clueless clueless.

Then Brady goes 10 years without a SB until a top 10 Defense carries him, but because hes in boston its slur.p slur.p

Now the same shoe is on the other foot... Flacco carries a 17th ranked defense to a historic SB MVP Season, and has outplayed Brady last 3 times faced, and most wins and playoff wins and apps since career started...

Yet media Narrative is...oh its the Defense Defense,Defense... Clueless idiots. Why like I said earlier because we are in a mid market.

FACT is Ravens havent had a top 5-7 legendary Ravens Defense in years, last several years they have always bee somewhere around 12-17th... Because Pees plays that NE Bend dont break crap.

So this has been Flaccos team for a few years now and hes more then proven with his big money clutch play he is a top 5-7 QB for me.

[The Beak]

ESPNs list is all fake juice, when the playoffs start , they would be lying if Joe wasn't in their top 5 , Brady , Luck, Roethlisberger. Rodgers, JOE FLACCO, Manning Bree's, Wilson , Eli, (, Ryan ,Rivers ,Newton not even close , losers not winners )

[BallsoHard622]

Here we gooo again... I don't care we're they place flacco in the rankings because he fits the ravens just rite. Yea he looks lost at times during the regular season at times but all I care about is the playoffs. I don't care if a qb throws for 5000 yds during the regular season an gets all the awards(Andrew luck,Peyton manning, Drew Bree's). It's all about getting to the super bowl. Once we get in the playoffs flacco gives us a really good chance to get to the big game. Now that he has more weapons than before he will prove all of the doubters wrong once more.

[ravenstime]

What can I say? Joe's our guy!

[runcontrol]

Fusuymada, I cut down much of your comment to the part that I take a bit of issue with! Sorry! I needed to make a point and I wasn't at issue with you entire comment!

"We get ahead so we run, when the game is close we run..."

In my world Joe Flacco is not inside the #10 mark ,... read closely....  simply because he doesn't win the games he's supposed to!

The Fantasy Footballers, [might be you], in MHO are the people who root for 4,000 yard games from QBs.

While the Football Purists [definitely me] root for games won that should be won and games won that normally wouldn't by QBs!

The Divisional Championship is a case in point: Joe Flacco beats Tom Brady in Brady's house for the second time in a playoff setting by driving the Ravens down the field and managing the clock expertly and thrusting the ball over the goal line with a QB Sneak or hand-off to Justin Forsett/the Juice,..... This scenario guarantees Joe's a Top 10 QB this year!

But, Joe Flacco drives the Ravens down to the 34 yard line of the Patriots, then, quote takes a shot,... throws an interception into the end-zone ending the Ravens' playoff run,...  That's not what perennial winners do!

This the way the undisciplined Joe Flacco continues to show that he doesn't have the PATIENCE to play his position to the point of stealing games the CW suggests he shouldn't win, like a Phillip Rivers playing us any and every time he does!  

 

You have a valid point but who actually meets your criteria:

 

First and foremost, if you make it to the playoffs, somewhere along the way your qb won a game you were supposed to lose and won some games that you were supposed to win. So I don't know what that is even brought up. Especially since the Ravens were given no chance to go into Pittsburgh and beat the Steelers yet offensively and defensively the killed them. 

 

I don't know if you are basing your list off of last season or a qbs career but countless times we have seen Flacco put his team in position to win games.  The win in Denver is probably the most famous simply because no one thought he had the time to forge a comeback but he did it.  But there were diffidently others. The Housh TD in the last minute of the Pittsburgh game sticks out in my mind.  And some of the other top qbs are known to choke on an annual basis. Romo is probably the most famous for choking during the regular season.  But guys like Ryan and Manning seem to do it ever year in the playoffs.  

But if we are going off of last season alone there are a lot of examples of other qbs falling apart when the pressure was on.  Manning completely fell apart at the end of the season.  Luck looked terrible against the Patriots, and Rodgers had the Seahawks beat, and failed to hold that lead.  And if we are going to call out Flacco for his questionable throw you have to call out Wilson for his pass right to that corner.  At least if Smith had a chance of catching that ball.  There was no way Seattle was going to win with that pass.  

[Peej]

How many years has he even led his team to the playoffs?

Heck, How many playoff games has Romo even won?

ESPN is all about empty hype!

[Peej]

Saying that Romo is better than Flacco in the post season is just plain stupidity. Sorry but it is. Romo has only been to the post season 1 time right? Cleveland guy making a statement about any Qb is hilarious. This is just people talking to appear that they know something.

Go get em' Joe

 

Romo has been in the playoffs only four years - 6 games (3 at home and 3 on the road); in those 4 years: 2 wins and 4 losses!

 

Flacco has been in the playoffs for six years - 15 games (1 at home and 14 on the road); in those games: 10 wins 5 losses.

[FloridalovesRavens]

Here we go again. This is really getting stale. Flacco is a winning gutsy QB who also happens to be a MVP SB winner. Case closed. Haters need to pick on Johnny football some more and leave our guy alone.

[evass#ravensnation]

1.Rodgers

2.Brady

3.Luck

4.Brees

5.Manning

6.Flacco

7.Romo

8.Rivers

9.Ryan

10.Wilson

[Peej]

You wrote...

But, Joe Flacco drives the Ravens down to the 34 yard line of the Patriots, then, quote takes a shot,... throws an interception into the end-zone ending the Ravens' playoff run,...  That's not what perennial winners do!

...

 

 

Take a look at BOTH interceptions and tell me how hard Torrey Smith fought for the ball!

[Hardhitters]

I use to be a tough Flacco critic because I wanted him to out shine Brady and Manning, be more aware and make less mistakes. He has matured nicely and keep getting better, I'm happy he's our QB and is perfect for this team. Before Ray retired things felt like now or never and we wanted an Aaron Rodgers but now I see a very long tendered QB in our possession.

[Mystigo_Dragon]

Take a look at BOTH interceptions and tell me how hard Torrey Smith fought for the ball!

 

The last INT,... for the very reason you quoted because you know this, you DON'T throw the ball -- period!