Upshaw's future

[ravensfan520]

With Sizzle and Doom getting older by the minute... does anybody besides me believe that we should try to keep Upshaw. Upshaw has the ability to play multiple positions and is still young. He doesn't have the mileage due to our formula of rotating him and Doom. He has never been asked to rush the passer but I believe that he can do it and he is known for doing the dirty work.

So in conclusion we need to find a way to keep Upshaw, our Guards, and sign Tucker to an extension sooner rather than later.

[harfordravenfan]

IMO, depends on what upshaw expects/wants versus the "reasonable offer" the ravens are likely to offer him. I don't think we keep both guards unfortunately

[Sami84]

I'll be frank and say I don't see him being THAT much better than he is..hes okay..a solid pro..nothing more nothing less and thats how he's going to be paid..i see him below the Mcphee line thats for sure.

[ravensfan520]

I'll be frank and say I don't see him being THAT much better than he is..hes okay..a solid pro..nothing more nothing less and thats how he's going to be paid..i see him below the Mcphee line thats for sure.

What I like about Upshaw over McPhee is the ability to play all across the line and the OLB position. He doesn't get injured and will lay the hammer down. McPhee was special but when he switched to OLB he didn't fair as well. Upshaw was given very little chances in rushing situations. I hope he shows up this year and we keep him. I truely believe he can be an every down OLB if given the opportunity. He could be the guy that carries the torch after Suggs and/or Doom finish.

Edited June 17, 2015 by ravensfan520

[usmccharles]

We will see what he can really do this year. His price will be from the result of this year but I see him getting paid somewhere else, just like always, we are a talent farm for the rest of the league

[VeiledPsychosis]

Doubt the FO will let him go with Suggs and Doom both nearing retirement. He's been in development for years and was a relatively high pick. Ozzie will get it done

[FlackAttack]

Doubt the FO will let him go with Suggs and Doom both nearing retirement. He's been in development for years and was a relatively high pick. Ozzie will get it done

"developed for years".. thats the problem its been 4 years already and he really hasnt shown much. this is the nfl. get rid of 'em.

[Ravensfan23]

"developed for years".. thats the problem its been 4 years already and he really hasnt shown much. this is the nfl. get rid of 'em.

 

Actually it's only been 3 years, this will be his 4th and he's done exactly what the team has asked of him imo. I don't think he was drafted to be a pass rush specialist or anything of the sorts. He was drafted to take that role left void by Jarrett Johnson. That hard noise, do the dirty work type OLB. Much like double J most, if not all of his sacks will come from effort and clean up plays, much like the Big Ben sack that was called a penalty. I think he's an overall better player then JJ, but that type of role is what has been carved out for him. If he can get you 50-60 tackles and 5 sacks, that's good season for him. I don't see another team, valuing him as much as the Ravens do. Maybe a former Ravens DC but I see him staying. 

 

Also it's easy to say get rid of him because he has done nothing. Well i'd venture to say the most important thing he's done over the last couple years is do that dirty work on earlier downs so that Doom doesn't have to. We look at Doom get all the sacks and the praise, but if he had to bang up against OTs and TE all game long against the run, he probably wouldn't be nearly as fresh later in games like he is. Courtney Upshaw has a lot to do with the defense not allowing 100 yard rushers. 

 

Everybody can't be pro bowl and all pro players. You need guys like Upshaw who don't command a lot of money but will be a fixture on your defense for years, because he does the dirty work that allows other guys to get the stats. It'll suck for him because he won't get a chance to cash in as much as those other guys, but much like JJ he'll get a nice contract else where on his 2nd deal. I see him signing a deal with the Ravens in the range of 4yrs 17M 

[arnie_uk]

Actually it's only been 3 years, this will be his 4th and he's done exactly what the team has asked of him imo. I don't think he was drafted to be a pass rush specialist or anything of the sorts. He was drafted to take that role left void by Jarrett Johnson. That hard noise, do the dirty work type OLB. Much like double J most, if not all of his sacks will come from effort and clean up plays, much like the Big Ben sack that was called a penalty. I think he's an overall better player then JJ, but that type of role is what has been carved out for him. If he can get you 50-60 tackles and 5 sacks, that's good season for him. I don't see another team, valuing him as much as the Ravens do. Maybe a former Ravens DC but I see him staying.

Also it's easy to say get rid of him because he has done nothing. Well i'd venture to say the most important thing he's done over the last couple years is do that dirty work on earlier downs so that Doom doesn't have to. We look at Doom get all the sacks and the praise, but if he had to bang up against OTs and TE all game long against the run, he probably wouldn't be nearly as fresh later in games like he is. Courtney Upshaw has a lot to do with the defense not allowing 100 yard rushers.

Everybody can't be pro bowl and all pro players. You need guys like Upshaw who don't command a lot of money but will be a fixture on your defense for years, because he does the dirty work that allows other guys to get the stats. It'll suck for him because he won't get a chance to cash in as much as those other guys, but much like JJ he'll get a nice contract else where on his 2nd deal. I see him signing a deal with the Ravens in the range of 4yrs 17M

you shouldn't be drafting a JJ replacement in the second round. Imo they expected him to be a lot better at rushing the passer than he his.

[usmccharles]

Am I the only one who looks at Upshaw and doesn't seem impressed by his build. I don't know how to word it, I just look at him and feel like he is not built well or seems out of shape... Don't know if that makes sense

[Purple Punishment]

"developed for years".. thats the problem its been 4 years already and he really hasnt shown much. this is the nfl. get rid of 'em.

Taking about Jah Reid here right??

[Sami84]

Actually it's only been 3 years, this will be his 4th and he's done exactly what the team has asked of him imo. I don't think he was drafted to be a pass rush specialist or anything of the sorts. He was drafted to take that role left void by Jarrett Johnson. That hard noise, do the dirty work type OLB. Much like double J most, if not all of his sacks will come from effort and clean up plays, much like the Big Ben sack that was called a penalty. I think he's an overall better player then JJ, but that type of role is what has been carved out for him. If he can get you 50-60 tackles and 5 sacks, that's good season for him. I don't see another team, valuing him as much as the Ravens do. Maybe a former Ravens DC but I see him staying. 

 

Also it's easy to say get rid of him because he has done nothing. Well i'd venture to say the most important thing he's done over the last couple years is do that dirty work on earlier downs so that Doom doesn't have to. We look at Doom get all the sacks and the praise, but if he had to bang up against OTs and TE all game long against the run, he probably wouldn't be nearly as fresh later in games like he is. Courtney Upshaw has a lot to do with the defense not allowing 100 yard rushers. 

 

Everybody can't be pro bowl and all pro players. You need guys like Upshaw who don't command a lot of money but will be a fixture on your defense for years, because he does the dirty work that allows other guys to get the stats. It'll suck for him because he won't get a chance to cash in as much as those other guys, but much like JJ he'll get a nice contract else where on his 2nd deal. I see him signing a deal with the Ravens in the range of 4yrs 17M 

 

I stopped reading when you said '' I think he's a better player than JJ''

 

He's not. JJ was a hell of a football player. High football IQ. 

[Tru11]

dude is 1 of the best edge setters in the NFL.

he can play every lb position.

he can play dline in sub packages.

he can drop in coverage better then most olb

he can make the calls to line up the defense properly.

 

he did alot of the dirty work to made guys like kruger , doom and mcphee get the sacks and stay fresh.

neither of them have shown to be 3 down olb who can stop the run or drop in coverage.

 

he doesent get the gaudy stats or highlight plays but he is a key piece to the defense.

 

i sure hope we can keep him.

[FastEddie]

I think we keep him without a doubt...

 

The idea of not asking Upshaw to rush is intriquing, but the times that he has he's been effective...just ask Rothlisberger

[Static]

RunStoppers don't make pass rusher money

[FlackAttack]

jarret johnson >>>>>>>>>> courtney upshaw

[FlackAttack]

Am I the only one who looks at Upshaw and doesn't seem impressed by his build. I don't know how to word it, I just look at him and feel like he is not built well or seems out of shape... Don't know if that makes sense

 

this. he looks slow, overweight, and sloppy. his whole dimenear just seems like he doesnt care, almost like he doesnt fit in. you rarely ever hear his name. even JJ you'd hear his name all the time, see him light people up, etc.

 

the only memorable play he had his whole career was that forced fumble in the super bowl. thats literally the only highlight of his career.

 

upshaw doesnt play like a raven. just doesnt fit in.

[GrimCoconut]

Here's my thoughts on Upshaw:

I think he's far better than I95 in coverage. I've always felt that's been an underrated aspect of his game.

I think they're equal in terms of their ability to set the edge. I also think Upshaw is a smart player with good football IQ. They're also very similar with pass rush. JJ wasn't a prolific pass rusher either, but then again he also wasn't a high second round pick. Upshaw is a disappointment as a pass rusher due to where he was drafted when compared to how other players performed in that draft after we took him.

I think JJ is better with his build and played a little faster than Upshaw at rushing the passer. JJ was more of a leader than Upshaw has been at this point in his career from information I've read. Maybe he's a quiet leader or I just haven't read enough. I admit either of these are possible.

I think in their prime I'd honestly take JJ over Upshaw but I don't see a huge disparity between them.

Edited June 18, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[GrimCoconut]

I think we keep him without a doubt...

The idea of not asking Upshaw to rush is intriquing, but the times that he has he's been effective...just ask Rothlisberger

Watch that again. Everyone points to that play as an indication that he can rush the passer. Maybe he can, but that's not the play to make the point. Upshaw was sitting back in coverage and he came up to deliver the hit on Ben when things broke down in the pocket.

Don't get me wrong...It's hard to bring down Ben and that certainly speaks to his strength. What it did tell me is either Upshaw left his assignment when he saw the breakdown, which is good on his part, or Dean Pees schemed the sack. I'm not going to guess which is true.

Edited June 18, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Ravensfan23]

you shouldn't be drafting a JJ replacement in the second round. Imo they expected him to be a lot better at rushing the passer than he his.

 

how long have you been a Ravens fans and how long have you been following the Ravens Way of doing things when it comes to building a contending team? Ozzie doesn't look at the draft like most of us or most people around the league. Once you are drafted he can careless what round you were drafted in, what do you bring to the team. You don't just dump a guy who's an asset to your team, just because he was drafted in the 2nd round and hasn't gotten to a pro bowl or whatever people want. 

 

If Ozzie thought the way you are suggesting then there would have been no reason to add Doom as a pass rusher, he would have just looked at Upshaw and said, you're our 2nd round pick get it done. That's just not how the Ravens do things. In fact one of the biggest reasons Ozzie trades out of the first round so much is to get max value on guys. At the end of the day, imo, it's not about what round they were drafted in and what their stats are, it's more about how much value do they bring to the team. If the Ravens see Upshaw as an important cog to helping their run defense, and doing other work as a pass rusher pushing the pocket, why should it matter what round he's selected in?

[Ravensfan23]

this. he looks slow, overweight, and sloppy. his whole dimenear just seems like he doesnt care, almost like he doesnt fit in. you rarely ever hear his name. even JJ you'd hear his name all the time, see him light people up, etc.

 

the only memorable play he had his whole career was that forced fumble in the super bowl. thats literally the only highlight of his career.

 

upshaw doesnt play like a raven. just doesnt fit in.

 

Maybe you missed the goal-line hit vs the Steelers that put Bell out of a regular season game, maybe you missed the lone sack he had in the Playoffs where he slammed Ben to the ground, made him woozy which led to an INT on Ben's next throw. You can say JJ got his named called, but you would be talking about after year 3. JJ didn't do much, in terms of fanfare until his 4th season with the Ravens. He went unnoticed for much of his first 3-4 years, much like Upshaw. In fact if i remember correctly there was a large group of fans who wanted to replace JJ because he wasn't much of a pass rusher. 

 

There is a reason that Courtney Upshaw started 14 games and both playoff games last season and it wasn't just because he was a 2nd round pick. 

[Ravensfan23]

I stopped reading when you said '' I think he's a better player than JJ''

 

He's not. JJ was a hell of a football player. High football IQ. 

 

Then why reply?

[Ravensfan23]

jarret johnson >>>>>>>>>> courtney upshaw

 

It really doesn't matter, it's about what Upshaw bring to this team. I highly doubt he would continue to start if he didn't bring some sort of value to this team. Now it becomes a question of how much is a value worth and is it at a reasonable price for Ozzie and Pat. Jarrett Johnson being better then Courtney Upshaw is about as relevant as comparing CMac to Jimmy right now. 

[JoeyFlex5]

they did draft upshaw to rush the passer, he was an excellent bull rusher in college but his lack of athleticism and burst has reared its ugly head at the NFL level for upshaw, he is still a very good OLB for what is asked of him. i think ZD smith is going to be sizzles replacement, i was very high on him during the draft, i was ecstatic when we got him, and i think he is as complete of a OLB as youll find, underrated player for sure, and i would like to see upshaw play out another contract across the formation from smith,  they are both tough and violent OLB's, one is just not athletically inclined enough to succeed in getting to the qb. 

 

personally i think the answer to our future at edge rushers will be in next years draft.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

"developed for years".. thats the problem its been 4 years already and he really hasnt shown much. this is the nfl. get rid of 'em.

 

What do you mean he hasn't shown much? 

 

He's been a starter with Elvis Dumervil on the roster.... that's saying something. His contributions may not show up in the box score or stat sheet - and if he hasnt shown you anything i get the feeling that those are the only places you're looking.

 

That's not to say he's been incredible or anything, but hes been exactly what we've asked him to be. He's a bear who almost always wins at the point of attack, is one of the best edge-setters in the league, has called out the defensive alignments at times, etc... Him doing the dirty work is what allows a lot of the other guys to shine.

 

Suggs, Doom, Mosley, Smith, Ngata, McPhee, etc... they all benefit from having a guy like Upshaw. Mosleys huge tackle numbers last year are supported by Upshaw because he doesnt allow plays to bounce outside so they end up right in the mits of Mosley. 

 

He is the new JJ, who was a huge part of our defense for years... and if you saw his retirement speech then you saw the importance JJ had to this team and the organization during his time here. You may not recognize what Upshaw's importance is, but I can guarantee you that the coaching staff, the FO, and his teammates all recognize it.

 

I think he stays a Raven bc even though he is very good at what he does, that skillset is undervalued in todays NFL. That's good news for us because we'll likely get to lock down a premier, edge-setting, run stuffing mauler for a pretty reasonable price. 

 

My only worry is that he actually does break out in the pass rushing department with the extra opportunities he's likely to receive this year. I think he can do it, it's just that he hasnt been given the chance because.... well why would you keep Dumervil off the field in pass rushing situations? Even if Upshaw has shown he can be a really good pass rusher, Dumervil is top 3 in the league. 

[Dr. Kelley]

you shouldn't be drafting a JJ replacement in the second round. Imo they expected him to be a lot better at rushing the passer than he his.

We also weren't expecting to end up with dumervil, either, so upshaw isn't even asked to pass rush for the most part

[Tru11]

people seem to forget upshaw was the guy aligning the defense after ray lewis went out in our SB season and he kept that job even when ray came back.

 

pretty good for a rookie TBH.

 

its because we got daryl smith the team decided to let him do the alignment since its better for the ILB to do it.

 

i dont think people should question his football IQ.

 

you rarely hear about him missing an assignment or blowing coverage or making any other mistake.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Upshaw is excellent at what he does--coverage, edge setting and run stopping.

He lacks both the burst and moves to be much of a pass rusher. So, he doesn't get much attention or any hype really.

He should be affordable, which if true is good for us.

I'd like to keep him, as he has a valuable, if under-appreciated skill set.

[Willbacker]

Have to see what he does this season. He should have his opportunities to rush the passers more often this year. Really doesn't glorify the stat sheet but he plays mostly run downs. Will price himself out if he's effective at getting to the QB unless Suggs or Doom retires.

[TDubbs]

I love Upshaw, he's one of my favourites and I believe Ozzie feels the same way. He's a guy that brings his lunch pale and hard hat and just puts in work.

 

Sure, he'll never be that 10+ sack guy. But he's extremely durable, gives a consistent effort and does the grunt work on this defense, there is value in that.